View Full Version : How much trouble am I in...
So, I had an interesting day today...
henpecked
03-20-2011, 16:06
who ever calls the cops first usually wins.........
Byte Stryke
03-20-2011, 16:10
So, all kidding aside, am I going to get into trouble do you think? I don't think I will, but... Let me explain the situation. We are driving down D road here in town and this spick (not to be mixed up with mexican) decided that he is going to pass my wife illegally (no passing lane, double solid yellow lines), and then come dangerously close to side swiping her as he cuts in front of us as oncoming traffic is coming near. My wife honks the horn, that was the extent of her reaction to this. At the next stop light, the guy gets out of his late 90's Limited green Cherokee, plate number 360- Z** with a nice baseball bat and starts comin at our car. My instant reaction to this is to open my door, step out, take my gun out, rack the slide and put in on the dash board. All of that happened in about 4 seconds. This made him stop dead in his tracks about 2 feet away from our front bumper. I told him to put the bat down and get into his car and drive away. He dropped the bat, and got the hell out of there. I grabbed a plastic bag out of the car and picked up the bat, and we headed home. We got home about 10 minutes ago, I called the sherriff and told them exactly what happened. I am waiting on someone to stop by now... So, any takers on what is going to happen next?
report filed, evidence taken. They will track down the guy by the plate number and ask him some questions and see if he wants to file a complaint.
If so, it goes to court, you explain he had a deadly weapon, exhibit A, you prepared to defend yourself. case closed.
Kinda,
Then we heckle the living hell out of you for having to rack it.[LOL]
(I kid)
trlcavscout
03-20-2011, 16:11
who ever calls the cops first usually wins.........
If you have the bat he left that is good proof that "you were in fear for your familys safety". Nothing will come of it probably. They will come take a statement because they have to and head to dinner.
Byte Stryke
03-20-2011, 16:11
who ever calls the cops first usually wins.........
and the dumb-ass that left his deadly weapon behind with fingerprints usually does time.
Scanker19
03-20-2011, 16:11
It's spelled SPIC as in SPIC and SPAN.
Fuck him unless he lies, and from your description he's an upstanding member of society, you should be good. At least I'd hope.
Good for you.
It's spelled SPIC as in SPIC and SPAN.
Fuck him unless he lies, and from your description he's an upstanding member of society, you should be good. At least I'd hope.
Good for you.
And hope for no retaliation from his primos.
henpecked
03-20-2011, 16:14
You were in "fear for your life"
henpecked
03-20-2011, 16:16
between your aunt and this guy your day has sucked[Coffee]
I think the sherriff is outside, but can't find the place... Anyway, I think he is here.
Well, I didn't know what to expect, but, that wasn't it... As said somewhere in here, they took my information, statement, description of the guy and car, the bat, and went on their way. Huh... maybe I watch too much of that CSI shit with my wife... [ROFL1]
Then we heckle the living hell out of you for having to rack it.[LOL]
(I kid)
... I wanted to make sure the wanabe gang banger knew I was serious, a little dramatic, maybe...
and the dumb-ass that left his deadly weapon behind with fingerprints usually does time.
I figured that would be a big point in all of it if anything came of this.
between your aunt and this guy your day has sucked[Coffee]
Ya, still pissed about the picture. [Bang]
patrick0685
03-20-2011, 16:40
well that was kinda a disappointing ending to the story
ChunkyMonkey
03-20-2011, 16:50
Hopefully that's that. I hate to think of a scenario where he got your plate number and passes it on to his buddies. People like him don't think rationally.
JohnTRourke
03-20-2011, 16:56
Well, I didn't know what to expect, but, that wasn't it... As said somewhere in here, they took my information, statement, description of the guy and car, the bat, and went on their way. Huh... maybe I watch too much of that CSI shit with my wife... [ROFL1]
sheeeet
they took a report
they filed said report
and that's ALL that will happen of it.
Kinda cool. now gotta watch for the idiot elsewhere.
OneGuy67
03-20-2011, 17:41
They will follow up on the license plate. Any patrol officer will.
Got to love the anti-cop crowd here on the forum. Makes me wonder why I bother to help the public when there are haters like those on the forum that want to second guess and Monday quarterback everything.
Should have put 2 or 3 (or 13 if you have a 9mm [ROFL1]) in him and let the bat as evidence speak for itself as it laid in a puddle... [AR15]
Got to love the anti-cop crowd here on the forum. Makes me wonder why I bother to help the public when there are haters like those on the forum that want to second guess and Monday quarterback everything.
OneGuy don't feel so bad..everyone hates the ref in a sports game, and could totally make better calls too..
henpecked
03-20-2011, 17:59
Oneguy I support the law enforcement community and hope my comment was not the one you were refering to......
And spyder as man pretty as you are you would have been real popular with the inmates[ROFL2]
Byte Stryke
03-20-2011, 18:01
They will follow up on the license plate. Any patrol officer will.
Got to love the anti-cop crowd here on the forum. Makes me wonder why I bother to help the public when there are haters like those on the forum that want to second guess and Monday quarterback everything.
Hey hey hey there Mr. Gloomy-pants
I think someone needs a hug.
:D
If you re-read my initial Post, I gave credit.
"They will track down the guy by the plate number and ask him some questions and see if he wants to file a complaint."
In all Honesty as weapons were "Drawn/Wielded" there will be follow-up
Almost Guaranteed someone will wind up in cuffs even if for a little bit.
No Promise there will be charges filed, and that's not up to the cops.
SA Friday
03-20-2011, 18:07
You filed the complaint. They took the evidence. You used only the level of force necessary to stop the assault. Shooting him vs what you did would NOT have been better despite what the peanut gallery says.
The cops will follow up on the complaint and it will go from there. You handled it well IMO.
Byte Stryke
03-20-2011, 18:10
You filed the complaint. They took the evidence. You used only the level of force necessary to stop the assault. Shooting him vs what you did would NOT have been better despite what the peanut gallery says.
The cops will follow up on the complaint and it will go from there. You handled it well IMO.
^+1
(Only one peanut was calling for blood)
OneGuy67
03-20-2011, 18:21
Hey hey hey there Mr. Gloomy-pants
I think someone needs a hug.
:D
If you re-read my initial Post, I gave credit.
"They will track down the guy by the plate number and ask him some questions and see if he wants to file a complaint."
In all Honesty as weapons were "Drawn/Wielded" there will be follow-up
Almost Guaranteed someone will wind up in cuffs even if for a little bit.
No Promise there will be charges filed, and that's not up to the cops.
Nah Byte,
Just wondering if the tin foil is fitting a little tight on the ol' head, given some of the postings I've seen from you as of late. Don't want the circulation to get cut off, ya know?
[Coffee]
OneGuy67
03-20-2011, 18:22
Oneguy I support the law enforcement community and hope my comment was not the one you were refering to......
And spyder as man pretty as you are you would have been real popular with the inmates[ROFL2]
Nope, not your comments...
Byte Stryke
03-20-2011, 18:25
Nah Byte,
Just wondering if the tin foil is fitting a little tight on the ol' head, given some of the postings I've seen from you as of late. Don't want the circulation to get cut off, ya know?
[Coffee]
The world is starting to suck the patience, tolerance and soul from me.
Bitterness and anger are starting to take their place.
Don't you still owe me a beer?
:D
Bailey Guns
03-20-2011, 18:30
The world is starting to suck the patience, tolerance and soul from me.
Bitterness and anger are starting to take their place.
Holy s**t! For a minute I thought I wrote that and forgot. I may need a drink.
Byte Stryke
03-20-2011, 18:33
Holy s**t! For a minute I thought I wrote that and forgot. I may need a drink.
No... it's me.
Just been a bad month with no predictions of getting any better.
trlcavscout
03-20-2011, 18:35
They will follow up on the license plate. Any patrol officer will.
Got to love the anti-cop crowd here on the forum. Makes me wonder why I bother to help the public when there are haters like those on the forum that want to second guess and Monday quarterback everything.
