Flying with my carry handgun.

[SideShow Bob]

I've done a search and read the threads and posts from the peanut gallery and think I understand how / what to do on the Denver side of flying, but has anyone have any first hand knowledge of flying out of MCI ( Kansas City ) ?
Is there any special hoops to jump through when flying back to Denver from Chiefs territory other than keeping my Denver Donkeys Tee shirt hidden ? And if it helps, I'll be using Frontier.

[BPTactical]

Drive?

[ldmaster]

Easy to do.

Box up your gun, either in a hard (plastic) gun case and inside any luggage, or a soft pistol rug (the zippered kind). The rule is that the gun MUST be in a hard sided case, either the outer case or the inside case qualifies.

Do no load any magazines. Do not handle the gun in the presense of a ticketing agent. Do not take it out of the case unless directed to do so by TSA or an LEO. If they insist on "seeing it" ask them to get a supervisor and tell the supervisor that you will only handle the gun in the presense of TSA or an LEO and at their specific direction.

I have only had one mishap with this, and it was in Orange Cty in Kalifornia when some retarded agent INSISTED that I show him the gun and prove it was unloaded. It told him I wasn't about to wave around a handgun in an airport without a cop present. He said, "I have to be sure it's unloaded" and I argued that it wasn't in his manual and that it wasn't an FAA rule as he did not have to sign off on the gun being unloaded. At some point a retired LEO stepped in and tried to "calm me down", god I hate that - told him to mind his own business unless he was on duty a "retired LEO" interfering where he had no knowledge of the law was a useless as tits on a boar. Got me a dirty look. Bullets ended up spilling out when the agent opened my ammo box upside down. That was a FU situation.

Put your ammunition either in a hard plastic ammunition box, OR the orignal box it came in - it MUST be in a separate hard case from the gun. I usually use two plastic pistol cases. It can be in the same piece of luggage.

Restrict the amount of ammunition you use, some airlines have a ridiculous rule about the amount of ammo you have. Limit yourself to 50 rounds in the original box and you're usually OK. I've heard of "no more than ten rounds" by Frontier at one point, but I do know they have a rule about how much you have - and it varies according to the airline.

the suitcase OR the plastic gun case MUST have a lock on it, you can get the little useless TSA locks if you wish, but my experience is that they ALWAYS ask you to unlock your case to inspect it.

They take you and your luggage to "special screening" which is a separate x-ray device, usually in an enclosed room. They scan your bag, at this point they have ALWAYS asked me to uncase the gun to show them it's not loaded. Don't ask me why since the xray should show them, but they're TSA so they don't necessarily use their brains. They have the luggage in their possession while going to special screening, you will not be carrying it.

At the check-in counter (you cant use express check-in) you have to tell the ticket agent that you're travelling with a pistol in your baggage. They will hand you an orange tag that is a statement that the pistol is unloaded, you sign it and PLACE IT INSIDE THE SUITCASE. They are specifically prohibited from marking the exterior of your bag as containing a firearm. At this point they MIGHT hand you the wrong form, it will look like a white three part form that law enforcement uses when they must travel WITH their gun in their possession while on the plane - if they hand this to you, tell them that they gave you the wrong form.

I have never had a Denver or KC ticket agent blink (or care) that I was travelling with a firearm. Just don't make a big deal out of it, if they're less knowledgeable than they need to be, just ask them to get their supervisor and they'll learn a new procedure.

It's slightly hilarious, but I'm ALWAYS TOLD that my bag will have to be claimed in person from their baggage claim office, which I appreciate - but I have ALWAYS just picked my bag up from the carousel - go figure.

If, for some reason, you are diverted to an unknown airport in another state (it happens) do yourself a favor and KEEP YOU MOUTH SHUT ABOUT YOUR GUN IN YOUR BAGGAGE. Do not claim the baggage, leave it in their possession and simply ask them the tranship it WITHOUT TAKING POSSESSION OF it. If you DO have to take possession of it, research the local rules BEFORE GOING BACK TO A TICKET COUNTER. If need be, LEAVE the airport and ship the gun back to yourself if you think you're in a state that prohibits your possesion of a gun.


Capiche?

[SideShow Bob]

Drive?

Wife wants to do a 3 day weekend trip to see the grand baby trunk monkeies.
Too short of time for driving.

[275RLTW]

Put your ammunition either in a hard plastic ammunition box, OR the orignal box it came in - it MUST be in a separate hard case from the gun. I usually use two plastic pistol cases.

Not true anymore. You can leave the ammo loaded in magazines in a mag pouch (still secured 360* in a plastic or metal case right?). I've done this several times in the past few months with Frontier. ALWAYS check updated TSA regs here (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm)

the suitcase OR the plastic gun case MUST have a lock on it, you can get the little useless TSA locks if you wish,

NO, DO NOT give them access to your firearm without you there!

[Tweety Bird]

Easy to do.
lamaster summed it up nicely.

Our experience in flying with our guns is limited to 4 times.

Only difference is that the TSA hasn't asked us to open our case; the customer service folks simply sent it to the back room and that was that. We did wait around a while to make sure they didn't want us to unlock the case but they didn't.

We fly United (since that's who I work for) so I can't speak to FrontAndRear's rules. We allow up to 11 pounds of ammo per passenger. It must be in a separate bag from the guns. But there are no tags on the outside that would announce, "STEAL ME, I HAVE GUNS INSIDE!"

Normally (see below for the non-normals), you're asked for your identification when you claim the bag.

