View Full Version : Hospitals in AZ potentially to require proof of citizenship
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/ap_on_re_us/us_immigrants_hospitals
By MICHELLE PRICE, Associated Press Michelle Price, Associated Press – 1 hr 55 mins ago
PHOENIX – Republican lawmakers want to widen Arizona's illegal immigration crackdown with a proposal to require hospitals to check on whether patients are in the country legally, causing outrage among medical professionals who fear becoming de facto immigration agents under the law.
The medical industry ripped the bill Monday as it was scheduled for a hearing by the Senate Judiciary Committee. Doctors envisioned scenarios in which immigrants with contagious diseases such as tuberculosis would stay home from the clinic or hospital and put themselves and the public at a grave health risk.
"This is making us into a police state that will try to catch people when they are sick," said George Pauk, a retired doctor with an organization called Physicians for a National Health Program. "Do we want to stop sick people from coming in for health care?"
Arizona is the first Legislature to take up such a measure amid a national push in conservative states to crack down on illegal immigration, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Arizona lawmakers ignited the debate a year ago when they passed a bill that required local police, while enforcing other laws, to question the immigration status (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/ap_on_re_us/us_immigrants_hospitals#) of those they suspect are in the country illegally. A judge later put that provision on hold.
The discussion about the bill comes just days after an illegal immigrant in Texas (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/ap_on_re_us/us_immigrants_hospitals#) with a banana-size tumor in her spine said she was ousted from her hospital because of her immigration status. She later found another hospital to get treatment.
Supporters say the hospital bill is necessary tool to fight illegal immigration at a time when hospitals lose tens of millions of dollars treating illegal immigrants in emergency rooms.
Senate President Russell Pearce (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/ap_on_re_us/us_immigrants_hospitals#), a Mesa Republican who was chief sponsor of last year's immigration law, says the hospitals bill is part of a broader effort to crack down on illegal immigration. The hospitals bill wouldn't bar people from getting care, but it would put the onus on hospitals to "do due diligence," Pearce said. "We're going to enforce our laws without apology."
Added Pearce: "It's the law. It's a felony to (aid and) abet. We're going to enforce the law without apology."
Other sponsors of the bill did not immediately return calls seeking comment. Discussion of the bill in the committee was put on hold late Monday until a later date.
The legislation, known as Senate Bill 1405, would require hospitals, when admitting nonemergency cases, to confirm that a person seeking care is a U.S. citizen or in the country legally. In emergency cases where the patient isn't here legally, the hospital would be required to call immigration authorities (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/ap_on_re_us/us_immigrants_hospitals#) after the treatment is done. Hospitals in non-emergency situations would also be required to contact federal immigration authorities, but they would have more apparent discretion about whether to treat illegal immigrants.
Opponents say the bill could pose serious health risks to those here legally and illegally. They believe the threat of deportation would keep some people from seeking health care for everything from emergency situations to measures such as vaccinations, potentially leading to preventable deaths. They also said it would increase hospitals' already-strained workload.
"You are now turning medical professionals into full-time INS agents," said Democratic state Sen. Steve Gallardo, speaking at a news conference Monday. "Doctors that should be working to help treat ill patients are now turning into ICE agents (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/ap_on_re_us/us_immigrants_hospitals#)."
Nicole Russell is the mother of a 3-year-old daughter named Kira, and she could not envision what it would be like for a parent to decide whether or not to take their child to the hospital for fear of being reported to the authorities.
"I can't imagine putting the health care of my daughter in the hands of politicians," she said.
First off, I want to say how much I enjoy the last quote. putting health care in the hands of politicians...yet this woman probably voted for obama and was overly excited that obamacare passed.
I am ecstatic that this is a potential law. It should be federal law, state law, and local law. I am sorry but I am tired of it all. I am tired of the wasted money, the amount that our country is being taken advantage of by illegals. I am pretty compassionate when it comes down to it, and would hate to see people suffer or die, but there is a point where enough is enough and we can't take it any more.
I see the point of the doctors/hospitals feeling like a de facto ICE agent(s), but they check health insurance, IDs, blood type, gender, prostates, give rectal exams etc etc, so checking legal status should be a no problem. Might even guarantee they get paid a bigger percentage of the bills they charge patients. Wouldn't that be something...
I know it isn't going to make our insurance premiums and costs come falling through the roof, if even bring them down at all, but hopefully it will slow the raises, keep better insurance with lower premiums and bring some health care issues under control.
oh...and last time I checked: illegal is illegal. no ifs ands or buts.
Jumpstart
02-14-2011, 21:11
Having been born, raised and educated on the U.S./Mexican border, the checking of citizenship at border state hospitals should have started 30 years ago, at least.
buffalobo
02-14-2011, 21:27
Unfortunately, liberal federal judge would quickly approve injunction against such a law and allow it to be tied up in court for years. Effectively nullifying it.
This is nonsense.
I used to work search and rescue with Border Patrol. We/They would drop illegals at hospitals all the time, "in custody" and they would walk out the front door of the hospital, because Border Patrol didn't want to pay for it/didn't care.
Best way to get into the US-
-climb Mexican side of the fense
-Fall off of fence onto US side
-twist ankle
-drive to Tucson hospital in Border Patrol air conditioned custody or better, in a bed in the back of an ambulance, or better still, get a free helicopter ride!
-Get meds and care on private hospital company dime
-walk out of hospital in major US city because BP doesn't want to pay for what the hospital has to and didn't show up to come and get you.
Just worthless rubber stampers who have no concept of what is really happening making noise
This is nonsense.
I used to work search and rescue with Border Patrol. We/They would drop illegals at hospitals all the time, "in custody" and they would walk out the front door of the hospital, because Border Patrol didn't want to pay for it/didn't care.
Best way to get into the US-
-climb Mexican side of the fense
-Fall off of fence onto US side
-twist ankle
-drive to Tucson hospital in Border Patrol air conditioned custody or better, in a bed in the back of an ambulance, or better still, get a free helicopter ride!
-Get meds and care on private hospital company dime
-walk out of hospital in major US city because BP doesn't want to pay for what the hospital has to and didn't show up to come and get you.
Just worthless rubber stampers who have no concept of what is really happening making noise
so...wouldn't this law be able to stop the admittance of such illegals to any hospital. I would have to hope/think so. No legal status = no care. unless they have the cash to pay up front, then they should not get care.
Pulled form an edit above-
By the way, I personally transported a little girl, less than a year old, to a Mexican hospital from an American one because she had AIDs and no one would pay for it. I would rather get treatment in most of your houses than the hospital we stopped at, we backed our box up on top of an open man hole to the sewer, and that was just the start of this. I am not proud of this to this day. Reality bites.
