View Full Version : Sons of Guns using UTG?
thrashdady
02-23-2011, 21:56
I thought I saw UTG products on the wall behind the guys designing the automated turret gun??? I'm sure UTG products are just fine. Maybe I'm an AR snob, but aren't these guys suppose to be designing the most advances weapons??? I thought I noticed UTG rails on some of there weapons, but thought it was something else... [Pepsi]
Troublco
02-23-2011, 22:30
I thought I saw the same thing, probably on the same gun. UTG is OK, but that's about all. I'd have thought they'd be using higher dollar stuff on their guns. Hm...
thrashdady
02-23-2011, 23:16
Me too, WTF
I thought I saw the same thing, probably on the same gun. UTG is OK, but that's about all. I'd have thought they'd be using higher dollar stuff on their guns. Hm...
Can't say tha I have seen it other than the commercials. But, going off the "reality t.v." model, My guess is that they aren't the best or the brightest, but, the most "colorful".
Can't say tha I have seen it other than the commercials. But, going off the "reality t.v." model, My guess is that they aren't the best or the brightest, but, the most "colorful".
Yeah I mean most gun shop facilities are more refined and display there items in well organized order etc.
Where else can you find real rednecks and snaggle tooth smart asses that make the show "entertaining". (reality TV) for the people who aren't in the know.
i don't have any utg products, but theyre functional. some people only need functional. why waste and extra 200-300 dollars if you really don't need it
BPTactical
02-24-2011, 09:49
Your eyes weren't deceiving you- cheap junk hanging on the pegboard. But I could understand whittling on that crap as opposed to DD or similar decent stuff.
So I take it none of the Katana orders are coming from you guys?
ghettodub
02-24-2011, 09:54
meh, it's a TV show for entertainment. As long as the show is somewhat entertaining, I don't care
Byte Stryke
02-24-2011, 10:36
I thought I saw UTG products on the wall behind the guys designing the automated turret gun??? I'm sure UTG products are just fine. Maybe I'm an AR snob, but aren't these guys suppose to be designing the most advances weapons??? I thought I noticed UTG rails on some of there weapons, but thought it was something else... [Pepsi]
you are absolutely correct sir.
You are an AR Snob.
[LOL]
thrashdady
02-24-2011, 10:49
I under stand using a UTG to hack up at first but then on to better things. Especially how much they charge for the weapons on the website.
Byte, I think you are right. I have a problem....
akguy1985
02-24-2011, 11:14
I'm not a big fan of UTG, their shit products are far from professional grade. But they do have their uses, And I've seen them modified and used on some pretty clever setups. UTG probably paid that shop a lot of money for those guys to advertise for them, It would be nice to have UTG backing you, imagine the custom rails you could have made for your guns.
thrashdady
02-24-2011, 11:22
Amen, But could you imagine Daniel Defense, or Larue backing you???
I'm not sure but it looks like they hack up most of there own rails, I might be off, but they love those Dremels. Yah, like I said if you want to cut it up, they are cheap, but after the first prototype move on to a quality product.
Just my Abrahams.
I'm not a big fan of UTG, their shit products are far from professional grade. But they do have their uses, And I've seen them modified and used on some pretty clever setups. UTG probably paid that shop a lot of money for those guys to advertise for them, It would be nice to have UTG backing you, imagine the custom rails you could have made for your guns.
I just started watching this show On Demand, it's kind of interesting what they do and I like the owner, he seems pretty down to earth.
I will have to admit, I have UTG rail guards on my rifle. I recieved them from my bargain buying friend to replace my knight's ladder type, and they work perfectly fine, just have the UTG stamp on them. I'm not going to go out and pick up a rail system from them, but, some of their stuff might be ok. I am not a snob by any means when it comes to my AR for the most part, as with most other high end things, after you start making it up the price bracket you start paying for just the name on a lot of items, not all, but a lot.
Oh ya, this was about Son's of Gun's, um, that show still sucks...
I'm not sure if I like Sons of Guns yet. Some of their projects are interesting, like when they rebuilt the flame thrower for the Medal of Honor winner, but others seem utterly pointless and dumb. And considering the prices Red Jacket charges for their customised rifles, I'd hope they're not using UTG parts in their finished products!
Wow I didn't know there were so many haters on this forum.
Why hate on fellow gun enthusiasts... even if they are "colorful people".
