SBR question

[TriggerHappy]

Say you register your lower for 7-14.5". Can you still run a 16 or 18" and be legal? Or would you register for 7.5-18"? How the heck does that work?

[Graves]

I believe you're gtg w/ any upper. I was told that if you went the llc route, there is some extra paper work involved in swapping barrel lengths.

[TriggerHappy]

What do you mean not as easy? Just trying to figure out my options before I pull the trigger.

[Graves]

What do you mean not as easy? Just trying to figure out my options before I pull the trigger.

I'm uncertain on the specifics but I was told that notification would have to be submitted. Where? Not sure... I'm sure somebody here can clarify.

[micah360]

Yes you will be fine running anything you want. Here's a quote from the ATF's website on adding a longer barrel to a SBR:

Q: May the short barrel on an SBR or SBS be replaced with a long barrel for hunting or other purposes, with the intent of replacing the short barrel?

A: Yes, and you will not be required to again register the firearm before replacing the short barrel. ATF recommends written notification to the NFA Branch when a firearm’s configuration is permanently changed or removed from the purview of the NFA.

Here's the page where it's quoted from. There's a lot of good info on this page.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html#removal-from-nfa

[Dr_Fwd]

you registering the LOWER only, not the bbl length - so you can run any upper you want after that.

[DeusExMachina]

If you were registering an AK or some other less-configurable rifle and put a longer barrel back on it, you should notify the ATF to remove it from the database. Then you can sell it as a normal firearm, without a transfer.

But for ARs, you can put whatever barrel length on your registered lower.

[TriggerHappy]

Thanks guys. I was just wondering. I have been throwing around an SBR for a few years. I just wanted to make sure that if I registered my lower and wanted to go out and whack me some yotes I could throw on the 18" spr upper and whack away. Then when I got home I could return it back to an SBR.

[Dr_Fwd]

Thanks guys. I was just wondering. I have been throwing around an SBR for a few years. I just wanted to make sure that if I registered my lower and wanted to go out and whack me some yotes I could throw on the 18" spr upper and whack away. Then when I got home I could return it back to an SBR.

yeap.

[Fredmisery]

Say you register your lower for 7-14.5". Can you still run a 16 or 18" and be legal? Or would you register for 7.5-18"? How the heck does that work?

They won't approve a Form 1 if you enter 7-14.5" for barrel length, you have to enter a specific barrel length. You don't have to keep it that length if it's not a permanent modification, but if you register an sbr with a 10" barrel then you're limited to 10" and longer barrels. With AR's I register all at 7" and then I'm pretty much free to swap uppers however I want. No change is really permanent with AR barrels, 2 pins and it's changed. At least that has been my experience over the years.....

[micah360]

They approved mine and I listed 7"-14.5" as the barrel length.

[SAnd]

They won't approve a Form 1 if you enter 7-14.5" for barrel length, you have to enter a specific barrel length. You don't have to keep it that length if it's not a permanent modification, but if you register an sbr with a 10" barrel then you're limited to 10" and longer barrels. With AR's I register all at 7" and then I'm pretty much free to swap uppers however I want. No change is really permanent with AR barrels, 2 pins and it's changed. At least that has been my experience over the years.....
Can you cite a law, regulation or ruling that states that the barrel length on the Form (1 or 4) is the minimum length you can have on that gun? My understanding is you as long as you have a barrel the form size in your possession that you can temporarily install any other length you want. I have also been told that there is nothing requiring the NFA firearm match the Form length or caliber. I have never heard that the Form length is a minimum before today.

I have been unable to find anything that says the Form entry is the minimum length or required length in the ATF information available.

[Fredmisery]

Can you cite a law, regulation or ruling that states that the barrel length on the Form (1 or 4) is the minimum length you can have on that gun? My understanding is you as long as you have a barrel the form size in your possession that you can temporarily install any other length you want. I have also been told that there is nothing requiring the NFA firearm match the Form length or caliber. I have never heard that the Form length is a minimum before today.

I have been unable to find anything that says the Form entry is the minimum length or required length in the ATF information available.

You are correct, I got my wires crossed on the length issue from 2 Form 1's I had kicked back about 2 yrs ago. Tired when I responded, but short version was trying to list multiple cal and barrel lengths and told it was a no-go and that I had to list a specific length and caliber. Was told I could change uppers of different cal and length as long as the firearm could be readily restored to the configuration on the form one. From what I noted it was a suggestion to list the shortest barrel length I would use, (never cross-checked it with my NFA manual) but apparently not required. I generally take pretty good notes of my conversations with examiners for my own reference, I realized my memory was incorrect after reviewing my notes. Examiner was Sandra Snook.
Good call, I hate getting my info wrong though, too much of that going around already with NFA laws. My apologies for not double-checking before posting.

[Fredmisery]

They approved mine and I listed 7"-14.5" as the barrel length.

How long ago was that? I've had 2 Form 1's sent back over that exact issue. Both approx 2 yrs ago. One of my dealers said he used to see them approve multiple cal also, but they wouldn't approve that for me either. Snook does my Form 1's. Please tell me it was several years before my attempt, I don't like the idea that I got jerked around for no good reason. Never had an issue with anything on a Form 4 either, just the Form 1 stuff.

[SAnd]

You are correct, I got my wires crossed on the length issue from 2 Form 1's I had kicked back about 2 yrs ago.Examiner was Sandra Snook.
Good call, I hate getting my info wrong though, too much of that going around already with NFA laws. My apologies for not double-checking before posting.
No problem. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong. I have often found "common knowledge- everybody knows" to be wrong. I couldn't find anything myself but given all the different places you have to check for laws and stuff it wouldn't surprise me if I missed something. I didn't mean to sound like a hard ass.

The NFA laws are all a bunch of ca-ca anyway.

Have a Good Day.

[Fredmisery]

"Common Knowledge" is most certainly wrong more often than right. I refer to the NFA handbook and my collection of rulings to find most info myself, but obviously had some personal experiences with NFA that didn't match anything I could find in the handbook or otherwise. I can't believe I posted incorrect info, since I try to not be a "gun shop guru" spreading myths about NFA. But, I was bound to do it eventually.
Thanks for not draggin me over the coals on it!

[micah360]

The Form 1 was approved in Feb. 2008. They also approved this SBR for two calibers.


How long ago was that? I've had 2 Form 1's sent back over that exact issue. Both approx 2 yrs ago. One of my dealers said he used to see them approve multiple cal also, but they wouldn't approve that for me either. Snook does my Form 1's. Please tell me it was several years before my attempt, I don't like the idea that I got jerked around for no good reason. Never had an issue with anything on a Form 4 either, just the Form 1 stuff.

[Fredmisery]

The Form 1 was approved in Feb. 2008. They also approved this SBR for two calibers.

That was probably close to a year before I submitted mine, any idea if it's an examiner preference or an "unofficial" change of policy? I even had a dealer/manufacturer try to register an AR for me on a form 2 thinking they might approve a build by him in multi cal and length and he was told to correct the form also. These are the things that frustrate me with NFA, too much variation from one person to the next. At least with MG's I don't get the same hastles....