View Full Version : Trashed shooting range under the gun
March 27, 2006
Trashed shooting range under the gun
By BILL McKEOWN THE GAZETTE
The U.S. Forest Service is running out of options on how to manage the Pike National Forest’s only public shooting range — an eyesore at best and often simply a pigsty.
Years of relying on shooters and volunteers to keep the unmanaged Rampart Range shooting range even halfway tidy has failed, said Frank Landis, a planner for the Pikes Peak Ranger District. That leaves just two options: find someone to operate the range as a concession or close it.
In the past, neither option was palatable for one reason or another.
The range, carved out of a west-facing hillside about 3 miles above Garden of the Gods, lies just yards off Rampart Range Road. The twisty dirt road offers stunning eastern views of Colorado Springs
and the Black Forest as it climbs west into the forest and out onto a high-mountain meadow above Woodland Park.
But the view of the shooting range — revealed by a sharp bend in the road — is something else altogether:
Thousands of paper targets blanket scrub oak trees, pines and both sides of the roadway. Mixed in are the ubiquitous beer cans and bottles, fast food sacks and cups that are dumped during busy weekends.
Appliances such as refrigerators, water heaters and computer monitors are routinely dumped at the range, soon to be pockmarked by a frenzy of bullets. A chicken-wire fence built to catch the trash has been torn down, “fragged” by shooters who hung targets on it, Landis said.
The Forest Service has given up on using signs to give guidance to those who use the range.
“You can’t even sign it,” he said. “Even the boilerplate signs we put up are shot with armor-piercing bullets.”
Landis said the occasional cleanup always reveals the extent of the problem: The agency has filled one or even two 30-yard Dumpsters at one time, with each costing $550 to empty.
Landis doesn’t try to hide his frustration: “The public hasn’t respected it. And I think if the public cannot step forward, the next recourse is to close it.”
But he’s also mindful of the law of unintended consequences; that’s how the Forest Service, in part, ended up with the mess on the bend of the road:
“I don’t know how close we are to (closing it), but we’re not there yet.”
The range and another one, at St. Peter’s Dome on Gold Camp Road, were built in 1990, in part with the help of Fort Carson. The construction came after the Forest Service, with general public support, banned the shooting of firearms along all major roads in the Pike Forest.
After the start of the first Gulf War, the Army post could not make a commitment to maintain the Rampart Range. Then, about 6 years ago, the agency closed the Peter’s Dome range because of its proximity to the city.
The surge of shooters to Rampart and the agency’s lack of money and manpower to actively manage the range led to a predictable expectation by shooters, Landis said: “They (shooters) go to expect a completely unmanaged range — ‘I can blast my old computer monitor or I can dump my washing machine.’”
“That’s obviously not the solution,” he said. “We put effort into construction (of the range), but I don’t think we understood the ramifications of maintenance 15 or 20 years ago.”
Over the years, the agency has tried to clean the range every couple of months with volunteers, although the last trash pickup at the range was before Christmas.
In 2000, the National Rifle Association started a pilot program with the Forest Service and sent out 12,000 mailers in the region, a “call to arms” to help keep the range policed, said NRA spokesman John Robbins. The Virginia-based group flew staff to a meeting in Colorado Springs, where 150 members attended and 50 volunteered outright to help maintain the range.
Landis, though, said such volunteer initiatives have always faded. When it came to “crunch time” for NRA volunteers to clean the range, for example, only 20 people showed up.
He said six or seven groups that have volunteered over the years to clean the range have given up, including one calling itself Friends of the Rampart Range.
Now, he said, he relies on Boy Scouts and Eagle Scouts and the occasional community group when he plans a cleanup.
Landis thinks the only way the range can survive is to operate it as a concession, with a private operator charging users a fee while providing an on-site manager, creating open and closed times.
Though he’s had some interest expressed in the idea when he’s advertised twice for a range concessionaire, no one has bid for the project. He thinks the fear of high liability insurance might be scaring away potential operators.
Robbins of the NRA said the group has a range-protection program that offers range operators technical information, competitive insurance from one private carrier and a technical team that visits ranges to evaluate their operation.
He said that if ranges were operated as businesses, they could be successful, although he said the group has normally worked with either private ranges or those run by state wildlife agencies.
Landis said despite the problems, his agency has been reluctant to just close the range down. Without it, he fears people will simply shoot where they want in the national forest, and the agency does not have the manpower to patrol the forest for illegal shooting.
Landis said the Forest Service will continue to clean up the range, using volunteers, and will try to do those cleanups more frequently.
“But if the problems continue to accelerate like they have the last couple years, we’ll have to consider closing the facility,” he said.
CONTACT THE WRITER: 636-0197 or
bill.mckeown@gazette.com
Chaffee2
03-27-2006, 22:41
The IDIOT shooters strike again. Of all the places I've been around the country this same thing happens over and over again. In the 5 years I have been in Great Falls I know of a least 3 places that have been closed. The morons go and ruin it for the rest of us. I wish I had a solution but the only thing I have seen that works is close all the public shooting areas and enforce the littering and trespassing laws and open private clubs. It sucks but unfortunatly there are a heap of idiots in this world that screw up a lot of stuff for good people.
Anyone else have a solutions?
It is almost impossible to keep cleaning up after the slobs. Our black powder club tried keeping a place to shoot but the more we cleaned the more garbage was left. Finally the land owner posted and shut down his land for shooting.
