View Full Version : 11 year old arrested for stick figures arvada
henpecked
02-22-2011, 12:38
http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-arvada-police-arrest-11yearold-over-inappropriate-stick-figure-drawing-20110221,0,7099823.story
There is a poll..........go to the link and hit it
ARVADA, Colo. -- An 11-year-old Arvada boy was arrested and hauled away in handcuffs for drawing stick figures in school, something his therapist told him to do.
His parents say they understand what he did was inappropriate, but are outraged by the way Arvada Police handled the case. The parents do not want their real names used.
They say "Tim" is being treated for Attention Deficit Disorder and his therapist told him to draw pictures when he got upset, rather than disrupt the class. So that’s what he did.
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Last October, he drew stick figures of himself with a gun, pointed at four other stick figures with the words "teacher must die."
He felt calmer and was throwing the picture away when the teacher saw it and sent him to the principal's office.
The school was aware that the boy was in treatment, determined he was not a threat, notified his parents and sent him back to class. His mother, "Jane" was shocked when Arvada Police showed up at their home later that night.
She says she told her son to cooperate and tell the truth, but was horrified when they told her they were arresting him and then handcuffed him and hauled him away in a patrol car. His mother says she begged police to let her drive her son to the police department and to let her stay with him through the booking process but they refused.
They put him in a cell, took his mug shot and fingerprinted him. He says he thought he was going to jail and would never be able to go home again.
According to the police report, "Tim" explained he made the drawing to release anger and would never hurt teachers or anyone. At first school officials did not want to press charges, but changed their mind when police called them later that night. A juvenile assessment report shows he's never been in legal trouble before and is at low risk to reoffend.
He's charged with a third degree misdemeanor, interfering with staff and students at an educational facility. The system says it's doing what's in the best interest of the child. But Tim's therapist says handcuffing an 11-year-old and putting him in a cell over something like this is "quite an overreaction" and does much more harm than good.
Arvada Police say because Monday was a holiday, they are not able to get hold of all the personnel and reports to make a response, but will be able to respond Tuesday. Tim is on probation and if he completes that successfully, the criminal charges will be dropped. But his parents say it has cost them thousands of dollars so far.
And if they had known that their son’s cooperation would be used as evidence against him, they would have hired a lawyer at the beginning and exercised his right to remain silent.
Yeah I'm sure putting an 11-year old on probation is what is in his best interest.
Poll hit...
If people saw some of the things I draw/did when I was a youngster nowadays... I'd be on death row...
Would they rather he act out?
I, and about 94% of the other respondents thought this was bullshit.....
Yet the libtards will continue to try to brainwash us into thinking this is an appropriate response to drawing a friggin picture...[Rant1]
Crap.... I need a trip to the range....[UZI]
Crap.... I need a trip to the range....[UZI]
OHH!!! I'm calling the cops! You're mad and are going out to kill innocents paper targets!!! Guns KILLL people!!!! (sarcasm off)
What amazes me is that 63 people voted "yes" that he should go to jail for a picture drawing?! Surely this will be thrown out....
newracer
02-22-2011, 12:54
If they would just allow the teachers and other adults to carry firearms he wouldn't be considered a threat.
they are changing the meaning of free speech, one young impressionable mind at a time.
Geology Rocks
02-22-2011, 13:07
Poll hit...
If people saw some of the things I draw/did when I was a youngster nowadays... I'd be on death row...
this. I tell my wife all the time. I drew wars, shootings, bombs going off. everything. Its what boys do. we had a school mural and every kid could draw something on it. I drew a bomber dropping bombs on enemy troops while US troops took cover. yeah.....
joe
Stoooopid. Everyone involved, except the kid.
HE'S A KID!
Limited GM
02-22-2011, 13:21
They would just sheet if they read any of the "Calvin and Hobbs" snowman cartoons. [BooHoo]
newracer
02-22-2011, 13:22
I am not saying it it right but drawing war scenes is a lot different that drawing yourself killing your teacher.
Not trying to bash LEO's, but LEO's wonder why people bash them and then they do this shit.....whatever happened to common sense? Don't cops nowadays know right from wrong? Is that not a requirement anymore?