I would rather be poor my whole life than support this ever again. I am not even a very good Christian but this is abhorrent
My heart is aching just thinking about her. I don't suggest you follow my lead.
Byte Stryke
02-14-2011, 22:09
I Agree that Citizenship should be checked at Hospitals
de facto ICE Agents or not... you are preventing FRAUD and ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.
NOW... that being said, I Do not believe that ANY Person, Illegal or otherwise with a life threatening condition should be turned away.
If its an illegal and they have a serious ailment, by all means, Treat the ailment and give them a "Bus pass home"
As for the person "afraid" of getting caught, Don't break the law and you won't have to be afraid.
THe Yetti
02-14-2011, 22:10
So, you are in favor of illegal immigrants, who pay no taxes, getting free health care? And a regular tax paying citizen such as you or me has to pay huge sums for it whether we have insurance or not. It angers me to no end to be funding health care for someone who isn't even here legally to get services I can't afford for myself and my family. Am I way off on this?
NOW... that being said, I Do not believe that ANY Person, Illegal or otherwise with a life threatening condition should be turned away.
This is not possible-
For example, the first person I transported who died-
picked him up for Diarrhea (the glories of EMS)
dropped him at the hospital doing compresions
He was having a heart attack, wouldn't have known until it was too late
So, you are in favor of illegal immigrants, who pay no taxes, getting free health care? And a regular tax paying citizen such as you or me has to pay huge sums for it whether we have insurance or not. It angers me to no end to be funding health care for someone who isn't even here legally to get services I can't afford for myself and my family. Am I way off on this?
Not at all, my wife just got insurance and I just canceled mine, and I work/go to school in health care. It sucks, I know, but the simple fact is, this isn't where the problem lies. listen to politians and talk show junkies say it is all you want, but from the eyes of the insides, if you want to stop wasting money on health care, there is a different place to look. Worthless POS Americans who use the health care system. I transported a guy because he wanted to get across town and we were faster than a cab, no joke. I rutinely picked up a woman who weighed 500+ pounds and costed AZ more than 3 million a year, because she ate too much. I transported her once, after she called 911, because she was gaining weight!
thats where the money goes, because we can't say no to people who don't need it and abuse it, not because we say no to people who need it and didn't pay into it. I can say in all honesty, I transported a known illegal less than 10 times. But, I've transported the same drunk bum more than once in a shift! Fix this, and you will save a lot of money, get the lawyers out of it, and you will save a lot of money, get patient expectations to reality, and you will save a lot of money, get the illegals out, and you will save a LITTLE money. (I could go on)
Byte Stryke
02-14-2011, 22:17
This is not possible-
For example, the first person I transported who died-
picked him up for Diarrhea (the glories of EMS)
dropped him at the hospital doing compresions
He was having a heart attack, wouldn't have known until it was too late
well if you dropped him at the hospital doing compressions his citizenship status would not have been questioned until you dropped him off... correct?
The whole article is about Hospitals doing this, not Ambulances.
Once again, if you are concerned about getting caught breaking the law, Don't.
well if you dropped him at the hospital doing compressions his citizenship status would not have been questioned until you dropped him off... correct?
The whole article is about Hospitals doing this, not Ambulances.
Once again, if you are concerned about getting caught breaking the law, Don't.
What if he walked in the door is what I am saying. Triage nurse turns him around? dies on the curb? thats great for business, I'm sure hospitals will be all over this
Byte Stryke
02-14-2011, 22:22
Not at all, my wife just got insurance and I just canceled mine, and I work/go to school in health care. It sucks, I know, but the simple fact is, this isn't where the problem lies. listen to politians and talk show junkies say it is all you want, but from the eyes of the insides, if you want to stop wasting money on health care, there is a different place to look. Worthless POS Americans who use the health care system. I transported a guy because he wanted to get across town and we were faster than a cab, no joke. I rutinely picked up a woman who weighed 500+ pounds and costed AZ more than 3 million a year, because she ate too much. I transported her once, after she called 911, because she was gaining weight!
thats where the money goes, because we can't say no to people who don't need it and abuse it, not because we say no to people who need it and didn't pay into it. I can say in all honesty, I transported a known illegal less than 10 times. But, I've transported the same drunk bum more than once in a shift! Fix this, and you will save a lot of money, get the lawyers out of it, and you will save a lot of money, get patient expectations to reality, and you will save a lot of money, get the illegals out, and you will save a LITTLE money. (I could go on)
Health Care. State-funded uncompensated outlays for health care provided to Colorado’s illegal alien population amount to more than an estimated $82 million a year. That is a net cost after crediting compensation from the federal government. Additionally, Coloradans who have medical insurance also pay higher medical insurance bills to help cover the costs of those without insurance.
Now, I am not saying the system is perfect, but $82 Million would buy allot of school books.
Just to take another view on this-
I work in health care
cops, BP, ICE etc. work in law enforcement.
I did not sign up to enforce anything, I am trained to not judge my patients.
This is making those who have no desire to do this, who have no training to do this, and have no place doing this, and I worked/work for a private business, do something because law enforcement at every level keeps failing at it.
Maybe we should be asking why the border is so open that nurses need to be doing imigration busts!
Byte Stryke
02-14-2011, 22:27
What if he walked in the door is what I am saying. Triage nurse turns him around? dies on the curb? thats great for business, I'm sure hospitals will be all over this
So if I rob a Bank, get shot (Just a Shoulder shot) in the process, should I fear going to the hospital?
Should they NOT report me?
They aren't Cops, They should stay out of it!
Right?
Just as relevant, the law is the law and they are breaking it.
By NOT reporting a known criminal the hospital is committing a crime. Just as if they did not report the gunshot wound.
I Do see your point Mat, I simply dont agree with it.
So if I rob a Bank, get shot (Just a Shoulder shot) in the process, should I fear going to the hospital?
Should they NOT report me?
They aren't Cops, They should stay out of it!
Right?
Just as relevant, the law is the law and they are breaking it.
By NOT reporting a known criminal the hospital is committing a crime. Just as if they did not report the gunshot wound.
I Do see your point Mat, I simply dont agree with it.
Afraid not, I make/will make no legal judgements, ever. Not my place. I happily let cops on my box, stood with them in ERs but my place wasn't to put cuffs on anybody, and I don't want it to be, ever. It will ruin what health care is.
There is a law, or better no law making a medical person report all but a few crimes or threats of crimes (rape, abuse, murder, suicide, etc.). If a man was on my box with a GSW, guess what, I didn't call the police. I didn't ask what he did, I would ask about the GSW to treat it better. i.e. when, where, with what, how long ago, list goes on. But not, "what were you doing you felon POS?" I have also transported stab wounds with no PD involvement. I am not a detective, I am not going to play dress up and pretend I am one.