PhL0aTeR
03-28-2006, 02:21
yeah that was a good article... bad news but good article. got me wondering what all is involved in operating a range.... Anyone wanna write me up a business plan to provide to the forest service and SB lenders? :D
I guess the main thing, like the article said is the liability insurance. Sign as many wavers as ya want, but the second someones toe gets blown off, the operator of the range is liable. Kinda like when someone breaks into your house, cuts himself on broken glass and sues ya.... and wins....
chain.60
03-28-2006, 06:19
yeah that was a good article... bad news but good article. got me wondering what all is involved in operating a range.... Anyone wanna write me up a business plan to provide to the forest service and SB lenders? :D
I guess the main thing, like the article said is the liability insurance. Sign as many wavers as ya want, but the second someones toe gets blown off, the operator of the range is liable. Kinda like when someone breaks into your house, cuts himself on broken glass and sues ya.... and wins....
NOT IF THEY BLEED TO DEATH. :twisted:
Solutions? Can you shoot the IDIOTS that keep doing this?
It's a shame I like shooting at Rampart range. I always pack out more trash than I bring. Maybe they could ticket people dumping trash to cover clean up costs.
If Phloater gets the job I'll apply for the Range officer spot. :P
i whent their with paper targets well seeing all the stuff... i just left the paper targets and shot at all the junk, it was actually quite fun lol seeing what high power rifles do to everyday junk..... dont know why they get all mad either so what if the range is junked i'll go their again... all i see is free targets... i dont even need to bring targets theirs soo many :)
PhL0aTeR
03-30-2006, 08:54
dont know why they get all mad either so what if the range is junked i'll go their again...
youve got to be shitting me....
Asha'man
03-30-2006, 09:58
dont know why they get all mad either so what if the range is junked i'll go their again...
youve got to be shitting me....
+1
You don't see a problem with irresponsible people leaving piles of trash all over the place?
Brian
If you want to see what a rifle will do on your old washing machine, that's fine by me. Just make sure to take it back home with you so you can further admire it on your own property.
Yeah...great....we will end up with a nice established range
With no rapid fire...no loaded guns except when actually shooting
No drawing from a holster
Specific distances...no options
Great..................I am excited
what if we get all the CO shooting organizations together and publicly announce that we do not condone the actions of these POS that feel like it's ok to leave their trash all over the place. Maybe if we gave a reward for the arrest, conviction and subsequent new 'prison girlfriend' of any perps leaving a mess! :evil:
Chaffee2
03-31-2006, 07:48
Well I guess we now know why there is trash all over the place. Because of the slob in the above post who thinks its OK to leave a mess for the rest of us. Don't these fools know that because of them we are losing access to public lands. There must be a bunch of them because there are messes like this all over the country.
Like Gman said if you to shoot up trash go for it, just take it home. You brought it out take it home. What kind of an idiot would leave that type of mess in the forest?
PhL0aTeR
03-31-2006, 09:02
Like Gman said if you to shoot up trash go for it, just take it home. You brought it out take it home. What kind of an idiot would leave that type of mess in the forest?
I would even go so far as to say, what the hell do you need to know what shooting a washer/water heater/TV/PC Monitor (any other peice of garbage) looks/feels like???? Bring targets, shoot targets, carry out what you carry in, if not more.
2ndChildhood
03-31-2006, 09:50
I'm new to shooting, new to CO AR-15. I lean more towards the "preserve natural resources" side of things. It's interesting to see Delphi getting jumped on pretty hard here. I can't tell if he is totally into trashing places, or just doesn't get bothered when others do. Obviously some of our other members get very bothered. Certainly when the loss of a nice place to shoot is on the table I can understand that.
Before I started reading you guys, I had a stereotype of 'gun people' as all having attitudes more like Delphi. That one got busted pretty quick.
Then PhL0aTeR says
"I would even go so far as to say, what the hell do you need to know what shooting a washer/water heater/TV/PC Monitor (any other peice of garbage) looks/feels like???? Bring targets, shoot targets, carry out what you carry in, if not more."
I can agree with that, but I'm wondering - we sure leave the lead out there. It would be pretty darn hard to pick up and pawing around throught the berm would be kicking up lead dust too - yuck.
If you want to see what a rifle will do on your old washing machine, that's fine by me. Just make sure to take it back home with you so you can further admire it on your own property.
[roll]
roman gnome
03-31-2006, 12:54
We went up there this A.M., I've seen it worse and seen it better.
It really needs cleaned up, we took a couple bags of trash out of there.
:evil:
PhL0aTeR
03-31-2006, 16:22
It's interesting to see Delphi getting jumped on pretty hard here. I wouldnt describe it as jumping, merely persuading to take another look... [poke]
Then PhL0aTeR says
"I would even go so far as to say, what the hell do you need to know what shooting a washer/water heater/TV/PC Monitor (any other peice of garbage) looks/feels like???? Bring targets, shoot targets, carry out what you carry in, if not more."
I can agree with that, but I'm wondering - we sure leave the lead out there. It would be pretty darn hard to pick up and pawing around throught the berm would be kicking up lead dust too - yuck.
As far as the lead and whatnot, there is a happy medium between what rampart looks like as a free for all, and what it could look like with responsible people on it. Asthetics is the key to keeping the bad publicity off all the good shooters, when the look of rampart gets us bad publicity.
