View Full Version : Psa-never Ever Ever Do This!
BPTactical
03-06-2011, 18:53
A customer brings me an AR built by a local shop to do a little front end work. I grab the trusty barrel wrench and apply some pressure to the barrel nut. Won't budge a bit. Put some more OOMPH to the wrench and it still won't budge. I grab the 1/2" torque wrench so I can get some more leverage and it stiil wont budge! WTF? I double check to make sure there is no mechanical reason it won't turn and I see none. This time I grab the 2.5' "cheater" and put the toque to it-it slowly starts to turn but still has an ass load of resistance. After a few minutes of sweating and cussing it finally comes off and I can pull the barrel.
Wanna know why it was a Biatch to get off?:
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u69/hockeysew/IMG_3038.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u69/hockeysew/IMG_3046.jpg
NEVER EVER EVER use Loctite on a barrel nut!
They should only be lubed with a moly based grease or anti-seize.
Don't use anything with graphite in it-it can cause a corrosion issue due to dissimilar metals.
40 ft/lbs of torque, and if needed to align the next notch for the gas tube some additional tightening, not to exceed 80 ft/lbs.
Never back off the nut to line up the gas tube notches-if you feel you have to tighten it too much then try another barrel nut.
Using Loctite on a barrel nut is just stupid. If torqued properly it is not going to loosen, and even if it did it is not going to back off, the gas tube will prevent that.
The only time Loctite is acceptable in barrel mounting is on a match rifle, and even then I would hesitate-some builders will Loctite the barrel extenstion to the reciever, knowing that the pair will never be disassembled.
Damn lucky the nose of the reciever didn't snap off!
Just an FYI.............
Gcompact30
03-06-2011, 19:24
LOL you need to slap that person [ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3]loctite, superglue, duck tape all in the same family.
A customer brings me an AR built by a local shop to do a little front end work. I grab the trusty barrel wrench and apply some pressure to the barrel nut. Won't budge a bit. Put some more OOMPH to the wrench and it still won't budge. I grab the 1/2" torque wrench so I can get some more leverage and it stiil wont budge! WTF? I double check to make sure there is no mechanical reason it won't turn and I see none. This time I grab the 2.5' "cheater" and put the toque to it-it slowly starts to turn but still has an ass load of resistance. After a few minutes of sweating and cussing it finally comes off and I can pull the barrel.
Wanna know why it was a Biatch to get off?:
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u69/hockeysew/IMG_3038.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u69/hockeysew/IMG_3046.jpg
NEVER EVER EVER use Loctite on a barrel nut!
They should only be lubed with a moly based grease or anti-seize.
Don't use anything with graphite in it-it can cause a corrosion issue due to dissimilar metals.
40 ft/lbs of torque, and if needed to align the next notch for the gas tube some additional tightening, not to exceed 80 ft/lbs.
Never back off the nut to line up the gas tube notches-if you feel you have to tighten it too much then try another barrel nut.
Using Loctite on a barrel nut is just stupid. If torqued properly it is not going to loosen, and even if it did it is not going to back off, the gas tube will prevent that.
The only time Loctite is acceptable in barrel mounting is on a match rifle, and even then I would hesitate-some builders will Loctite the barrel extenstion to the reciever, knowing that the pair will never be disassembled.
Damn lucky the nose of the reciever didn't snap off!
Just an FYI.............
porfiriozg
03-06-2011, 19:49
hold up there don't dis the duck tape it's the only thing keeping my truck together, that and a magpul sticker[LOL]
LOL you need to slap that person [ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3]loctite, superglue, duck tape all in the same family.
Gcompact30
03-06-2011, 20:12
FOR DUCK TAPE.....lol [ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]
DeusExMachina
03-06-2011, 20:31
Let us know who so we never ever go to that fool.
Same thing was on mine, but not that bad.
jerrymrc
03-06-2011, 20:31
Quit your complaining. Little red loctite and a few Ft lbs. Just wait till ya see a Fal barrel that has red on it and has been tq'd to 160 lbs.
6' of bar on the receiver wrench and two guys pulling on it. [Coffee] It only broke loose after some heat.[Rant2]
gnihcraes
03-06-2011, 20:34
Almost looks like there is thread tape on there too?