I have transported criminals, fresh from crimes, my job was to treat them, not to judge them, just as a combat medic treats the friends and the foes. We treated the drunk driver and the woman he ran into. We treated the drug addict and the man with CHF. It is what we do.
This isn't to say we are blind, I remember a day standing in an ER with a cop friend of mine, a little boy had been beaten half to death by his dad. I asked why so many cops were in the ER. He said because dad wasn't locked up yet, the cops were there to keep him safe, from us.
Health care comes from a long back round of treating those in need. A better fix if tax payers don't want to pay for illegals is to get gov't out of health care as a whole, but be prepared to deal with that as well.
I'm not comfortable with doctors enforcing the law, just as much as I'm not comfortable with politicians trying to run health care.
I guess you guys would like to start the new motto of "When seconds count, your ID is only miles away."
I don't like illegals anymore than any of you guys do. I actually cry a little every time I go to King Soopers and everyone always knows about "that lone, teary-eyed, gringo" that shops there. A law like this would be terrible for everyone though. My fiance isn't a citizen, but she is a permanent resident, has lived here longer than I have, has supported me, more or less, since I lost my job (the first time) in 2008, and has more "American Values" than I'll have in my entire life. Alas, she looks like a *Mexican. She is the one with the health insurance for her and our daughter. We all carry our info all the time, but God forbid something happens and her, or our daughter's, proof of citizenship isn't available.
In case I have to spell it out. If some dumb fuck thinks that he/she is being patriotic and denies service to my family in a life threatening emergency, they won't be making it home to their family, ever. It won't matter who thought who was American then.
*Call her a Mexican and she'll unsheath her machete and redecorate your face.
*Call her a Mexican and she'll unsheath her machete and redecorate your face.
Just a guess, Guatemalan?
Also, I fully agree. It's not my place just as much as I am not asking cab drivers, pilots, or plumbers to check ID and make sure your customer isn't a felon before saying hello.
End of the day, this isn't going to work, regardless of the law.
The amount of time it would take to check citizenship, would negate the whole purpose of this, and then when you eventually find out and I am not going to be the man to unplug the balloon pump, say "sorry buddy, didn't pay" and ship the corpse back to Mexico. Good luck finding the nurse or doctor who will.
Just a guess, Guatemalan?
Heh, nah, more south. On the right track though.
I have to agree that the answer to failure in the law enforcement, isn't to start recruiting a bunch of nurses. Besides, people who work in hospitals are mostly all a bunch of bleeding hearts and wouldn't turn people in anyway.
Byte Stryke
02-14-2011, 23:04
In case I have to spell it out. If some dumb fuck thinks that he/she is being patriotic and denies service to my family in a life threatening emergency, they won't be making it home to their family, ever. It won't matter who thought who was American then.
wow, talk about twisting the argument.
No one ever said Deny service in a life threatening emergency.
I believe I Said the opposite.
But yeah, threatening to intentionally kill people makes a perfectly logical point.
wow, talk about twisting the argument.
No one ever said Deny service in a life threatening emergency.
I believe I Said the opposite.
But yeah, threatening to intentionally kill people makes a perfectly logical point.
I would like to agree Byte, but I guess what I am having a hard time saying is that it isn't possible. The way health care works and service denial, just doesn't work at an ER level, which is where this issue exists. Once they make it to the floor, hospital admin, has shumcks like me drive little baby girls back to Mexico to die in a hovel because we don't want to spend our tax dollars, already. At the door, you can't turn someone away because of ID, period. It will not work, ever, if you want health care to be a remotely ethical and efficient process.
Also-
I will say I find it funny how many want gov't involvment in health care for "this," because its wrong/wastefull, but want them to stay the hell out for "that," because they screw everything up. Seems to me you should pick one and stick to it.
But yeah, threatening to intentionally kill people makes a perfectly logical point.
Have to say in this case, yeah it does. If it was my daughter being turned away by some jerk, I see all kinds of logic in it.
Besides, people who work in hospitals are mostly all a bunch of bleeding hearts and wouldn't turn people in anyway.
Would any of you want it any other way?
I didn't say that is what you said Byte. I realize that you were arguing the same point as I was.
And it isn't a threat, it's a promise. Deny my babies life saving services because they look Mexican, and I will kill you. I won't apologize for it, I won't take back my comment, and I won't remove it.
I don't have all the answers. I don't even have the answer to this problem, but I can tell you that denying services in a life threatening emergency to a person who doesn't have proof of citizenship on their person is a bad idea.
I realize no one has said anything about denying people in that situation, but I thought I'd jump ahead and lay this out on the table early. There has to be a line some where. I don't know where the line should be, but I know where it shouldn't be.
I wish I had the answer so I could drop a bomb of wisdom and stop looking like an over reacting asshole, but I don't. I guess I'll just have to settle for being a guy looking out for the best interests of his family and being in a pretty unfortunate situation where his family happens to look similar to every "Undesirable Number 1" in the country.
And don't anyone accuse me of being sympathetic toward illegals either. I'm none too thrilled to be classified as "them" when we go out in public. Thanks a ton Mexico.
Would any of you want it any other way?
I was actually just going to point that out. Everyone has their place in society.
Also, I've known a fair share of nurses and people who went to school to be an RN or whatever. Many of them were the most stupid, worthless, shitbags I've ever met. Asking for a law like this is basically asking grow the TSA to include hospitals as well. Do not want.
Byte Stryke
02-14-2011, 23:43
yeah I am done with having my words twisted, people threatening to kill each other over something that was never said.
And we call the Jihadists crazy? At least there really is someone out to get them.
Peace out.
Not at all, my wife just got insurance and I just canceled mine, and I work/go to school in health care. It sucks, I know, but the simple fact is, this isn't where the problem lies. listen to politians and talk show junkies say it is all you want, but from the eyes of the insides, if you want to stop wasting money on health care, there is a different place to look. Worthless POS Americans who use the health care system. I transported a guy because he wanted to get across town and we were faster than a cab, no joke. I rutinely picked up a woman who weighed 500+ pounds and costed AZ more than 3 million a year, because she ate too much. I transported her once, after she called 911, because she was gaining weight!
thats where the money goes, because we can't say no to people who don't need it and abuse it, not because we say no to people who need it and didn't pay into it. I can say in all honesty, I transported a known illegal less than 10 times. But, I've transported the same drunk bum more than once in a shift! Fix this, and you will save a lot of money, get the lawyers out of it, and you will save a lot of money, get patient expectations to reality, and you will save a lot of money, get the illegals out, and you will save a LITTLE money. (I could go on)
There may be those stories, but I just flew home 3 hours with a US ARMY medic who is also a 20 year (he was about 50) ER doctor in Missoula, MT. His thoughts were exactly what this law is wanting to do plus some. There needs to be the option to turn illegals away and not treat them. if it is life threatening, then give them the service, and hope for payment but expect nothing. other than life threatening, they are on their own.
