Forest Service Laws!

[Meateater]

I was out at the Roosevelt-Arapaho "St. Vrain" site on Saturday and was "met" by the Ranger Staff Supervisor. Really nice guy and shooter himself. He saw me collect all my brass + more and be very safe and responsible before approaching me...
FYI...(and don't kill the messenger)
1) Our shooting line is not far enough away from the road/"occupied area". Min. distance is 150 yards which is about half-way to the natural backstop. He did not cite me with a violation because I was so tidy.
2) Shooting clay pigeons is a no-no. Even though biodegradeable, it is considered littering to leave the remnants behind. For that matter, skeet shooting of any kind is technically prohibited because there is no "effective backstop".
3) Any organized clean-up requires an official "volunteer permit". He said this would actually help our organization through positive publicity.
Ranger Ed Perault encouraged any and all of us to email him with suggestion/ideas about shooting regs in the National Forests. He said he would keep us notified of organized meetings etc. addressing these issues.
His email is eperault@fs.fed.us
Tell him your thoughts before it is too late.

[Obiwan]

I always wondered if those that set up just into the edge of the field were not violating the law

[michael_aos]

Some friends and I set up an ad-hoc range whenever we go camping.

Once time by Tarryall, a couple forest-service guys walked up to our site. They were outfitted like city-cops, but with a different uniform.

Very nice. Chatted for a while. Cautioned us that we had to be a certain distance from other campers. I'm not sure they really knew the reg, or at least weren't particularly concerned. They just kind of eyeballed it and said we were OK.

They were delighted that we were using target-stands and steel targets, rather than stapling targets to trees.

They also weren't terribly concerned about the clay pigeons. Just stressed that we needed to pick EVERYTHING up when we were done.

Very nice. Polite. Sociable.

I was pretty impressed, actually.

Mike

[7idl]

not sure where you were, but we've been shooting at the same place up there for a long time.

Park rangers and other LEO types have stopped by from time to time without any problems. never heard of the 150yd clause.

I'd like to see if we can get a link to an on-line source of rules so we are not going by word-of-mouth.

[Marlin]

You only have to be 50 yards off the centerline of the road to discharge a firearm for hunting, I don't see as to how it would really be any differant.
:roll: I may snoop around and see if I can find anything.

[Merl]

I was there as well when he came up. He was referring to this rule (http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/passes/rules.shtml).


The Code of Federal Regulations (title 36) states that discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury or damaging property is prohibited:

* In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area, or

didnt seem incredibly annoyed by it though as long as we were all playing safely.
As far as litter he also said that technically paintball was littering. Have to exercise some discretion.

I was more interested in what he was saying about changes coming on what is allowed. Hopefully he'll get back to me on when public meetings are taking place. (btw, took home a computer, microwave and clothes dryer from the area. only takes 1 jerk to ruin it for all of us)[/url]

[7idl]

next club shoot I go to, I'll bring my little trailer so we can haul away any big crap.

[Marlin]

The only thing I have found on Clays so far-




While it's legal to target shoot in most areas of the forest, we do have concerns about safety, litter and the environment. Please consider using the recently developed non-toxic, biodegradable clay pigeons. They decompose on contact with water (i.e. rain and snow) and are produced by several manufactures. Also, consider using fiber wad shot shells - the plastic wad cups do not degrade. Please pick up any other litter including spent hulls and take them home with you. If you are using lead shot, do not shoot over water bodies, wetlands or other areas used by waterfowl since wildlife may consume the lead and be poisoned by it.[/b]

[HunterCO]

You only have to be 50 yards off the centerline of the road to discharge a firearm for hunting, I don't see as to how it would really be any differant.
:roll: I may snoop around and see if I can find anything.

It's actually 50 feet not 50 yards those are the hunting regs though. I know for target shooting forest service has the 150 yard rule. I don't know if that covers roads or not?

Another thing is at the north shoot before the last one we had a forest ranger show up off duty and set up right next to me and he was shooting. All he said to me was do you guys haul all your trash out and I said yes we do. He told me they just cleaned it up not to long ago.

Keep me updated on anything any of you find out. I went to Harris Park today and was really pissed off when I seen targets on trees. I took them down and the place is getting trashed again. I went down the line and talked to everybody there and explained to them if this did not stop there will be no more shooting in national forest.

[DanaT]

Here is what is listed on Pike/ San Isabel NF website:

"Although recreational shooting is generally permitted in the National Forest there are exceptions and conditions. The exceptions are normally outlined in Special Orders. In this case, Special Order 91-08 prohibits recreation/target shooting in all of El Paso County including the area west of Monument. You can obtain a map from us that shows you exactly where these restrictions apply. The best alternative area for recreation/target shooting west of Monument is off Mt. Herman Road and down Forest Development Road (FDR) 322A. This area is located in Teller County approximately six miles from Red Rocks Ranch Road. The other common sense conditions are as follows: (1) you cannot discharge a firearm in or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area (2) you cannot discharge a firearm across or on a Forest Development road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge (3) you cannot discharge a firearm into or within any cave. I would also advise you to familiarize yourself with Colorado State law regarding possessing and transporting firearms."