Personally, i like to go out there when it is really busy with a trashbag and walk up where people are shooting when i see a fairly new box (empty) of the shells they are shooting, and ask them if they are done with that box. sometimes i wait for an answer, sometimes not, but i always pick it up, and put it in my trashbag and walk away leaving them to think about what just happened.
I guess what im trying to say is, we could all bitch about the state of the range, but what can we do to do something about it?
Maybe we can start a new post here, or a poll, but I would be more than willing to take a friday or saturday morning, bring my truck, trailer, and a shitload of heavy duty bags if i get some help in filling those bags. We might even pass a hat around to take a collection for the dump fees. If we got a minimum of 10 people up there, 2 hours or so, would do wonders for that place and i think everyone knows it.
EDIT: Matter of fact, i think Delphi should be the first to volunteer to prove he doesnt think that way, and he meant his comment to be funny. :mrgreen:
PhL0aTeR
03-31-2006, 16:23
We went up there this A.M., I've seen it worse and seen it better.
It really needs cleaned up, we took a couple bags of trash out of there.
:evil:
Good on ya!!!!! Lets coordinate!
Chaffee2
03-31-2006, 16:35
In reply to 2ndChildhood and the lead problem. From what I understand the lead left behind is no big deal because of the weight of the material and lead is natually occuring. I got that from the EPA when a range was being closed down and it needed to be cleaned up. The EPA said all target backers, trenches, backstops, etc. needed to be gone but the lead was OK to stay.
newracer
03-31-2006, 17:53
When a range is closed the amount of lead present and the furure use dictates if the lead would have to be cleaned up or not. For example if houses are to be built where a range was a clean up would almost be mandatory.
Delphi,
The idea is to set the example, maybe, just maybe, if some one sees You packing out trash, maybe they'll pack some out also. If not today, tomorrow. The experiance up at Lefthand canyon to this day still pisses Me off a little, While We were there cleaning up four or five cars pulled up, found out that they would be able to shoot besause We were cleaning, and just left.
I couldn't help but think that they might be some of the Yahoos that were responsible for the mess. All hope was not lost that day though, there were a couple of guys that came up to shoot and stayed to help.
I don't know, frankly I don't think it's that hard to take out what You take in. Unfortunatly though, if the attitudes of some you these people doesn't change {Yes I'm including Yours also} it is going to be to late to do anything about it. Kind of a sad state of affairs.
Next time Your there, pack out some trash, Believe Me, it won't kill You.
I'll go out on a limb here and say if you don't want to clean up after yourself or help the group in doing so, then we don't want you.
(and no, this is not directed at anyone in particular.)
Anybody know when the next organized effort will be at Lefthand canyon? Everytime I've planned to participate the date has been changed due to weather. It's been awhile since I've heard about any cleanup there though. I usually take a few bags with me whenever I go up to shoot and pick up as much trash as I can fit in the trunk of my Saab, which isn't a whole lot. But as everyone who's been there knows, it really doesn't make much of a dent.
I haven't been to the northern spot, but hope to check it out soon, and would be willing to participate in an organized cleanup there also. I'm also volunteering the services of my two oldest sons to help.
:cool:
How the last lefthand cleanup occured is that over on the Co4x4 forum, they were bitching about the cleanup that the wheelers had to do of shooters. With a few days notice, the CO AR15 board had people showing up to the cleanup.
Is the question "When will the 4x4 guys have a cleanup day that we can participate in?".
Maybe we (the shooting community) should be more proactive since it was someone shooting that caused the fire? If someone could get with the forest service and arrange dumpsters like the 4x4 guys have, then the shooting community could invite them? Sadly, right now I cannot volunteer to do this as my work schedule has me travelling around quite a bit and from week to week (sometimes day to day) I don;t know when and where I will be. For example, next weekend will I be in Colorado, Florida, or Germany? I don;t really know yet. I find out tomarrow where I will be this week (and next week).
As long as I am in town, I am game for a cleanup!!
-Dana
Maybe we (the shooting community) should be more proactive since it was someone shooting that caused the fire?
-Dana
Which fire?
If someone could get with the forest service and arrange dumpsters like the 4x4 guys have, then the shooting community could invite them?
-Dana
This just in from KKTV online:
Shooting Range Turning Into A Landfill?
Colorado Springs
Lauri Martin
A rainbow of shotgun shells blankets the ground and this is only the beginning of it. Broken glass, empty boxes and even a pillow are scattered across the Rampart Range Road Shooting Range.
It’s a beautiful view until it's tainted by the trash left behind from shooters. Trash is waist deep in some places and the U.S. Forest Service says the range is turning into a landfill. “That pretty much takes out the beauty of it,” Prosper Biauce, a tourist said.
The litter has been an ongoing issue since the range opened up 16 years ago. Because of that, there are questions about its future. "We need to move toward a more managed facility, with that comes established hours and a possible fee to use the facility," Frank Landis, U.S. Forest Service said. He also said that shutting the range down would be a last resort.
There will be volunteers cleaning up the range on Saturday, April 29th from 9am until 2pm. Volunteers are wanted.
roman gnome
04-07-2006, 15:24
Great news.
I'm going to do my best to be there, anyone else?
Now the question is, How do I get there ?
PhL0aTeR
04-07-2006, 19:30
I'm going to do my best to be there, anyone else?
Now the question is, How do I get there ?
You hitch a ride with me.
PhL0aTeR
04-07-2006, 19:35
listen fellas, we have 2-3 weeks of notice for this.... If you care anything about this range, which i know most do, man up and donate at least an hour to the preservation of the free range. come on out on the 29th, we all know its less like work when more people are helping out, so why dont we all meet up someplace around 8am, meet somewhere on that side of town, have some coffe, meet and greet kinda thing, and caravan up there?