He worked as an ER doctor at the Baghdad hospital, and worked with several guys from border states. He was very compassionate and said he would never turn anyone away who needed help, and that is the nature of the job, but he also said the illegals need to stop. they come in to the ER for a stubbed toe late at night, get all the help they need, then take off and never pay a dime. same with the illegals the BP pick up and bring in. the hospitals get nothing for this. People with real emergencies don't get the attention they should or are paying for because of these people.
all of this is from him, not me.
Basically, I want to see a massive decrease in illegals all the way around. imagine how much better our entire system would be. roads, hospitals, DMV, banks, insurance, justice system, law enforcement, schools. all of these would see massive improvements in customer service, availability, productivity etc without illegals draining on the system.
a small % is going to happen, is acceptable to a certain point, but we are pushing it pretty hard. I see it big time at the local schools.
Now, I am not saying the system is perfect, but $82 Million would buy allot of school books.
that doesn't even include the school costs. I looked into this and the school system is drained over 500 million a year due to illegals. either by actual costs for school lunch, % of salaries, or for lost income on property tax or local/state taxes paid.
the total state cost was over 1 billion a year.
Just to take another view on this-
I work in health care
cops, BP, ICE etc. work in law enforcement.
I did not sign up to enforce anything, I am trained to not judge my patients.
This is making those who have no desire to do this, who have no training to do this, and have no place doing this, and I worked/work for a private business, do something because law enforcement at every level keeps failing at it.
Maybe we should be asking why the border is so open that nurses need to be doing imigration busts!
meh...welcome to my life. All I want to do is fly the jet. now we have to worry about the security side, reporting suspicious passengers, flight attendants watching alcohol consumption, gate agents verifying ID.
just part of the job any more.
I went and ironed some shirts and cooled down some.
If someone can pay for services, then they should get them, illegal or not. The problem is with all the fraud. The lady at the front desk isn't going to be an effective barrier against fraud, and I don't want to see government get anymore involved in anything, anywhere, unless it is at a police station or a border crossing. If an illegal can go and buy insurance, show the legit card to get plates, then cancel the policy next week, I don't see why they can't do that with health insurance as well.
For as many car insurance salesman who will turn a person down because they know the policy will just be canceled next week, there are 10 more agents who will gladly mark up the fee, take the money, and not think twice about it. I know this from personal experience. You can start charging people a non-refundable down payment that is 40% of the total premium, but MOST people can't/won't accept that, and MOST people aren't illegals just trying to scam you.
Once the people are here, adding more complicated laws isn't really going to help the issue. I really wish I had the correct answer of how reduce the flow of illegal immigration into this country, and I wish someone would have stolen it from me and implemented it here 25 years ago already.
I really wish I had the correct answer of how reduce the flow of illegal immigration into this country,
We have and know the answer.
You lock down the borders and ports completely. Leave all you want. No ONE gets in without proper paperwork already in place and completed. You cross the line, you die - period.
But, people say it's too inhumane/cold hearted, this country was built on immigration, blah blah blah, etc.
This country was built on LEGAL immigration through Ellis Island where people brought SKILLS (farming, mechanical, idealogies/theoretical, etc) with them. Ask me how I know - Because my ancestry is immigrants.
MOST of these people coming here illegally are parasites, plain and simple. There are some good ones that come to work hard and make a new life and give to society, etc. But the VAST majority are just parasites.
I keep telling myself I won't get involved in these discussions but I can never keep my mouth shut.
We have laws on the books for all this. We don't need more laws, we need enforcement.
We live in a different age with a different and full country now.. No more whatif thoughts.
Byte Stryke
02-15-2011, 10:55
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Homeland-Security.gif
Ask my Ancestors what a liberal immigration policy will get you
I love that shirt. My BIL is a Native American, Yazzi tribe of Navajo. Anyways, he wears that shirt and calls me his white brother. Everytime the immigration or Muslim or whatever comes up he always responds with, "I don't worry, white man already played cowboys and Indians." HAHAHA.
bellavite1
02-15-2011, 11:27
Not at all, my wife just got insurance and I just canceled mine, and I work/go to school in health care. It sucks, I know, but the simple fact is, this isn't where the problem lies. listen to politians and talk show junkies say it is all you want, but from the eyes of the insides, if you want to stop wasting money on health care, there is a different place to look. Worthless POS Americans who use the health care system. I transported a guy because he wanted to get across town and we were faster than a cab, no joke. I rutinely picked up a woman who weighed 500+ pounds and costed AZ more than 3 million a year, because she ate too much. I transported her once, after she called 911, because she was gaining weight!
thats where the money goes, because we can't say no to people who don't need it and abuse it, not because we say no to people who need it and didn't pay into it. I can say in all honesty, I transported a known illegal less than 10 times. But, I've transported the same drunk bum more than once in a shift! Fix this, and you will save a lot of money, get the lawyers out of it, and you will save a lot of money, get patient expectations to reality, and you will save a lot of money, get the illegals out, and you will save a LITTLE money. (I could go on)
So, this leads me to ask:
Am I the only one that gets fuming when I see an ambulance and a fully crewed fire engine picking up a fucking drunk passed out on the side of the road?
Is this where the additional fundings that my FD always asks for at any given election go?
I have been voting and will be voting against ANY more funds going to tthe Fire Dept until his bullshit stops!
So, this leads me to ask:
Am I the only one that gets fuming when I see an ambulance and a fully crewed fire engine picking up a fucking drunk passed out on the side of the road?
Is this where the additional fundings that my FD always asks for at any given election go?
I have been voting and will be voting against ANY more funds going to tthe Fire Dept until his bullshit stops!
No you're not the only one. I DO believe in helping people who need help and want to change, etc.... I do not believe in helping people ruin themselves or enabling a practice to continue.
I get mad at the "amber lamps" picking up the homeless to take 'em to the shelter cause they can't afford a cab (or walk two blocks, or sleep outside in the beautiful Texas summer night weather) while the 76 year old guy is laying on his lawn havin' a heart attack from heat stroke/exhaustion (while his stinking grown up kid is playing video games). <-- true story. I mowed the guys lawn every week after that until I moved after high school.