Aint no hatein. Just reality, if theirs no dead body nothing comes of it. If your car gets jacked they spend 3 hours to get to your house, take a report and thats it. If some drunk lady runs her car through your yard and runs into your house they take 2 hours, dont even care thats shes drunk, give her a ticket and off they go. When gang members attack a guy in a car with golf clubs and bats and cause a big scene they show up, check for warrants then let them go. The cop actually told me, since I was out front and called it in, "if they come back and bother you for calling take care of it then call 911". LEO's are busy and have to prioritize, they cant take care of everything. For the record the last 2 were in Las Vegas. The first was here, and since we knew the guy that took the car the cops told us we had to handle it on our own, they wouldnt get involved because "we probably gave him permission".
OneGuy67
03-20-2011, 18:35
The world is starting to suck the patience, tolerance and soul from me.
Bitterness and anger are starting to take their place.
Don't you still owe me a beer?
:D
Yes I do! Stuart keeps reminding about it and how I somehow missed your birthday outing. We'll have to make time sometime soon.
jerrymrc
03-20-2011, 18:46
The world is starting to suck the patience, tolerance and soul from me.
Bitterness and anger are starting to take their place.
:D
We have noticed that. ;)
Byte Stryke
03-20-2011, 19:02
We have noticed that. ;)
That Obvious eh?
I guess I just expect too much of the world and the people in it.
I give and People just want more.
When I Ask for a little back I get fu**ed over or blown-off.
I missed an Interview for a Net Admin Shot with SAIC Contracted to ICE last week...
Started at 75K/yr
would have set me back right.
Had no one to watch Little Byte.
Because I got blown off... forgotten.
Bet yer sweet-*** If people call me needing something, I better jump through flaming hoops.
pink tu-tu included
Little Byte is Sick,
Mother spent all week in the Hospital,
and to top it all off, there is also a general soul sucking sense of fu*kitude that seems to purvey everyone I talk to.
You know life sucks when you go to McD's to get yer kid a happy meal and the cashier gives you attitude.
:(
So in re-railing the thread, if I Piss anyone off, Don't take it personal. Chances are I am just lashing out at my life.
Don't worry just a little over a year and all will be fine.
Zundfolge
03-20-2011, 19:28
Got to love the anti-cop crowd here on the forum. Makes me wonder why I bother to help the public when there are haters like those on the forum that want to second guess and Monday quarterback everything.
Talk to some of your "brothers in blue" then. Its not like the growing tension between police and the law abiding citizenry is purely a case of tin-foil-hattery and irrational hatin'.
Last couple of times I've had dealings with the police as a victim of crime I've been treated either with disinterest or as a potential criminal to be investigated (had a gun stolen from my home during a real estate inspection and after I got a copy of the police report for insurance I discovered that the CSPD "Detective" spent his entire time investigating ME for "Filing a False Report" and flirting with one of the witnesses ... after I eventually submitted to a polygraph he realized I wasn't lying ... apparently nothing further was done and the primary suspect was ignored. I suspect its because he was a firefighter moonlighting as a home inspector ... Cops don't seem interested in going after one of their union brothers).
More and more when law abiding folk find themselves dealing with the police they are experiencing the same thing (only part of this is really the fault of the officers involved, the fact that government has an increasingly hostile attitude toward the people certainly puts the police in a bad position).
The problem is two fold, Part of the problem is the fact that politicians are making America a less free place with the law based less and less on the Constitution. The other problem is the culture developing within law enforcement. Too many police seem to see themselves as separate from the people (can't tell you how much it drives me nuts to hear police officers refer to their fellow citizens as "civilians" ... I have news for you bub based on the Posse Comitatus Act YOU are a civilian too).
Anyway, I appreciate the difficult job that cops have, and I understand that most of them are decent folk. But more and more you're going to see "cop bashing" here and elsewhere among law abiding folk until we return this country to the values it was built upon (both politically and culturally).
DeusExMachina
03-20-2011, 19:33
Couple questions:
1) Why did you rack the slide? You carry on an empty chamber?
2) Why did you put it on the dashboard?
patrick0685
03-20-2011, 19:38
Couple questions:
1) Why did you rack the slide? You carry on an empty chamber?
2) Why did you put it on the dashboard?
... I wanted to make sure the wanabe gang banger knew I was serious, a little dramatic, maybe...
i think thats why
DeusExMachina
03-20-2011, 19:40
Doesn't really answer the question for me...maybe racking the slide but putting the gun down is weird.
patrick0685
03-20-2011, 19:47
Doesn't really answer the question for me...maybe racking the slide but putting the gun down is weird.
ill agree...spyder come back
OneGuy67
03-20-2011, 19:55
Talk to some of your "brothers in blue" then. Its not like the growing tension between police and the law abiding citizenry is purely a case of tin-foil-hattery and irrational hatin'.
Last couple of times I've had dealings with the police as a victim of crime I've been treated either with disinterest or as a potential criminal to be investigated (had a gun stolen from my home during a real estate inspection and after I got a copy of the police report for insurance I discovered that the CSPD "Detective" spent his entire time investigating ME for "Filing a False Report" and flirting with one of the witnesses ... after I eventually submitted to a polygraph he realized I wasn't lying ... apparently nothing further was done and the primary suspect was ignored. I suspect its because he was a firefighter moonlighting as a home inspector ... Cops don't seem interested in going after one of their union brothers).
More and more when law abiding folk find themselves dealing with the police they are experiencing the same thing (only part of this is really the fault of the officers involved, the fact that government has an increasingly hostile attitude toward the people certainly puts the police in a bad position).
The problem is two fold, Part of the problem is the fact that politicians are making America a less free place with the law based less and less on the Constitution. The other problem is the culture developing within law enforcement. Too many police seem to see themselves as separate from the people (can't tell you how much it drives me nuts to hear police officers refer to their fellow citizens as "civilians" ... I have news for you bub based on the Posse Comitatus Act YOU are a civilian too).
Anyway, I appreciate the difficult job that cops have, and I understand that most of them are decent folk. But more and more you're going to see "cop bashing" here and elsewhere among law abiding folk until we return this country to the values it was built upon (both politically and culturally).
Interesting thoughts. I can't disagree on some points. However, let me be the devil advocate here.
The cops aren't going to protect the hose draggers, just because they are firemen. There isn't a union we all are in and we aren't "union brothers". They got theirs, the IAFF and we got ours, the FOP. We are polite to each other out of respect for public service, but no different than we are to the military. I am an equal opportunity handcuffer. I put the metal bracelets on anyone and everyone. I'm sorry your experience with the CSPD wasn't a positive one. I can't train each and every officer in Colorado. I trained a bunch of them over the years and now, I police them.
You state, "More and more when law abiding folk find themselves dealing with the police they are experiencing the same thing (only part of this is really the fault of the officers involved, the fact that government has an increasingly hostile attitude toward the people certainly puts the police in a bad position)." That is true. However, we as cops are also getting the piss-poor, "I pay your salary" attitude from the general public everyday in most of the most basic interactions with people. The general population is angry at their government(s) and take it out on the visible entity of government: the cops. They expect CSI to be at their door for everything and get upset when DNA or fingerprints aren't taken for a car break in.
You state, "The other problem is the culture developing within law enforcement. Too many police seem to see themselves as separate from the people (can't tell you how much it drives me nuts to hear police officers refer to their fellow citizens as "civilians" ... I have news for you bub based on the Posse Comitatus Act YOU are a civilian too)." Frankly, that's been the attitude of law enforcement since the 1960's. It is a culture, no different than the military in which it models after, that calls non-military personnel "civilians". There is a separation between the masses and parts of the population, right or wrong, good or bad.
So, there is room for improvement on all sides. We can agree on a number of points and disagree on some others. The best thing that people forget is, we can have that discussion and argument. Try that in another country like Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Ivory Coast, Sudan, etc.
CBI is probably there and they have confiscated his puter.
Seamonkey
03-20-2011, 20:22
I am an equal opportunity handcuffer.
[ROFL1]
made me spill my beer damn it!
Should have put 2 or 3 (or 13 if you have a 9mm [ROFL1]) in him and let the bat as evidence speak for itself as it laid in a puddle... [AR15]
pretty much what I was thinking. just think....you could have saved us quite a bit in tax money as well as got this fucking d-bag off the street.
in all seriousness, you did the right thing....except for the need to rack your slide, and I don't know why you would put the gun down. I would have told him to drop on his face and hold him there while my wife phoned the cops. then press charges on his ass. I figure if I pull my gun, one of the next actions would be to notify the cops and let them know i was the good guy in the situation.
ldmaster
03-20-2011, 20:46
You were the victim of a crime.
