Why leave or "bug out" ???

[2008f450]

Ok I didnt see a thread that looked like what I am thinking so I started one. There are a lot of us here on this forum that do think alike. That said I see a lot of posts about people bugging out if the SHTF scenario happens. Why? I thought about packing up my wife and kids and going to a spot and holding up. Problem is then we are on our own. My question is why not join together? Lets say member "A" lives up north here near me and has say 5 acres of land. Why not get to know a few other members here and IF the SHTF scenario happens why not have members "B" "C" "D" fall back to his place? For me I would bring my trailer as housing. If you have multiple people in one place you have advantages. More people to defend against what ever mob or looters are out there. If its a really long term problem you could have people that maybe could farm while some hunt or go get water. I have been thinking and planning for as many possibilities as I can think of. But the thought of sticking together as a group seems to make a lot more sence to me. I was thinking this could happen all over the state. Maybe a group south of Denver. maybe one on the western slope. We all have something to bring to the table. Could be the land itself. Maybe someone is good with keeping vehicles running. And along that thought. What would you be bugging out in? As far as vehicles. maybe thats another thread but I have been thinking about that as well. Im curious to see what you all think.

[DFBrews]

Ok I didnt see a thread that looked like what I am thinking so I started one. There are a lot of us here on this forum that do think alike. That said I see a lot of posts about people bugging out if the SHTF scenario happens. Why? I thought about packing up my wife and kids and going to a spot and holding up. Problem is then we are on our own. My question is why not join together? Lets say member "A" lives up north here near me and has say 5 acres of land. Why not get to know a few other members here and IF the SHTF scenario happens why not have members "B" "C" "D" fall back to his place? For me I would bring my trailer as housing. If you have multiple people in one place you have advantages. More people to defend against what ever mob or looters are out there. If its a really long term problem you could have people that maybe could farm while some hunt or go get water. I have been thinking and planning for as many possibilities as I can think of. But the thought of sticking together as a group seems to make a lot more sence to me. I was thinking this could happen all over the state. Maybe a group south of Denver. maybe one on the western slope. We all have something to bring to the table. Could be the land itself. Maybe someone is good with keeping vehicles running. And along that thought. What would you be bugging out in? As far as vehicles. maybe thats another thread but I have been thinking about that as well. Im curious to see what you all think.

I like the idea as my bug out location is 4 hrs south and the only way to get there is 285 or I 25 both major roads.

Things would have to be well planned ahead. who has land, who is bringing trailers, are you willing to share your preps with other people. who will be in charge of each "village" what if someone is all gung-ho about it shows up and just moochs off other people? how is this person dealt with to avoid retaliation. Also alot of this would need to be planned FTF, to ensure OPSEC is not comprimised.

Guess the point of this ramble is Trust would be paramount!

And seeing as how i am fairly new here still i wouldn't imagine someone being super inviting to some guy I know on the interwebs. I hope to meet alot more of you guys and maybe make some good friends. I know that only one person on this forum, the guy that referred me, knows anything about what i have prepped

[Irving]

1) If your place gets burned down, you won't have much choice.

2) Transporting a trailer to another person's property is still technically bugging out right?

Personally, I'd try to stay put as long as possible, only leaving when it was safer to be on the move than just sitting at my place.

[2008f450]

I like the idea as my bug out location is 4 hrs south and the only way to get there is 285 or I 25 both major roads.

Things would have to be well planned ahead. who has land, who is bringing trailers, are you willing to share your preps with other people. who will be in charge of each "village" what if someone is all gung-ho about it shows up and just moochs off other people? how is this person dealt with to avoid retaliation. Also alot of this would need to be planned FTF, to ensure OPSEC is not comprimised.

Guess the point of this ramble is Trust would be paramount!

And seeing as how i am fairly new here still i wouldn't imagine someone being super inviting to some guy I know on the interwebs. I hope to meet alot more of you guys and maybe make some good friends. I know that only one person on this forum, the guy that referred me, knows anything about what i have prepped


I agree trust would be extremely important. It is something that would take time to put together and plan for. Im pretty new here too and have only met a few people.



Irving you are right if you place burns down you need to go. Again Having someplace to fall back to with people you know would be better than trying to stand your ground on your own. And if its close to your home already you would be closer to your supplies. But going with your thought lets say the SHTF and you werent home. You come home and your house is burned down with all your supplies and guns. Would you rather be moving on your own with only a go bag or have a place that you can go to that would be safer?