I don't think we have enough medical care folks to get to everyone quick enough, should we start being selective? Don't know. Scary slope. Anyways, I'm done... I will try to refrain from responding.
This country was built on LEGAL immigration through Ellis Island where people brought SKILLS (farming, mechanical, idealogies/theoretical, etc) with them. Ask me how I know - Because my ancestry is immigrants.
MOST of these people coming here illegally are parasites, plain and simple. There are some good ones that come to work hard and make a new life and give to society, etc. But the VAST majority are just parasites.
The Irish, the Italians, the Germans, the Chinese etc were painted with the same brush you are using now for Mexicans. This romantic idea that all immigrants prior to our current influx were accepted with open arms and were immediately productive and indispensable equals in American Society is a fairy tale. Ever major wave of immigration experienced by this country has been accompanied by crime, illiteracy, poverty, discrimination and talks of what to do about the immigrant threat to American Society. You could take an article from the 1860's decrying the 'Ape-like Irish', replace Irish with Mexican, and think you were reading some news article from today.
I'm sure if you told an American in the 1860's that in a hundred years not only would an Irish family be one of the richest in America, but one of their sons would become one of our greatest presidents, they would have laughed in your face. No Dirty Irish Ape could accomplish such a thing. History, the good and the bad, always repeats itself. One day the great great grand children of today's Mexican immigrants will become some of the best among us. They'll be accepted, they'll be Americans. And I'm sure those same descendants will forget the lessons on their past and decry the influx of whatever immigrants are finding their way to America in their time. This is the way of things.
And I agree with BigMat, it's not the place of health care providers and first responders to determine or even care about immigration status. Their job is simply to render aid and help a fellow human being.
The bigger issue belongs to our government and to the special interest who benefit from the broken system. Until no one has a political or economic interest in having millions of undocumented and exploitable workers in our country, nothing will ever get fixed.
Byte Stryke
02-15-2011, 14:55
The Irish, the Italians, the Germans, the Chinese etc were painted with the same brush you are using now for Mexicans. This romantic idea that all immigrants prior to our current influx were accepted with open arms and were immediately productive and indispensable equals in American Society is a fairy tale. Ever major wave of immigration experienced by this country has been accompanied by crime, illiteracy, poverty, discrimination and talks of what to do about the immigrant threat to American Society. You could take an article from the 1860's decrying the 'Ape-like Irish', replace Irish with Mexican, and think you were reading some news article from today.
I'm sure if you told an American in the 1860's that in a hundred years not only would an Irish family be one of the richest in America, but one of their sons would become one of our greatest presidents, they would have laughed in your face. No Dirty Irish Ape could accomplish such a thing. History, the good and the bad, always repeats itself. One day the great great grand children of today's Mexican immigrants will become some of the best among us. They'll be accepted, they'll be Americans. And I'm sure those same descendants will forget the lessons on their past and decry the influx of whatever immigrants are finding their way to America in their time. This is the way of things.
And I agree with BigMat, it's not the place of health care providers and first responders to determine or even care about immigration status. Their job is simply to render aid and help a fellow human being.
The bigger issue belongs to our government and to the special interest who benefit from the broken system. Until no one has a political or economic interest in having millions of undocumented and exploitable workers in our country, nothing will ever get fixed.
I Agree completely with the position that it is not the place of health care workers.
I Do submit to you that it can be the position of a health care ADMINISTRATOR to verify the citizenship status while they are running all of the other BS.
"Hey I ran this persons info and it came back that they are a white female 5'11 Blond/Blue eyes, and we just admitted a Hispanic male 5'5" Brown/Brown Eyes. I think someone should be notified!"
Obviously if its NOT a Life threatening emergency the person will still be sitting in the booth in front of them. If its a Life/Death issue they will already be in the back getting compressions or whatever. Thus be receiving the life saving treatment they need.
it took me EIGHT YEARS to get rid of Bill collectors, IRS and everyone else after a "undocumented worker" borrowed my "documentation"
try explaining to the IRS that you dont owe them 4 years of fees and penalties for the money you made in TX while you were deployed in the Gulf.
All in all it cost me about $280K
As for the Irish immigrant analogy, doesn't work because the Irish immigrants had every intention of Staying here. Not coming here, exploiting the system making as much tax free money as possible while shipping it all home for their retirement.
The Irish, the Italians, the Germans, the Chinese etc were painted with the same brush you are using now for Mexicans.
Agreed.
This romantic idea that all immigrants prior to our current influx were accepted with open arms and were immediately productive and indispensable equals in American Society is a fairy tale.
Agreed. There were major race riots.
Ever major wave of immigration experienced by this country has been accompanied by crime, illiteracy, poverty, discrimination and talks of what to do about the immigrant threat to American Society. You could take an article from the 1860's decrying the 'Ape-like Irish', replace Irish with Mexican, and think you were reading some news article from today.
Yes, but it's still ILLEGAL immigration. The story is getting twisted. It's illegal and they are committing crimes and being set free. I don't care if they were white, black, purple, blue or from Mars. It's ILLEGAL and they are getting away with it BECAUSE they are ILLEGAL. Enforce the damn rules/laws we have in place. Make an example out of a few and the majority will learn.
The other folks came here LEGALLY (there is always exceptions) to better their lives. They didn't use the system and send the money away to another country (unless they were bringing their families over too. Etc. There are always rotten apples, but they wanted to contribute to a NEW AMERICAN experience, not bring little italy, china, etc here.
History, the good and the bad, always repeats itself.
Majorly agreed. So does this arrangement/argument.
One day the great great grand children of today's Mexican immigrants will become some of the best among us. They'll be accepted, they'll be Americans.
No doubt.
And I'm sure those same descendants will forget the lessons on their past and decry the influx of whatever immigrants are finding their way to America in their time. This is the way of things.
Agreed.
And I agree with BigMat, it's not the place of health care providers and first responders to determine or even care about immigration status. Their job is simply to render aid and help a fellow human being.
Agreed again... those tangets have been chased. At what expense though do we stop taking care of "others" and start taking care of "ours". Do we treat the citizen having a heart attack first or do we go pick up the illegal with the stubbed toe first? We only have so many medical providers... etc... blah, blah, I'm done.
The bigger issue belongs to our government and to the special interest who benefit from the broken system. Until no one has a political or economic interest in having millions of undocumented and exploitable workers in our country, nothing will ever get fixed.
ding, ding, ding, winner.
I don't understand, are we giving free rides to illegal immigrants? What about legal immigrants? I'm pretty sure either way they have to be working to provide for themselves. Is there some gubmint program to feed and house them all?
For the record, I think the bill says the people get treated and then their immigration status is determined. They aren't going to start dumping people out the back of the hospital if they're a furriner.