BushMasterBoy
02-22-2011, 13:26
The moral of the story is you have to protect yourself from the government. If the police are involved, hire a lawyer.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-22-2011, 13:33
I say this and couldn't believe it. What the article I read didn't explain is how they went from dismissing it to the police showing up at his house? Did a teacher or admin rat him out or something?
When did we all get on the crazy bus, I want off? [Bang]
We need to de-elect or fire anyone that had anything to do with this from the teacher, to the principal, to the school board to the sheriff.
At what age do you tell your kids to stop talking to cops? I've been looking for a way to tell my naive wife not to talk to cops or let them in the house. I think I found the perfect story to frame the issue.
Geology Rocks
02-22-2011, 13:47
I am not saying it it right but drawing war scenes is a lot different that drawing yourself killing your teacher.
I agree..this is the only thing that brought that to the next level. I talked with my wife, who is a school teacher. she said if he just drew the drawing with a gun thats fine. However when the kid drew other students and the teacher thats what caused them to bring it to this level. when it involves people the kid has access too it makes it a different situation.
joe
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-22-2011, 13:49
I am not saying it it right but drawing war scenes is a lot different that drawing yourself killing your teacher.
I agree, let's make sure he is repressing his anger till he's taking pics of himself with his Glock wearing a red thong. Should his therapist have told him only to draw nice pictures when was enraged?
And where the hell is that kids art teacher? Those drawings are horrible and show no training what so ever. The composition is all wrong, the colors are rudimentary and where is the depth and context? Public education. Crap, if I'm going to jail, I'm at least putting big assed jugs on the teacher.
ADD, notice he was in treatment for ADD. Never let your kids get labelled with this. They tried to do this with my son, and I had to admit I thought he was actually possesed by a demon [Twist] - but he got better- no drugs or Holy Water involved. Boys are boys. You get them diagnosed with ADD or one of the alphabet soups of modern psycho BS and they become second class citizens, marginalized, pigeonholed and drugged up.
So this kid gets in trouble for drawing some stick figures with guns, when violent images and games are all around us. Brilliant!
I agree..this is the only thing that brought that to the next level. I talked with my wife, who is a school teacher. she said if he just drew the drawing with a gun thats fine. However when the kid drew other students and the teacher thats what caused them to bring it to this level. when it involves people the kid has access too it makes it a different situation.
joe
This
Hauling him away in cuffs is going over board but a kid drawing a shooting involving his teacher requires follow-up. This gets ignored and the kid gets his hands on daddy's gun and kills people; the parents won't get into trouble... everyone who saw the picture would. The kid is in therapy and drawing violent stick figures makes him "feel calmer"? This kid goes to my kid's school and kills people after they saw this picture and hell would be riding along with me to the school. [Mad]
ChunkyMonkey
02-22-2011, 14:02
Yes, because by reading an article and watching news you are qualified to judge this kid. I have done the exact thing when I was young. I liked to blow stuffs up too.
It has been proven over and over again the best intervention on youths' behavior problems are through their parents and family members. This is why most child therapists play distance roll and encourage the parents to do 99% of the work. Scare tactic does not work.
My .02
This guy would have overreacted and hauled him away in cuffs -
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f0bvyZMrZ9k/TTjrIgdvMaI/AAAAAAAAGFE/UppLYR8YaJw/s1600/barney-fife.jpg
This guy would have gave him a ride home and talked to his folks -
http://filmruleto.com/wp-content/uploads/andy_g08548_00861.png
We need more Andys and less Barneys IMO.
StagLefty
02-22-2011, 14:07
If people saw some of the things I draw/did when I was a youngster nowadays... I'd be on death row...
^ This. I guess it's illegal to be a kid nowadays. [Bang]
Yes, because by reading an article and watching news you are qualified to judge this kid. I have done the exact thing when I was young. I liked to blow stuffs up too.
It has been proven over and over again the best intervention on youths' behavior problems are through their parents and family members. This is why most child therapists play distance roll and encourage the parents to do 99% of the work. Scare tactic does not work.
