View Full Version : ATF: Gun in US agent's death traced to Texas man
DALLAS—Three people suspected of smuggling guns to Mexico were arrested in a Dallas suburb on Monday after federal investigators traced the gun used in the killing of a U.S. agent in Mexico to one of them, officials said.
Agents of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives arrested the suspected gun smugglers in morning raids in the southern Dallas suburb of Lancaster, Texas, ATF spokesman Tom Crowley said. Crowley referred questions on other details to the U.S. Justice Department in Washington. A department spokeswoman said no statement was planned for Monday. The ATF said the gun was used in a Feb. 15 shooting of two federal agents who were driving on a highway near the northern city of San Luis Potosi on Feb. 15. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent Jaime Zapata was killed and agent Victor Avila was wounded.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_17504432
theGinsue
02-28-2011, 21:50
Why, sure it was...
Anyone ever see any actual proof of these "traces"?
Not buying what they're selling!
mcantar18c
02-28-2011, 22:10
Now the question is, were these Americans or people living in America?
One I care about.... the latter, they can do as they please with them, legit "traces" or not.
I call BS on it being the gun used in the shootings.
we all want to cut federal funding/spending....start it with the ATF.
Zundfolge
02-28-2011, 22:34
If they found the gun used in the shooting (was it left at the scene?) then they could run the serial number through the NICS database (you know, the registry of guns and gun owners that the 1986 FOPA made illegal but you know they maintain) then you could find the last person to purchase the gun from a dealer.
So basically when they find these guns they can find the last LAW ABIDING CITIZEN that owned the gun and they can crucify him (you know that makes them happier than finding a genuine criminal)
If they found the gun used in the shooting (was it left at the scene?) then they could run the serial number through the NICS database (you know, the registry of guns and gun owners that the 1986 FOPA made illegal but you know they maintain) then you could find the last person to purchase the gun from a dealer.
So basically when they find these guns they can find the last LAW ABIDING CITIZEN that owned the gun and they can crucify him (you know that makes them happier than finding a genuine criminal)
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner [NoEvil]
Never let the facts get in the way... Another good reason to not have your name associated with a firearm.
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner [NoEvil]
Never let the facts get in the way... Another good reason to not have your name associated with a firearm.
I am appalled you guys own guns. I thought we were all peace loving pot smokin hippies[Flower]
Oh $hiat! I forgot. Ohm [Flower] ohm [Flower] ohm [Flower]
I can just imagine the poor suburbanite, sitting in his Lazy Boy watching Jeopardy, when the ATF comes through the front door.
gcrookston
03-01-2011, 13:28
Why, sure it was...
Anyone ever see any actual proof of these "traces"?
Not buying what they're selling!
A few years ago I had a call on a gun I used to own. It had been recovered at a crime scene. I'd bought it new, didn't like it, traded it to another dealer for a different gun. That dealer had let it go out the back door without ever logging it in. I had receipts for both transactions.
Don't see what the big deal is. Straw purchases are illegal. If this was the case (and it appears it is), I applaud the ATF for enforcing our existing laws.
gcrookston
03-01-2011, 13:43
Why, sure it was...
Anyone ever see any actual proof of these "traces"?
Not buying what they're selling!
A few years ago I had a call on a gun I used to own. It had been recovered at a crime scene. I'd bought it new, didn't like it, traded it to another dealer for a different gun. That dealer had let it go out the back door without ever logging it in. I had receipts for both transactions.
Break the law, go to jail. I don't see what the big deal is?
Byte Stryke
03-01-2011, 15:01
A few years ago I had a call on a gun I used to own. It had been recovered at a crime scene. I'd bought it new, didn't like it, traded it to another dealer for a different gun. That dealer had let it go out the back door without ever logging it in. I had receipts for both transactions.
Break the law, go to jail. I don't see what the big deal is?
receipts are not required by law
so if I Sell my [assault/sniper/airplane killer] Gun to here on the forums, it gets jacked from his vehicle and used in a crime, guess who it comes back to.