H.
Byte Stryke
02-15-2011, 15:34
I don't understand, are we giving free rides to illegal immigrants? What about legal immigrants? I'm pretty sure either way they have to be working to provide for themselves. Is there some gubmint program to feed and house them all?
For the record, I think the bill says the people get treated and then their immigration status is determined. They aren't going to start dumping people out the back of the hospital if they're a furriner.
H.
Just as an FYI
LEGAL immigrants on their own Identification are not eligible for most government assistance programs.
When I first got canned and hadn't been approved for unemployment yet, I was drawing foodstamps.
They wouldn't even count my legal immigrant wife as a member of the family for calculating the amount.
No Medicare/Medicaid, no food-stamps, nothing as far as I know.
I don't know about ALL of the programs, but the ones I had requested were listed above.
As for the Irish immigrant analogy, doesn't work because the Irish immigrants had every intention of Staying here. Not coming here, exploiting the system making as much tax free money as possible while shipping it all home for their retirement.
"The Irish fill our prisons, our poor houses (the only form of welfare at the time)...Scratch a convict or a pauper, and the chances are that you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic. Putting them on a boat and sending them home would end crime in this country." - The Chicago Post.
Seems Americans of that time didn't think too highly of the Irish. The Irish were also accused of refusing to assimilate into American society, fiercely holding on to their Irish identity (true). Their loyalty to America was also questioned since they are all Catholic and Catholics only have allegiance to The Pope in Rome. See the pattern? Every new group is demonized in some way.
I highly doubt every Mexican immigrant (legal and illegal) is planning to return to Mexico in their golden years. If Mexico was a place worth retiring to, they wouldn't have left to begin with. Will a measurable percentage go home? Sure. For some home is home, even if it is a shit hole. But I think we'll find, especially amongst their children and grandchildren, they'll chose to stay here, their new home. With each passing generation they'll have less and less in common with Mexico and identify themselves more and more as American (but I'm sure they'll still party on Cinco De Mayo). My Dad's side of the family is Irish, came here during the Great Potato Famine. I hardly think of myself as an Irishman. I'm sure my Great Grandpa and Uncles would have identified differently. Assimilation takes time.
My Dad's side of the family is Irish, came here during the Great Potato Famine. I hardly think of myself as an Irishman. I'm sure my Great Grandpa and Uncles would have identified differently. Assimilation takes time.
Two questions:
1. How did they come here?
- I suspect, "bye boat, through LEGAL means" END OF THREAD.
2. What did they do when they came here?
- I suspect "Found jobs and became self sufficient. Contributed to a better life here in America for their family and friends. TRIED to fit in, wanted to learn and contribute." END OF THREAD.
Yes, but it's still ILLEGAL immigration. The story is getting twisted. It's illegal and they are committing crimes and being set free. I don't care if they were white, black, purple, blue or from Mars. It's ILLEGAL and they are getting away with it BECAUSE they are ILLEGAL. Enforce the damn rules/laws we have in place. Make an example out of a few and the majority will learn.
The other folks came here LEGALLY (there is always exceptions) to better their lives. They didn't use the system and send the money away to another country (unless they were bringing their families over too. Etc. There are always rotten apples, but they wanted to contribute to a NEW AMERICAN experience, not bring little italy, china, etc here.
I totally agree with enforcing the laws of the land. But it's not an EMT or doctor's job to do so. That is the purvey of the federal government, and they're failing miserably at it on purpose. There's money to be made.
I totally agree with enforcing the laws of the land. But it's not an EMT or doctor's job to do so. That is the purvey of the federal government, and their failing miserably at it on purpose. There's money to be made.
Truth....
Two questions:
1. How did they come here?
- I suspect, "bye boat, through LEGAL means" END OF THREAD.
Do you really think they visited an American embassy and got papers blessing them as legal immigrants? They came here not knowing what to expect, and only hoping to be accepted. What did they have to lose? Ireland, at the time, was a shit hole. Death in America or death in Ireland. Death is death, so they rolled the dice. Lucky for them there was no real immigration laws in America back then and there was great need for common laborers. There's no difference in how my ancestors came here and how Mexicans are coming here. Both just have a hope and a prayer. The real difference is the law on the books. An important difference to a lawyer or politician, but inconsequential to someone desperately trying to give their family a better life.
Ask yourself, if things were reversed, would you care that Mexico had strict immigration laws forbidding illegal Americans? Nope. You would do whatever you had to to feed your family. Most immigrants, legal or not, are hard working people just trying to survive.
2. What did they do when they came here?
- I suspect "Found jobs and became self sufficient. Contributed to a better life here in America for their family and friends. TRIED to fit in, wanted to learn and contribute." END OF THREAD.
Probably lived in squalor and poverty while being treated as outcasts and criminals by American society. They probably only associated with their fellow Irish since they were the only thing familiar to them in a strange land. But they did work hard and over time, became American. Every poor (I mean economically) immigrant, no matter where they come from, has basically the same story.
hmm... I can't seem to quote the quote....
In response:
"Do you really think they visited an American embassy and got papers blessing them as legal immigrants?"
No, but I believe they came wanting and probably asked around or sought out the information on how to stay here.
They came here not knowing what to expect, and only hoping to be accepted. What did they have to lose? Ireland, at the time, was a shit hole. Death in America or death in Ireland. Death is death, so they rolled the dice. Lucky for them there was no real immigration laws in America back then and there was great need for common laborers.
There is not that need any longer. Things change.
There's no difference in how my ancestors came here and how Mexicans are coming here.
I do beg to differ but I won't change your mind. Ancesters weren't really considered "ILLEGAL" since we didn't have the laws in place that we do now. Yes, they were ridiculed and thought to be mob scum, etc... but we've been over that.
Both just have a hope and a prayer.
Agreed.
The real difference is the law on the books. An important difference to a lawyer or politician, but inconsequential to someone desperately trying to give their family a better life.
And the coldness comes out in me. I want better for them. I truly want them to experience all they can in life and be in good health and make the money and etc... but there are laws that must be followed.
Ask yourself, if things were reversed, would you care that Mexico had strict immigration laws forbidding illegal Americans? Nope. You would do whatever you had to to feed your family.
I would not. Honestly. I would work my ass off as much as I could to try and strengthen my immediate surroundings, then the town, then the state, then the... I would NOT just up and move and hope it's better somewhere else or hope that someone else will take me in and provide everything.
Most immigrants, legal or not, are hard working people just trying to survive.
Again I'll beg to differ. I'll say some, but not most. I've lived in the Valley in TX and you'll never change my mind to differ.