My .02
He was asked to draw his feelings, his feelings were to take a gun and kill teachers. Behavior issues that can be solved by parents are generally caused by those parents in the first place; the crummy hands-off "let the system raise my kids" parenting we see all too often.
Their first reaction was correct; get the story and make sure everyone's kids and the staff are safe with this kid in the school. The follow-up of arresting him was NOT.
Sorry, if I have to choose between being cautious or assuming other people are being good parents... I'll choose caution because I see bad parents every day out in public.
This guy would have overreacted and hauled him away in cuffs -
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f0bvyZMrZ9k/TTjrIgdvMaI/AAAAAAAAGFE/UppLYR8YaJw/s1600/barney-fife.jpg
This guy would have gave him a ride home and talked to his folks -
http://filmruleto.com/wp-content/uploads/andy_g08548_00861.png
We need more Andys and less Barneys IMO.
+100
It's a damn shame common sense is so uncommon...
henpecked
02-22-2011, 14:37
Gee I wonder why 9 news doesnt pick this story up???
Byte Stryke
02-22-2011, 15:10
I think the family should sue.
Hell, The Reyes Family is and I think this family has a better case
huge waste of taxpayers $$ right there.
Kids say and do and draw stupid shit all the time in school.
I would have been in serious trouble for drawings in school.
I used to draw helicopters taking out entire villages (forget what movie it was from), jets blowing stuff up, you know...standard stuff for kids.
I used to draw a top down aerial view of my school.. in a bombsight.
huge waste of taxpayers $$ right there.
Kids say and do and draw stupid shit all the time in school.
I would have been in serious trouble for drawings in school.
I used to draw helicopters taking out entire villages (forget what movie it was from), jets blowing stuff up, you know...standard stuff for kids.
so did I
but I never drew a picture that showed
me---> [AR15] teachers ----> [Help][Help][Help]
If I have to choose between ensuring my kids' safety and bruising the fragile ego of a kid that is already in therapy because he has issues... guess what? Put the ego therapy on the therapist's tab!
getting the police involved was going too far but people need to be careful. When I was a kid I drew that stuff too but kids weren't going to school with guns and propane tanks meaning to slaughter everyone in the building either. There's a lot of people that haven't noticed how much things have changed with the past couple of generations.
jdscott82
02-22-2011, 19:03
I think something needed to be done but not to that extreme. Now who's to say the kid isn't even more pissed and follows through...not thinking rationally because of his condition?
so did I
but I never drew a picture that showed
me---> [AR15] teachers ----> [Help][Help][Help]
If I have to choose between ensuring my kids' safety and bruising the fragile ego of a kid that is already in therapy because he has issues... guess what? Put the ego therapy on the therapist's tab!
getting the police involved was going too far but people need to be careful. When I was a kid I drew that stuff too but kids weren't going to school with guns and propane tanks meaning to slaughter everyone in the building either. There's a lot of people that haven't noticed how much things have changed with the past couple of generations.
good point. it is just disappointing the police had to get involved when the kid was already in therapy.
he was out there getting help, his parents were on top of things, he was following directions of his therapist and yet the system still shit on him.
I'm not a big fan of the ADD label. Personally I think teachers should make lessons more interesting and parents should be more involved with their kids.
Too many parents these days are not parents they want to be 'friends' with their kids. I'm not talking about Victorian era beatings but teaching them common sense, responsibility and respect.
As for the cops, just stupid comes to mind.
I think the family should sue.
Hell, The Reyes Family is and I think this family has a better case
X2
This is an easy open and shut case for the ACLU. I hope the city of Arvada has plenty of money stock piled because I see them forking over a lot of dough for Civil Rights violations.
"third degree misdemeanor, interfering with staff and students at an educational facility"
Since when was drawing a picture interfering with staff at an educational facility?
There must be more to this story. The cops don't seem to be exercising their discretion. The prosecutor seems to be a bit heavy handed. The judge/jury don't seem to understand what freedom of speech means.