FireMoth
03-06-2011, 20:52
Lucky it didn't destroy the front ring of the receiver.
I want to know what sort of perversion of mind translates "anti-seize" into "thread locker"
Glad you managed to get it loose. Lucky for the customer to.
Quit your complaining. Little red loctite and a few Ft lbs. Just wait till ya see a Fal barrel that has red on it and has been tq'd to 160 lbs.
6' of bar on the receiver wrench and two guys pulling on it. [Coffee] It only broke loose after some heat.[Rant2]
I was gonna say, fire is about the only way to crack the red oped.
Red Lock Tight is for pansies. I use JB Weld.
[Peep]
SA Friday
03-07-2011, 00:33
Ya, and now you gotta clean all that shit off the threads and nut before reassembly. I'd a been pissed.
Do I even want to ask what they did to the buffer tube? Tig maybe?
FireMoth
03-07-2011, 00:40
That shits not funny. i had a buffer tube that had 3 spots of jb weld or some sort of epoxy on the staking points about a month ago.
That sucked donkey balls
As soon as I saw that red on the threads, I would have gotten out the torch to heat it up.
That's also probably why I'm not a gunsmith.
What Jerry said..;)
Years ago I was breaking apart some old gear for a service change.
For some reason, known only to the guy that put it together, Instead of using lock washers, He thought it would be a good idea to use locktite on everything. Including the ones holding the bus bars together..
After struggling with a few of them over the course of the afternoon, I stopped at HD on the way home and invested in a 1/2" impact wrench..
Just about the most brillant idea I ever had. [Tooth]
StagLefty
03-07-2011, 09:05
Lucky it didn't destroy the front ring of the receiver.
I want to know what sort of perversion of mind translates "anti-seize" into "thread locker"
Glad you managed to get it loose. Lucky for the customer to.
That's why I rely on you [Beer]
Working in another industry which seems to encourage people that are armed with a hatfull of ignorance and a set of bitchin' Harbor freight tools to work on their own shit, I can empathize. The purchase of Loctite should require nothing less than 4 hours of classroom instruction, a criminal/mechanical background check, and a doctor's prescription.
Working in another industry which seems to encourage people that are armed with a hatfull of ignorance and a set of bitchin' Harbor freight tools to work on their own shit, I can empathize. The purchase of Loctite should require nothing less than 4 hours of classroom instruction, a criminal/mechanical background check, and a doctor's prescription.
^^^this
but in the diesel world we also have caterpillar green loctite that crap does not release unless you have a torch
FireMoth
03-07-2011, 16:06
Evil green loctite!
Marlin actually uses that on 336 lever gun barrel threads. Big finger to gun smiths, that.
Evil green loctite!
Marlin actually uses that on 336 lever gun barrel threads. Big finger to gun smiths, that.
HAHA
Caterpillar epoxy makes JB weld look like Elmers glue as well. it has saved my ass on more than a couple things though.
In a word: WOW! Oh, and don't be hating me because I have hundred mile an hour tape holding on my barrel, that stuff is good for anything!
jerrymrc
03-07-2011, 17:33
^^^this
but in the diesel world we also have caterpillar green loctite that crap does not release unless you have a torch
I thought the green was the wicking type or was that the purple? No, purple is for screws. Of course some forget that the red is called "stud and bearing mount"
The green for the cat must be the 609 or 690? And then there are different #'s for the type that needs a primer and those that don't.
Working in another industry which seems to encourage people that are armed with a hatfull of ignorance and a set of bitchin' Harbor freight tools to work on their own shit, I can empathize. The purchase of Loctite should require nothing less than 4 hours of classroom instruction, a criminal/mechanical background check, and a doctor's prescription.
YEP! I agree. [Beer]
Colorado Osprey
03-07-2011, 19:11
It sounds like some are you are not very familiar with Loctite product line.
There are
2,632 different Loctite products.
COLOR means nothing!
There are over 200 red color versions of thread sealant/products.
There are over 200 blue as well.
Some green are an after assembly that act like an epoxy to prevent something from coming loose or marking if it has come or been taken apart. There is also a green that wicks into the thread for those that forgot to install a thread locker as they assembled something.