Pure fail. I'm disappointed.
And UTG products work just fine.
How does the saying go? A fool and his money are soon parted.
The guys who sell these "high dollar items" know there is one born every minute. LMAO[ROFL1]
Wow I didn't know there were so many haters on this forum.
Why hate on fellow gun enthusiasts... even if they are "colorful people".
Pure fail. I'm disappointed.
And UTG products work just fine.
How does the saying go? A fool and his money are soon parted.
The guys who sell these "high dollar items" know there is one born every minute. LMAO[ROFL1]
While I agree not everyone needs high dollar accessories, are you really saying that UTG products are in the same league as Larue, DD, etc? I have DD rails and Aimpoints on my 5.56 ARs, that doesn't make me a fool. I want my go to gear to perform. Just as having a fake aimpoint and a lesser MI rail on my .22 plinker doesn't make me a fool either. Every price point/quality level has its proper applications. A one size fits all mentality is what makes a fool.
Nothing wrong with UTG stuff, but it is lesser quality gear. I think most are just surprised that a custom builder of high-end AKs would be using UTG gear.
Byte Stryke
02-24-2011, 15:51
While I agree not everyone needs high dollar accessories, are you really saying that UTG products are in the same league as Larue, DD, etc? I have DD rails and Aimpoints on my 5.56 ARs, that doesn't make me a fool. I want my go to gear to perform. Just as having a fake aimpoint and a lesser MI rail on my .22 plinker doesn't make me a fool either. Every price point/quality level has its proper applications. A one size fits all mentality is what makes a fool.
Nothing wrong with UTG stuff, but it is lesser quality gear. I think most are just surprised that a custom builder of high-end AKs would be using UTG gear.
Lesseee here
UTG Rail...
are the rails the right size? yup
does it fit the rifle? Yup
Made of Aluminum, yupo
color of your choice, yuppers to that too
seriously, its not like its a BCG.
if someone wants to plant a UTG rail or optic on their weapon, they are the one that will have to finance it as well as rely on it.
to be honest, after seeing some of their stuff on my sons weapons, they aren't a bad Manufacturer.
Edit: I would love to show some of the snobs my son's BCM AR with the UTG rails!
[LOL]
ghettodub
02-24-2011, 16:07
I'm with Byte here. Like with anything: guns, car parts, TVs: a lot of time, you're just paying for a name...
Occasionally, there is a difference, but it's getting a little more rare...
thrashdady
02-24-2011, 16:08
Lesseee here
UTG Rail...
are the rails the right size? yup
does it fit the rifle? Yup
Made of Aluminum, yupo
color of your choice, yuppers to that too
seriously, its not like its a BCG.
if someone wants to plant a UTG rail or optic on their weapon, they are the one that will have to finance it as well as rely on it.
to be honest, after seeing some of their stuff on my sons weapons, they aren't a bad Manufacturer.
Edit: I would love to show some of the snobs my son's BCM AR with the UTG rails!
[LOL]
It just got personal!!!! [ROFL1]
Lesseee here
UTG Rail...
are the rails the right size? yup
does it fit the rifle? Yup
Made of Aluminum, yupo
color of your choice, yuppers to that too
seriously, its not like its a BCG.
if someone wants to plant a UTG rail or optic on their weapon, they are the one that will have to finance it as well as rely on it.
to be honest, after seeing some of their stuff on my sons weapons, they aren't a bad Manufacturer.
Edit: I would love to show some of the snobs my son's BCM AR with the UTG rails!
[LOL]
Did I say people who use UTG stuff were Lesseees? No. I said every quality level and price point have their purpose. UTG stuff is fine for a plinker or range gun, or if that's all you're willing to pay, but there's a reason we don't see UTG rails on issued M4s. They aren't made to take that kind of abuse. Not all aluminium alloys are created equal. The difference between the weight and toughness of my MI and DD rails is noticeable. They aren't the same but I like both because each serves its intended purpose well.
ShooterJM
02-24-2011, 17:30
Some companies charge for a name some don't. Just because KAC won the RAS contract doesn't mean they have the best performance or the best price or even the best price/performance mix. It just means they were awarded the contract.