There just has to be more to this story. I'm at a total loss. Then again, why do parents let their kids talk to the cops? "
Excuse me officer, my little Johnny will be happy to cooperate as soon as we consult with an attorney who I'm certain will want to be present before you conduct any type of questioning."
"third degree misdemeanor, interfering with staff and students at an educational facility"
Since when was drawing a picture interfering with staff at an educational facility?
There must be more to this story. The cops don't seem to be exercising their discretion. The prosecutor seems to be a bit heavy handed. The judge/jury don't seem to understand what freedom of speech means.
There just has to be more to this story. I'm at a total loss. Then again, why do parents let their kids talk to the cops? "
Excuse me officer, my little Johnny will be happy to cooperate as soon as we consult with an attorney who I'm certain will want to be present before you conduct any type of questioning."
I think there is more to the story as well. that charge just doesn't stick. if so I know my wife could have every kid in her class charged at least once throughout the year of the exact same thing. some kids would be charged multiple times daily.
Geology Rocks
02-22-2011, 20:05
So talked with my wife about this tonight when she got home. Her thoughts are the school district did nothing wrong. IF they let this go they are held responsible if anything happened. So they can either hope nothing goes wrong, or something goes wrong and the school district is sued by the parents for millions. She also said that this would have gone away if the kid didnt draw the teacher and say death to her. Him drawing the teacher and wishing death upon her is where it crossed the line and forced them to take it to this level. They have a job to do, and its to protect the students and the teachers.
joe
spittoon
02-22-2011, 20:52
is this case held by mr story the da in jeffco you know the airsoftgun, trailer stealer ,guy i do not know?? same b.s mo[Rant2]
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-22-2011, 21:58
I would think that any good lawyer would be able to get the drawing thrown out based on therapist-client privelage. He drew it based on his sessions and was getting rid of it.
Had a good talk tonight with the wife about not talking to cops. Worked her thru this story and those examples in the internet/youtube video about not talking to police. I think she is starting to get it.
colocowboy01
02-22-2011, 22:16
No wonder our government is going broke, we allow them to waste our money on stupid things like this. Since the definition of a crime is: the cause of injury to another, was there a crime committed by this boy? No, there was not. He might have broke some dumb rule but he did not commit a crime. The police have better things to do then chasing down stick people perps. Let the police work on getting rid of gang-bangers and other real problems.[Bang]
colocowboy01
02-22-2011, 22:21
Poll hit...
If people saw some of the things I draw/did when I was a youngster nowadays... I'd be on death row...
No doubt. We even used red pencils for a more lifelike effect for our stick people drawings back when I was a kid.
Geology Rocks
02-22-2011, 22:56
Are you guys not reading what I put?
HE CROSSED THE LINE WHEN HE WISHED DEATH UPON THE TEACHER!
Thats it. Its not that he drew stick figures...ITS THAT HE MADE A DEATH THREAT TO THE TEACHER.
You cant do that no matter how old you are. Draw your boss and put death to him and see how far ya get.
joe
Are you guys not reading what I put?
HE CROSSED THE LINE WHEN HE WISHED DEATH UPON THE TEACHER!
Thats it. Its not that he drew stick figures...ITS THAT HE MADE A DEATH THREAT TO THE TEACHER.
You cant do that no matter how old you are. Draw your boss and put death to him and see how far ya get.
joe
obviously you have never seen "Fight Club".
High Altitude
02-22-2011, 23:28
Hauling the kid away in cuffs and putting him in a cell is completely wrong. Of course everyone from the LEOs on up will talk about how they only want to help the kid....... complete BS. Could of been handled much better where they actually would of been helping this kid.
If you don't share your thoughts with someone else, is it really a threat?
theGinsue
02-23-2011, 00:15
Gee I wonder why 9 news doesnt pick this story up???
Fox News (National) covered it today. Watched this over and over today while at work and never once heard that the kid was from Arvada (but I was a bit distracted with actually working, so..).
It's wrong how they handle these sort of things these days. Yes, every male on this site over the age of 30 definitely did this exact same sort of thing when we were this kids age. None of us ever killed anyone.
