View Full Version : Your bug out plan - From City.
Asmodiar
02-16-2011, 12:58
I was recently talking to a few of my buddies about what they would do in a shtf situation... Not zombie... Rather huge natural disaster type
Every one of them said "Grab my bag and head to the mountains"
But the thing is... it's easy to block the mountain roads... or stop up the Eisenhower tunnel... And of course that will happen...
And the biggest problem - the people who already live in the mountains are much better armed and stocked than anything you can carry... and they know the terrain.
...So how does your bug-out plan get around this large problem.
StagLefty
02-16-2011, 13:12
My thought is the last thing I'm doing is leaving my supplies and shelter UNLESS it's my last resort. If anyone thinks the folks in the mountains are going to welcome you with open arms they're crazy. Survival sucks it's not an internet game. JMHO
I have yet to come up with a scenario that would force me out of the house.
newracer
02-16-2011, 13:23
If it is bad enough that I have to leave my house I have relatives in the mountains and I have a couple of vehicles that will get me there on less traveled roads.
thecatsfan
02-16-2011, 13:36
I have yet to come up with a scenario that would force me out of the house.
Don't worry. SHTF will think of one for you!
I always laugh at people who say that.
1) They have no land.
2) You can't grow anything in the mountains.
What is the rule of thumb? For every 1,000' in altitude gain, you lose a full month of growing season? Something like that.
Go hang out above timber line and eat rocks pal.
mcantar18c
02-16-2011, 13:55
Sure as hell ain't staying put. I don't live in a super-overpopulated area, but there's quite a few people here and I want nothing to do with it already, let alone if the shtf.
I'd probably sit tight for a week or so after the incident happens to avoid the initial rush of people and discuss plans with a couple close friends. Then, load up with the guns, ammo, food, fuel, and other supplies, and head out into the plains or the mountains depending on the situation.
Plains are the primary location due to long sightlines and such, and the fact that they're closer/easier to get to. If people themselves are the main threat (gov't turns on us, enemy invades, anarchy takes over and people turn on each other, etc.) then I don't want to be somewhere that's as easy to find, so mountains it is.
I have a few spots in the mountains... 7 actually, between the bottom of CO and the bottom of WY. All very isolated and difficult to find areas that can only be accessed by a rock-filled trail in a lifted Jeep or truck and then some fairly difficult hiking/climbing on top of that. All spots are close to water, have rough terrain, and could be set up pretty defensively taking advantage of the land features.
As far as getting to these spots, I have all of the back roads and trails mapped out that lead to them, and I'd avoid main roads/highways/populated areas.
Also, about the lack of food sources in the mountains... I lived in a cabin up by Mt. Evans for 2 years... I know how to survive on my own in the Rockies.
Can you support a whole family?
gnihcraes
02-16-2011, 15:21
I have to agree with some other posts, I'm staying put for as long as possible. I still believe a significant amount of people will head NSEW out of town and clog things up. Nobody is getting anywhere fast. Google some photos of the katrina stuff, gridlock.
Best option is to move out of town if you have any fair warning and are sure things are going to be worse, again: katrina.
There are some good articles on the Katrina thing, one guy documented all of the happenings, they were prepared, others showed up uninvited and things were just a mess.
I'd have to say I'd head east, if I thought I could get across town in the first place. Mountains pose so many obstacles of limited roads, mountain passes, fuel stops. Even going east from Denver isn't much better, only a few places to stop and get food and fuel.
It all depends on how much time I have to prepare, to choose which vehicle and if I can take the camper with me.
If I have to leave in 30 mins or less, I'm grabbing the 4 BOB's for the family and picking the wife's jeep for speed, fuel economy and off road ability.
If I have an hour, I'm grabbing the big truck and camper and anything I can fit in it.
so many What If's.
Don't worry. SHTF will think of one for you!
Just one of those things I can't really find the enthusiasm to get all worked up about.
Looking at the most likely ones.
Blizzard- Haven't seen one yet that within 72 hours everything was back to normal, or, near normal.
And I made it through the blizzard of '82.
Tornado- I'll go down in the crawlspace until it's over and proceed from there.
Flood- I'll put it this way, If I have to start worrying about the rising water, We should have had the Ark already.
Let's see, that leaves us with the "Red dawn scenario", Nuclear attack and Mob rules. The least likely ones.
Red Dawn- Pretty sure I'm going to be out numbered and out gunned on that one anyway, Might as well go down defending the
the house as opposed to some cave somewhere.
Mob rules- A few well placed shots "should" persuade them to look elsewhere. Or at least look for new leaders.
Nuclear attack- I love this one, I'm about 15 miles as the shockwave travels from the Fed center. which I'm guessing would still rate fairly high on the list of local targets.
So, if we are still talking 7 minutes from launch detection to impact, I might have enough time to tell my tushie good bye.
So, to sum up, I really just can't get that excited about it. Sorry..
thecatsfan
02-16-2011, 15:43
I have to agree with some other posts, I'm staying put for as long as possible. I still believe a significant amount of people will head NSEW out of town and clog things up. Nobody is getting anywhere fast. Google some photos of the katrina stuff, gridlock.