Point being,
Don't condemn people for using thread lock or Loctite products on their firearms. Condemn them for using them incorrectly!
BTW a little heat (500 degrees) to break that Red 271 Loctite would have not damaged the firearm and made quick dis-assembly. Torquing on cured 271 is a great way to damage things.
Mobat555
03-07-2011, 20:45
NEVER EVER EVER use Loctite on a barrel nut!
The only time Loctite is acceptable in barrel mounting is on a match rifle, and even then I would hesitate-some builders will Loctite the barrel extenstion to the reciever, knowing that the pair will never be disassembled.
Point being,
Don't condemn people for using thread lock or Loctite products on their firearms. Condemn them for using them incorrectly!
Perhaps I missed something, but I think BPTactical was referring to the use of loctite with a barrel nut and even then its acceptable if you never plan on removing it. With this in mind I do think he was condemning the builder for incorrectly using loctite.
BPTactical
03-07-2011, 21:51
Perhaps I missed something, but I think BPTactical was referring to the use of loctite with a barrel nut and even then its acceptable if you never plan on removing it. With this in mind I do think he was condemning the builder for incorrectly using loctite.
Correction Mobat-Loctite of any formulation should never be used on a barrel nut-grease or anti-sieze only.
I have seen examples of match built rifles that have had the barrel extension Loctited to the reciever ring on match rifles, mindset being that it is one less place for any possible movement of the barrel vs. reciever. They do however become a married unit. Not a problem for a dedicated match rifle, when the barrel is worn they just replace both.
Perhaps condemning is too strong a word-questioning definitley-most assuredly not a "standard practice".
Only 4 formulations of Loctite on my benches-271 Red High Strength, 242 Blue Medium Strength, 680 Green Stud and Bearing Retainer and 222 Purple Low Strength. Of these the 271 gets used on 1911 overtravel screws and sight dovetails occasionally, 242 on miscellanious small fasteners, typically accessories and scope mounts.
I dont recall using the 680 or 222 in recent history on a firearm.
I like Vibra-Tite as well-good stuff and it is essentially reuseable.
As noted, threadlocking compunds have their uses as long as the application is correct.
One thing that got me-there was enough Loctite used on this particular item you could have threadlocked every fastener for 5 Harleys.
Red can be broken loose without heat or damage to components as well if you know how
Correction Mobat-Loctite of any formulation should never be used on a barrel nut-grease or anti-sieze only.
I have seen examples of match built rifles that have had the barrel extension Loctited to the reciever ring on match rifles, mindset being that it is one less place for any possible movement of the barrel vs. reciever. They do however become a married unit. Not a problem for a dedicated match rifle, when the barrel is worn they just replace both.
Perhaps condemning is too strong a word-questioning definitley-most assuredly not a "standard practice".
Only 4 formulations of Loctite on my benches-271 Red High Strength, 242 Blue Medium Strength, 680 Green Stud and Bearing Retainer and 222 Purple Low Strength. Of these the 271 gets used on 1911 overtravel screws and sight dovetails occasionally, 242 on miscellanious small fasteners, typically accessories and scope mounts.
I dont recall using the 680 or 222 in recent history on a firearm.
I like Vibra-Tite as well-good stuff and it is essentially reuseable.
As noted, threadlocking compunds have their uses as long as the application is correct.
One thing that got me-there was enough Loctite used on this particular item you could have threadlocked every fastener for 5 Harleys.
Red can be broken loose without heat or damage to components as well if you know how
Yup a BFH or an impact gun of some kind[ROFL1]
BPTactical
03-07-2011, 22:17
Yup a BFH or an impact gun of some kind[ROFL1]
Your a sick man..............
No hammer or impact involved BTW[Coffee]
FireMoth
03-07-2011, 22:52
+1 to vibra-tite. too bad more places don't carry VC1 in small bottles.
Even copious amounts don't tend to have the potential catastrophic results that taking up all the run out in threads with loc-tite can
Red Lock Tight is for pansies. I use JB Weld.
[Peep]
Thats funny right there, I don't care who you are!![ROFL1][ROFL3]
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