No set time limit for how long ya stay, so lets show some support!
You hitch a ride with me.[/quote]
I now have access to a pick-up, and was planning to take it, so I could haul SOME out with me, if need be.
[usa]
I can bring My truck. Just want to meet at th McD's in WP?
I can bring My truck. Just want to meet at th McD's in WP?
Why WP?
I was under the impression that the Rampart Range Shooting area was just outside of CS.
[usa]
I have no clue where it is Greg, I was just throwing out a suggestion. [poke]
Seriously, Pick a spot to Meet and I'll be there.
PhL0aTeR
04-07-2006, 22:31
id suggest a meeting point between the springs and manitou.... like a safeway parking lot or sumthin... i think theres one out there somewhere.
I've also got a truck with a trailer, but i was wondering if the person putting up this volunteer thing might already have a way of disposal? Is there any contact info so we can get some more info on this?
Frank Landis, U.S. Forest Service might know, he is the FS contact for the artical, another person might be the author of the artical, since they seem to know that volunteers are needed.
On a related matter, do we have any club patches or T-shirts? I know there was talk about that sort of thing at one time, but, I didn't hear the end of it. If we do, it might be a good way to spread the word and show how we feel about the range.
[usa]
I'm working on business cards (slowly getting there)
I'm in for t-shirts and hats.
We should have a banner too. :cool:
2ndChildhood
04-09-2006, 14:32
I'm working on business cards (slowly getting there)
I'm in for t-shirts and hats.
We should have a banner too. :cool:
I was thinking along the same lines 7.
Definitely a banner or maybe a flag we could plant at a shoot.
I'm working on business cards (slowly getting there)
I'm in for t-shirts and hats.
We should have a banner too. :cool:
I was thinking along the same lines 7.
Definitely a banner or maybe a flag we could plant at a shoot.
Ohhh, now I like this Idea... US flag w/ our flag below it.. [beer]
I don't like to shoot there because of the trash and unsafe idiots, but will sure try and make the cleanup day.
Perhaps a new stickied topic just for the cleanup?
RYAN50BMG
04-09-2006, 16:29
I,ll check about a sign this week. My "Dragon Arms Full Auto Shooting Team" sign was only 50-60 bucks. Also, there is a place here that I had the "Rocky Mountain Fifty Caliber Shooting Assn." patches made at and they only cost 2.00$ each, BUT, you must order at least 100. I,d be willing to front the $$$ to get them made (and you guys pay for 'em when you get 'em) if there is enough interest. Ryan
RYAN50BMG
04-09-2006, 16:31
Hey Mods, maybe we could move this sign/patch thing to its own thread. Ryan
roman gnome
04-09-2006, 16:40
We just came from putting a few rounds down there, they had a
Ranger there doing surveys. I asked him if they were gonna supply dumpsters for the 29th he told me yes, so that's great.
There is a good parking lot for Long's Drugs on 31st and Colorado to meet at, then head up the backside of Garden of the Gods right to Rampart Road.you can avoid more hikers and bikers that way, just a thought. Just let us know. :cool:
There is a good parking lot for Long's Drugs on 31st and Colorado to meet at, then head up the backside of Garden of the Gods right to Rampart Road.you can avoid more hikers and bikers that way, just a thought. Just let us know. :cool:
I thought Longs was 8th and Colorado, or is that a Walmart?
Might be easier to find being just off Hwy 25.
[usa]
There is a good parking lot for Long's Drugs on 31st and Colorado to meet at, then head up the backside of Garden of the Gods right to Rampart Road.you can avoid more hikers and bikers that way, just a thought. Just let us know. :cool:
I thought Longs was 8th and Colorado, or is that a Walmart?
Might be easier to find being just off Hwy 25.
[usa]
PhL0aTeR
04-09-2006, 18:31
We just came from putting a few rounds down there, they had a
Ranger there doing surveys. I asked him if they were gonna supply dumpsters for the 29th he told me yes, so that's great.
Thats very good news...... now lets show some support, i guess every other time they have had this opportunity, alot of people have bailed out.
now we just need to nail down a meeting place and time, id like to show up a bit early to get some coffee and meet some of yall. I was thinking the safeway out there, but longs is fine as long as we get an address and arent confused as to whats actually there.... lol
This is great, I've been wanting to participate in a big clean-up for some time. In the summer time I usually go up there shooting about once a month. Each time it seems busier and more junk yard like.
I catch myself thinking that it's only a matter of time before the FS closes this place for good. :cry:
I will also try to bring a couple 15 year olds with me that I've brought up there shooting.
I wonder if the FS would consider leaving one of those big dumpsters in the parking lot for people to throw their trash in? I mean on a continuing basis. People might be a little more willing to clean up their trash if there was some place convenient to put it.
Sure would hate to lose this place.
I wonder if the FS would consider leaving one of those big dumpsters in the parking lot for people to throw their trash in? I mean on a continuing basis. People might be a little more willing to clean up their trash if there was some place convenient to put it.
It would end up being filled with trash from people that are to cheep to pay for their own trash service.
[usa]
... People might be a little more willing to clean up their trash if there was some place convenient to put it....
"convenient" ?
it was convenient enough for them to transport thier crap to the site!
like the age old gun debate.. it's the loser behind the gun thats the problem.