Best option is to move out of town if you have any fair warning and are sure things are going to be worse, again: katrina.
There are some good articles on the Katrina thing, one guy documented all of the happenings, they were prepared, others showed up uninvited and things were just a mess.
I'd have to say I'd head east, if I thought I could get across town in the first place. Mountains pose so many obstacles of limited roads, mountain passes, fuel stops. Even going east from Denver isn't much better, only a few places to stop and get food and fuel.
It all depends on how much time I have to prepare, to choose which vehicle and if I can take the camper with me.
If I have to leave in 30 mins or less, I'm grabbing the 4 BOB's for the family and picking the wife's jeep for speed, fuel economy and off road ability.
If I have an hour, I'm grabbing the big truck and camper and anything I can fit in it.
so many What If's.
I think you said it well. "Stay as long as possible." But to assume you will never have to leave is putting all your eggs in one basket. I don't care where you live, there are viable and very real scenarios that could require you to bug out.
My approach sounds similar to yours except that I live on the edge of a suburban area where from my house, I can be on back roads inside of half a mile. And when I say backroads, I mean rural dirt roads with less than 5 houses per square mile density. I know back roads from my home to WY, NE, or KS, and also the mountains. We have bug out locations with permanent structures and friendlies to meet in both the plains and the hills. I can bug out and have a planned place to stay as far East as MN and as far west as NV. I have other locations much closer to home with close friends or family who are like minded.
I agree that bugging out is not the most attractive option, but there are many reasons why it could become the most survivable option. And what you get to take with you could be as much as a truck and camper, or as little as the BOB in the trunk of your car. No one will get to choose the SHTF scenario that comes. If you are 100% convinced that the dollar will collapse, that doesn't mean an airborne pandemic won't hit first. If you live in a mountain fortress and feel completely safe from SHTF, that doesn't mean there won't be forest fires long after all the fire protection services have ceased to exist.
Best and only option, IMHO, is to plan for the absolute worst and hope it never gets that bad.
thecatsfan
02-16-2011, 15:59
Just one of those things I can't really find the enthusiasm to get all worked up about.
Looking at the most likely ones.
Blizzard- Haven't seen one yet that within 72 hours everything was back to normal, or, near normal.
And I made it through the blizzard of '82.
Tornado- I'll go down in the crawlspace until it's over and proceed from there.
Flood- I'll put it this way, If I have to start worrying about the rising water, We should have had the Ark already.
Let's see, that leaves us with the "Red dawn scenario", Nuclear attack and Mob rules. The least likely ones.
Red Dawn- Pretty sure I'm going to be out numbered and out gunned on that one anyway, Might as well go down defending the
the house as opposed to some cave somewhere.
Mob rules- A few well placed shots "should" persuade them to look elsewhere. Or at least look for new leaders.
Nuclear attack- I love this one, I'm about 15 miles as the shockwave travels from the Fed center. which I'm guessing would still rate fairly high on the list of local targets.
So, if we are still talking 7 minutes from launch detection to impact, I might have enough time to tell my tushie good bye.
So, to sum up, I really just can't get that excited about it. Sorry..
Not get excited about it? I can see that. You can't wait for the sky to fall. And you should base your plans on your beliefs and your situations.
To me it sounds more like you have thought of scenarios where you should leave, but you are weighing the odds of those scenarios as being the least likely. Fair enough . I don't necessarily agree, but that is purely opinion.
Personally, I can foresee many scenarios where being in any form of an urban environment will become a no-win situation.
Tornado. Well, trust me, after you come out of the crawl space, you will be bugging out. Been there done that. Watched an F4 send the top half of my house into the next zip code. What if that F4 hits your house one month after the dollar collapses? Lieklihood is admittedly low but far from unimaginable.
Mob Rules. If that mob is big enough, you will not stop them. If they want what you have, they will take it or burn you out trying. A few well placed shots may only priovide them with a sense of urgency. Kevin Costner may have talked his way out of it. But a real life mob that has no visible source of food except for you and yours will not be as easily discouraged.
So, it's not so much that I disagree with your point of view as I disagree with your singular statement. "I have yet to come up with a scenario that would force me out of the house." The scenario exists. And I think you have thought of it. And if you have not, I still believe that SHTF can very easily create that scenario whether you have thought of it or not.
Personally, I will not risk the eggs in one basket approach, because if the least likely scenario is the one that occurs and all my preparations can't keep my kids alive if I have to leave my home, why bother preparing?
The only one I can even think that might be close is IF, Yellowstone blows. But, I'll say, if it goes "worst case". That might even amount to an exercise in futility anyway.
Oh, as far as the mob goes, I don't think I have to worry about them too much. Much better 'hoods with much better loot than this one. Besides, I may be out looting those anyway. [LOL]
newracer
02-16-2011, 19:02
If Yellowstone goes we won't have to worry about anything, we will be gone.
Also, about the lack of food sources in the mountains... I lived in a cabin up by Mt. Evans for 2 years... I know how to survive on my own in the Rockies.