If they are so concerned about it they should have sent the kid to the school counselors office (like they used to do with us), and let the counselor talk with the kid to determine his intend and motivation. But then again, the school counselors are more often than not just a bunch of liberal hippy idiots who want everyone standing around in a circle, holding hands and singing Kum Ba Yah.
This sickens me.
So, to the poster who asked if it is now illegal to be a kid - the answer is unequivocally YES!
Just saying " I wish you were dead" or "I'd like to kill you" does not by itself constitute a crime. Drawing graphic images of death and killing and including real people that you may know does not constitute a crime.
I'm not blaming the school or the teachers. As it has been pointed out, they have an obligation to everyone who is present on their property. Once the authorities (police, medical or mental health providers) are present, the school can claim they have done their due diligence.
Assessing threat is an inexact and liability prone problem. Police officers can and do commit people who present an imminent threat to themselves or others, to periods of incarceration for mental health observation. I am not a Colorado certified LE, however in my experience, when the police are made aware that a subject is already under the care of a mental health professional, the cops normally try to consult with and work the issue with that provider. If for some reason that option isn't available, a competent family member is often consulted. Unless the person has either committed a violent act or appears to not be in control of themselves, the cops rarely arrest someone.
I don't know what is missing in this story, but there is something missing.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-23-2011, 01:02
Are you guys not reading what I put?
HE CROSSED THE LINE WHEN HE WISHED DEATH UPON THE TEACHER!
Thats it. Its not that he drew stick figures...ITS THAT HE MADE A DEATH THREAT TO THE TEACHER.
You cant do that no matter how old you are. Draw your boss and put death to him and see how far ya get.
joe
If you don't share your thoughts with someone else, is it really a threat?
BINGO
Not saying the kid should be counseled or watched more closely, BUT HE WAS DOING WHAT HIS COUNSELOUR TOLD HIM TO DO.
Just saying " I wish you were dead" or "I'd like to kill you" does not by itself constitute a crime. Drawing graphic images of death and killing and including real people that you may know does not constitute a crime.
People make billions of dollars a year based on story boards not much different than little Timmy's drawing. Tarantino even got to sleep with Mira Sarvino for it.
COemtbuddy
02-23-2011, 01:10
I'm worried about the kid that doesn't draw pictures.
From a medical standpoint, they should of contacted his therapists and asked their options. Remember these pictures were "treatment" for a know and diagnosed condition.
I've said it for years. The second you step on school property you forfeit all your rights.
Are you guys not reading what I put?
HE CROSSED THE LINE WHEN HE WISHED DEATH UPON THE TEACHER!
Thats it. Its not that he drew stick figures...ITS THAT HE MADE A DEATH THREAT TO THE TEACHER.
You cant do that no matter how old you are. Draw your boss and put death to him and see how far ya get.
joe
only a liberal would feel threatened by a picture drawn by a child.
Byte Stryke
02-25-2011, 19:45
So here is my train of thought on this...
Little junior has anger issues and is under therapy from a licensed professional for it.
School interferes with the prescribed therapy and thus is now practicing medicine without a license.
Junior is confused, kills his family and the entire classroom because he is no longer doing his therapy as prescribed.
Should the school district be complicit as an accessory for practicing without a license?
Same is if I went up to a Psychopathic killer and took his anti-psychotic meds from him because we don't allow pills on the property?
Discuss
This story is completely fucked up, and as a parent of kids that have alrealy had "colorful pasts" but came out clean, this really upsets me. There is one basic thing that everyone should look at here, he didn't actually threaten anyone! The teacher stopped him from throwing away a picture that he didn't share with anyone!
(Last October, he drew stick figures of himself with a gun, pointed at four other stick figures with the words “teacher must die.” He felt calmer and was throwing the picture away when the teacher saw it and sent him to the principal’s office.)
Even as adults, we all think bad things about people at one point in time or another. Should we be arrested for it? I can see if he showed the teacher the picture or something, but the kid was tossing it away. The teacher went out of their way to get the picture. I hope the parents see that later on and sue their stupid liberal asses. The kid didn't disturb anything, the teacher did. At most, the teacher should have just put it aside, and told the parents what the kid was drawing, end of story. If a teacher can't handle the mind of a child, they shouldn't be teaching in my opinion.