Am I guilty of Something wrong?
Nope.
am I going to be vilified and strung up as a scapegoat?
Probably
[U]THAT is what the big deal is.
Not to mention the illegality of the computerized databases they are keeping. In reality, most firearms are only trackable from the importer, to the FFL, to the original buyer. After that, all bets should be off. Except they're not. Somehow, the BATFE is searching millions of 4473s from thousands of current and former FFLs to "trace" these firearms.
As far as tying a particular firearm to a single bullet recovered at a crime scene, this is pure Hollywood bullshit. Most forensic investigators will tell you that they may be able to match a bullet to a certain TYPE of weapon, but matching a bullet to a single gun with a high degree of certainty is a longshot at best, particularly guns that use polygonal rifling. Ballistic fingerprinting has devolved from a definitive evidentiary tool to being additional circumstantial evidence.
Byte Stryke
03-01-2011, 17:03
Not to mention the illegality of the computerized databases they are keeping. In reality, most firearms are only trackable from the importer, to the FFL, to the original buyer. After that, all bets should be off. Except they're not. Somehow, the BATFE is searching millions of 4473s from thousands of current and former FFLs to "trace" these firearms.
As far as tying a particular firearm to a single bullet recovered at a crime scene, this is pure Hollywood bullshit. Most forensic investigators will tell you that they may be able to match a bullet to a certain TYPE of weapon, but matching a bullet to a single gun with a high degree of certainty is a longshot at best, particularly guns that use polygonal rifling. Ballistic fingerprinting has devolved from a definitive evidentiary tool to being additional circumstantial evidence.
what in the...
You mean to tell me that Gary Sinese, David Caruso and Laurence Fishburne wont come in and put the bullet under a spectron flabberdoodle analyzer and tell me that the Vapors from the tuna sammich I had for lunch reacted with the Gas from my ass and the burning Sulfites in the cartridge leaving a "Chemical DNA Fingerprint" on the bullet that traces back to me from some obscure database hacked into by Kirsten Vangsness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsten_Vangsness)?
Why do we even have police officers then?
[ROFL1]
gcrookston
03-01-2011, 17:09
Receipts aren't required, just an old habit from my years as an FFL.
Put your tinfoil hats away.
The trace starts with the Mfg. It will then lead to a Dealer or Distributor to Dealer. Then it leads to the original buyer. It is a process of phone calls and can generally be accomplished within an hour, as most of these sales are now recorded electronically (many dealers have switched over to computerized big books).
The slow downs start / trails get cold with guns sold more than 10 years ago, dealers that have gone out of business, original purchasers that have moved, etc..
No one is reading the 4473s in the storage units or on the floppy discs unless they are being asked to do so for a particular transaction.
what in the...
You mean to tell me that Gary Sinese, David Caruso and Laurence Fishburne wont come in and put the bullet under a spectron flabberdoodle analyzer and tell me that the Vapors from the tuna sammich I had for lunch reacted with the Gas from my ass and the burning Sulfites in the cartridge leaving a "Chemical DNA Fingerprint" on the bullet that traces back to me from some obscure database hacked into by Kirsten Vangsness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsten_Vangsness)?
Why do we even have police officers then?
[ROFL1]
WTF? I thought this was an ENGLISH ONLY board. This Chinese crap is unacceptable! I have absolutely no idea what you said, but my pants were impressed right off of me (back on now of course, hate typing pants-less) - oh and I'm pretty sure you cussed someone out... [UZI]
Colorado Luckydog
03-01-2011, 20:32
A few years ago I had a call on a gun I used to own. It had been recovered at a crime scene. I'd bought it new, didn't like it, traded it to another dealer for a different gun. That dealer had let it go out the back door without ever logging it in. I had receipts for both transactions.
Break the law, go to jail. I don't see what the big deal is?
Well Cheeri-Fucking-O!! It's a big fucking deal! Did you vote for Obama?? just asking........
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