I can't give anyone too hard a time about their plans either way though. After all, there are really only two plans in the first place. Bug out, or bug in; and likely, everyone is going to end up doing some variation of both in the long run.
Nuclear attack- I love this one, I'm about 15 miles as the shockwave travels from the Fed center. which I'm guessing would still rate fairly high on the list of local targets.
So, if we are still talking 7 minutes from launch detection to impact, I might have enough time to tell my tushie good bye.
I've tried to ask this before, and was provided a link, but it was too long for me to find what I was looking for. So you're saying that a direct, ground level, nuke strike at the Fed center would without a doubt end us (your place and mine?) About how far is "safe" from the initial shock wave of a nuke? How far from the fall out?
gnihcraes
02-16-2011, 22:26
Don't forget massive earthquake, we do live along a huge fault line. I believe in this more than some of the others possibilities.
ChunkyMonkey
02-16-2011, 23:51
Don't forget massive earthquake, we do live along a huge fault line. I believe in this more than some of the others possibilities.
+1
http://dola.colorado.gov/dem/public_information/earthquake.htm
I'd love to own land that had either a cave or a hot spring. Think Cave of the Winds would be easily defend able?
mcantar18c
02-17-2011, 02:58
Also, about the lack of food sources in the mountains... I lived in a cabin up by Mt. Evans for 2 years... I know how to survive on my own in the Rockies.
Can you support a whole family?
My bug out plans were built around myself, my dog, and the possibility of having a female with me. I don't have kids so I'm not really considering that... I realize others do and that's fine, but I have no need to.
thecatsfan
02-18-2011, 11:14
The only truly bad plan is no plan. Everything else is personal choice and a constant balancing act between living life and enjoying today and preparing for what could happen.
But here is some interesting reading about food storage and shortages.
http://woodpilereport.com/
Unfortunately, I see a lot of truth in this report when he gets to the discussion of the Department of Homeland Security. Especially the comment from Survival Blog:
"The existing current national disaster plan calls for the requisition, by force if necessary, of all existing food and drug stocks from outlying, lightly populated, rural areas, for transport to and use in more densely populated urban areas."
Obviously, I do not have access to DHS internal documents, but I truly believe that in a major food shortage event, our already socialist-veering government will view anyone with above average food stores in their home as a hoarder and will take it upon themselves to seize and resitribute that food for the common good - theirs!
And the more government breaks down, the worse it wil be. As federal control degrades, it will occur on a local scale as lower and lower levels of politicians feel more and more empowered without oversight. I don't even consider it a stretch to imagine a scenario where local government officials declare martial law and go house to house seizing all food, weapons, ammo, medicine, and other objects of value. I am not saying it will happen, but I will not be shocked at all if we see it in out lifetimes.
Personally, I am not overly concerned about natural disasters or nuclear events. My biggest concerns are completely internal to our own country.
Oh I plan on going to your house if something happens....
ChunkyMonkey
02-18-2011, 20:28
\the possibility of having a female with me. \.
Now that's a plan.
Beprepared
02-18-2011, 21:05
I've tried to ask this before, and was provided a link, but it was too long for me to find what I was looking for. So you're saying that a direct, ground level, nuke strike at the Fed center would without a doubt end us (your place and mine?) About how far is "safe" from the initial shock wave of a nuke? How far from the fall out?
The condensed version. 30-50 mi.
http://www.ki4u.com/guide.htm
http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/s73p912.htm
nontactical
02-19-2011, 01:56
My plan is elegant in its simplicity; I am surrounded by Mormons. While I may not have a years worth of food like my Morman compadres, almost no one has the stockpile of ammo and weapons that I do ... soooo, I start picking off my neighbors, eating them, and feeding their stockpiles to my family. Hey, you do what you have to do in the post-asteroid world.
This is only partially in gest. Me and mine come before anyone else.
The condensed version. 30-50 mi.
http://www.ki4u.com/guide.htm
http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/s73p912.htm
Thank you.
In my mind only a few SHTF scenarios are likely for the Denver Metro / Colorado Springs areas, and much less likely everywhere else.
I can't imagine any local weather that would hammer the state into anarchy (for any period of time). Snows, floods and tornados are all very local events.
So IMO the best plan is to not live in an urban area. Hopefully you will be away from it all if the SHTF.
Mobat555
02-21-2011, 09:33
I start picking off my neighbors, eating them, and feeding their stockpiles to my family.
You should consider feeding off their stockpiles as well, rather then resort to cannibalism so quickly.
Byte Stryke
02-21-2011, 11:00
You should consider feeding off their stockpiles as well, rather then resort to cannibalism so quickly.
perhaps his plan is to extend the availability of his stockpiles for his family by not eating them himself.
or he could just be a sick F*cker [LOL]
Be a trend-setter - go cannibal early! It'll be fresher and more edible that way.
StagLefty
02-21-2011, 21:33
Be a trend-setter - go cannibal early! It'll be fresher and more edible that way.