I wouldn't have racked the slide, but frankly I never carry a gun that's not chambered in the first place. HAVING to rack the slide in the presence of another person can be construed as "menacing", if the other indicators aren't clear (which it appears yours were). An unloaded gun is just a bad idea. That aside though...
I don't know what you said in your statement, really I don't, but you couldn't have said anything that would help you avoid some charge.
There is no law requiring you to report this crime. I would have kept the bat and not called the police. It's my experience that this kind of thing is a 50/50 chance of getting cited yourself. There is nothing preventing the police from contacting the other guy, charging him with menacing, and charging YOU with menacing.
What can happen?
The bad guy will suddenly sprout several eyewitnesses that claim that you jumped out of your car at a stoplight and came to their window. AFter all, you do state that you were "cut off" - being the person that was cut off, it would be understandable that you might be upset.
I'm not kidding on this. Suddenly you and your wife are two witnesses against five. Doesn't matter that you're a "good guy"...
OK, another true story.
I was out and about (working) when I watched a kid get jumped by three guys who drove up to the kids yard, jump out of the car and beat him to the ground. Some folks broke it up (large crowd by then) and the bad guys ran.
I was a witness, as well as several others.
In court the main actor was acquitted. Why? He had seven different people state that he wasn't even there.
The other two had charges dropped after this.
It didn't matter that I and two other people (inlcluding the victim) ID'd the defendant in open court. I wasn't there for the whole thing (excluded) but it happened.
It isn't what is true and honest, it's what you can PROVE.
You can only prove one thing, that you have a bat that was in his possession at some time.
So, maybe his story goes like this:
"Hey officer, I was like, in front of this white dude who was swearing and cussing at me. When we got to the light, he got out of his car and ran up on me, cussing some more. I was scared so I jumped out and grabbed the bat from my baseball bag, and he pulls this black gun (he can describe it now, that you've shown it to him) out and starts calling me a "spic" and a "wetback" and telling me to go back to Mexico... I heard he even posted about it on some website AND he used racial epithets there too!"
"So I just dropped the bat and said sorry and begged for him not to kill me, he let me get in my car and I left."
"I was so scared because this crazy white dude had a shaved head like an ARyan Nations/Skinhead. I was just going to my daughters birthday and Chuck E Cheese and didn't expect this, I had my whole family with me - they're witnesses too"
Again, you can only prove that you had a bat that used to be in his possession, HOW you got it is subject to guesswork - it's not really evidence against him. What the police have at this very moment is your WRITTEN STATEMENT (I'm guessing about this, but did you sign one?) that you displayed a gun and even loaded it so that he could see you do it.
You confessed to doing something. That you called first is irrelevant. This other guy hasn't confessed to even BEING there. Whoever owns the car you can bet will claim he wasn't driving.
Did you do anything wrong? No, if what you say is true, you did not. But it doesn't matter if you were just defending yourself, you just gave the police an admission that you menaced somebody. The ONLY defense to menacing is that you were using lawful force to defend yourself or another near you, from harm.
You were in a car, ostensibly, you could have just driven away and the only thing you would have risked was a dent in your car. But you chose to jump OUT of the car that was protecting you, and display your gun to someone.
See where I'm going with this? Sure, nobody wants his car dented - but the ONLY reason you could have offered to use your gun in self-defense was to defend yourself from a potentially life-threatening attack. The law doesn't say you have to run away, but your act of jumping from the car was to defend your property (to most people, that's the way it would look) - by jumping from the car (that could have gotten you away from there) you placed yourself in harms way - and the law says you can't intentionally create the situation that you have to defend yourself in.
If the cops call you again, I would have nothing else to say, seriously - tell them you're talking to an attorney and that you have nothing further to add.
Then call an attorney.
It doesn't mean the "right" thing wont happen, it means that once you defend yourself your "defense" of yourself is just beginning.
I can't tell you how many times during an interview a story like yours turns into something ENTIRELY different. I'm not saying you're a liar, but cops get lied to all the time, they're LOOKING for you to lie in some cases. While you were thinking that this cop was "on your side" and "cool" HE was thinking that he needed to be sure to act sympathetic so that you would give him enough evidence to arrest you.
You can do yourself no good by continuing to talk to them. If a detective calls you, you need to specifically ask him if he's made an arrest yet - and say nothing more.
Really.
Zundfolge
03-20-2011, 21:14
The cops aren't going to protect the hose draggers, just because they are firemen.
In all honesty I suspect that the particular detective I dealt with was more lazy than anything else. I also think he wasted so much time investigating me that he moved on to something else by the time he realized he was wrong.
My great fear is that the gun stolen from me is going to end up being used against a "good guy" ... cop or "civilian" (the thief also stole some prescription pain killers, so my guess is he ended up trading the gun for drugs ... so we know it probably ended up in real bad hands).
So, there is room for improvement on all sides. We can agree on a number of points and disagree on some others.Agreed (and disagreed ... which would be agreement too right?). And its not just law enforcement ... I think we're just witnessing one of the many effects of a culture in decline.
ldmaster makes a ton of good points ... and the fact that his points are valid kind of proves the point that the police are not on the side of the law abiding citizenry ... its their job to find and arrest criminals. Thing is THEY get to decide which "criminals" to arrest and which to treat as "victims".
This isn't an indictment of the police, its an indictment of the system (and the system puts the police in the unenviable position of seeing ALL of us as potential criminals).
Couple questions:
1) Why did you rack the slide? You carry on an empty chamber?
2) Why did you put it on the dashboard?
Had something else here, decided to take it down upon further review. Ok, so, who is the ugly fat guy in undies on the names with faces or whatever thread? That shit should be illegal in itself.
LoneStar
03-20-2011, 23:25
Nah I think your good. When it comes to the family, there is nothing I wouldnt do. If thats what you felt would take care of it, then in my eyes you did everything right law be damned. My .02. I expect change back when I put it out there. The only dig is calling the cops. Im surprised they even came out, and when they did didnt slap you in cuffs. They are above the law themselves and look down on us scummy civilians. (sorry OneGuy, just take it as opinions are like assholes, or maybe I am...not sure)
DeusExMachina
03-20-2011, 23:43
So you got out of the car, or no? I don't get the part where you get out, draw, rack the slide and then put the gun back in the car. I would have held on to the gun, its kind of useless on the dashboard.
Probably a good idea you called police, as if he called them you would be looking at a menacing charge.
ldmaster
03-20-2011, 23:46
I am on your side on this, but don't you get it?
Stop talking!!!!
You JUST SAID that you weren't really afraid of the guy with the bat, that you could have taken it from him and beat him with it. It doesn't matter that you threw in the caveat about being with your family, a prosecuting attorney will hand you your ass if you made a statement like that to the police.
it's simply true that MOST criminals who make statements pretty much convict themselves. Innocent people do too, because they were "trying to clear things up" or "Just trying to let the cops know what I was thinking"
It doesn't paint you as someone "afraid for his life".
Just sayin....
Why dont cops get arrested for this stuff? Is it because we're JUST THAT good?
nah...
It's because cops know what to say, and more importantly, what NOT to say...
You get into an incident off-duty, it gets to your department - guaranteed!
You'll say "I was afraid for my life", "He came at me and I thought he was going to swing", "When he started coming at me, I pulled my weapon and called out, "Police, drop your weapon!!!"
You'll NEVER say, "He was just some punk trying to prove something, so I flashed my piece and he ran away like some sissy..." "I'm a huge weightlifter, and I'm pretty tough, I figured he got lucky that I didn't beat him unconscious and leave him for dead."
It's why cops don't (generally) even get charged. We, generally, don't make stupid statements in a PUBLIC FORUM. Heck, even in a private forum!
Byte Stryke
03-20-2011, 23:54
I am on your side on this, but don't you get it?
Stop talking!!!!
You JUST SAID that you weren't really afraid of the guy with the bat, that you could have taken it from him and beat him with it.
It doesn't paint you as someone "afraid for his life".
Just sayin....
Why dont cops get arrested for this stuff? Is it because we're JUST THAT good?
nah...
It's because cops know what to say, and more importantly, what NOT to say...