Byte Stryke
02-24-2011, 17:42
Did I say people who use UTG stuff were Lesseees? No. I said every quality level and price point have their purpose. UTG stuff is fine for a plinker or range gun, or if that's all you're willing to pay, but there's a reason we don't see UTG rails on issued M4s. They aren't made to take that kind of abuse. Not all aluminium alloys are created equal. The difference between the weight and toughness of my MI and DD rails is noticeable. They aren't the same but I like both because each serves its intended purpose well.
Lemme guess, its not Milspec and Aircraft Grade Aluminum (http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13128)?
http://www.leapers.com/prod_detail.php?mitem=Mounting%20Systems&itemno=MTU001
Seriously...
Its even made in the U.S.
so you can't use the "Chinese Crap" argument.
As far as the "Its why they aren't issued on M4s" argument, Really?
When was the last time you saw Bushmasters issued from an armory?
That argument is crap. How about its because they weren't awarded the contract to build the cheapest part for the cheapest cost.
I Served, believe me when I say quality has shit to do with why its issued on a weapon.
Just admit, it's all a matter of preference at most levels, The rest is snobbery.
:D
[LOL]
Wow I didn't know there were so many haters on this forum.
Why hate on fellow gun enthusiasts... even if they are "colorful people".
Pure fail. I'm disappointed.
And UTG products work just fine.
How does the saying go? A fool and his money are soon parted.
The guys who sell these "high dollar items" know there is one born every minute. LMAO[ROFL1]
Oh, other than the commercials, I have never seen the show. So, I really have no opinion one way or the other.
And yes, A fool and his money are soon parted.
Heck, I feel like I would draw more hate around here. Out of the two I currently have up and running, the only Rail I have is the one with the flat top upper.[Tooth]
leatherneck448
02-24-2011, 18:01
the only part that i caught in the recent episodes was a DD 1.5 fixed rear sight they had on all the "katanas"
thrashdady
02-24-2011, 18:21
I could paint a turd ad make it "look" good, but it's still a turd.
You can't compare a POF rail or Vltor, DD omega, Knights RAS or any good quality smooth, add a rail system to a Leaper, or UTG.
My comment was not about the difference between UTG and other Rail systems. It was that you would think that company as TACTACOOL as Red Jacket, and charged as much for there weapon systems. Would use parts other than UTG.
[Bang][Bang][Bang]
Lemme guess, its not Milspec and Aircraft Grade Aluminum (http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13128)?
http://www.leapers.com/prod_detail.php?mitem=Mounting%20Systems&itemno=MTU001
Seriously...
Its even made in the U.S.
so you can't use the "Chinese Crap" argument.
As far as the "Its why they aren't issued on M4s" argument, Really?
When was the last time you saw Bushmasters issued from an armory?
That argument is crap. How about its because they weren't awarded the contract to build the cheapest part for the cheapest cost.
I Served, believe me when I say quality has shit to do with why its issued on a weapon.
Just admit, it's all a matter of preference at most levels, The rest is snobbery.
:D
[LOL]
Sigh.
Why are some so extreme on here? Where did I ever mention aircraft grade aluminum or milspec marketing speak? Pretty sure I didn't. And it doesn't matter how cheap (money wise) someone makes something for the govt, it still has to meet whatever spec was specified in the contract. Does better exist? Sure. But does that fact mean the govt spec was crap? No.
I served as well. The bombers, fighters and munitions at my base weren't crap just because they were produced by the lowest cost bidder. And just because the French make bombers, fighters and munitions too doesn't mean they're just as good.
And if you're going to tell me my $69 aimpoint knockoff is just as good as my M3 because both do the same thing, then we'll just agree to disagree.
Troublco
02-24-2011, 18:47
I had a rifle, until I traded it recently, that had a UTG 4 rail fore-end. It worked fine, I didn't have any issues with it. It was NOT as rigid as any of my others. Did it do the job? Sure, what I used it for. I would not have used it for anything more demanding than I was. Would I expect to see UTG on a rifle costing, say, $1400+? No. And I wouldn't pay that for one. I could see using UTG for prototyping, or low stress purposes such as I was.
If someone wants a specific manufacturer, that's up to them. Don't flame 'em because they like something specific. Doesn't make them wrong. Doesn't make you right. Whether it's upper end or lower end. If you just enjoy arguing, that's another story![Coffee]
Byte Stryke
02-24-2011, 18:52
Sigh.
