Today I played "Open Carry"

[ldmaster]

And went into several stores, in multiple jurisdictions.

I don't have much use for IWB, so it was a Serpa with a Glock 19. Red T-shirt and denim shorts.

I went into thrift stores, department stores, walked down a mall (entered via a door that did not prohibit carrying weapons), did an exchange at a major department store, went to a jewelry store, bought a new grill, went to a pharmacy went to a government building and used their LE storage lockers.

Went a lot of places, did a lot of things.

I ONLY got stares and looks from people who appeared to be latino, and not native to the USA. Even those stares weren't impolite.

Nobody asked me about the gun, I made sure I stayed long enough for someone to call the police. No clerk even commented on it, and while I was looking, none of them stared at it.

I have a scanner, and never heard a dispatch for me. yes, it's a trunking scanner.

In short, nobody seemed to care enough to do the old panic call to 911. Nobody gasped and ran away. Nobody pointed. No store owner acted scared or nervous, and I made a point to ask a question or ask to see something.


I live in Arapahoe County and did this in several of the cities around me.

I am still free at this moment.

Anybody else ever done this?

[bobbyfairbanks]

Open carry is legal in CO. You do know that dont you? Also carrying a gun is like playing poker. Don't show your hand to the other players. But hey do what you feel is right.

[Byte Stryke]

funny thing that Open carry law...

Allot of people from the peoples republik of Kalifornia currently residing in Colorado aren't aware of this and don't agree.

rest assured, the ones that are aware are working towards the outlaw of such blatant use of constitutional rights.



edit, and most probably assumed you were a gay cop...

Denim Shorts, Really? [LOL]

[Irving]

How did you go into a government building without getting beat up and arrested? Every time I even ASK about them storing the gun for me (like the law says they are supposed to do) they get all testy and tell me that they can't/won't do it.

I've open carried before. The kid behind the counter at Chipotle called his off-duty cop buddy over, after I left the counter, and the off-duty approached me about it. Then I left it in the car at the next stop.

EDIT: Aren't you a cop though? Off duty cops still act like cops, even if they are dressed like Lt. Dangle of the Reno PD.

[KevDen2005]

funny thing that Open carry law...



edit, and most probably assumed you were a gay cop...

Denim Shorts, Really? [LOL]


Oh my God,

The only thing I was going to reply to this is, someone should have called the fashion police...Denim shorts are out man...you should have carried the gun in your fanny pack instead

[Byte Stryke]

Oh my God,

The only thing I was going to reply to this is, someone should have called the fashion police...Denim shorts are out man...you should have carried the gun in your fanny pack instead
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/3030495119_965924eaf0.jpg

[sniper7]

glad things went well. but I prefer to not draw any attention at all.

[Byte Stryke]

glad things went well. but I prefer to not draw any attention at all.



so does this mean we aren't going to the mall with our ARs strapped to our Tactical vests?[LOL]

[BigMat]

This thread makes me miss Arizona a little.

I've open carried an AR. My car was getting worked on, so I had to walk it to the range, across town...I wasn't wearing a vest though, or jean shorts. Guess I just hit on my next 3 gun rig. Lt. Dangle in some molle gear.

People used to come into our store all the time open, it just seemed like people don't do it here.


Personally, I think it helps, enough exposure to guys not being dumb shits with guns and people may start to realize guns don't equal violence.

[sniper7]

so does this mean we aren't going to the mall with our ARs strapped to our Tactical vests?[LOL]

I do have to take the wife shopping tomorrow.
I'll let you know how it goes...well if it goes well I will respond, if I am not on for a while then you will know!

[spyder]

I've open carried an AR. My car was getting worked on, so I had to walk it to the range, across town...I wasn't wearing a vest though, or jean shorts. Guess I just hit on my next 3 gun rig. Lt. Dangle in some molle gear.


I have drop legged one of my mp5's for a similar reason. Ended up going to Texas Roadhouse with it like that too (walked there). Mark, the manager of this one here still remembers me.

[Byte Stryke]

I do have to take the wife shopping tomorrow.
I'll let you know how it goes...well if it goes well I will respond, if I am not on for a while then you will know!


way I figure... what better place to go "Mall-Ninja" than at the mall, right?

we will bolt the 8 different flashlights on with the different colors 3 different scopes, a bi-pod, a Tripod and a Mono-pod. and dont forget the swiss-army knife attachment!
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs/65870_88675974_tacticoolAR15.jpg

[spyder]

Is there an actual gun under all of that crap? [ROFL1]

[Byte Stryke]

Is there an actual gun under all of that crap? [ROFL1]



Dude... if we get the red dot, the green dot, the 8 cross-hairs , the 4 lasers on you... you are smoke!


jus don run side ta side right?... that shit be heavy!


[LOL]

[KevDen2005]

glad things went well. but I prefer to not draw any attention at all.


Actually the other day I had a conversation with two sergeants at my PD about open carry, and CCW on schools, mainly CRS 18-12-105.5 and 18-12-214. There can be a lot of ambiguity with the law (open carry excluded since that's not an issue). I actually had a long argument with another officer about interpretation of one of the subsections, and I believe I am right and I am getting clarification from the DA tomorrow, but the sergeants agree with me (but DA support is always nice for an argument).

I say this to you all because you know and I know it is legal to open carry, however, an officer can interpret certain words in laws differently so just be careful, cops are humans too and I prefer to help keep everyone out of the limelight if at all possible.

Personally, I have always concealed, well before I was an officer as well as present because I like secrecy.