You get into an incident off-duty, it gets to your department - guaranteed!
You'll say "I was afraid for my life", "He came at me and I thought he was going to swing", "When he started coming at me, I pulled my weapon and called out, "Police, drop your weapon!!!"
You'll NEVER say, "He was just some punk trying to prove something, so I flashed my piece and he ran away like some sissy..." "I'm a huge weightlifter, and I'm pretty tough, I figured he got lucky that I didn't beat him unconscious and leave him for dead."
It's why cops don't (generally) even get charged. We, generally, don't make stupid statements in a PUBLIC FORUM. Heck, even in a private forum!
agree.
let it go and keep it between you and an attorney
agree.
let it go and keep it between you and an attorney
Good point.
Have to say I agree,
My dad is an lawyer and I am a dumb s&$t.
I was taught early it is in my best interest, to keep my mouth shut, don't need to lie, but don't need to say anything either, and for sure don't write anything. in fact, I should delete this.
The process can be slow, but there is no need to sink your own ship by talking before you think about it or ask someone who knows the rules of the game what they think first.
They will follow up on the license plate. Any patrol officer will.
Got to love the anti-cop crowd here on the forum. Makes me wonder why I bother to help the public when there are haters like those on the forum that want to second guess and Monday quarterback everything.
When I got jumped by two guys in a parking lot, on camera, and the license plate of the car they drove away in was caught on camera, exactly nothing was done about it. Sure, the detective called the people, but they said they didn't want to come down to talk. Case closed.
Also, everything ldmaster said. I would delete this whole post myself.
In terms of the hating on cops thing, I think that it is a misrepresentation.
I get the feeling most of "us" are pissed, not at cops but at the system, in which we worry about crap so trivial as 922r compliance and speeding and know people rob, cheat, murder and steal all the time and not get busted for it. This is a bad break for the cops as they are the public face of the "system."
The other thing is the "civilian" thing really should get the axe, any of you cops reading this might want to start the movement, it pisses people off that don't need to be pissed off. cops are civilians, acting like you're not makes us different and that will lose you support that should very easily be in your back pocket. I mean a bunch of guys so afraid of law breakers we gun up, take classes, practice, and prep the tin-foil, should really like the police, we are on the same team.
'But every time I hear "civilians" out of a cops mouth, in reference to not them, it sounds like a power trip.
Also, it gets into the "modeled after the military thing." Many freedom loving types (read:Americans) in general stick very fervently to the rule that the .mil can't act here against civilians, and that doesn't mean cops can just become a de-facto military and everything is OK. It is very un-OK, this is why a lot of law abiding guys hate no-knock raids. We guard our Constitution and our rights vigorously, and good intentions or not, it is best to tread lightly when infringing upon them.
I take pride in being a civilian of this country, its not so bad.
Honestly, I am friends with a lot of cops, I have liked most of them, unless they get on the "civilians" kick hard, then they seem like dicks, but other than that, they are just guys like any of us looking to put food on the table and buy some cool crap now and again.
I guess it comes down to this for me, in health care, we are badgered that every patient is different. It seems to me that in law enforcement, we are all seen as scum bag criminals trying to lie to you. I am not a scum bag, I've tried to lead a good life. If you showed up at my hospital and I pumped you full of Narcan because I just assumed everyone was a drug addict, you'd be pissed, rightfully, please don't assume that I'm trying to rob somebody.
mcantar18c
03-21-2011, 02:30
Also, it gets into the "modeled after the military thing." Many freedom loving types (read:Americans) in general stick very fervently to the rule that the .mil can't act here against civilians, and that doesn't mean cops can just become a de-facto military and everything is OK. It is very un-OK, this is why a lot of law abiding guys hate no-knock raids. We guard our Constitution and our rights vigorously, and good intentions or not, it is best to tread lightly when infringing upon them.
The OP won't, or at least shouldn't, say anything further about what happened, so in the interest of a good thread derail, can someone please explain to me how no-knock raids are even legal? Seems like something the Supreme Court should have shot down.
Whenever I hear "no-knock raid" I can't help but imagine a swat team busting through my door unannounced at 3am, and I end up killing one or more with the shotgun that lives by my bed because all I know is somebody just broke down my door. I can guarantee I'd be sent away for the rest of my life, justified or not there's no way out of killing a cop.
I just don't understand how to legally justify a no-knock raid.
anyone mind telling me what the spic banter in this thread means?
colocowboy01
03-21-2011, 06:29
They will follow up on the license plate. Any patrol officer will.
Got to love the anti-cop crowd here on the forum. Makes me wonder why I bother to help the public when there are haters like those on the forum that want to second guess and Monday quarterback everything.
I wish I could play the martyr card and twist people's words out of context to give me something to whine about every time someone talked about my job.[Rant1] Nobody had said anything about the cops not doing their job, just that the bad guy has no legal leg to stand on meaning there is not much of a case, so the case probably will not be pushed to the limit with lights and sirens going.
None of you know how tiring it is to be welding 10-12 hours a day in the hot summer while trying to keep a crew of guys focused and working also. But, you want your construction to keep going so the economy will recover and your counties and cities can keep collecting more taxes so they don't have to lay the cops off. Makes me wonder why I bother to go to work, maybe I should call everyone haters that gets upset that traffic has to be shut down so the that the electrical vaults I help make all get put in the ground, so you can turn your lights on at night. HATERS[Beer]
JohnTRourke
03-21-2011, 06:33
Talk to some of your "brothers in blue" then. Its not like the growing tension between police and the law abiding citizenry is purely a case of tin-foil-hattery and irrational hatin'.
Last couple of times I've had dealings with the police as a victim of crime I've been treated either with disinterest or as a potential criminal to be investigated (had a gun stolen from my home during a real estate inspection and after I got a copy of the police report for insurance I discovered that the CSPD "Detective" spent his entire time investigating ME for "Filing a False Report" and flirting with one of the witnesses ... after I eventually submitted to a polygraph he realized I wasn't lying ... apparently nothing further was done and the primary suspect was ignored. I suspect its because he was a firefighter moonlighting as a home inspector ... Cops don't seem interested in going after one of their union brothers).
More and more when law abiding folk find themselves dealing with the police they are experiencing the same thing (only part of this is really the fault of the officers involved, the fact that government has an increasingly hostile attitude toward the people certainly puts the police in a bad position).
The problem is two fold, Part of the problem is the fact that politicians are making America a less free place with the law based less and less on the Constitution. The other problem is the culture developing within law enforcement. Too many police seem to see themselves as separate from the people (can't tell you how much it drives me nuts to hear police officers refer to their fellow citizens as "civilians" ... I have news for you bub based on the Posse Comitatus Act YOU are a civilian too).
Anyway, I appreciate the difficult job that cops have, and I understand that most of them are decent folk. But more and more you're going to see "cop bashing" here and elsewhere among law abiding folk until we return this country to the values it was built upon (both politically and culturally).
where's the picture of the guy clapping?
well said.
Wait, so the guy just left a perfectly good bat and drove away? Who does that in this economy?
Byte Stryke
03-21-2011, 09:43
practice, and prep the tin-foil, should really like the police, we are on the same team.
'But every time I hear "civilians" out of a cops mouth, in reference to not them, it sounds like a power trip.
Also, it gets into the "modeled after the military thing." Many freedom loving types (read:Americans) in general stick very fervently to the rule that the .mil can't act here against civilians, and that doesn't mean cops can just become a de-facto military and everything is OK. It is very un-OK, this is why a lot of law abiding guys hate no-knock raids. We guard our Constitution and our rights vigorously, and good intentions or not, it is best to tread lightly when infringing upon them.
I take pride in being a civilian of this country, its not so bad.
Honestly, I am friends with a lot of cops, I have liked most of them, unless they get on the "civilians" kick hard, then they seem like dicks, but other than that, they are just guys like any of us looking to put food on the table and buy some cool crap now and again.
Cops are civilians too.
I have no fucking clue how in the hell they think that wearing a blue uniform and doing no-knocks at the local Krispy-Kreme makes them military, but it doesn't work like that.
Now if they have prior military, that's different. Wearing a badge and a gun makes you a public servant, Just like a firefighter, EMT, meter maid.
They all have very dangerous jobs as well. No better or worse than anyone else.
I hear cops talking sometimes and it repulses me.