It would end up being filled with trash from people that are to cheep to pay for their own trash service.
[usa]
Yeah, that thought occurred to me right after I posted, or it would be full of bullet holes, which is exactly what we don't need.
Crap. They would have this thing on my birthday. I'm supposed to go over to my folks that day, but I'll have to check on the timing to see if I can work this in.
HunterCO
04-11-2006, 22:02
I can do the 29th I have not been there so will need directions. I am familiar with rampart just not the shooting range you all are talking about.
I would not encourage them to leave a dumpster there it will get shot to hell I gaurentee it. :evil: morons know no bounds.
roman gnome
04-16-2006, 19:55
You guys pick the spot and we'll see you there.
AFAIK, I should be able to make this one, The service change is done anyway. So pick a spot and a time and I'll be there.
Are we to assume that the FS will close the range for the day or at least half a day?
Hey, how come under my screen name it says "paintball shooter"????
That's insulting!
Are we to assume that the FS will close the range for the day or at least half a day?
It's probably a good idea.
[usa]
2ndChildhood
04-16-2006, 22:42
Are we to assume that the FS will close the range for the day or at least half a day?
Hey, how come under my screen name it says "paintball shooter"????
That's insulting!
It could be worse m4, check what's under wallary's name!
Don't worry, you'll get to plinker soon enough [wink]
Hey guys sorry for bieng late to respond to the first post.. just kinda lost this thread in all the other ones.
Just let me calrify, I always pick up after myself, i hate bieng a pig. I am actually a member of the Issak Walton Leuge and go shooting at the Pikes Peak Gun Club, they have a nice organized range, always bring paper targets and always hone my skills on getting nice tight groupings.
But see when i headed out to the rampart range i had targets in hand and when i pulled up, i basically said "WTF" to my buddy in the car.... i have in all honesty never seen so much junk in my entire life.... So we decided to leave the targets in the car... (since we didnt know what to pin em on) and started shooting at stuff. It's very interesting to see what your high power rifle will do to a: PC, car axel(or somthin like that), DVD Player, Construction worker hats(which was especially fun, cause it would jump around), beer kegs, and random other stuff.... All i was sayin is that i didnt mind the junk that much... i didnt contribute to it, i just added more holes to the existing hundreds. Now clean up with my small car, and only one other guy and trashbags... seemed well hopeless.
But i have come to a conclusion, i am not going to that range anymore, and sticking to the PPGC, and the WP meeting spot. Why may you ask, since i "liked" shooting at the junk their? I didnt feel particularly safe. The shooting lines are not all lined up and the short range pistol range, is about 20-30 feet infront of the medium range, and the medium is visisble from the long range shooting area.... even if no one points their gun in your direction you have a chance of getting shot, with all the metal and random stuff the chances of ricochets are very high, and i bet sooner or later somone will die from a ricochet. So i'm not going thier again.
Also cleanup? I dread the thought of that, some wanabee rambo walks up to the firing line not paying attention and starts to shoot at those moving trashbags down the range... ya not exactly the safest thing... Had i wanted to be filled full of lead i wolda joined the marines. hehe
Are we to assume that the FS will close the range for the day or at least half a day?
Hey, how come under my screen name it says "paintball shooter"????
That's insulting!
1. If they are involved, I'm sure it will be closed down for the day. We'll get to see how many yahoos pull up and leave when they find it closed.
2. I tried to make the first couple a little insulting, as a little incentive for more posts. [wink] You can do one of the following;
a} Post more
b} Do the CMP paperwork and get the CMP tag
c} Send Roger a little cash for operating expences and get a Contributer tag.
[abused]
Had i wanted to be filled full of lead i wolda joined the marines. hehe
Not at all funny in any way, shape, or form.
Comin from a guy who grew up in an army family, we made fun of marines all the time... or as we'd call em Jarheads....
Trust me they make fun of army guys all the time.
We call em bullet catchers, they call us whimps it's just how it works
What you have to understand is that both make fun of eachother in good spirit. We may be mean to eachother, but it spurs competition and rivalry, which in tern makes for better soldiers. When the two best compete against eachother they get even better. In the end with all the harsh things the two services say to eachotehr, when a marine and a soldier is on the field fight bad guys, they will work very well together.
ColoradoPacker
04-18-2006, 02:50
I'll try to be there but I wont be much help with a cane and a tank of oxygen. Hope to be feeling a lot better by then...
:oops:
I'll try to be there but I wont be much help with a cane and a tank of oxygen. Hope to be feeling a lot better by then...
:oops:
You take care and get better.
:idea: If your up to it, you can come and give us your company, thats always welcome.
[usa]
Get better, ColoradoPacker!
I'll be able to do morning cleanup on the 29th. I've also never been there before, so can I meet someone and follow them?
PhL0aTeR
04-21-2006, 09:21
I'll try to be there but I wont be much help with a cane and a tank of oxygen. Hope to be feeling a lot better by then...
:oops:
You take care and get better.
:idea: If your up to it, you can come and give us your company, thats always welcome.