Only wierd thing we've had happen is when we came back from Vegas in January. We'd been to a 2-day pistol class at Front Sight so we each had 2 pistols in a locked Pelican case. We checked in at the airport in Vegas and (since we fly standby) proceeded to miss 3 flights. Got out on the last flight of the day. Once, when I asked the agent about later flights, she looked up our names and asked me, "Are you armed?" Very quietly, I explained that no, we aren't armed but we DID have some firearms in our checked baggage. So there's some sort of flag that goes with your name when you do this. Anyway, the guns went on the first flight, even though we didn't get out until hours later. We sweated that all afternoon and evening.

When we got to DEN, we found the case sitting alongside all the other baggage that had been taken off the carousel. It had likely been sitting there for hours. AND WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO SHOW ANY IDENTIFICATION TO PICK IT UP! Anybody could have taken that case and we'd have been out about $3,000 or more worth of guns. I'm guessing that they had no clue about what was in the case. (The other times we did it, was with rifle cases and they're fairly obvious as to what they contain.)

All in all, it's pretty easy to do.

But if I was only going to KC, I'd drive. I fly all over the world for work and I've really learned to hate flying and the empty skulls full of mush that make up the TSA.

Like was said above, if you get diverted to, say, New Jersey, leave the locked case in the care of the highly-skilled <cough> <cough> professionals at the airport.

[Monky]

I've flown several dozen times with my carry piece.

I swear to you that each airport is different. None of them are the same.

I have been escorted to the TSA screening room (@ DIA) Allowed to walk on my own (ATL) then return to the counter to 'check' my luggage. Indy was kind of a mix of both.. they watched me walk around the corner to the TSA room..

I have never had a ticket agent freak out about the firearm, just be sure you say you 'need to declare a firearm'.. I've seen what happens (X gf's dad said 'I have a gun').

As far as storage of the gun in the suitcase, I've always taken the factory case.. I lock it w/ a keyed lock..the suitcase (soft) is always locked w/ a TSA lock.

Ammo has never been more than 50rds.. I keep it in a factory ammo box, I have left the mags loaded before, just not in the firearm.

The ticket agent has always given me the orange form.. only asked to see the firearm (never to inspect it)..

I'd say the biggest thing.. is don't use the word 'gun'.. be as casual as possible.. I say this only because of the people behind you in line.. if the ticket agent doesn't freak at the word gun, don't be surprised if the uninformed in line a few feet behind you don't..

All in all the rules are pretty simple.. I've had a TSA sticker placed on my bag once.. it was a TINY little hologram on destination tag on the suitcase. Only once, and it was not really noticeable... I think it said 'TSA' on it.. not sure.

Make sure you get to the airport with at least a full hour prior to departure, don't want your luggage to miss the flight.

Anyone ticketed with you can 'go ahead' w/o you.. you'll catch up..unless they have a FIREARM as well..

I would say I've been on.. 50+ flights with a firearm and never had a problem.. Can't say the same for my X's dad..but that was just funny after the fact.

[ldmaster]

It's not a matter of allowing TSA access to the your bag - they will gain access to it by any means they see fit. I've seen a lot of cut locks and broken suitcase locks - you have no choice in the matter of whether you are there or not - failing to use the TSA type locks mean they cut off the lock if they have any question, and they don't have to "ask your permission". You'll see a bright sealing tape they use to reseal it, but you have no say in the matter if you don't use the TSA locks, or aren't available at the time of the check to unlock something.

[ldmaster]

It's not a matter of allowing TSA access to the your bag - they will gain access to it by any means they see fit. I've seen a lot of cut locks and broken suitcase locks - you have no choice in the matter of whether you are there or not - failing to use the TSA type locks mean they cut off the lock if they have any question, and they don't have to "ask your permission". You'll see a bright sealing tape they use to reseal it, but you have no say in the matter if you don't use the TSA locks, or aren't available at the time of the check to unlock something.

And TSA regs do not reflect airline policy, while most of it is mirrored, Delta does not allow loaded mags, best to do something that they all can agree on - but go ahead and load the mags - but if you don't put a TSA lock on the case, be prepared to find a cut padlock.

[alxone]

grand baby trunk monkeies.

[LOL][LOL][LOL][LOL]

[275RLTW]

It's not a matter of allowing TSA access to the your bag - they will gain access to it by any means they see fit. I've seen a lot of cut locks and broken suitcase locks - you have no choice in the matter of whether you are there or not - failing to use the TSA type locks mean they cut off the lock if they have any question, and they don't have to "ask your permission". You'll see a bright sealing tape they use to reseal it, but you have no say in the matter if you don't use the TSA locks, or aren't available at the time of the check to unlock something.


TSA inspects any baggage with a firearm in your presence. Use zip ties to secure it after that. Put your own lock on you pistol case so no one except you has access to it.

[Tweety Bird]

Yeah, I'd suggest that you hang around the ticket counter and TSA screening area for a while. If the TSA wants to see what's in it, they're going to do it. If you're there, you can unlock it for them and re-lock it afterward. If you're not there, they'll cut the locks. Best way is to be there so you can unlock the case, and re-secure it afterward.

I've been told (and have read) that if the TSA has to cut the locks, the case is no longer secure and cannot be shipped. We have no experience with this happening because our guns have just passed through the process without any question by the TSA. Again, we have limited experience with this. Sounds like others here have a whole lot more dealings in this than we do.

From the TSA website:



You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.As they always say, YMMV.