"fucking civilians"
"fuck it, I'm a cop..."
as if they are better than everyone else.
and then you wonder why no one wants to talk to "cops".
The OP won't, or at least shouldn't, say anything further about what happened, so in the interest of a good thread derail, can someone please explain to me how no-knock raids are even legal? Seems like something the Supreme Court should have shot down.
Whenever I hear "no-knock raid" I can't help but imagine a swat team busting through my door unannounced at 3am, and I end up killing one or more with the shotgun that lives by my bed because all I know is somebody just broke down my door. I can guarantee I'd be sent away for the rest of my life, justified or not there's no way out of killing a cop.
I just don't understand how to legally justify a no-knock raid.
Don't get me started on this.
There is a reason that we have separate channels for phones, because with everyone talking at once its unintelligible.
6 guys breaking into my house wearing black at nice shouting all at the same time is not only absolutely stupid, it's unconstitutional.
While I Do not like the demeanor of some cops, I have no desire to shoot one.
That is exactly what will happen at 3am, I Will assume its a home invasion, 6 guys screaming something all over each other does not constitute "proper identification" and I have voted as much in a jury.
The only thing worse than violating someones constitutional rights, Their home and then taking their life at the wrong address is then not accepting full responsibility for their actions.
DeusExMachina
03-21-2011, 09:45
I think you need a new keyboard, your shift key sticks randomly.
Byte Stryke
03-21-2011, 09:46
I think you need a new keyboard, your shift key sticks randomly.
I FiXeD iT fOr yOu, iT'S a Bad haBiT I HaVe.
;)
ronaldrwl
03-21-2011, 10:13
To be honest I wouldn't have told the police anything. I would keep the bat and go on my merry way.
But my CC class instructor does recommend that you do report anytime you draw your gun on someone encase the bad guy reports you first.
You probably shouldn't say anything on the forum.
Byte Stryke
03-21-2011, 10:25
To be honest I wouldn't have told the police anything. I would keep the bat and go on my merry way.
But my CC class instructor does recommend that you do report anytime you draw your gun on someone in case the bad guy reports you first.
You probably shouldn't say anything on the forum.
I fixed it for you before Deus jumps into the grammar Nazi mobile again.
[ROFL1]
DeusExMachina
03-21-2011, 10:27
I fixed it for you before Deus jumps into the grammar Nazi mobile again.
[ROFL1]
Actually, I corrected your improper capitalization, not your grammar. I'm sure it could use some work though.
ronaldrwl
03-21-2011, 10:40
I fixed it for you before Deus jumps into the grammar Nazi mobile again.
[ROFL1]
Hmm, no I wanted to encase him in cement.
CrufflerSteve
03-21-2011, 10:44
I wish this thread would go away ASAP to protect the originator. If it was discovered later, the authorities know the magical mods could retrieve it but it would be one less worry.
I know the LEO's here are complaining about the cop bashing but these attitudes have been a long time coming. I grew up in a small town and the small police force all knew who my Dad & Grandfather were. One of the worst threats was to tell my Dad or even worse - drive me home in a police car. These guys were members of the community and everybody knew them.
I think the war on drugs killed this. As powers were expanded to seizing property and no-knock raids it caused a lot of changes. The rank and file might not have been thrilled but power hungry DA's and others pushed this. Once all the money came down for those ninja outfits it was over. I can see why many minority communities see the police as a military occupying force.
My last experience with a police officer was a speeding ticket near my home. He was an arrogant jerk who didn't even know the speed signs and threatened to arrest me after I pointed it out once. I went to court and won and the jerk left the court muttering threats. I fail to see how someone like that is a credit to any police force worth respect.
MODS - Please delete this whole thread!
Steve
OneGuy67
03-21-2011, 10:53
In terms of the hating on cops thing, I think that it is a misrepresentation.
I get the feeling most of "us" are pissed, not at cops but at the system, in which we worry about crap so trivial as 922r compliance and speeding and know people rob, cheat, murder and steal all the time and not get busted for it. This is a bad break for the cops as they are the public face of the "system."
The other thing is the "civilian" thing really should get the axe, any of you cops reading this might want to start the movement, it pisses people off that don't need to be pissed off. cops are civilians, acting like you're not makes us different and that will lose you support that should very easily be in your back pocket. I mean a bunch of guys so afraid of law breakers we gun up, take classes, practice, and prep the tin-foil, should really like the police, we are on the same team.
'But every time I hear "civilians" out of a cops mouth, in reference to not them, it sounds like a power trip.
Also, it gets into the "modeled after the military thing." Many freedom loving types (read:Americans) in general stick very fervently to the rule that the .mil can't act here against civilians, and that doesn't mean cops can just become a de-facto military and everything is OK. It is very un-OK, this is why a lot of law abiding guys hate no-knock raids. We guard our Constitution and our rights vigorously, and good intentions or not, it is best to tread lightly when infringing upon them.
I take pride in being a civilian of this country, its not so bad.
Honestly, I am friends with a lot of cops, I have liked most of them, unless they get on the "civilians" kick hard, then they seem like dicks, but other than that, they are just guys like any of us looking to put food on the table and buy some cool crap now and again.
I guess it comes down to this for me, in health care, we are badgered that every patient is different. It seems to me that in law enforcement, we are all seen as scum bag criminals trying to lie to you. I am not a scum bag, I've tried to lead a good life. If you showed up at my hospital and I pumped you full of Narcan because I just assumed everyone was a drug addict, you'd be pissed, rightfully, please don't assume that I'm trying to rob somebody.
Whether you think cops are civilians or not, really isn't the issue. After being a cop for a period of time, it does change your perspective and how people treat you to the point that the belief system changes as well. I remember while I was in the academy so long ago, one of the instructors told us we would lose all our non-cop friends over the course of the next few years and I didn't believe it. Coming off of active duty, I had close, tight friends who I thought I would be close to for the rest of my life. No so. They do tend to drift away, as your experiences and their experiences do not match and the common ground disappears. After 20 years, I don't have any close non-law enforcement friends.
I can't tell you how many times when I was younger and my wife and I were invited to a social gathering (party) and some wise ass has to announce the cops are here or the bacon is here or some other smart ass comment and then the platitudes similar to what is being said here, of we support the cops, blah, blah, blah. Then, there is the eventual conversation when someone has enough alcohol in their system to develop courage to ask about marijuana and how unfair it is they can't spark up whenever they want, the latest DUI they got, how the cops didn't treat them fairly at the last traffic contact, etc, etc, etc. This causes a disconnect. We don't go to those gatherings anymore; our friends are all related to law enforcement now.
We are not on the same team. Law enforcement is mandated to investigate, to gather information, and to present information, in the simplist of terms. We enforce laws. We don't make the laws. I once was called to a robbery in progress at a King Soopers and I arrived on scene while the suspect was still in the building. There was a guy standing outside who demanded my backup gun so he could help me. Sorry. Ain't gonna need your help. I've also had to wrestle with a bad guy a time or two and I've had people jump on and help me subdue the guy. Thanks! I needed that help. The sooner he's subdued, the less chance of injury to me or to him. Less chance of a lawsuit.
As for the military model, you mis-understand. All law enforcement is based on the military model of rank structure, component structure and discipline. Discipline less nowadays, but way back in the day, there used to be formations and inspections in formation, very similar to what the military still does. Uniformity, appearance standards, etc. That is what is meant by the military model.
However, I will say that there is trend that I'm not comfortable with that is emerging with the young officers and that is how they are becoming more and more in appearance like their military bretheren. I blame that on the companies that cater to law enforcement's goods and needs. They have been successful in selling equipment to the "new" military, the "new" civilian market (all that new high speed gear you all like to buy) and it naturally trickles down to law enforcement. When I go to these small towns and counties I deal with and see the officers all tacticaled up, I wonder if it is because of "big city" law enforcement envy, the publications showing/talking about all the new equipment and their thinking they need that stuff, or the desire to "look cool" with all the equipment the military uses that is now being presented to law enforcement as law enforcement tools.