Why are some so extreme on here? Where did I ever mention aircraft grade aluminum or milspec marketing speak? Pretty sure I didn't. And it doesn't matter how cheap (money wise) someone makes something for the govt, it still has to meet whatever spec was specified in the contract. Does better exist? Sure. But does that fact mean the govt spec was crap? No.
I served as well. The bombers, fighters and munitions at my base weren't crap just because they were produced by the lowest cost bidder. And just because the French make bombers, fighters and munitions too doesn't mean they're just as good.
And if you're going to tell me my $69 aimpoint knockoff is just as good as my M3 because both do the same thing, then we'll just agree to disagree.
WTF are you talking about Aimpoints?
We are talking rails... stay on target there flyboy.
But since you brought it up, if it holds zero and puts the round on target, I dont think the guy at the other end is going to care what you paid for it.
iron sights, Aimpoints ACOGs...
all extra
If it is issued, it's manufactured of the cheapest materials by the lowest bidder that they can get past the inspectors, or by whoever paid off the Contracting officer with the best hookers.
I've seen the civilian side as well. That's enough to scare the shit out of anyone.
But then what do I know, I'm Just an extremist trying to talk sense to an elitist.
rockhound
02-24-2011, 19:03
i mounted my eotech on a 13 dollar z rail. a no name brand, it is 100% solid aluminum and is strong as hell oh yeah and its black. it holds my optic which is where i put my money. and it aslo still has room for a light/laser setup
what would 1 $100 rail do any different
WTF are you talking about Aimpoints?
We are talking rails... stay on target there flyboy.
Just an example. Sorry I'm moving too fast for you ground pounder. [Tooth]
But since you brought it up, if it holds zero and puts the round on target, I dont think the guy at the other end is going to care what you paid for it.
iron sights, Aimpoints ACOGs...
all extra
Sure, if one time use is the only concern. See how well a knockoff holds up to extended hard use. That's were the difference lies. You should cal lthe Pentagon and tell them to start buying knock offs from ebay. The savings to the taxpayer will be huge.
But then what do I know, I'm Just an extremist trying to talk sense to an elitist.
See it was all fun until now. I don't agree with you so I'm an elitist?
i mounted my eotech on a 13 dollar z rail. a no name brand, it is 100% solid aluminum and is strong as hell oh yeah and its black. it holds my optic which is where i put my money. and it aslo still has room for a light/laser setup
what would 1 $100 rail do any different
A hundred dollar rail would do nothing different. A 13 dollar z rail serves your purposes and needs perfectly. Great buy.
I'm done with the chatter. This thread has gone so far off topic and I apologize to the OP. This is what happens when I'm bored at work. I start posting in threads. Time to go eat.
Byte Stryke
02-24-2011, 19:14
i mounted my eotech on a 13 dollar z rail. a no name brand, it is 100% solid aluminum and is strong as hell oh yeah and its black. it holds my optic which is where i put my money. and it aslo still has room for a light/laser setup
what would 1 $100 rail do any different
Well, we just aren't going to shoot with you because you aren't cool enough to have $700 Rails and $4000 Optics on a $2000 AR! if you didn't pay allot you just aren't "IN"!
[/sarcasm]
Honestly, I compare it to the kids that HAD to have Nikes because they were somehow better than my Cons...
I took my cheap-ass DPMS AR supported by my cheap ass Winchester-walmart Bipod with my cheap-ass BSA Scope to D_Man's and pounded the hell out of those little cans of Tannerite as well as anyone else.
so yeah, whatever.
Byte Stryke
02-24-2011, 19:23
Just an example. Sorry I'm moving too fast for you ground pounder. [Tooth]
Sure, if one time use is the only concern. See how well a knockoff holds up to extended hard use. That's were the difference lies. You should cal lthe Pentagon and tell them to start buying knock offs from ebay. The savings to the taxpayer will be huge.
See it was all fun until now. I don't agree with you so I'm an elitist?
What would the contracting officers do for hookers if we bought things from Ebay?
(Nice Slippery Slope argument BTW)
As far as the elitist comment,you referred to me as an extremist.. I figured it was naturally the other side of the argument.
The Ground Pounder comment, Thank you.
Please remember that when you are crying you have no place to land your broke-ass airplanes.
I've probably built and repaired more runways on in more countries for practice than you have landed on ;)
http://www.mendonet.com/588th/g/castle11.gif
:D
Honestly, I compare it to the kids that HAD to have Nikes because they were somehow better than my Cons...