2. What did they do when they came here?
- I suspect "Found jobs and became self sufficient. Contributed to a better life here in America for their family and friends. TRIED to fit in, wanted to learn and contribute." END OF THREAD.
Probably lived in squalor and poverty while being treated as outcasts and criminals by American society.
BUT they tried to make better situations for themselves, to PROVE to the American society that they were NOT parasites, not worthless sacks of bones with no respect to a strangers call.
The probably only associated with their fellow Irish since they were the only thing familiar to them in a strange land. But they did work hard and over time, became American. Every poor (I mean economically) immigrant (edit: Person), no matter where they come from, has basically the same story.
I agree... but I don't see the immigrants I know trying to work hard or become American. I see them using the system and ... grr....
I'm sorry Mutt. I said I'd quit. You're a great guy and I'm glad we live in American where we can have discussions like this. Take care. I'll try not to respond anymore.
the answer is simple really. You just make the country so unattractive that nobody wants to live here anymore. Then they all go back home. The strategy is already in progress as we speak. I have faith in my politicians they will see it through!
sounds like you nailed this one on the head (as usual)!
as this place becomes more and more socialized like canada (who constantly come to the US for medical care--again source is the ER doctor in MT), the less people will want to come here.
if we all start giving away everything, and just tax those making over $150K a year at 50%, and everyone else at 30%, I think we may start to get the plan really in action
I agree... but I don't see the immigrants I know trying to work hard or become American. I see them using the system and ... grr....
I'm sorry Mutt. I said I'd quit. You're a great guy and I'm glad we live in American where we can have discussions like this. Take care. I'll try not to respond anymore.
Don't mean to give you heartburn Big Bear =)
We agree in principle. The law is the law and should be enforced. And that's not the job of anyone but the federal government to enforce it. I just want to point out that not every Mexican is lazy, not every Irishman is a drunk, nor is every Italian a mobster and not all Asians are good at math (I hate math). And for every Illegal sponging off the system, there's an American citizen doing the same. I don't like generalisations, especially negative ones, being made against entire groups of people. This is America, we're better than that.
ChunkyMonkey
02-15-2011, 17:42
Awww crap... a good topic, 5 pages long... I am left out!
BTW Mutt, although I agree with most of your last post....
"And for every Illegal sponging off the system, there's an American citizen doing the same."
American citizens have the right to sponge off their own country, while the 'illegals' do not. Hope I am not out of context since I don't feel like reading the whole thread.
Carry on...
rockhound
02-15-2011, 18:23
Maybe we should be asking why the border is so open that nurses need to be doing imigration busts!
YOU SIR HAVE JUST HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD [Bang]
Jumpstart
02-15-2011, 18:23
There seems to be a lot of misapplied and erroneous comparisons about illegal immigration past and present. In number, geographic origin, language and culture, history etc. I am surprised at the illegal alien apologists here. It's quite disturbing actually.
Byte Stryke
02-15-2011, 18:47
There seems to be a lot of misapplied and erroneous comparisons about illegal immigration past and present. In number, geographic origin, language and culture, history etc. I am surprised at the illegal alien apologists here. It's quite disturbing actually.
not to mention that people erroneously believe it will be the doctors and nurses doing the checks.
The Apologists think the EMT's and nurses will be doing checks. WRONG, as with any other policy, it will be the hospital administrators.
The Policy Jockeys, pencil pushers and keyboard ninjas.
no one is saying that if an illegal from any Country (I don't know why everyone assumes illegals are only from Mexico) Shows up needing Life or death care, of course they will not be turned away.
You wont have candy-strippers cuffing and stuffing illegals.
The Administration simply turns away non emergency illegals, reports emergency illegals to the proper authorities AFTER TREATMENT.
now as for those that want to kill me because their family looks hispanic, I put it to you like this.
If your family member is well enough to identify themselves,. No Problem.
If your Family Member is NOT well enough to identify themselves its still not a problem.
Its not a situation wherein they are deporting John/Jane Does...
They are reporting known illegals to respective authorities.
Awww crap... a good topic, 5 pages long... I am left out!
BTW Mutt, although I agree with most of your last post....
American citizens have the right to sponge off their own country, while the 'illegals' do not. Hope I am not out of context since I don't feel like reading the whole thread.
Carry on...
My point was there are lazy scum from every culture and legal status. And an able bodied American has no right to sponge off the system, essentially stealing my wealth via taxes. But that's a whole different thread.
The Apologists think the EMT's and nurses will be doing checks. WRONG, as with any other policy, it will be the hospital administrators.
The Policy Jockeys, pencil pushers and keyboard ninjas.
It's not a hospital administrator's job to check on or even care about someone's status. Maybe they have more important things to do, like administering a hospital? And do you think ICE is even going to care if an administrator calls on an illegal being treated? They don't bother to even try stopping them before they enter the country let alone after the fact. This is the federal governments responsibility and only they have the authority to do something about enforcement.
If Americans don't like the system, demand the federal government fix it. But as long as the lobbyists representing the food packing, agricultural and construction industries demand cheap labor, don't hold your breath. Your checkbooks aren't big enough to get the government's attention.
Byte Stryke
02-15-2011, 19:57
It's not a hospital administrator's job to check on or even care about someone's status. Maybe they have more important things to do, like administering a hospital? And do you think ICE is even going to care if an administrator calls on an illegal being treated? They don't bother to even try stopping them before they enter the country let alone after the fact. This is the federal governments responsibility and only they have the authority to do something about enforcement.
If Americans don't like the system, demand the federal government fix it. But as long as the lobbyists representing the food packing, agricultural and construction industries demand cheap labor, don't hold your breath. Your checkbooks aren't big enough to get the government's attention.
why bother having a state government then... hell by your logic why care at all? and I Completely agree that administrators NEVER verify addresses, SSNs etc...
You're right, I give up. Lets keep feeding, clothing, and paying for the criminals while they suck us dry, Kill our citizens and then take our financial assets to a foreign country.
jerrymrc
02-15-2011, 21:16
After reading all this and gone from Patient care to Logistics over the last 30+ years my take.
Normally no one is every turned away from the ER. There are many documented cases where hospitals have used there divert function to send the non-insured elsewhere. This is all because of the bottom line. It has happened.
As far as the law they are trying to pass So far I do not see where it would affect ER patients. There are already many things that trigger a report from ER docs but I do not see this as one.
It WILL be the administrators (read bean counters) that should be reporting this. Any and all elective procedures require so much documentation on insurance and everything else that I for one do not see this as an issue.
Hospitals are suffering greater losses than ever because the pool of insured has dropped almost 30% in the last couple of years because of the job market.
Many places already have controls in place. Once you get past the stabilized state in the ER most want to know who is going to pay for the rest of it.