This thread is worthless without recipes [ROFL1]
2008f450
02-21-2011, 21:56
Lots of butter,garlic,red pepper.[ROFL1] If I remember right its 5-6 hours over a wood fire on a spit. Insert pole. tie legs and arms together. Cook to desired doneness[ROFL1][ROFL1]
My plan is elegant in its simplicity; I am surrounded by Mormons. While I may not have a years worth of food like my Morman compadres, almost no one has the stockpile of ammo and weapons that I do ... soooo, I start picking off my neighbors, eating them, and feeding their stockpiles to my family. Hey, you do what you have to do in the post-asteroid world.
This is only partially in gest. Me and mine come before anyone else.
this [Beer]
My plan is elegant in its simplicity; I am surrounded by Mormons. While I may not have a years worth of food like my Morman compadres, almost no one has the stockpile of ammo and weapons that I do ... soooo, I start picking off my neighbors, eating them, and feeding their stockpiles to my family. Hey, you do what you have to do in the post-asteroid world.
This is only partially in gest. Me and mine come before anyone else.
Funny thing about the Mormons...they love their guns too. I highly doubt it'll be a 'taking candy from a baby' type of deal.
UberTong
07-06-2011, 16:41
This thread is worthless without recipes [ROFL1]
LOL [ROFL2][ROFL1]
strm_trpr
07-06-2011, 18:50
I have a family cabin in the mountains that I am in the process of stocking up. If there is a disaster and I can get there I will.
MONTROSE1911
07-06-2011, 21:28
I know some counties around here have plans to shut down roads! After Katrina they learned that we can't handle a large amount of people heading our way! And yes, were well armed! After this July 4th weekend I saw what the roads were like heading to the Mountains. I can't think what it would be like in a true disaster. I sympathize for you city people! My family included!
GunsRBadMMMMKay
07-06-2011, 22:29
Unless you have somewhere to go, and the foresight to leave enough before the "event" to get there.....bugging out is not really a viable option IMO. You put yourself out in the open, carrying little supplies. It's definitely a last resort in my book. And heading to the mountains here? I bet winters are nice and easy at 10K+ feet, with your sleeping bag and your AR.
(Anyways, my "bugout" plan is to move out of the city limits- and if I can't move before any kind of "SHTF" scenario, then we'll be buckling down here until the situation is assesed and movement justified. I'm not going to hit the road just to end up out of gas, stuck somewhere with no contacts or supplies - possibly in a hostile environement with my family in tow).
No one read "One Second After"? Sure, come up here to the mountains... we'll welcome EVERY person from down the hill with open arms. Being in Evergreen, we're the closest to the city as "mountains" get, but I'll be very selective of who I allow in/around my neighborhood, and me and 2 other recent veterans have the guns, tactics, gear, and training that we'll probably be the "peace keepers." But if a group of co-ar15 people came up here, I'd invite them to take over my hippie neighbor's house and hunker down, maybe help keep the peace and keep the undesirables out.
I'm probably going to stay put as long as possible at my grandparents house (although they probably won't survive long since they're pretty old), but the house is secluded, has 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, and is on a 1/4mi dirt drive way, nearly perfect to taking shelter.
If I have to leave the relative safety of a house I'm going deeper into the woods, hunting and living off the land, and waiting out for more people to die off from sheer stupidity (give it 3 months or so) and then make my way down and see if I can scavenge what I can.
bellavite1
07-07-2011, 11:17
Just get to the local Wal-Mart: their average customer can feed a family of four for several weeks...[Tooth]
bobbyfairbanks
07-07-2011, 11:34
Yup, right to eating people is very constructive. [ROFL1]
I would have to agree that if your not already there and you think you will make it up to the mountains, good luck. The roads will be closed down. Either from traffic or from the mountain people blocking them. I think the idea of heading out to the plains is pretty good. I think most people will go west so if you have to leave going east might be a good idea.
If something horrible happened I think I would try to stay where I am and group up with my neighbors.
bellavite1
07-07-2011, 11:43
Yup, right to eating people is very constructive. [ROFL1]
I would have to agree that if your not already there and you think you will make it up to the mountains, good luck. The roads will be closed down. Either from traffic or from the mountain people blocking them. I think the idea of heading out to the plains is pretty good. I think most people will go west so if you have to leave going east might be a good idea.
If something horrible happened I think I would try to stay where I am and group up with my neighbors.
Who said anything about being constructive?[Muaha]
bobbyfairbanks
07-07-2011, 11:53
Ah yes you got me. Lets get into a full "digression" I am not even sure that is a word![ROFL1]
If we are going there, then their is a list, well not a list but a few people I would love to smoke out of their homes. Always playing their music way to loud.
my plan is to stay right here in an urban area where i know how to fight and survive . i don't think the the mountain people will be to receptive to a bunch of city folk invading any more than ill be receptive to the suburb people trying to con down town . basically the suburb folks have it the worst .
My house in the mountains has everything I need for many years...I just need to get there so I keep a backpack of essentials in my car to walk out if necessary. As far as anybody attempting to come on my land...[AR15][AR15][AR15][AR15][AR15]...from each family member!