[Irving]

Well sure you'd rather have a place to go. We all would. But how many people do you know that own even 1/2 an acre of land? Maybe a few up in Loveland, but down here in the metro area? Almost zero people do.

Don't think that I'm arguing your point, because I'm not. I totally agree. However, I think the whole point of a BoB is to have something that you keep with you, so in the event that you are either stranded some where, or are left with nothing, then at least you have something to try and get by with until someone takes you in.

I've got a kid and no tent. Realistically, without a vehicle, we're not going anywhere. I've got a place to go to, but unless someone wants to lend me 15 head of cattle, several pigs, goats, chickens, a few acres worth of crops, and about 100 years worth of ranching experience and know how, it's not really going to help too much. I'd have to quit my job and go work on a ranch for a year or something in order to put my "resource" to any use. So, like you said, we'd be staying put for as long as possible. Just try to survive the first few waves of mass deaths.

[2008f450]

Its something that would have to be thought out and planned for sure. Everyone that showed up would have to have something to contribute. Someone would have to have some farming knowledge. Someone could hunt. Its not a quick on the fly thing for sure. But thats also why I asked what people would be using as transportation. If someone only has a 1984 Dodge aries k with 400K on it for miles they arent going to be traveling too far or off any roads.No matter how good their BoB is. As far as land your right down in your area there isnt a whole lot to choose from. Up here Im fortunate to know a few people with land from 2 acres to 7 acres. But they arent gun people and wouldnt be very useful in defending their own home much less me and mine.

[KevDen2005]

Okay, let's see if this works this time...

I first want to say that I don't have all the answers, I don't even know if my way is actually right, but here are some thoughts that I hope will help.

I plan on staying in my house for as long as possible. It is already a built shelter. It has the capabilitiy of housing many people in the event we want to be uncomfortable and are willing to accept that. I would assume that utilies would eventually get shut off so a plan of how to get additional water and where everyone goes to the bathroom should be figured out quite quickly.

I keep a large stock of canned and other long-term foods as well as a stock of water on hand. I also try to stock up on as much extra ammunition, medical supplies, tools, things to make my house into as much of a fortress as possible, and other things that seem like it would be necessary.

I also maintain several types of bug out style bags. First there is the backpack that carry backpacking that stays packed all the time. I often refer to this as a rescue pack. I have a 72 hour bag that I keep packed with a few sets of clothes, towels, soap, a few survival items that I would take with me for a fast emergency such as a fire, I can grab it on the way out. (Obviously this does not work if my house burns down when I am not home). I also keep my truck survival kits packed and check them regularly. I don't think I need to get into what is exactly packed since that is anther thread and of course would be different from everyone else's needs.

I would also suggest that having a few gallons of gas (rotated regulary-once every six months) would be a good idea. I rotate out 10 gallons of gas...some may want more others less. I can get to several planned destinations on 10 gallons and I also try to keep a minimum of 1/4 tank of fuel in my truck.

I also have a Bug Out Point Alpha and a Bug Out Point Bravo in the event I have to leave. I have maps and have researched the resources of each location as they are different. I of course have been to both and go regularly. I also have them in complete opposite directions in the event I can't go one of the directions.

I think that everyone on here is probably a Type A personality so figuring out leadership and trust issues needs to be done quickly if people plan on getting together. Face to face meeting, training, and hanging out is probably a good idea. I personally plan on my brothers and their families to join me as well as a few close friends. I know them, trust them, know what equipment they have, and know their capabilities.

I am certainly not opposed to meeting people on here. I have noticed there is a wide range of training and capability on here as well as a huge willingness to help one another. The more people banding together the better.

I also think it is extremely important for everyone to prepare as much as possible without making it the only thing they do in life. Preparations should always be made and improvements always done. It should not be the only thing we worry about since we all have lives and jobs and school and families to worry about too...which reminded me. In my packs I take into account at least one familiy member (my wife to be) as well as the possibility of others being there that I care about that are unprepared. At the same time I think there needs to be preparations and planning is paramount. The fact that everyone on here is thinking about this and making a plan is the biggest first step in my opinion.

I am by no means the answer to anything, these are my thoughts. I certainly don't practice the stuff I know enough and don't have many skills that I wish I had. I have gotten many ideas from this site and hope to pass a few on to others. I am always open to discussion and others' thoughts.

[Colorado Osprey]

But how many people do you know that own even 1/2 an acre of land?

Thats funny... my garden is bigger than that.
I never have understood people that live in an urban location.