[usa]
That or keep us motivated with your cane.... lol
Delphi... im not going to quote anything in particular, but i dont think you are seeing the big picture. This world is full of people who look at other people. when someone sees a person of a particular group, say, a firearm enthusiast... and the said enthusiast is readily emptying the 30 rnd mags from his ak47 at a bunch of garbage.... well put yourself in his shoes and you tell me what he is going to tell the first person when the subject is brought up. That person didnt know that shit wasnt yours, and now we have a stereotype of being a bunch of trigger happy slobs. Its true, that one bad apple ruins the bunch and im not saying you have to clean up after all the bad apples, but every good thing you do counts toward preserving our (your) rights. You can say you didnt bring that stuff out there, but if you shot at it, and it broke, you successfully created more than one peice of garbage that i am going to be cleaning up next weekend. So, thanks a bunch. In closing, and i know this probably sounds harsh, and i am just that way, but nothing im saying is meant to be horribly offensive, perhaps motivational at best. Perception plays a big part in the world we live in, and when we are a part of such a largely disliked group, the dislikers are always looking for excuses, and you plugging away at kegs, pc cases, and whatnot is just the ammunition they need. I do hope you learn some other angles and perhaps see my side of the debate here, and i hope to see you out there next weekend, right next to the rest of us.
Hey PhL0aTeR that is definatly a different way of looking at it... I can see where you come from and am sorry that i didnt before. And maybee some other time i can help clean up a range... maybee the woodland park one if it ever needs it or somthing. But this weekend is bad... i have to work... If somthin like this ever pops up let me know a good while in advance my boss needs at least a 2 week notice for days off.
So, yes i agree and can see where your coming from, i hate it when they lable us like that too. But i'm a college kid that needs money to pay for college, guns and other things :) And i cant afford to just tell my boss, sorry cant come today... gonna go clean a range. Next time somthin like this is schedualed i'll do my best to be there, I'll give ya a raincheck :) Just make sure ya let me know in advance hehe
2ndChildhood
04-22-2006, 07:02
Another piece of this is there are people who will always pick up their trash and those who may or may not and those who generally won't.
If a place is kept clean, and people are seen picking up after themselves, the others will be more likely to follow suit and pick up theirs too.
2C
So, Do We have an "Official" meeting spot for this yet or, do I spend the day driveing around wondering where it is? [abused]
So, Do We have an "Official" meeting spot for this yet or, do I spend the day driveing around wondering where it is? [abused]
Personaly I'm inclined to say meet at the Walmart on 8th street, just sounth of Colorado / hwy 24..
After you get off of hwy 25, turn west on hwy 24 ( colorado ) and at the 1st light, turn south, and IIRC, Walmart is the 1st light south of hwy 24.
Perhaps the NW corner of the parking lot?
[usa]
Sounds good Greg, You have an address by chance? And how about a time. :mrgreen:
I think I've seen a McDonalds turning South at the first light, but I don't remember a Wally-World. Then again, I don't get by there very often.
By letting my fingers do the walking, it appears that the address of the Wal-Mart is 707 S 8th.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=internal&addtohistory=&latitude=J7xh8T5e%2bso%3d&longitude=CxFRYG7wn%2bQJwfq%2bUNa8wg%3d%3d&name=Wal%2dMart%20Supercenter&country=US&address=707%20S%208th%20St&city=Colorado%20Springs&state=CO&zipcode=80905&phone=719%2d633%2d1090&spurl=0&&q=707%20S%208th&qc=Department%20Stores
What time do we meet?
Sounds good Greg, You have an address by chance? And how about a time. :mrgreen:
How about 9:30?
Then give people a half hour before we pull out?
[usa]
PhL0aTeR
04-23-2006, 07:53
wallyworld on 8th at 930.... works for me.
PhL0aTeR
04-23-2006, 07:55
Hey PhL0aTeR that is definatly a different way of looking at it... I can see where you come from and am sorry that i didnt before. And maybee some other time i can help clean up a range... maybee the woodland park one if it ever needs it or somthing. But this weekend is bad... i have to work... If somthin like this ever pops up let me know a good while in advance my boss needs at least a 2 week notice for days off.
So, yes i agree and can see where your coming from, i hate it when they lable us like that too. But i'm a college kid that needs money to pay for college, guns and other things :) And i cant afford to just tell my boss, sorry cant come today... gonna go clean a range. Next time somthin like this is schedualed i'll do my best to be there, I'll give ya a raincheck :) Just make sure ya let me know in advance hehe
There may be hope for you yet!!!! hehe
PS, its ok that you arent attending this one, just send us all a check for picking up stuff on your behalf [roll]
roman gnome
04-23-2006, 09:04
Very cool! We will see you guys there.
I think Walrus-World is the second light heading up 8th St..you can't miss it either way. :cool:
Sorry if I missed it, but,do we need to bring trash bags;or? And don't forget your gloves,you'll need em.
Was up there this past Sunday to light some off. That place looks like a friggen landfill. It's gonna take a monster effort to even make a dent.
But, I'll be there.
Sorry if I missed it, but,do we need to bring trash bags;or? And don't forget your gloves,you'll need em.
It's our understanding that the Forest Service is going to have dumpsters avalable.
[usa]
I'll help, if my schedule alows. What is the date and time, please.
Every time I've helped clean the range its always on a weekday. Forest service usaly brings 4+ trucks, 25ft dumpster and a dozer.
I'll help, if my schedule alows. What is the date and time, please.
Every time I've helped clean the range its always on a weekday. Forest service usaly brings 4+ trucks, 25ft dumpster and a dozer.
SAT APRIL 29th
Meet at the Walmart on 8th street, just sounth of Colorado / Hwy 24..
NW corner of the parking lot.
9:30 AM
[usa]
I'll meet you at the range.
From what I understand most of us, haven't been there before, hence the reasion that we are meeting at walmart.