My problem is wildfires...I can't survive them in which case my family takes back country to my sister's ranch on the western slope. I have several carb vehicles including 4x4s.
We keep our camper on property belonging to my wifes family. Perfect place to bug out. RV's, campers, shop, generators, well. One day I mentioned what a good place it was if something happened. Someone else that regularly uses the place said you better get here before me. Needing clarification he told me that he plans on cutting down trees as he drives in making the roads impassable after he enters. WTF. It would suck to leave your house just to find roads impassable.
Leave early or not at all maybe.
Mak the Knife
07-14-2011, 19:32
Why does everyone have to bug out in a SHTF situation? Wouldn't it be wise to learn from the civil unrest in the mid east and contemplate how best to secure your neighborhood? I think that figuring out who out of your bug out buddies has the most defensible and most easily maintained neighborhood might be a good option. Just food for thought that not everything happens overnight, and a few properly placed vehicles and a few properly placed shots should help to convince an unruly mob to mosey on by.
Then again I've got no military or third world experience.
Are you going to displace your buddy's neighbors from his defensible neighborhood so you can bunker down there?
Mak the Knife
07-14-2011, 21:18
Are you going to displace your buddy's neighbors from his defensible neighborhood so you can bunker down there?
I'm not saying that you should displace your neighbors. The incident will most likely evict some of them by the time you get there and the sleeping arrangements at your buddies house may get changed up a bit.
MONTROSE1911
07-15-2011, 07:06
You guys all need to read this book! Especially if you live in the City. It's the best $20 you'll ever spend, trust me! All of my friends have read it and read it over and over!
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=patriots+survival+book&rlz=1I7DLUS_en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6715339751072541387&sa=X&ei=EDsgTsukIqL50gHgudycAw&ved=0CEMQ8wIwAw#
You guys all need to read this book! Especially if you live in the City. It's the best $20 you'll ever spend, trust me! All of my friends have read it and read it over and over!
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=patriots+survival+book&rlz=1I7DLUS_en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6715339751072541387&sa=X&ei=EDsgTsukIqL50gHgudycAw&ved=0CEMQ8wIwAw#
Good read but very tin hatty. There were some pretty cool ideas in the book but the scenario is quite extreme as are the situations they find themselves in.
For me, I'll hopefully be in the mountains already once we find the land we're looking for, but until then we have BOB's ready to go in case we MUST leave our house, but since I cannot load up enough supplies on my back or in my vehicles for more than a few weeks I plan on staying put as long as possible, and if I have to head out then I'll probably head north and east, not west. Everybody and their brother who ever thinks of bugging out picks the mountains, so that is a lot of folks to get through. What's worst is that most people don't know how to survive the mountains and will get desperate fast, and that's one more factor to contend with.
I don't agree that the mountain towns will block their roads, there will be a compassion factor in the first 24-48 hours as well as the fact that nobody is likely to get that organized that fast, the problem will be gridlock. It only takes a couple of accidents or broken down vehicles to block the major arteries into the mountains and then you are on foot and no better off than you were before.
I'll take my Jeep north and east, because I can't drive straight up a mountain but I can drive over nearly any terrain (including yards, fields, whatever) to get out of the city that way and there will be far fewer people bugging out to the rich farming lands of Nebraska or Kansas than in the mountains. I'll find a place that is defensible with folks who are less tactically experienced and need someone like me to help defend their homestead in exchange for food and shelter.
But no matter what it's a challenge, I live in Denver and how hard do you think THAT'S going to be getting out of town?!?!?! The mountains used to be my first choice and I've spend years refining my survival skills for our mountains in particular, but in the end I know it's the toughest choice possible and will likely go elsewhere (maybe circle back to them after initial die offs).
StagLefty
07-15-2011, 11:03
^ My feelings exactly [Beer]
I don't agree that the mountain towns will block their roads, there will be a compassion factor in the first 24-48 hours as well as the fact that nobody is likely to get that organized that fast, the problem will be gridlock. It only takes a couple of accidents or broken down vehicles to block the major arteries into the mountains and then you are on foot and no better off than you were before.
Not too familiar with the Bailey peeps I see.
Our plan is to stop people at the bottom of Crow hill lockem up take there goods keep the wemens for slaves and eat all the rest...[ROFL1]
Everybody and their brother who ever thinks of bugging out picks the mountains
The only place I see that being the case is on gun/survival forums. When I talk with those not within those groups, most don't have any desire to freeze their hind ends off in the mountains or swat mosquitoes endlessly. I had a bit of a 14'er habit last Summer and climbed 22 of them. When it'd come up in conversation back in town, people would look at me with polite sympathy, as if to say "too bad you don't have any friends/hobbies closer to town".
The more I think about it, if an event were to occur, I think you'd see a trickle of folks headed to the mountains (hopefully to a well stocked cabin) and the remaining masses headed either North or South on I-25 or East on I-70. February in the Colorado mountains, unless you have a cabin with a good stash of wood & food, is a very inhospitable place, even with the best outdoor gear and all the skills in the world, it's still cold, windy, and devoid of life for the most part. Many folks that romanticize escaping to the mountains would have a tough go at it in the Summer, much less the Winter. 100' of paracord, a Glock, a 'survival knife' and a fire stick ain't gonna get it done for weeks on end when it's -10* out and blowing 40mph.