I know of a few people who plan to "Bug Out" to rural areas.... some to private property not owned by them. I think they would be in for a rude arrival by the land owners and their neighbors.
Rural people commonly rely on each other and trust each other as well as come to each others aide.

I also believe that people who plan to bug out to the national forest are gonna end up with a lot of neighbors and no law; many conflicts with "prepared" armed people.
Picture you favorite camp area on July 4th weekend... but with guns instead of illegal fireworks.

[Irving]

I'm positive that if I ever had to go to our private property, someone would already be trying to squat there. I wouldn't even rule out the neighbors either.

[Wulf202]

all excelent points guys. if you want to read up on these issues buy the book "lights out" its far from the ideal fantasy rawles book puts on.

the scope of a retreat is monstrious and this is just the begining

[StagLefty]

I agree-great points in this thread. I am a prepper and believe that the last thing I'll be doing is running into the hills since I have everything right here.
2 books I recommend are "Lights Out" and One Second After". They have been discussed here and provide some good insight into what this thread is about.
The "trust" reference is huge in a SHTF scenario.
All that said I hope we never have to actually get into these plans but being prepared should be a way of life nowadays just for our well being and peace of mind. [Beer]

[hollohas]

I live in the metro area but plan to meet the rest of my family in the rural area they live in. I live on the southwest side, so after a very short trip out of town I have mapped and driven the forest service roads to get to where I need to go so I can avoid the major hwys. I just don't trust anyone in our suburban neighborhood and supplies would be gone in an instant...after much thought, if I think the situation is shaping up to be one that lasts more than a couple weeks, we have to go. Of course I would have to make that call for my family in the first couples days at most.

If everyone could get there as planned, then we would have a nice sized group of people that would be useful in many ways.

Everyone should read One Second After (http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-Forstchen/dp/0765317583/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297358382&sr=8-1) by William Forstchen. Its a fictional book about an extreme SHTF situation after multiple worldwide EMP strikes. In this case they are in a rural setting and choose to bug-in.

That said, anyone read Bug Out (http://www.amazon.com/Bug-Out-Complete-Escaping-Catastrophic/dp/156975781X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1297358382&sr=8-3) or Patriots (http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-Surviving-James-Wesley-Rawles/dp/156975599X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297358382&sr=8-2). I haven't but both look pretty interesting

[hollohas]

Stag beat me to suggesting One Second After...

[Wulf202]

not even considering the possibility of a bug out is like saying "this is where i'll die" and puting all your eggs in one basket. which may be fine for someone else but not me.

i dont consider a bug out a primary plan but i have plans should the need arise. anything from staying with a friend to moving 3 states back home.

there are many things that could force me to leave and i try to plan for as much as is forseeable.

[Byte Stryke]

In any SHTF Scenario, the FIRST thing you should be doing is:


Pack and get out
Go to the Store for supplies
Assess the situation
Call Family
If you didn't say #3 I Don't want your knee-jerk self around me.

Unless its a wall of water and we have 3 hours... I am sticking put and letting everyone else be victims 1-3,000,000

I have enough provisions to hole-up for a bit.

I will agree that trust is imperative.
I wouldn't even trust family members at this point. (ie Cousins, Uncles, Aunts)
Everyone will be looking for the easiest and most secure situation requiring the least amount of effort possible. (think refugee camp) If someone thinks you will provide that for them they will latch in deep, suck you dry and bail at the first sign of duress.

Now that Being said, going back to assessment. Unless you have an Older home (pre 1970s) I would not expect you home to be able to withstand much physical stress (400K Zombies) your "shelter" should be considered temporary and improvable. Always look to upgrade with minimal risk.

But to just say "Man if anything happens I am heading for the hills!" is poorly planned.
Simply because 2,999,999 other people had the exact same thought.


Just a few of my thoughts.
your opinions may vary.

[2008f450]

The point of this thread was to exolore that option that I rarely if ever see. My own planning looks a little more like this.

1. Asses the nature and magnitude of event.
2. If I can stay put and keep my kids/me safe I stay.
3. If I can join up with a known group of like minded people go.
4. Have trailer (well stocked at all times) will move to higher ground.
5. If all i can take is go bags and a couple guns God help me Im roughing it. Put it in 4 wheel drive and get to really high ground.
6. If all else fails and its that bad lead trumps gold. I do what I have to do to keep mine safe.