Who is going to be at walmart to show the rest of us how to get there?
[usa]
PhL0aTeR
04-27-2006, 20:08
From what I understand most of us, haven't been there before, hence the reasion that we are meeting at walmart.
Who is going to be at walmart to show the rest of us how to get there?
[usa]
ill be at the walmart, unfortunately i have to wing it, everytime i go there... usually just follow garden of the gods around till i see the rampart range turnoff, but i know theres a better (faster) way there, because its the way u can go when you exit. I juss never payed any attention to getting there.
roman gnome
04-27-2006, 20:28
We will be at the Wal-Mart also,anybody who wants to follow us is more than welcome.I can get you there fairly painless
(disclaimer)once we get on Rampart Range road all tires, paint and windshield chips are drivers responsibility/(disclaimer) :mrgreen:
Thanks, I may have located a couple of non club people that would be willing to join us on our efforts.
[usa]
HunterCO
04-28-2006, 12:01
Well guys I had plans tomarrow and they fell through so I guess I have no choice but to come help.
So see you all tomarrow. :cool:
Is the weather going to cooperate?
HunterCO
04-28-2006, 13:08
From what I understand it will be cloudy early in the am then the sun comes out high of 52. I guess it should be half way decent.
Everything I've been hearing is, Maybe 52 with showers. I'll check all the weather places.
Is the weather going to cooperate?
Saturday
Decreasing Clouds
Windy and Cool
32 / 58
Makes it warmer than today.
HunterCO
04-28-2006, 13:59
I don't know about any of you but I am going to bring a couple of toys. After the clean up I may shoot a little bit unless it is closed for the entire day. The other factor is if I will feel like it after we are done.
I am going to bring a wheel barrow, rake and a shovel also. My wheel barrow worked great at the Harris Park clean up.
The other factor is if I will feel like it after we are done.
Agreed!
OTOH, since my time is limited, I doubt that it will be open by the time I have to shove off.
[usa]
I still plan on attending, but I won't be free till about 11.
Hunter,
If you bring toys, I'll bring bullets :P
Look like it's going to be a fairly nice day, already 40*.
See everyone at Walmart, or there at the clean up.
Greg, I'm haveing a small household crisis here I don't think I'll be able to make it. I think the refridgerator just commited suicide. :evil:
Not cool.
[roll]
Sorry couldn't resist.
No problem. I had the thought a few min ago, that there ought to be plenty of brass laying around if this place is so trashed. So I'm taking a bucket to toss finds in, anything I should keep a look out for you?
[usa]
Yep, Definatly "Not Cool" looks like their is a new appliance in My future. :roll:
No, nothing I can think of, unless You find something interesting for My collection.
Yep, Definatly "Not Cool" looks like their is a new appliance in My future. :roll:
No, nothing I can think of, unless You find something interesting for My collection.
I was thinking of grabbing just about everything I could find ( that looked in reasionable shape ). Maybe later we can have a brass party, where we traded what we recovered.
Save a 45-70 for me, will ya? [wink]
BTW if you get time later I want to call you, I had a couple of ideas that I want to run by someone. If your up to it, PM your phone# to me.
[usa]
Yea, I have had a .45/70 case in My backpack for about 7 months waiting on You. [abused]
Yea, I have had a .45/70 case in My backpack for about 7 months waiting on You. [abused]
I know, that is why I looking forward to this clean up :roll:
[usa]
I'm planning on bringing a rake and shovel.
...and a toy if there's a little time.
I'm planning on bringing a rake and shovel.
I've planed on gloves, a sledge hammer, and a prybar
From the sounds of things we may have to tear apart some of the larger items.
[usa]
Well, it was an interesting day.
We had visits from channels 5/30 and channel 11.
Both of the large dumpsters were at least 3/4 full.
They didn't have to pull any car out this time, but, there were plenty of car parts.
Didn't have time to do brass, but, most was shotgun hulls and .22 anyway.
The Forest Service guys were happy with what we were able to do, and plan on doing a detail cleaning in june.
Made some new contact's, including a guy here in the springs that does promotional hats T-shirts and the like, I told him about the situation with the t-shirts, and he said that he thought he could do better. I'll be in touch with him in the next week or so.
[usa]
HunterCO
04-29-2006, 20:10
All went well what a figgin nightmare that place was. Then the idiots showed up with bottles they were the ones at the end that sat in the car waiting for us to get done. Forest service guy told them no bottles they did it anyway he was out of tickets and said he would just mail it. :mrgreen:
That place sure attracts a lot of idiots I am sitll in shock over the shotgun range the hulls were ankle deep never seen anything like that in my life. I gave my phone # to forest service they said they would contact me for the next clean up.
PhL0aTeR
04-29-2006, 20:15
sorry didnt stay my full time, had a prior engagement at noon, and before i knew it it was PAST noon!!!! Glad to meet the few that i did get to meet, and hope to meet again, under better circumstances.
Seems like something like that might be organized more often on a regular basis.
roman gnome
04-29-2006, 21:40
Thanks to everyone that showed up and for bustin' yer humps,
I think we put a decent size dent in that beast.
HunterCO we saw your pooch on the news here, she's a star. :P
Did anyone else see those twits just of the road inside GotG, shooting back towards the park?
[usa]
2ndChildhood
04-29-2006, 22:26
Way to go guys!! [usa] [beer] [dancing] [approve]
Did anyone else see those twits just of the road inside GotG, shooting back towards the park?