If you don't share your thoughts with someone else, is it really a threat?
Exactly.
only a liberal would feel threatened by a picture drawn by a child.
Here's my logic:
"chldren" are bringing guns to school and killing people
the kid is in therapy and drew a picture of him killing a teacher
if he was OK he wouldn't be in therapy, let alone drawing pictures of him killing a teacher (this isn't tanks, planes, war scenes, cowboys and indians, etc like normal kids draw)As someone with kids in school I would hope this wouldn't just be set aside and ignored. Follow-up and make sure everyone (including MY kids) are safe with him and his state of mind. Arresting him was a stupid move but ignoring it entirely would have been idiotic. No one would argue that point if he showed up the next day to shoot the classroom up but apprently people have to die before behavior like this seems abnormal. I expect the staff at the school to protect my family while they are under their care and I see nothing wrong with checking on the status of this kid's brain if he draws a murder scene with specific people in it.
Arrest - no
Check for safety sake - yes
ChunkyMonkey
02-25-2011, 23:21
We needs to report these libtards at Wisconsin protest who specifically have picture of Gov Walker w/ Bulleye.. head chopped off...etc etc.. moreover the cops should also arrest these libtard twitters who specifically make dead threat on the Governor.
I remember when I was in Junior High a teacher thought I was cheating on a test (I was not) and failed me on it. I remember going home and wihsing he would die. The next day we came back to school and he had died of a heart attack. I didn't make any claims that I had caused it so I was never arrested! For quite a while though, I really thought I had killed him until I realized I couldn't make a wish come true for the most popular girl in school.
Byte Stryke
02-26-2011, 07:02
Here's my logic:
"chldren" are bringing guns to school and killing people
the kid used his therapy and drew a picture as his DOCTOR told him to do
if he was OK he wouldn't be in therapy, let alone drawing pictures of him killing a teacher (this isn't tanks, planes, war scenes, cowboys and indians, etc like normal kids draw)As someone with kids in school I would hope this wouldn't just be set aside and ignored. Follow-up and make sure everyone (including MY kids) are safe with him and his state of mind. Arresting him was a stupid move but ignoring it entirely would have been idiotic. No one would argue that point if he showed up the next day to shoot the classroom up but apprently people have to die before behavior like this seems abnormal. I expect the staff at the school to protect my family while they are under their care and I see nothing wrong with checking on the status of this kid's brain if he draws a murder scene with specific people in it.
Arrest - no
Check for safety sake - yes
Fixed it for you.
with so many teachers crying about how we are forcing them to raise our children what makes them now qualified as medical professionals?
He was under the care of a mental health care professional AND THEY KNEW THIS.
They unlawfully interfered with his non-violent care. He was expressing his emotions in a non-violent manner.
Just because I paint a picture of the holocaust doesn't make me Adolf Hitler.
If it were you or me we would be behind bars for unlawful practice.
They probably set his care back 5-10 years
Fixed it for you.
with so many teachers crying about how we are forcing them to raise our children what makes them now qualified as medical professionals?
He was under the care of a mental health care professional AND THEY KNEW THIS.
They unlawfully interfered with his non-violent care. He was expressing his emotions in a non-violent manner.
Just because I paint a picture of the holocaust doesn't make me Adolf Hitler.
If it were you or me we would be behind bars for unlawful practice.
They probably set his care back 5-10 years
No, you didn't fix it for me... not even close. It wasn't found out until they rightfully checked on the status of the kid that he was told to do this and that it was therapy and the specifics of his therapy weren't clear until they checked.
The police arresting him was done AFTER they checked on the status of the kid, which is the part I do not agree with.
If a kid drawing a murder scene doesn't raise a red flag then there's something wrong. My dad was a cop and for 10 years he kept having to bring the same guy to the nut house over and over again because he would go off his meds. He kept telling the docs that the guy was "going to kill someone some day" but they kept dismissing it because they didn't see the same warning signs my dad did, they called him "mischevious but harmless".