Far too often, I get the impression that some people actually want some major disaster to occur. I can only surmise that they have never witnessed and lived through such an event in person. It's not romantic like it is in the movies or some novel.
Having lived through martial law under Marcos, multiple typhoons & hurricanes, several earthquakes that leveled whole areas, Etc., disasters are something that should not be longed for, they are ugly events that ruin peoples lives, including many who have heavily prepared for just such an event.
Prepare - absolutely! Hope for? -not a chance.
The only place I see that being the case is on gun/survival forums. When I talk with those not within those groups, most don't have any desire to freeze their hind ends off in the mountains or swat mosquitoes endlessly.
I think that Ranger is correct. It is the same way on automotive forums. People tend to think that the mountains are less inhabited than the cities (they are correct) and that they'll be room for them and less dirt bags robbing and rioting. Just look at I-70 into the mountains on July 4th and Memorial day weekends, and every weekend of ski season is enough to turn me off from the mountains.
palepainter
07-16-2011, 13:14
I do not see myself needing to go anywhere. I am on a couple acres here. I can pretty much provide food for my family here. I also have the means to protect the resources as well. I can see anyone coming from about 300 yards. I have a network of like minded neighbors that will provide support. There is only two roads into our sparse community. I would be willing and able to help a selected few buddies who live in the population. That has all been worked out if the situation ever happens.
I certainly do not wish any scenario to ever happen, it will put a lot of good people against other good people in a shitty situation. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail, but the entitled mentality will bring casualties and violence.
Our plan is to stop people at the bottom of Crow hill lockem up take there goods keep the wemens for slaves and eat all the rest...[ROFL1]
wow [Coffee]
Ronin13, Put me on your guest list just in case ;)
BushMasterBoy
08-15-2011, 00:57
Go to a quarry or mine. They usually have stockpiled diesel, explosives and heavy equipment to build defensive positions. Muriatic acid and sodium cyanide make hydrogen cyanide gas, like the old gas chamber. You can also find some old prospect adits you can hide or live underground in. Why do you think NORAD is underground, it is a really hard target. I saw generators (4) big as my house today. Plus I know they got loads of gold. Its fairly easy to defend when you have thousand of pounds of high explosives...even M1 Abrams tanks can't take that kind of firepower.
The last place I would go is the mountains of CO, hell if I lived in the mountains of CO I would probably consider bugging out to the city! Every single person I have ever had this conversation with who doesn't have a plan says "I'll go to the mountains" and even if 1 in 10 makes it a week, that's still WAY too many people for a region such as the Western slope at this latitude to support. And I don't care how well defended you are, facing enough un-skilled opponents and they will get lucky, once, especially if you have food/shelter/heat in the mountains. And having all those dumbies running around will just ruin it for those who know what they are doing, can you imagine the number of forest fires, the number of deer kills with a hamburger cut out of them and then left to rot, the number of people crapping in water supplies. NO WAY!
The growing season is a bag of crap, the soil is worse, the trees are turdy pines, the sight-lines for self defense against a skilled adversary don't exist, and every REI hippy with a new shotgun will be desperate and hungry! NO THANKS! I would be better off heading to AZ again!
The only reason I can think of to head for the hills is an invasion-
Personally, I'll stay put and let the Mtn. folk sort out the riff-raff for a while, then I will move if need by, but my guess, if I can keep my head down, the riots, failed medication/health care, and suicides will take care of most of my food needs by finding it left over, not counting what I have. Oh and all the Mormans, mmmm.[Tooth]
Don't forget how Gunnison did in the 20's, the mountains won't be letting people in, and they may be livable now, barely (this is the most crowded western land it seems like!) but they sure wont be. I will stay right here thank you very much!
I have family in all 4 directions the decision on which way to go will depend on the event. My main idea is go early before the highways get gridlocked. My main problem is that none of the family members are preppers that I know of.
as a whole if something goes down it will get ugly no matter how well you are prepped.
My main idea is go early before the highways get gridlocked.
Except if it is an event big enough to merit bugging out, the power will likely be out. That means that your alarm clock will not go off and you'll sleep late and get stuck in traffic.
Except if it is an event big enough to merit bugging out, the power will likely be out. That means that your alarm clock will not go off and you'll sleep late and get stuck in traffic.
Valid point but because of my beer brewing I have a battery operated alarm on my fermentation chamber if it looses power it starts beeping quite aggressively and always wakes me up. EMP during rush hour is the main concern to be honest.
EMP when I'm away from home at all is the my concern. I've got a bag in my truck, but I sure as heck don't look forward to carrying it for the HOURS it would take me to get the 25+ miles home. Hell, it could take more than one day and I don't even have any food. Not to mention I'd have to go get my kid, who is another 5 miles each way in the wrong direction. Instant economic collapse would be a real nightmare.