I would get into a large discussion on the Constitution, since it seems everyone likes to throw that around implying that we enjoy trampling on it or are violating it on a regular basis. The Constitution establishes three branches of government. The Legislative, the Executive and the Judicial. It authorizes all three to perform their separate, distinctly different tasks. Your issue is with how those people in all three branches have gone about their jobs and the end result. What cops do and how we perform our jobs are based upon the results of what has come down from primarily the Legislative and the Judicial branches. Your argument, I believe, is that the people in those branches aren't following the letter or the spirit or both of the Constitution as originally intended or alleged as written. Unless any one of us was there at the time, we don't know exactly what the founding fathers intended. There is no written documentation to the discussions that went on during the drafting; only their individual writings, diaries or letters to others after the fact. I'm currently reading the biography of John Adams, which gives some interesting insight to the man, and the process of the Continental Congress.
Sorry for the large rant. I'm happy to discuss issues with people with a civil tongue.
OneGuy67
03-21-2011, 10:56
I wish I could play the martyr card and twist people's words out of context to give me something to whine about every time someone talked about my job.[Rant1] Nobody had said anything about the cops not doing their job, just that the bad guy has no legal leg to stand on meaning there is not much of a case, so the case probably will not be pushed to the limit with lights and sirens going.
None of you know how tiring it is to be welding 10-12 hours a day in the hot summer while trying to keep a crew of guys focused and working also. But, you want your construction to keep going so the economy will recover and your counties and cities can keep collecting more taxes so they don't have to lay the cops off. Makes me wonder why I bother to go to work, maybe I should call everyone haters that gets upset that traffic has to be shut down so the that the electrical vaults I help make all get put in the ground, so you can turn your lights on at night. HATERS[Beer]
Yeah, when you've been here on the forum awhile, you'll see what I mean. It tends to feed on itself and everyone's angst and anger comes out through their writings.
OneGuy67
03-21-2011, 11:04
I wish this thread would go away ASAP to protect the originator. If it was discovered later, the authorities know the magical mods could retrieve it but it would be one less worry.
I know the LEO's here are complaining about the cop bashing but these attitudes have been a long time coming. I grew up in a small town and the small police force all knew who my Dad & Grandfather were. One of the worst threats was to tell my Dad or even worse - drive me home in a police car. These guys were members of the community and everybody knew them.
I think the war on drugs killed this. As powers were expanded to seizing property and no-knock raids it caused a lot of changes. The rank and file might not have been thrilled but power hungry DA's and others pushed this. Once all the money came down for those ninja outfits it was over. I can see why many minority communities see the police as a military occupying force.
My last experience with a police officer was a speeding ticket near my home. He was an arrogant jerk who didn't even know the speed signs and threatened to arrest me after I pointed it out once. I went to court and won and the jerk left the court muttering threats. I fail to see how someone like that is a credit to any police force worth respect.
MODS - Please delete this whole thread!
Steve
There is no need to delete it. If we take what Idmaster has stated and twisted it so much to believe Spyder did something wrong, there is still the need to provide probable cause that Spyder was in the wrong. That isn't going to happen, based upon his statements or the statements he has made here.
Once again, there are platitudes to law enforcement, but the first thing you run to, is to hide as though you've done something wrong. If you've done nothing wrong, why hide? I believe Spyder did the right thing, but what do I know? After all, I'm one of those bad guys you all are hiding from.
Zundfolge
03-21-2011, 11:16
OneGuy67, you're in the unenviable position of being a cop on a gun forum.
Chances are the fact that you post here means you're probably one of the "good ones" so you just need to realize that you don't have to defend the "bad ones" on the force ... of course the over arching debate is "Are there more good cops than bad ones today and is the number of bad ones going up or down?"
I've known a lot of cops over the years. My parents (who live in Wichita Kansas) have had a cop living next door for the last 20 or so years and he's one of the good ones (although his firearm handling and maintenance skills are somewhat lacking ... I'm glad he's been riding a desk the last few years for his own safety).
I was raised to trust and respect the police so I have to believe there was a time when they were better than they are today. More good cops need to rise in the ranks and keep the young ones in line and stand up to the political leadership (unfortunately police departments are political in nature, like any other large organization so the best tend not to rise to the top, just the better connected and those that will play the political games).
If you've done nothing wrong, why hide?Because more and more "right and wrong" have nothing to do with "legal and illegal".
OneGuy67
03-21-2011, 11:35
OneGuy67, you're in the unenviable position of being a cop on a gun forum.
Chances are the fact that you post here means you're probably one of the "good ones" so you just need to realize that you don't have to defend the "bad ones" on the force ... of course the over arching debate is "Are there more good cops than bad ones today and is the number of bad ones going up or down?"
I've known a lot of cops over the years. My parents (who live in Wichita Kansas) have had a cop living next door for the last 20 or so years and he's one of the good ones (although his firearm handling and maintenance skills are somewhat lacking ... I'm glad he's been riding a desk the last few years for his own safety).
I was raised to trust and respect the police so I have to believe there was a time when they were better than they are today. More good cops need to rise in the ranks and keep the young ones in line and stand up to the political leadership (unfortunately police departments are political in nature, like any other large organization so the best tend not to rise to the top, just the better connected and those that will play the political games).
Because more and more "right and wrong" have nothing to do with "legal and illegal".
I agree. I'm swimming against the tide on this forum. For the most part, I just read and do not respond unless someone asks a question. Occasionally, something irritates me and I feel the need to answer the shot over the bow, so to speak.
I don't defend bad cops; my current job includes the investigation of bad cops. I like doing that as I don't want the bad apple in the barrel. However, many people believe there are bad cops when there isn't, because an investigation didn't go the way they wanted it to or have the ending they wanted, the cops must be bad.
We are going to have to disagree on the "right" and "wrong" having nothing to do with "legal" and "illegal".
Byte Stryke
03-21-2011, 11:48
I agree. I'm swimming against the tide on this forum. For the most part, I just read and do not respond unless someone asks a question. Occasionally, something irritates me and I feel the need to answer the shot over the bow, so to speak.
I don't defend bad cops; my current job includes the investigation of bad cops. I like doing that as I don't want the bad apple in the barrel. However, many people believe there are bad cops when there isn't, because an investigation didn't go the way they wanted it to or have the ending they wanted, the cops must be bad.
We are going to have to disagree on the "right" and "wrong" having nothing to do with "legal" and "illegal".
I have to ask.
Doesn't it raise your ire to find a bad cop and know that the general populaces opinion is, if only somewhat, correct?
and by bad cop, I don't necessarily mean that he is killing people or on the take, but just that he is not performing/abusing his job as he should and in a manner that brings distrust to the force.
OneGuy67
03-21-2011, 12:59
I have to ask.
Doesn't it raise your ire to find a bad cop and know that the general populaces opinion is, if only somewhat, correct?
and by bad cop, I don't necessarily mean that he is killing people or on the take, but just that he is not performing/abusing his job as he should and in a manner that brings distrust to the force.
Byte,
I'm never going to win here, as the general opinion of the forum is against me. I can name 100 positive things for every negative one posted, but that wouldn't matter. In fact, a number of the anti-cop things you've posted over the past year came from other states and not here. I can't defend against those, as they have different standards. I was in Michigan once for training and learned they hire 19-year olds as cops. No education, no life experience, nothing. I can't defend against that. That has stupid written all over it.
It raises my anger when there is someone who truly is discrediting the badge and what it symbolizes and the responsibility that goes with it. It also raises my anger when there are people who criticize and have no understanding, or see things from a very limited point of view without regard to the bigger picture. Same goes for those who attack the military and want to socialize it.
I'm never going to win here, as the general opinion of the forum is against me. I can name 100 positive things for every negative one posted, but that wouldn't matter
Well I'm against the General opinion.. I grew up in a LE family.. plenty of LE friends.. I know there are good ones and bad ones. I've run into more 'good' than 'bad'..but the bad ones stand out for sure. Not sure i've ever mentioned good dealings to anyone but my LE buddies. The bad ones get told though.. I should work on that.
Byte Stryke
03-21-2011, 13:34
Byte,
It raises my anger when there is someone who truly is discrediting the badge and what it symbolizes and the responsibility that goes with it. It also raises my anger when there are people who criticize and have no understanding, or see things from a very limited point of view without regard to the bigger picture. Same goes for those who attack the military and want to socialize it.
this is the answer I had asked about... I deleted the other part from your quote due to lack of relevance the the question.
as for my "limited point of view"
My Brother is your "Brother", we will leave it at that.