I look at as many different scenarios as possible. My wife will tell you my mind is racing all the time with what ifs. What if I do get that great job and we can put away for the kids college. What if I do have to draw my gun in this place or that place. What if God forbid I do have to protect my family from "friends" when the SHTF. I just like looking at it all and having an idea of what to do. keeps me from becoming a mindless drooling leming.That is why we have go bags in all vehicles. Trailer is always stocked. I have food and supplies for 4of us for 9 months comfy and a year if we thin it a bit. I have rifles to hunt with to suppliment our stored food and to trade with because someone will be hungry and have something i need. But I try to look at as much as I can. Not just go bags and guns. What will I be using to get there. A honda civic or a 4x4 diesel that can run on bio fuel or transmission fluid if need be. Some call it paranoid. I call it being as prepared as possible. I wear a seat belt in my car just in case I am in an accident. I carry a firearm just in case someone tries to harm me and mine. I prep for SHTF just in case I have to protect mine from the liberal idiots that thought the government will be there to protect them when it gets ugly.

I have lots of questions and few answers when it comes to this stuff. But I try to stay a few steps ahead of the masses that will be crying for mama If it ever really happens. That said I pray we all get to play with our toys until we pass on from old age. May we never have to use them for any of these scenarios. But if we do may we all shoot straighter and be far me prepared than the rest.

[jerrymrc]

The point of this thread was to exolore that option that I rarely if ever see. My own planning looks a little more like this.

1. Asses the nature and magnitude of event.
2. If I can stay put and keep my kids/me safe I stay.
3. If I can join up with a known group of like minded people go.
4. Have trailer (well stocked at all times) will move to higher ground.
5. If all i can take is go bags and a couple guns God help me Im roughing it. Put it in 4 wheel drive and get to really high ground.
6. If all else fails and its that bad lead trumps gold. I do what I have to do to keep mine safe.

I look at as many different scenarios as possible. My wife will tell you my mind is racing all the time with what ifs. What if I do get that great job and we can put away for the kids college. What if I do have to draw my gun in this place or that place. What if God forbid I do have to protect my family from "friends" when the SHTF. I just like looking at it all and having an idea of what to do. keeps me from becoming a mindless drooling leming.That is why we have go bags in all vehicles. Trailer is always stocked. I have food and supplies for 4of us for 9 months comfy and a year if we thin it a bit. I have rifles to hunt with to suppliment our stored food and to trade with because someone will be hungry and have something i need. But I try to look at as much as I can. Not just go bags and guns. What will I be using to get there. A honda civic or a 4x4 diesel that can run on bio fuel or transmission fluid if need be. Some call it paranoid. I call it being as prepared as possible. I wear a seat belt in my car just in case I am in an accident. I carry a firearm just in case someone tries to harm me and mine. I prep for SHTF just in case I have to protect mine from the liberal idiots that thought the government will be there to protect them when it gets ugly.

I have lots of questions and few answers when it comes to this stuff. But I try to stay a few steps ahead of the masses that will be crying for mama If it ever really happens. That said I pray we all get to play with our toys until we pass on from old age. May we never have to use them for any of these scenarios. But if we do may we all shoot straighter and be far me prepared than the rest.


Thoughts (and this has been brought up just not easy to find)

Any thought of leaving ones home requires much thought and preparation unless one has the site stocked and ready to go.

Once you have you home set up with supplies and everything else to last a year then you can turn to thinking about leaving.

Start simple and work up. Having a good and diversified pantry is a start. you also need ways to prepare these things. Water, Food, heat, light, communications and the list goes on.

Take one step at a time. Want to have some fun? throw your main circuit breaker some day and see how long it takes before the family goes nuts. Like I said one step at a time. One more thing. Colorado is a different ball game than other locations. That is one of the main reasons this forum is here. What works in Texas (and the priority's) change when you get here.

You start at home and work it up from there. :)

[2008f450]

Thoughts (and this has been brought up just not easy to find)

Any thought of leaving ones home requires much thought and preparation unless one has the site stocked and ready to go.

Once you have you home set up with supplies and everything else to last a year then you can turn to thinking about leaving.

Start simple and work up. Having a good and diversified pantry is a start. you also need ways to prepare these things. Water, Food, heat, light, communications and the list goes on.

Take one step at a time. Want to have some fun? throw your main circuit breaker some day and see how long it takes before the family goes nuts. Like I said one step at a time. One more thing. Colorado is a different ball game than other locations. That is one of the main reasons this forum is here. What works in Texas (and the priority's) change when you get here.