Well, he did kill someone; my dad after an 18 hour standoff. He was ordered to get the guy out of the basement alive because he was "mentally ill". 18 months later ths guy was back on the street following women around. Society is falling because we are so F'n politically correct and tollerant of the bad things and so intollerant of the good things; we've made so many laws to protect the nuts and criminals but so few to protect the rest of us.
So, if a kid draws a picture of himself with a gun shooting a teacher and they check on the mental status of the kid... I DON'T CARE IF PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH IT: it was the right thing to do. If the brain docs can miss the warning signs in the guy that killed my dad (an entire FACILITY full of them), what chances do they have with a kid that draws murder scenes to make himself feel better?
Byte Stryke
02-27-2011, 10:35
No, you didn't fix it for me... not even close. It wasn't found out until they rightfully checked on the status of the kid that he was told to do this and that it was therapy and the specifics of his therapy weren't clear until they checked.
The police arresting him was done AFTER they checked on the status of the kid, which is the part I do not agree with.
If a kid drawing a murder scene doesn't raise a red flag then there's something wrong. My dad was a cop and for 10 years he kept having to bring the same guy to the nut house over and over again because he would go off his meds. He kept telling the docs that the guy was "going to kill someone some day" but they kept dismissing it because they didn't see the same warning signs my dad did, they called him "mischevious but harmless".
Well, he did kill someone; my dad after an 18 hour standoff. He was ordered to get the guy out of the basement alive because he was "mentally ill". 18 months later ths guy was back on the street following women around. Society is falling because we are so F'n politically correct and tollerant of the bad things and so intollerant of the good things; we've made so many laws to protect the nuts and criminals but so few to protect the rest of us.
So, if a kid draws a picture of himself with a gun shooting a teacher and they check on the mental status of the kid... I DON'T CARE IF PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH IT: it was the right thing to do. If the brain docs can miss the warning signs in the guy that killed my dad (an entire FACILITY full of them), what chances do they have with a kid that draws murder scenes to make himself feel better?
OK So you think we have to send everyone that has been angry at their teacher to Prison?
What about Putting down Kids that scream "I wish you were dead!"
Lets strap them to a chair and throw the switch?
I am assuming that the MAN your father had concerns about had a long history and was being Medicated in a state institution. this CHILD has no record and was under personal care and meds weren't required. Not to mention he has allot less means to carry out such a fantasy.
But as you are so biased against such a situation. I believe there is no way to discuss this with you.
I am sorry to hear about your Father.
Byte you are very clearly missing the point of his posts. Try reading the first one you quoted again.
They would just sheet if they read any of the "Calvin and Hobbs" snowman cartoons. [BooHoo]
F**k yeah! Calvin and Hobbs would be banned now-a-days for excessive and obscene violence, misogyny (Calvin picking on Suzie), and they'd find some way to throw bestiality and racism into the mix....
I really despise politically correct people...
Byte Stryke
03-04-2011, 11:51
Byte you are very clearly missing the point of his posts. Try reading the first one you quoted again.
No Im Not.
he didn't HAVE a gun, there was no danger, it was a child drawing a picture of how he felt as directed by his doctor.
it was not a threat, it was an expression of his emotion.
he did as an adult told him to do.
you are the ones not getting the point
its like me saying I am going to maroon you on Mars in a Puptent.
without the means it is not a viable threat.
If I am drawing how I feel as directed by a physician, its therapy.
and if I am writing a sci-fi story its an imaginative expression.
You must not have read Boosted's post. He said that he agreed that the kid shouldn't have been arrested, but that it should have been investigated further. No one knows if he has access to a gun or not until they look into it. I have to agree. If a teacher finds a kid drawing pictures depicting him shooting her, then she needs to investigate and find out what the deal is.
So far, everyone in this thread is in full agreement that going to the kid's house, especially AFTER they already looked into it, was way over played and shouldn't have been done.
http://www.aircapitaldropzone.com/calvin/Chicken.gif
No Im Not.
he didn't HAVE a gun, there was no danger, it was a child drawing a picture of how he felt as directed by his doctor.
it was not a threat, it was an expression of his emotion.
he did as an adult told him to do.
you are the ones not getting the point
its like me saying I am going to maroon you on Mars in a Puptent.
without the means it is not a viable threat.