Military thing, When a Police officer can get a call at 2am and be on a plane for the other side of the planet before sunrise not knowing if/when he gets to come home... THEN I will say he's military.
I don't envy your position on this forum. I appreciate it.
You, obviously are one of the good guys, I do not fault you for the faults of the LEO Community anymore than you blame me when the "interwebs R borked".
I appreciate your input and candor. It does offer a different perspective.
I am jaded, I admit. but that doesn't mean I cannot be convinced :D
Byte Stryke
03-21-2011, 13:38
Whose fingerprints are on the bat are pretty irrelevant)
wut u sez?
I want that bat sent to trace, I want to know everyone that handled it, when it was made and where. I want to talk to the person that painted the damned thing before the next commercial break!!
[LOL]
"Can't we all just get along"
Sry had too...
OneGuy67
03-21-2011, 13:54
this is the answer I had asked about... I deleted the other part from your quote due to lack of relevance the the question.
as for my "limited point of view"
My Brother is your "Brother", we will leave it at that.
Military thing, When a Police officer can get a call at 2am and be on a plane for the other side of the planet before sunrise not knowing if/when he gets to come home... THEN I will say he's military.
I don't envy your position on this forum. I appreciate it.
You, obviously are one of the good guys, I do not fault you for the faults of the LEO Community anymore than you blame me when the "interwebs R borked".
I appreciate your input and candor. It does offer a different perspective.
I am jaded, I admit. but that doesn't mean I cannot be convinced :D
We'll have to get that beer soon and chat!
Some of you guys seem to armchair quarterback the ultra-simple into a CSI murder case.
Real world: Nobody gives a shit. Sad truth. Gangbanger isn't going to court. Neither is driver. Cop files report. Little paragraph in blotter. Life goes on.
That is my opinion as well. I don't see it going anywhere. The report will get taken, they might put out something that says to watch for such and such plate # and it will get lost in translation.
No one was injured, no shots fired, no vehicle damage.
spyder, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I wouldn't say a whole lot more to the cops other than you were in fear for your life and took the necessary steps to defend yourself and your family, and in the end it worked out well, no shots were fired, the guy drove off and things are fine now.
Whut kinda bat? Louisville, or cheapy china bat?
was this jefferson county, if so i think it will end like this.
offender is interviewed, they see he is illegal and you violated his rights and you are booked and we hear your stoy on the pete boyles show.
Dont you know the rule, Never invite the law into your life.
Byte Stryke
03-21-2011, 16:56
was this jefferson county, if so i think it will end like this.
offender is interviewed, they see he is illegal and you violated his rights and you are booked and we hear your stoy on the pete boyles show.
Dont you know the rule, Never invite the law into your life.
wow... and I thought I was jaded
[Eek3]
colocowboy01
03-21-2011, 17:24
Yeah, when you've been here on the forum awhile, you'll see what I mean. It tends to feed on itself and everyone's angst and anger comes out through their writings.
I think that you were trying to make something out of nothing in this forum thread. What was said by whom that was anti-cop before your first post?
Whut kinda bat? Louisville, or cheapy china bat?
Cheap, foreign made Sunday Afternoon Special....there oughta be a law!![Rant1]
/sarcasm
[LOL]
was this jefferson county, if so i think it will end like this.
offender is interviewed, they see he is illegal and you violated his rights and you are booked and we hear your stoy on the pete boyles show.
Dont you know the rule, Never invite the law into your life.
You're exactly right, if this happened in Jeffco spyder will go to court for violating the illegal alien's rights. They'll take his guns and hand him a big fat fine.
Jeffco won't even investigate who committed arson (a felony) on Mr. Wallace's RV.
I live in Jeffco, I absolutely do not trust anyone in law enforcement or the judiciary to do the right thing.
I hope that changes when Scott Storey's term is up.
Sorry if I came off, off center, before, I was not trying to be a jerk. Frankly, trying to be very level headed about all of this, I think cops do this country a very valuable service, and on a whole I am very happy with it. But, we're Americans, we always have to fix stuff, and its the job of voting citizens of this country to arm chair quarterback, that's what it's all about.
A. cops are civilians, thats just the law. Calling people who are not cops civilians gives off a really bad vibe. I understand that you have been doing something else for years, but I am letting you know, its not helping anyone. Just for the sake of it, I understand the divide falls under the Posse Comitatus act dividing the powers of the military from the Coast Guard (recent move, see Dept. of Homeland Security) and civilian law enforcement, especially in regard to acting on US soil. I didn't bother to look up line and verse, that I will leave to those more interested. The divide is basically Military or not. Law enforcement is not military. While true, coloquially the term has been adopted by law enforcement groups, that doesn't make it true, and in this case, it is harmful to a tenuous working relationship, meaning it should be seriously addressed.
B. We all lose our friends, I spent 2 years on an ambulance, and then a few more in health care, and now nursing school, almost all my friends are in health care. Its just how it goes, and people "like" people in health care, they just don't want to hear about guts all day. People talking about a DUI at a party, don't get me started, I've all but diagnosed obstipation at a dinner party. Her stomach hurt, I palpated it and she had a whole pile of turd just sitting there. We don't hang out anymore.
C. I think you kind of nailed it, cops view everyone as jerks as they get treated like jerks a lot, this is true to be sure, as you said. But its not every time, I have had a lot of runs in with cops and I try to be very polite and respectful every time. This could be turned easilly, public views cops as jerks as they got treated by cops poorly once or twice, this happens, but I can say for sure, I have been treated well by cops for the most part.
This is just stereotyping. Until someone makes a move this isn't going to be fixed, and in my view, the only group that can change this is the police. Can't make the public become respectful all the sudden, they don't get paid.
D. In terms of the Constitution, you nailed it, if its a matter of interpretation, then it is fair someone else may interpret it differently. All I ask, is that the sensitive issues be viewed as such. A swat raid is not always in order, but I can understand why SWAT teams exist.
finally, cool guy stuff we all like to own, I don't even own a semi-auto anymore! I prefer bolt actions (no, I don't own a sniper rifle, and I am not a sniper) and revolvers. But I agree, there is a serious push to get cops and everyone else into "top tier" tactical stuff , and for the most part, it does look sexy and I think that's where it comes from. Can't ignore the "chicks dig it" factor, luckily for me, my wife has to dig it, or at least say she does, and thats good enough for me.
My fiance is hispanic and I love her to death. When I watch a Gangland episode about MS13, I'm not real excited to know any other hispanic people.
I have a good friend who owns a book store and is pretty liberal. We get along and don't begrudge each other about how we may feel about particular things. In general, I don't like even the idea of "liberals."
When I run into cops at the store, or my place of work, I find them polite and enjoy the conversation. When I watch hours of Youtube videos of the police beating the shit out of people who are walking their dog, holding a camera, or talking on the cell phone, then I don't like cops.
There is a difference between the way you can feel about a person as an individual, and the way you feel about a group of people.
Something to think about.
colocowboy01
03-21-2011, 19:41
When I run into cops at the store, or my place of work, I find them polite and enjoy the conversation. When I watch hours of Youtube videos of the police beating the shit out of people who are walking their dog, holding a camera, or talking on the cell phone, then I don't like cops.
There is a difference between the way you can feel about a person as an individual, and the way you feel about a group of people.
Something to think about.
Irving, Very well put!
I can pretty much promise if you were to show up at any one of our houses in need and you would find a hand, and beyond that, if you were getting your ass kicked or shot at in public, I assure you, I wouldn't have the bangers back. I think I speak for all of us.
If a cop ever asked me if I was going to spit in his pizza, I'd tell him it depended on if he'd ever been in a Youtube video before.
None of that would ever happen in real life of course, but I have to be prepared with an answer.
ldmaster
03-21-2011, 19:53
Probable cause existed when someone said that he racked his slide so that someone else could see him do it. Affirmative defense kicks in afterwards.
The constitution not only sets up the admin, but made a list of things that the government could NEVER do. The 4th amendment about search and seizure got watered down when some judge somewhere first decided that "getting the evidence" trumped a person's constitutional rights. It was supposed to be a VERY hard thing to get a warrant, now it's a boilerplate "affadavit" that's as common as toilet paper. Not a cop's fault it's turned that way.