You start at home and work it up from there. :)


Pretty much have them covered. Number 3 on my plans list is the only one not set up yet. In CA that one was easy. I had the land and family would fall back to my place with their trailers and help protect it. Here I dont have family so its something to explore. And we do test ourselves from time to time. We have gone with "lights and water out" scenarios for 2-5 days to see how we cope. I take my pack and go into the hills for 48 hours to see how well the things in my pack and my skills work. Alternate ways of travel have been mapped out and driven with trailer to see how it would go. Its an ongoing thing for me. The one thing I see from time to time I question is when I see people say "i will go to walmart and stock up when it gets bad". To me its too late at that point. And walmart is last place I want to be. IF i had to go stock up anywhere when It happens Im going to the pharmacy and stock up on meds and such.

[thecatsfan]

I live in the metro area but plan to meet the rest of my family in the rural area they live in. I live on the southwest side, so after a very short trip out of town I have mapped and driven the forest service roads to get to where I need to go so I can avoid the major hwys. I just don't trust anyone in our suburban neighborhood and supplies would be gone in an instant...after much thought, if I think the situation is shaping up to be one that lasts more than a couple weeks, we have to go. Of course I would have to make that call for my family in the first couples days at most.

If everyone could get there as planned, then we would have a nice sized group of people that would be useful in many ways.

Everyone should read One Second After (http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-Forstchen/dp/0765317583/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297358382&sr=8-1) by William Forstchen. Its a fictional book about an extreme SHTF situation after multiple worldwide EMP strikes. In this case they are in a rural setting and choose to bug-in.

That said, anyone read Bug Out (http://www.amazon.com/Bug-Out-Complete-Escaping-Catastrophic/dp/156975781X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1297358382&sr=8-3) or Patriots (http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-Surviving-James-Wesley-Rawles/dp/156975599X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297358382&sr=8-2). I haven't but both look pretty interesting

I haven't read Bug Out or Lights Out (I can't find a printed copy and I don't like reading books on a PC screen because I stare at them 10 hours per day for work). I have read One Second After and Patriots. Both are very good books and I recommend them to anyone who wants to be prepared. But they have to be taken for what they are - one person's idea of a fictional situation. Patriots gets a little self-righteous and even pretentious at times. But still gives you a lot to think about.

A key point I think you will get from any of these books is the higher the population density of an area, the faster civilization will break down. And I agree with them. Cities cannot be sustained without technology. Too many consumers and too few sustainable resources produced locally. Food will be gone in a matter of days in most cities.

If you live in a big city and choose to stay put, in a short-term SHTF scenario you could probably survive just fine, but in a longterm TEOTWAWKI scenario, I think survival would be extremely difficult. There will simply be too many people looking to take what you have because they don't have it. De Facto governments and figureheads will declare martial law and confiscate anything of value to them for the "common good." If people can't take it, they will burn down your house with you in it just to spite you. If enough starving and armed idiots are outside your house and they think you have food, you will probably die before they give up.

To be prepared, I think one has to cover both a bug-out and bug in scenario, and more than one level of each scenario. I have a nice fifth wheel trailer that is pretty self-sufficient. Solar powered with over 200 gallons of total fresh water capacity. (I don't stock much food in it because the temperature fluctiations inside a stored RV can easily cut the storage life of even the best prepared food in half.) And I have places to go with people I trust. But what happens if I can't get to my trailer? Or what happens if my trailer gets damaged or destroyed, or even stolen, before I can get to a safe location? It's not hard to steal an RV. Just hook it to a truck.

I had to bug out about three years ago. Tornado took the second floor off of our home. I had 30 minutes to pack for the entire family and I did not know when we would come back. I knew I could go to a hotel, so this was not a survival scenario. But even in that "easy" to pack scenario, it was much harder than I ever could have imagined, and I was not prepared. As for my fifthw wheel, the one I owned at that time was laying on its side with water and food running out the windows and 4x4 fence posts driven through the flloor boards. If this had been a survival situation, and I was counting on that trailer, or anything in it, for my survival, I would have been up the preverbial creek without a paddle.

[Wulf202]

lightsoutthebook.com or search on amazon.com for it.

this is where jerry and i will disagree. the first thing i think you should do is have a bug out plan. then figure out how to avoid that from becoming neccesary and take those steps [which takes $] the planning is free or atleast inexpensive. and who knows what will happen while youre working towards the stocked pantry. you can have a badass pantry setup in an apartment and the idiot neighbor has a fire or floods you out. then what?

[thecatsfan]

Thanks but I rarely buy books like this. I will borrow it from a library, but I have no intereste in owning it. There are far better books to own for preparedeness than fiction books.