Prometheus
08-25-2011, 23:15
I have a friend who has 4 bikes locked up through out the city, just so he can get home faster, dont know if its practical but a thought at least.
I already live very rural, so all my family needs to do is hunker down and wait for all the sheeple to kill each other. Should take about a month or two, and we're prepared for much longer. If there's no compelling need to bug out, we won't. If there is and we must move, we'll head to some other prearranged rural property with other like minded and well trained and equipped families. We have it all planned out to a great level of detail.
Bottom line here is have a plan, be prepared, and you'll be better off than 99% of the sheeple who don't.
hollohas
09-01-2011, 11:23
EMP when I'm away from home at all is the my concern. I've got a bag in my truck, but I sure as heck don't look forward to carrying it for the HOURS it would take me to get the 25+ miles home. Hell, it could take more than one day and I don't even have any food. Not to mention I'd have to go get my kid, who is another 5 miles each way in the wrong direction. Instant economic collapse would be a real nightmare.
Agree here 100% Irving. I used to think "I'll just head out to my father-in-law's rural house and land, no problem." I planned with my wife that if things got that bad that fast, we had a meeting point...I wouldn't try to go get her.
But now, I'm a Dad. Will I be able to get to my daughter? That scares the shit out of me.
And even worse, I travel for work out of state darn near every week. It wouldn't take something as bad as an EMP to shutdown flights. We know that from experience. ANY crisis or SHTF event could trigger a shutdown of the skies...
Based on how many days I travel, I have better than a 33% chance of NOT being home on the day things fall apart. How can I protect my daughter if I am in Oregon or Washington with no way home? The answer, I can't and need a new job.
Scanker19
09-02-2011, 22:39
I like the Idea of a fairly wooded area and a plateau or mesa out on the plains. I'd be more worried about other (looters) or the GOV (looters) coming to take what you have. It would be easier to see you on the plains but it would be easy to see them as well. Plenty of antelope and rabbit, fertile soil to grow for the long term. Some areas in eastern NM would be ideal for this purpose. minus the water situation.
This if I have to leave, but i'm almost sure that the GOV would force me to leave, either by evac or threat.
BlasterBob
09-03-2011, 13:31
Well, I live in the mountains already with plenty of wild game readily available and lake water only two or three miles away. Would probably be a really good place in the event of the SHTF situation however since I'm going to be 75 years of age in just a couple months, at my age, I NOW have the SHTF/survival stuff at an extremely low priority. I just want to survive right here on my own property, without a lot of survival preparations, for at least a few more years (given our present shitty economy and world situation).[Tooth]
brokenscout
09-03-2011, 13:42
Well, I live in the mountains already with plenty of wild game readily available and lake water only two or three miles away. Would probably be a really good place in the event of the SHTF situation however since I'm going to be 75 years of age in just a couple months, at my age, I NOW have the SHTF/survival stuff at an extremely low priority. I just want to survive right here on my own property, without a lot of survival preparations, for at least a few more years (given our present shitty economy and world situation).[Tooth]
What he said, had a herd of about 70-80 Elk come by last week. Raise rabbits, have 2 wells. [Beer]
brokenscout
09-03-2011, 13:46
I have 52 acres that borders BLM & State Land 5 miles of I-25 in the mountains that has a well and 2 ponds, i've either been giving GPS Cords to friends and familiy and having them learn where it it is on a map. Plus it is only 18 miles from my home(40 acres in the mountains) taking the back roads
BlasterBob
09-03-2011, 13:52
What he said, had a herd of about 70-80 Elk come by last week. Raise rabbits, have 2 wells. [Beer]
Hey brokenscout, if/when the SHTF does happen (that is IF I'm still above the sod at that time), and I run out of rabbit, squirrel and turkeys, I'll maybe get to harvest one of the elk out of that herd (we can easily share if you will help clean/butcher it).[Tooth]
brokenscout
09-03-2011, 14:17
Hey brokenscout, if/when the SHTF does happen (that is IF I'm still above the sod at that time), and I run out of rabbit, squirrel and turkeys, I'll maybe get to harvest one of the elk out of that herd (we can easily share if you will help clean/butcher it).[Tooth]
I think it will be hard to run out down here, but that sounds like a plan. We still need to get together down here. Jordan is supose to come down.[Beer]
BlasterBob
09-03-2011, 17:39
We still need to get together down here. Jordan is supose to come down.[Beer]
Yes, a little get together would be great!!
Tell Jordan, in the mean time, to get his ass over to the Sertoma CO Springs gun show next weekend. He always seems to bypass my table on the few occasions that I do have a table. My table should be real close to Alex at this upcoming show.. Jordan really doesn't have to buy anything from me - but it is at least an option to get some of my nice stuff and maybe at a bargain price.[ROFL2]
jerrymrc
09-03-2011, 18:03
We can shoot on Bob's private range. [Coffee] Just kidding my friend. [Beer]
BlasterBob
09-03-2011, 19:00
You know Jerry, I have had that range up and running for about 13 or 14 years now and probably have fired less than a few hundred rounds on it.