-Dana

[DanaT]

As I have expected. I have seen withing 300ft of a road, withing 150yds of a rd, etc. on the various NF websites. This Ranger was wrong. To cite you, he must actually cite you for breaking the law. The law states:

TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

PART 261--PROHIBITIONS--Table of Contents

Subpart A--General Prohibitions

Sec. 261.10 Occupancy and use.

The following are prohibited:
(a) Constructing, placing, or maintaining any kind of road, trail,
structure, fence, enclosure, communication equipment, or other
improvement on National Forest system land or facilities without a
special-use authorization, contract, or approved operating plan.
(b) Taking possession of, occupying, or otherwise using National
Forest System lands for residential purposes without a special-use
authorization, or as otherwise authorized by Federal law or regulation.
(c) Selling or offering for sale any merchandise or conducting any
kind of work activity or service unless authorized by Federal law,
regulation, or special-use authorization.
(d) Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking
human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:
(1) In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite,
developed recreation site or occupied area, or
(2) Across or on a Forest Development road or a body of water
adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or
property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.
(3) Into or within any cave.


This mean that you cannot shoot FROM or ACROSS a road. It doesn't say anything about firing from within 150yds of a road.

-Dana

[Meateater]

What I wrote was ver batim from a senior Ranger, so he can cite you and you can fight it in court. I'd rather just avoid the whole hassle all together, and shoot a little closer to the backstop. The "occupied area" DOES translate to the road...If there is a cyclist using the road AT ANY TIME while you are shooting, that area is occupied. This came directly from the Ranger's mouth. Same goes for the pigeons...its probably ok, and the Ranger I dealt with did not seem to mind much, but he did mention it as a technical violation and get a young headstrong Ranger who just broke up with his girlfriend and you are littering. Then its up to you to prove otherwise...each individual has to decide for himself if it is worth it.

[The1andOnlyKC]

The spot that we shoot from up north is about that far off the road isnt it? OR have you guys moved the line back?

[7idl]

here is a line from the road to 150 yards in at the north range.


http://coloradoshooting.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/album04/NShoot150yds.sized.jpg

[postal]

[Obiwan]

I hauled a big bag of crap out on Sunday

Lots of shotgun shells.....which ticks me off

I can easily see missing the odd 9 mm case or two....but come on.....

Hauled out plenty of bottles and cans

Shooting at glass should be a hanging offense

I am afraid to kneel without pads

[KarlPMann]

As stated earlier, there are more than just one set of rules that must be adhered to. There are the FS rules that dictate 150 yards from structures, dwellings, campgrounds, campsites, hiking trails, etc. Then there's also Federal Laws enforced by other agencies such as the puddle pirates say you can't shoot over a body of water. :roll: Can't shoot within ??? range of an air corridor :cool: . Can't shoot at any tree and so on. Then there are local ordinances that prohibit shooting in certain areas too. Also local Forest Rangers can restrict areas. For example, on Rampart Range Road you can't shoot between Colorado Springs and Rampart Reservoir except at the ONE approved shooting area.

There is no ONE set of rules, we need to keep as updated and knowledgeable of the rules in the particular area we shoot at. That's a big reason I like my favorite little spot, I know the local rules.

Karl.

[DanaT]

What I wrote was ver batim from a senior Ranger, so he can cite you and you can fight it in court. I'd rather just avoid the whole hassle all together, and shoot a little closer to the backstop. The "occupied area" DOES translate to the road...If there is a cyclist using the road AT ANY TIME while you are shooting, that area is occupied. This came directly from the Ranger's mouth. Same goes for the pigeons...its probably ok, and the Ranger I dealt with did not seem to mind much, but he did mention it as a technical violation and get a young headstrong Ranger who just broke up with his girlfriend and you are littering. Then its up to you to prove otherwise...each individual has to decide for himself if it is worth it.

I agree in principle with what you are sayinng here. A ranger is LEO and you will never win arguing with them on the spot. If they want to be pricks, and you're right, you argue it court (and file a civil suit against the LEO).

That said, just because an LEO says something is the "law" doesn't really make it so. LEOs will often bullsh&t people to get an answer they want or get someone to admit something.

I don;t think "occupied" means the same as "person present". If that were the case, then you could only shoot solo in NF. Case in point, if I go shooting with a buddy, then he is "occupying" the ground next to me. Therefore I can't shoot within 150 yards of him?

Basically, LEOs think they are gods, and really, you can probably be put in jail for breathing if some a$$hat LEO wants to because you are using a government owned resource without the proper permit.

-Dana