Sheesh!
shotgun range the hulls were ankle deep
Sheesh!
the idiots showed up with bottles they were the ones at the end that sat in the car waiting for us to get done
Sheesh!
Gee, let's not give the anti's anything to use against us. :roll:
I couldn't understand the "trashed" comment until I saw it for myself. That place was unfreakin'-real. It's a shame because it's such a beautiful location.
The other idiots must have shown up after I left.
HunterCO
04-29-2006, 22:34
HunterCO we saw your pooch on the news here, she's a star. :P
Go figure they pick the better looking one. :P
so you guys actually managed to put a dent in that stuff? last time i was there it was just... horrible.... Does it actually look better now, or is it still pretty trashed? And how did you guys lift some of that heavy stuff?
Thanks Guys, Sounds `a little like LH canyon :roll: Sorry I couldn't make it. At least the Fridge wasn't totally dead, just had to clean the dog fur out of the compressor. :roll:
PhL0aTeR
04-30-2006, 07:46
so you guys actually managed to put a dent in that stuff? last time i was there it was just... horrible.... Does it actually look better now, or is it still pretty trashed? And how did you guys lift some of that heavy stuff?
someone brought a front end loader.... i imagine thats what they used for the heavy stuff.
so you guys actually managed to put a dent in that stuff? last time i was there it was just... horrible.... Does it actually look better now, or is it still pretty trashed? And how did you guys lift some of that heavy stuff?
The worst was probably the shot up stove/ oven, microwaves, large propane tanks ( 100 lb ), and the truck tires.
They were sort of rolled, pushed, or draged into small piles, and then my self and another guy went around with one of the Forest Service trucks putting the piles of stuff into the back of the truck.
Once the truck was full, the truck would pull up next to one of the dumpsters and then we would climb up into the truck and toss the stuff into the dumpster.
There was maybe only 3 or 4 things that we were no able to sling into the truck, and they were left for the tractor ( that has a scoop on the front ).
[usa]
PhL0aTeR
04-30-2006, 08:39
They were sort of rolled, pushed, or draged into small piles, and then my self and another guy went around with one of the Forest Service trucks putting the piles of stuff into the back of the truck.
[usa]
Yeah, we saw you riding around in the nice truck while we were all bent over picking up trash!!! BWAHAHAHAHA
j/k :twisted:
someone brought a front end loader.... i imagine thats what they used for the heavy stuff.
It was a Forest Service machine.
[usa]
Yeah, we saw you riding around in the nice truck while we were all bent over picking up trash!!! BWAHAHAHAHA
j/k :twisted:
Your darn right I was riding around in it, I didn't have the energy to walk back and forth to the dumster after the first load of heavy metal. [abused]
While you guys were picking up one little piece of paper at a time :P
[usa]
Come on Guys, give Greg a break, He's old.
[roll] [abused]
Come on Guys, give Greg a break, He's old.
[roll] [abused]
Yea, and I have the gray in my beard to prove it.
:P [abused] [blackeye] [dead]
Come on Guys, give Greg a break, He's old.
[roll] [abused]
Which Greg you calling old? [poke] I guess I'm getting defensive since I turned 40 yesterday and everybody's giving me crap about getting old.
...and my back is making me feel old today. [train] Since when did they make the ground so much further away from my reach? Are my arms getting shorter?
Which Greg you calling old? [poke] I guess I'm getting defensive since I turned 40 yesterday and everybody's giving me crap about getting old.
...and my back is making me feel old today. [train]
I don't know as it matters, as my B-day was this month as well, and I'm right behind you.
[usa]
Just remember Guys, Your still pups compared to Karl. [wink]
Happy B-Day Gman, [train]
chain.60
04-30-2006, 13:11
:cry: :cry: :cry: is all you young whippersnappers do.
I thought the clean-up went real well. Really surprised at the amount of people that turned out to help. I was only able to stay for a couple hours and left about the time they were starting to clean up the shotgun area.
The 100 yard rifle area looked amazing afterwards.
Whoever the FS contacts about another session, be sure to keep the rest of us in the loop.
roman gnome
04-30-2006, 21:02
Yesterday the place looked great,who knows what it looks like today. [abused]
Gman you should have said something about your B-day.
We could'a had those scouts sing you a tune. :P
Whoever the FS contacts about another session, be sure to keep the rest of us in the loop.
I'm on their list.
They have already said that it will be in June.
[usa]
Please keep me posted also.
Did anyone take any pictures?
Maybe some before and after, and wouldn't mind posting them.
thank you
HunterCO
05-01-2006, 18:42
Did anyone take any pictures?
Maybe some before and after, and wouldn't mind posting them.
thank you
I took my camera for that exact reason and when I got there I got caught up in the clean up and spaced it. :oops:
someone needs to posts some before and after pics.
we also need a hidden cam to catch the perps leaving their crap...
..hunt them down and beat the crap out of 'em~
PhL0aTeR
05-01-2006, 20:25
Did anyone take any pictures?
Maybe some before and after, and wouldn't mind posting them.
thank you
I took my camera for that exact reason and when I got there I got caught up in the clean up and spaced it. :oops:
yeah.... i bro-ught my cam as well.... left it in the truck, :oops:
someone needs to posts some before and after pics.
we also need a hidden cam to catch the perps leaving their crap...
..hunt them down and beat the crap out of 'em~
Like a game cam attached to a tree? Wait they shoot the trees there... :-x
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