I believe most of the folks living in the little settlement around me are very gun friendly but I do know of one neighbor with a serious health problem and I sure do not want to ruin his day with a lot of noise (no, make that gunfire "sound").
A tiny little unofficial get together down here in God's Country would be kinda nice and of course we are only about 35-minutes from Whittington for some real shooting. Maybe brokenscout can possibly get access to the Prater (College) range for us potential survivalists to chase the spiders out of the bores?
brokenscout
09-03-2011, 22:03
No one around to worry about.Just don't have time to buld it.[Beer] I am going to go in and find out who is running the Prater range now.
BlasterBob
09-04-2011, 07:59
BS.....The Prater Range............ About ten or twelve years ago there was a very small group of gun guys here in Trinidad who belonged to a little unofficial type gun club. It fizzled out pretty fast since no one really seemed to be interested in holding office or being active in any event. So, it was disbanded. While it was still alive, we got together and redid some of the stuff at the Prater (backstops etc). After the work was accomplished, I never did get back out there to do ANY shooting.
I understand that it has since been redone yet again and is apparently active once more. It is somewhat closer than Whittington but not by very many miles.
BS=brokenscout.
brokenscout
09-04-2011, 08:54
Its only a 2 year program, so good leaders go pretty quick. There is to much open space to shoot around here anyways. And Raton is not to far. I did here its up and running again
There are some very good points in the previous posts. It's very interesting to see the different schools of thought and preferences. IMO, regardless of the area it's going to take banding together to make it.
The mountain idea just really depends on which mountains we're talking about in particular and what the weather is like when you have to bug out. Last winter I was in the Leadville area. If there wasn't any electricity and plenty of stored supplies in place it would be very difficult to survive, especially if you had to provide for an entire family until the thaw. It's not impossible, just not easy if you're not really, really prepared. At one point last winter the actual temperature was -33 and the animals were long gone by that time. Personally, I just can't stand being stuck in a cabin for one whole day, much less all winter.
During the summer the mountains are great! It's absolutely beautiful and full of food. During the winter, not so much. I'd like to think I'm pretty tough, but I don't think I could survive a winter up in that part of the country if I had to provide for my family.
My home is about 1/4 mile from a 21,000 acre lake in South Texas. Of course it's hot during the summer, but the winters are very mild and there is food everywhere for people that know how to go out and get it. There is also a large ranch next to me that has tons of exotics (even buffalo) and we have tons of deer, pigs, turkeys & varmints that live here year round. Right now I can walk outside my front door and shoot a cottontail rabbit. My parents and my brother live within 10 miles from me. We plan to pool our resources together here initially.
My brother and I have hunted and fished together all our lives, so providing won't be too hard. Everyone can take care of themselves. Mom & dad are getting up in the years, but they're still doing well. In fact, mom is 83 and still carries a Smith snubby .357 Mag. :) Even my 11 year old daughter can drive a car, ride a dirtbike, shoot a gun, a bow and fish (this morning she caught more white bass than I did). Both of our wives have CHL's and can shoot rifles and pistols well.
If we have to leave this area we will make our way to the hill country where my dad was raised. There is a huge ranch we've spent a lot of time on. That part of Texas is really, really rough, but it has everything you could ever want. It's the kind of place someone could go to and get lost.
BlasterBob
09-06-2011, 18:25
Outlaw1, sounds like you have a pretty good plan.
aloharover
10-21-2011, 09:11
Don't forget how Gunnison did in the 20's, the mountains won't be letting people in, and they may be livable now, barely (this is the most crowded western land it seems like!) but they sure wont be.
What is the reference to Gunnison in the 20's?
ChunkyMonkey
10-21-2011, 16:39
What is the reference to Gunnison in the 20's?
He might be referring to the spanish influenza epidemic in 1918. Gunnison barricaded all roads into town - barred train stop in town and so on.
Bailey Guns
10-22-2011, 09:18
Personally, I think there are too many "what ifs" to really make a detailed plan. If it were just me, it would be a lot easier.
But, when/if "it" happens:
What if the wife is at work (in Englewood)?
What if I'm at work and unable to get home?
What if communications are completely out?
What if I (or the wife) am injured when "it" happens?
What if roadways are impassable (I have very limited options from home)?
What if I can't get to my family? I will not leave them behind.
What if I can't get to my dogs? They're almost as important to me as human family, for the most part.There are so many other "what ifs" that it's almost impossible to do more than just make general plans, which I've done. House is almost completely capable of being run "off the grid", at least for a short time (2 to 3 months, then gas supplies for generator will be probably be hard to come by). Food stores are in pretty good shape...frozen stuff gets eaten/cooked first. Access to fresh water isn't a problem since we have a well...assuming we stay at home. I'm working on putting the necessary mechanical options in place for a hand-pump on the well.
Defending almost any location without a substantial amount of help is going to be very problematic, no matter how you look at it.
Bottom line, we're potentially in fairly good shape, or fairly bad shape, depending on what happens. But we won't know until we know.
I think the best plan in a worst case/near worst case scenario is to quickly band together with competent people. To me, that's the best way to solve a lot of problems, especially in terms of defense of a location.
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