Smoke Grenades?

[westy1970]

Anyone know the legality of smoke grenades. I came across a sight that sold them a while ago and would ship to CO but I don't what the MAN has to say about them.

[rammit]

those lil smoke bomb things they sell at firework stands are illegal here too, maybe some correlation?

[275RLTW]

The fuzes are considered explosive devices. DO NOT ACQUIRE THEM WITHOUT AN EXPLOSIVE LICENSE.

[CareyH]

The fuzes are considered explosive devices. DO NOT ACQUIRE THEM WITHOUT AN EXPLOSIVE LICENSE.

as far as I can tell the chemical inside the M201A1 ignitor is on the explosives material list but so is smokeless powder, safety fuze,black powder. I was unable to find any federal law or ATF ruling banning these or making them a DD(destructive device). Also when the ATF makes a ruling on something like this the put out a press relesae and instuctions on what to do if you have what ever the device maybe(the GSG with the fake can, or the hand cranks for the triggers). So what if you have a few M18's what do you do with them?

If you could find the law,ruling I would like to see it.

[275RLTW]

Posted by Mike Aultman of ALS Technologies 10Jan2011
** I am not an Attorney **
BATF Exp Law and Regs (publication 5400.7) has a list of Explosives in the back. Under I.... is listed Ignitor. The DOT lists M201A1 fuzes as Ignitors.....therefore, Fuzes are Explosive Material and are subject to all regs for purchase, transpo and storage.
DDs are Explosive Material *AND* Firearms therefore they are serial numbered and go on the National Registry at NFA. Explosive materials/explosive devices are not NFA.
These are not new regs, they have just always been interpreted differently.

Yes, we were told in writing that they must be stored in a BATF approved Magazine (13Jan2011)

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2010/01/010810-atf-publishes-list-of-explosives.html


** I am not an Attorney **
Mike Aultman
Senior Vice President
ALS Technologies
870-445-8746
www.AlsTechnologies.com (http://www.AlsTechnologies.com)




This is from a conversation with him. Same discussion with DynoNobel, and Omni explosive mfgs. I confirmed this with ATF this month during our magazine inspection. The igniters (and any canister they are attached to) are considered explosive devices and all appropriate regs apply. Don't believe me (its not like we run an explosive school or anything)...call ATF yourself and ask. They are not there to be pricks, only enforce the regs politicians put into place.

[TFOGGER]

You could probably be charged under CRS 18-12-109 (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll/cocode/1/2dfde/3213c/32166/322af?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0), which in part states that it a crime to possess an "explosive or incendiary device" to include


(A) Dynamite and all other forms of high explosives, including, but not limited to, water gel, slurry, military C-4 (plastic explosives), blasting agents to include nitro-carbon-nitrate, and ammonium nitrate and fuel oil mixtures, cast primers and boosters, R.D.X., P.E.T.N., electric and nonelectric blasting caps, exploding cords commonly called detonating cord or det-cord or primacord, picric acid explosives, T.N.T. and T.N.T. mixtures, and nitroglycerin and nitroglycerin mixtures;




(B) Any explosive bomb, grenade, missile, or similar device; and




(C) Any incendiary bomb or grenade, fire bomb, or similar device, including any device, except kerosene lamps, which consists of or includes a breakable container including a flammable liquid or compound and a wick composed of any material which, when ignited, is capable of igniting such flammable liquid or compound and can be carried or thrown by one individual acting alone.




(II) "Explosive or incendiary device" shall not include rifle, pistol, or shotgun ammunition, or the components for handloading rifle, pistol, or shotgun ammunition.




(b) (I) "Explosive or incendiary parts" means any substances or materials or combinations thereof which have been prepared or altered for use in the creation of an explosive or incendiary device. Such substances or materials may include, but shall not be limited to, any:




(A) Timing device, clock, or watch which has been altered in such a manner as to be used as the arming device in an explosive;




(B) Pipe, end caps, or metal tubing which has been prepared for a pipe bomb;



(C) Mechanical timers, mechanical triggers, chemical time delays, electronic time delays, or commercially made or improvised items which, when used singly or in combination, may be used in the construction of a timing delay mechanism, booby trap, or activating mechanism for any explosive or incendiary device.








(II) "Explosive or incendiary parts" shall not include rifle, pistol, or shotgun ammunition, or the components for handloading rifle, pistol, or shotgun ammunition, or any signaling device customarily used in operation of railroad equipment.



Violation is a Class 3 Felony

[CareyH]

I guess it must be like brass knucks and switch blades, butterfly knifes. legal to sell illegal to have? I have seen the M18's for sale(on this board even) and no one has ever made a peep. I gather from the post that they have always been illegal and nobody enforced it???

[275RLTW]

ATF has not commented on devices in current circulation to non-licensees, specifically legalities of ownership. We speculate that it is because enforcement would be impossible. Thus far, they have made no big deal out of it, however I wouldn't push the issue with them. Until a ruling is pubically made, I wouldn't worry yet. However, you cannot purchase them anymore without a FEL; and in CO, a type I & II explosive permits from Division of Oil & Public Safety (unless you are LE on authorized duty). I would consider this an oppertunity to test them out and dispose of them the fun way while you can.

[275RLTW]

***MODS***
Since this subject comes up often enough, can we sticky this or something to keep people from intentionally committing a felony for trying to sell these here and bringing undue attention on us?

Thanks

[275RLTW]

Just had a meeting with ATF EIPB agent this morning regarding the M201A1 igniter. The composition of the igniter indicates it is an explosive device (low explosive) and needs to be posessed/transported/stored as such. Knowing that the M83 smoke grenade is in posession by some civillians, which makes them unlawfully posessing an explosive device, no formal amnesty could be confirmed, although recommended by us, and guidance was given by the agent to notify your local Sheriff's Bomb Squad to surrender the item to them. The ATF is currently working on legislation to clearly define the classification of M83 smoke grenades with the M201A1 Igniter and anticipate its release soon. The grenade WITHOUT the M201A1 igniter is unregulated and therefore, completely legal without a Federal Explosives License. Also, smoke grenades that use an ignition system NOT composed of explosive materials are/will be considered pyrotechnics and should be treated as such. As soon as the official release is made concerning the M83 smoke grenade, I'll post it here.

***I am not an ATF agent, nor are these official statements regarding these devices. This is only what was discussed between a face to face meeting with the agent.***