If I am drawing how I feel as directed by a physician, its therapy.
and if I am writing a sci-fi story its an imaginative expression.
no, we get it. You don't think there is a problem until someone dies.
[Ignore]
You keep talking about how he was doing as an adult told him, that this wasn't a threat and he didn't have a gun but all of those facts are HINDSIGHT AFTER THEY CHECKED INTO IT. FFS... You wouldn't be defending him if he shot people or they found a gun cache in his bedroom but because they rightfully checked on the mental status of the kid and found nothing, we should go back in time and do nothing. lol
By the way, no I'm not biased against the mentally ill one bit (although you are apparently a master at reading minds); they can't be held responsible for their actions any more than I can for hitting someone while coming out of anesthesia... what I AM biased against is the phychiatry field being unable to figure out which ones are a danger and which ones are not until someone dies and not having a system for making sure the dangerous ones stay on their meds.
http://www.aircapitaldropzone.com/calvin/Chicken.gif
the cartoonist is 52 years old and those aren't people with names over their heads. he also isn't in therapy that I know of
I'll leave the thread as-is. Can't change minds on this subject any more than you can show someone who is blind at birth what the color blue looks like.
Suffice it to say that is it better to be sure than to allow your loved ones to get hurt or killed. To each their own, we can choose to ignore obvious signs of instability and live with the guilt that we had knowledge that could have kept our loved ones safe or we can do a little research and see if it is an issue or not.
Those that argue that his pictures were normal (without benefit of knowing why he was doing it AFTER the fact) I say, in my entire childhood I never drew or saw someone else draw a murder scene let alone one with specific people shown in it.
I think arresting him was absolutely wrong but checking to make sure he wasn't a threat was absolutely right. If you want to blame someone, blame the parents for not notifying the teachers that this was his therapy method.
...Those that argue that his pictures were normal..I say, in my entire childhood I never drew or saw someone else draw a murder scene let alone one with specific people shown in it.
Never never? Geesh, I would definitely be on death row if I was a kid now a days, lol. I remember showing my drawings to the teacher and saying, "See Missus R, you making me mad!!" HAHA My how times have changed... and I'm a young one.
[UZI]
Byte Stryke
03-04-2011, 14:56
no, we get it. You don't think there is a problem until someone dies.
[Ignore]
You keep talking about how he was doing as an adult told him, that this wasn't a threat and he didn't have a gun but all of those facts are HINDSIGHT AFTER THEY CHECKED INTO IT. FFS... You wouldn't be defending him if he shot people or they found a gun cache in his bedroom but because they rightfully checked on the mental status of the kid and found nothing, we should go back in time and do nothing. lol
By the way, no I'm not biased against the mentally ill one bit (although you are apparently a master at reading minds); they can't be held responsible for their actions any more than I can for hitting someone while coming out of anesthesia... what I AM biased against is the psychiatry field being unable to figure out which ones are a danger and which ones are not until someone dies and not having a system for making sure the dangerous ones stay on their meds.
Principle: Johnny, why did you draw this picture?
Jonny: Because Im Mad at Mr Teacher
Principle: why would you draw a picture like this?
Jonny: My Doctor told me too
Principle:do you have a gun?
Jonny: No
Principle: Call Johnny's Mother and Father and get me the number to This Doctor.
TADA!
Now... it wont cost the family thousands in Legal fees or the state Hundreds of thousands better spent on common sense projects like "Educator Training."
Instead of vilifying Kids for being Kids, we need to exercise discretion and common sense instead of leaping to a worst case scenario and pulling knee-jerk reactions.
I know, both very alien ideas in this day and age.
Maybe I Do have it wrong,
Maybe I Should have the old lady that accidentally bumped into me yesterday with her car door Arrested, her Grandchild taken into custody with CPS, charged the reckless old lady with attempted vehicular manslaughter and Impound her car. After all she did strike me with a portion of her motor vehicle...
[Shake]
Nope... used common sense, everyone went home happy.
:D
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