I didn't get the thing about someone twisting my post, or my post being twisted? Don't understand what he was saying.
Everything I proposed COULD happen I have actually SEEN happen.
The jaded guy about Jefferson County? I am in total agreement with him.
Police departments have only really been around for about a Century as such. First incorporated as the private "enforcement" branch of a city council. Long before that was the County Sheriff, an elected official - who was an elected official simply because the idea that a law enforcement position would be a patronage job (the city council decides on who's the chief) was dangerous and threatened the rights of individuals. The Coroner got invented to balance the power of the Sheriff.
We are at a point with police agencies having very little to balance them that exists outside of their own agency. The FBI certainly investigates allegations of police misconduct if it falls into the right category - but what really keeps a police force in balance today is the video camera and what currently passes for "the press". Not too long ago if it was a bloodied and battered citizen claiming police brutality, the cop was believed EVERY time. The video camera was used to dismiss two cops in denver just last week - without it, the cop's story would have been believed.
Since I know that the police don't represent MY interests, I know where I land in the equation - and I always act accordingly.
I just LOVE the statement that someone who "has nothing to hide" should not be afraid to make a statement. It's not about that, it's about a person's CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to say nothing. A cop doesn't have the right, the government doesn't have the right - only the individual citizen has that right. Exercising a constitutional right should NEVER be called into question, or used as a basis for stating that someone is "hiding something"; that is the position of tyrants.
it used to be a basic tenet of criminal law that it was better that 100 actual guilty people go free, than 1 single innocent man spend time in jail.
Somewhere along the road we've forgotten that, and cops contribute to it simply by forgetting that they serve the public in "fact", not simply by working for a public agency.
Oh, and BTW, we don't do no-knock raids on Krispy Kreme, because they issue us a key to the back door!
BREATHER
03-21-2011, 20:05
I was a LEO in two different departments a very long time ago. Thank god I gave it up when I did. Not cuz I was afraid but:
1) there are a whole lot more assholes in law enforcement than you think and I do not care to hear about the "stress of the job". There are tons of jobs out there where people put their lives on the line in one way or another...
2) most "civilians" do not deserve police protection,,, why cuz there's a whole lot more assholes out there than you realize.
I beleive the police need "our " support, but they, the police, also need to give law abiding, legal gun owning citizens support also.We're all in the same boat when it comes to our elected officials stripping all of our rights slowly but surely... I've got more thoughts and theories but nows not the time or place.
OneGuy67
03-21-2011, 20:27
Sorry if I came off, off center, before, I was not trying to be a jerk. Frankly, trying to be very level headed about all of this, I think cops do this country a very valuable service, and on a whole I am very happy with it. But, we're Americans, we always have to fix stuff, and its the job of voting citizens of this country to arm chair quarterback, that's what it's all about.
A. cops are civilians, thats just the law. Calling people who are not cops civilians gives off a really bad vibe. I understand that you have been doing something else for years, but I am letting you know, its not helping anyone. Just for the sake of it, I understand the divide falls under the Posse Comitatus act dividing the powers of the military from the Coast Guard (recent move, see Dept. of Homeland Security) and civilian law enforcement, especially in regard to acting on US soil. I didn't bother to look up line and verse, that I will leave to those more interested. The divide is basically Military or not. Law enforcement is not military. While true, coloquially the term has been adopted by law enforcement groups, that doesn't make it true, and in this case, it is harmful to a tenuous working relationship, meaning it should be seriously addressed.
B. We all lose our friends, I spent 2 years on an ambulance, and then a few more in health care, and now nursing school, almost all my friends are in health care. Its just how it goes, and people "like" people in health care, they just don't want to hear about guts all day. People talking about a DUI at a party, don't get me started, I've all but diagnosed obstipation at a dinner party. Her stomach hurt, I palpated it and she had a whole pile of turd just sitting there. We don't hang out anymore.
C. I think you kind of nailed it, cops view everyone as jerks as they get treated like jerks a lot, this is true to be sure, as you said. But its not every time, I have had a lot of runs in with cops and I try to be very polite and respectful every time. This could be turned easilly, public views cops as jerks as they got treated by cops poorly once or twice, this happens, but I can say for sure, I have been treated well by cops for the most part.
This is just stereotyping. Until someone makes a move this isn't going to be fixed, and in my view, the only group that can change this is the police. Can't make the public become respectful all the sudden, they don't get paid.
D. In terms of the Constitution, you nailed it, if its a matter of interpretation, then it is fair someone else may interpret it differently. All I ask, is that the sensitive issues be viewed as such. A swat raid is not always in order, but I can understand why SWAT teams exist.
finally, cool guy stuff we all like to own, I don't even own a semi-auto anymore! I prefer bolt actions (no, I don't own a sniper rifle, and I am not a sniper) and revolvers. But I agree, there is a serious push to get cops and everyone else into "top tier" tactical stuff , and for the most part, it does look sexy and I think that's where it comes from. Can't ignore the "chicks dig it" factor, luckily for me, my wife has to dig it, or at least say she does, and thats good enough for me.
You didn't Matt. We can have a rational conversation on topics and can even come to some common ground with our perspectives and observations! I think our experiences with people is more common than most realize. Hey Matt, I have this pain...
As a side note to the whole cops such thing... Everyone knows that in everything, police, military, and every other job title in life, there are complete assholes that should get an ass kicking, those that are good people and a great help, and those inbetween. My personal experience has had all types. In the news, or through word of mouth all you ever hear about is the bad shit. When was the last time you heard anything good a cop, or anyone for that matter? All anyone is interested in sharing is the depressing "drama" bull shit. If there should be any bitching, I would put it on the fire guys... I have met a lot, and every one has been a dick. Ok, nuff said. [Coffee]
Byte Stryke
03-22-2011, 07:40
Probable cause existed when someone said that he racked his slide so that someone else could see him do it. Affirmative defense kicks in afterwards.
The constitution not only sets up the admin, but made a list of things that the government could NEVER do. The 4th amendment about search and seizure got watered down when some judge somewhere first decided that "getting the evidence" trumped a person's constitutional rights. It was supposed to be a VERY hard thing to get a warrant, now it's a boilerplate "affadavit" that's as common as toilet paper. Not a cop's fault it's turned that way.
I didn't get the thing about someone twisting my post, or my post being twisted? Don't understand what he was saying.
Everything I proposed COULD happen I have actually SEEN happen.
The jaded guy about Jefferson County? I am in total agreement with him.
Police departments have only really been around for about a Century as such. First incorporated as the private "enforcement" branch of a city council. Long before that was the County Sheriff, an elected official - who was an elected official simply because the idea that a law enforcement position would be a patronage job (the city council decides on who's the chief) was dangerous and threatened the rights of individuals. The Coroner got invented to balance the power of the Sheriff.
We are at a point with police agencies having very little to balance them that exists outside of their own agency. The FBI certainly investigates allegations of police misconduct if it falls into the right category - but what really keeps a police force in balance today is the video camera and what currently passes for "the press". Not too long ago if it was a bloodied and battered citizen claiming police brutality, the cop was believed EVERY time. The video camera was used to dismiss two cops in denver just last week - without it, the cop's story would have been believed.
Since I know that the police don't represent MY interests, I know where I land in the equation - and I always act accordingly.
I just LOVE the statement that someone who "has nothing to hide" should not be afraid to make a statement. It's not about that, it's about a person's CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to say nothing. A cop doesn't have the right, the government doesn't have the right - only the individual citizen has that right. Exercising a constitutional right should NEVER be called into question, or used as a basis for stating that someone is "hiding something"; that is the position of tyrants.
it used to be a basic tenet of criminal law that it was better that 100 actual guilty people go free, than 1 single innocent man spend time in jail.
Somewhere along the road we've forgotten that, and cops contribute to it simply by forgetting that they serve the public in "fact", not simply by working for a public agency.
Oh, and BTW, we don't do no-knock raids on Krispy Kreme, because they issue us a key to the back door!
I Absolutely agree
and I can only guess that Krispy-Kreme started issuing keys to the back door due to the rising cost of Glass doors for the front.
http://www.newsmutiny.com/pics/072908/DonutCity2.JPG
[ROFL1]
(Full context of satirical story) (http://www.newsmutiny.com/pages/Local/DonutCity.html)
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