Hey, I can't help the fact the Nikes fit my feet better than cons ever did.
[Neene1]
As far as the elitist comment,you referred to me as an extremist.. I figured it was naturally the other side of the argument.
Yeah, you're right. I'm just as guilty.
The Ground Pounder comment, Thank you.
Please remember that when you are crying you have no place to land your broke-ass airplanes.
I've probably built and repaired more runways on in more countries for practice than you have landed on ;)
http://www.mendonet.com/588th/g/castle11.gif
:D
The Chair Force thanks you. Hard to give you guys close air support and air superiority without runways. And I wasn't a pilot. I was Fixed and Mobile Comm. 'No Comm, No Bomb'. I probably have more in common with you ground pounders than the pilots. It's all good Brother.
[Beer]
I feel this thread needs some sense talked into it!
you're both right-
ARs are money pits, for example-
How many ARs have you seen with Noveske (sp) barrels and free floated rails with the 1:7 twist rate to keep a nice tight hole with heavy ammo?
now- how many of those same rifles have on optic on top with a 4 moa dot such as an H-1 or T-1? Makes you think.
On the other side of the coin there is crap out there that people staple onto their guns-
I have broken my fair share of parts and run the gambit on levels. A larue mount trumps the shit out of a QRP mount, is it worth it, probably not, but it is much better. I broke a Troy rail, twice, can't say I've done that to a Knights or a DD. That said, I've destroyed a EMOD stock, but haven't been able to break a Stag stock I pulled off a different gun.
(both companies mentioned stood by their product, nothing but respect for them, Vltor even had me send it in as they didn't believe it could break that bad)
End of the day, if you're running a UTG and its not breaking, well, I can't say shit about that. As to optics, I bet most scopes can handle a 223 recoil, and if you threw a 3-9 Simmons scope on top, well, you will probably out shoot an Aimpoint all day at range, but don't be suprised if it goes tits up if you drop it sideways.
So yeah, back on topic. Watching the automated turret show last night really was disappointing. Owner guy was getting his panties all wrapped around the pole over a concept and solution set that exist so many times over that it isn't even worth going into. He was all up in arms acting like he was inventing THE life saving turret system for a private security group that should then be snatched up by the MIL. Oh wait, the MIL already has that many times over.
Anyway... meh, it's kinda a fun show to watch. Can't say anything besides the integral suppressed AK has really made me go ... "hhmmmm that's pretty cool". Seems like it's a good crew and the best quote so far came from the young guy..
"Yeah, this is my job, I get to do this and its only Tuesday" .. pretty sure that's when they were wringing out the 50 M-2.
I'll keep watching it, even if they keep using UTG craptastic cheap-o shmeg on their rifles. Don't see myself buying from them anyway.
PS - Just cause I really want to get into the brawl.. not everything the .gov buys is from the lowest bidder folks, ask me and my contracting officers how I know :)
Troublco
02-24-2011, 21:53
Oh, sure, Badshot. Get Byte all wound up again! [ROFL1]
I hadn't seen the show until last night. I found it to be much more enjoyable than I thought it would be, based on all the stuff I've heard about it on here anyway.
I saw the episode where they made the gun shoot blanks, and the turret episode. I have to agree with Badshot. The whole episode I was thinking, "Didn't I see this on Future Weapons like 65 years ago?"
Byte Stryke
02-25-2011, 06:28
PS - Just cause I really want to get into the brawl.. not everything the .gov buys is from the lowest bidder folks, ask me and my contracting officers how I know :)
see, and this is where the hookers come into play!
[LOL]
Just as a note: Unless there was a Mod involved, PMs and Telephone calls made, It's all fun debate, banter and jest.
WORST runway repair exercise evar!
we dropped in a team, Sappered 4 craters into a runway, dropped another team in to repair it
Nova Scotia Canada, February 87
wind was about 40knots in from the ocean.
We had Ice forming on our risers when we hit the snow.
I still have nightmares about being that cold.
ShooterJM
02-25-2011, 08:59
.. not everything the .gov buys is from the lowest bidder folks, ask me and my contracting officers how I know :)
<==== sell to the gov and various groups.....I got some stories....
BPTactical
02-25-2011, 15:05
Good to see ya back here BadShot!
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