The ER IS where most of the money on people that cant pay is being spent. I still look at the ER as a place to go when I have an emergency. Many treat them as regular provider and go if they have a cold.
IMO the AZ bill is more of a feel good bill than anything else.
It is a sad state all around because to be honest I think the whole bloody system is broke.
So in the end not much will change. Illegal may be Illegal
but the laws in place long ago will not make the current problem go away unless you remove the population that are abusing them.
And my great father in law? that was here from Mexico City a few months ago agrees. ;)
Don't mean to give you heartburn Big Bear =)
We agree in principle. The law is the law and should be enforced. And that's not the job of anyone but the federal government to enforce it. I just want to point out that not every Mexican is lazy, not every Irishman is a drunk, nor is every Italian a mobster and not all Asians are good at math (I hate math). And for every Illegal sponging off the system, there's an American citizen doing the same. I don't like generalisations, especially negative ones, being made against entire groups of people. This is America, we're better than that.
here is the problem AZ is having. If it weren't for the federal government failing to enforce its laws due to politics and special interest groups, the state wouldn't be in this place as it is. the AZ ID checking law for law enforcement wouldn't have been a big deal, this hospital ID checking issue probably wouldn't even exist.
Several here are getting fired up over this topic, and understandably so. We all work hard for what we've got and for the freedoms we enjoy. Some of us have served for it, had or have family that have served and some given the ultimate price. Those people should be the most pissed because the illegals SHIT all over those people, this country and the values and freedoms we enjoy. they take advantage of our generosity, the programs designed to help those who most desperately need it or can not afford it.
And you are correct, a lot of immigrants from Mexico, even illegal ones are hard working and try to do the right thing. unfortunately there is a extreme disproportional amount that hide those people in the shade and cast a negative shadow against the entire lot of them.
Most have strong family values, my wife is a teacher and the Hispanic parents don't seem to care how their kids do in school but expect them to be respectful and are very supportive of her decisions and fully support her teaching since she is the teacher and they view her as a professional. A lot of american parents don't give a flying shit either way and get pissed if their kids schedule interferes with theirs.
The same goes for black communities. People generalize detroit, memphis, atlanta, new orleans as full of murderers, drug dealers, pimps, hoes, and lazy welfare suckers. While there is a disproportionate number of those relative to say salt lake city Utah or denver, there are a lot of great hard working people there who try hard, hold conservative values about working for what you want and doing the right thing.
As a whole, people need to get better, work together to improve themselves and their communities. Unfortunately, our own government is against us in this, giving away everything to score some votes. It isn't personal to them because the money doesn't come out of their pockets or hit them as hard, because the same tax dollars they are giving away for votes are the same ones used to pay their salaries, all their travel, their food, their security, and pretty much everything they enjoy.
Hell, if the Bears had gone to the super bowl, those tax dollars would have been paying for a certain someone to attend as well.
here is the problem AZ is having. If it weren't for the federal government failing to enforce its laws due to politics and special interest groups, the state wouldn't be in this place as it is. the AZ ID checking law for law enforcement wouldn't have been a big deal, this hospital ID checking issue probably wouldn't even exist.
This is the main crux for me. The Feds already don't do anything. How is some hospital admin reporting to them what they already knew supposed to change anything?
Byte Stryke
02-15-2011, 23:32
Sadly, Sniper is correct.
you dont hear about the hard working immigrant trying to make a better life for themselves here.
you hear about 42 illegals living in a 2 bedroom apartment that caused a fire.
you hear about the drug pusher killing a cop that has been deported 4 times already
You hear about the Illegal uninsured motorist killing a family while he was DUI.
You hear the disproportionately large number of screw ups because of the sense of entitlement.
They feel they deserve it, its nothing for them to Remove a U.S. Flag from a School and raise a mexican flag... on U.S. Soil!? 30 years ago they would be shot in place for acts of war or treason for this, Now we have to be sensitive to their cultural differences and needs.
Soon enough we will get a liberal in the ovarian office that will just hand back all of the southwestern states to Mexico. Slippery slope, I know. I am preparing for the worst, hoping for the best.
This is the main crux for me. The Feds already don't do anything. How is some hospital admin reporting to them what they already knew supposed to change anything?
The only thing I can think of is to further enhance their state laws in hopes the feds will take notice and take action, or unless they are gearing up towards succession.
It could just be a feel-good as someone mentioned before. It could be part of a bigger plan as well though.
I could only hope they are working toward having state laws that allow them enforcement to get rid of illegals, keep them off their health care and their state funded programs. I am sure there is a fine line the feds will play with them as far as federal money going to the state if they choose to enforce or how hard they enforce laws on the books.
yeah, to me it all comes back to how it is.
When BP knows they have an illegal in custody in a hospital, they let them go already, what's this law gonna change. Even if they did come and pick em up, they would just drive them south, and the illegal would hope right back over the fence, and the dance will start right back over.
To get medical about this (Ha!)
The hospitals, schools, and jobs are just symptoms, fixing them won't cure anything, the real root of the problem lies on the Line and on the Hill.
Too many rich man want cheap labor still, until that is fixed, the problem will exist. There is more than one US company advertising for jobs south of the line, and more than one patch of sand that is left open because of politics.
yeah, to me it all comes back to how it is.
When BP knows they have an illegal in custody in a hospital, they let them go already, what's this law gonna change. Even if they did come and pick em up, they would just drive them south, and the illegal would hope right back over the fence, and the dance will start right back over.
To get medical about this (Ha!)
The hospitals, schools, and jobs are just symptoms, fixing them won't cure anything, the real root of the problem lies on the Line and on the Hill.
Too many rich man want cheap labor still, until that is fixed, the problem will exist. There is more than one US company advertising for jobs south of the line, and more than one patch of sand that is left open because of politics.
Stop giving them work and the problem should go away...
That would have worked 20 years ago. Now they have social security numbers belonging to dead people and they have ID's issued by the Mexican consulate that are supposed to be considered valid forms of identification in the state of Colorado. Those 2 things are often good enough to get welfare, unemployment, and etc.
I remember watching a news segment several years ago when I lived in California. The segment talked about benefits to illegal aliens. They did a good chunk of the segment around an illegal immigrant woman who came from Mexico and moved to Oklahoma to be with family. The woman had a disease and required dialysis, the state of Oklahoma refused her dialysis treatments due to the fact that she was an illegal immingrant so she moved to California. If I'm not mistaken the state of California was on the hook to the tune of a couple hundred thousand a year to keep this woman alive. Mind you a woman who has never paid in to the system..
The state of California spends close to if not more than 1 billion dollars annually on benefits to illegal aliens.
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