[spyder]

Dude... if we get the red dot, the green dot, the 8 cross-hairs , the 4 lasers on you... you are smoke!


jus don run side ta side right?... that shit be heavy!


[LOL]
There has gota be a movable turret for that. In the time it would take to make sure every one of those is on me, I would be out of there! [ROFL1]

[Byte Stryke]

Personally, I have always concealed, well before I was an officer as well as present because I like secrecy.


I completely concur,
However, I do not agree with the coat-tax.

the argument that it would be mayhem and chaos in the streets and everyone would be carrying illegally is absolute crap.

sorry, dont want to get into a rant again.
I dont feel that a law abiding citizen should be penalized, harassed or required to pay a tax to exercise the 2nd.

[SideShow Bob]

There has gota be a movable turret for that [ROFL1]

Just mount it to the Handle bars of your Segway.

[scratchy]

I do have to take the wife shopping tomorrow.
I'll let you know how it goes...well if it goes well I will respond, if I am not on for a while then you will know!

Will she go out in public with you while you are wearing those shorts?

[SideShow Bob]

Will she go out in public with you while you are wearing those shorts?

And did you at least hit the tanning spa to put some color to those bright white chicken legs before going out into public wearing denim shorts ? [LOL]

[JohnTRourke]

I've had the same experiences you did.
Nobody even notices. (which doesn't shock me given the way most people drive).

My friend was wondering about open carry and do people freak out, etc.
so, a week or so passes and we go out to lunch, we get home, etc.

I say to him, remember when you asked about open carry?

"yeah"

well, not only did nobody notice while we went out for lunch, you didn't notice either.

[BPTactical]

I think a lot of folks are either ignorant that CO is an "open carry" state or just think you are LE.
I am happy to exercise my Constitutional right but choose to do such with discretion. As was noted earlier, LE personnel do not always understand the law they are trusted to uphold and I would just as soon NOT go through the process of educating them.

I also look at it this way- we are the "ambassadors" of the firearms world to the uneducated and as such should conduct ourselves appropriately. The clown in Aurora over the parking space is a prime example. All it takes is one asshat to reflect a bad light upon us all. This just gives the Anti's more fuel for the fire.
Why feed the fucks if we don't have to?
All it takes is one soccer mom to see your open carry and freak out "for the children" and then more negative press.
Firearms are demonized in our society today. We need to present a positive image so we can help dissuade some of the demonization.

[ghettodub]

edit, and most probably assumed you were a gay cop...

Denim Shorts, Really? [LOL]

[ROFL2]

[SU405]

And went into several stores, in multiple jurisdictions.

I don't have much use for IWB, so it was a Serpa with a Glock 19. Red T-shirt and denim shorts.

I went into thrift stores, department stores, walked down a mall (entered via a door that did not prohibit carrying weapons), did an exchange at a major department store, went to a jewelry store, bought a new grill, went to a pharmacy went to a government building and used their LE storage lockers.

Went a lot of places, did a lot of things.

I ONLY got stares and looks from people who appeared to be latino, and not native to the USA. Even those stares weren't impolite.

Nobody asked me about the gun, I made sure I stayed long enough for someone to call the police. No clerk even commented on it, and while I was looking, none of them stared at it.

I have a scanner, and never heard a dispatch for me. yes, it's a trunking scanner.

In short, nobody seemed to care enough to do the old panic call to 911. Nobody gasped and ran away. Nobody pointed. No store owner acted scared or nervous, and I made a point to ask a question or ask to see something.


I live in Arapahoe County and did this in several of the cities around me.

I am still free at this moment.

Anybody else ever done this?


So I'm a little confused about the part in red?

This is what you went to the jewelry store for?
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/stang9300/diamond_tooth_grill.jpg

In all seriousness glad no one freaked.

I'm almost positive if I attempted the same thing the outcome would have been much different. I don't even want the attention.

[BPTactical]

So I'm a little confused about the part in red?

This is what you went to the jewelry store for?
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii89/stang9300/diamond_tooth_grill.jpg


[ROFL1]

[newracer]

All it takes is one soccer mom to see your open carry and freak out "for the children" and then more negative press.
Firearms are demonized in our society today. We need to present a positive image so we can help dissuade some of the demonization.

But if more people open carried maybe it would help change the perception and people would not freak out.

[KevDen2005]

I completely concur,
However, I do not agree with the coat-tax.

the argument that it would be mayhem and chaos in the streets and everyone would be carrying illegally is absolute crap.

sorry, dont want to get into a rant again.
I dont feel that a law abiding citizen should be penalized, harassed or required to pay a tax to exercise the 2nd.


I agree with you on that, I am a supporter of not having to pay for CCW, however I did pay because I wanted to be able to conceal and to carry in states that recognize CO.

But no one should be penalized for exercising any fundamental right, in my opinion, that's why the Framers put them there, and they didn't do it haphazardly at all, which many anti-gunners would have you believe.

[Jolly Green]

Good work, open carries make life more enjoyable!

[KevDen2005]

But if more people open carried maybe it would help change the perception and people would not freak out.


Yes as a police officer I see this often. A PD has an obligation and duty to answer a call for service, especially if it came in on a 911 line.

The most that soccer mom would have told a dispatcher is, "there is a guy with a gun," and officers have to respond and be ready for anything.

The PD is now put in a tough spot because they don't know what is going on and are responding based on that morons call. This is reality for all of us and something to think about when open-carrying, people are dumb. And the more people we get from CA and similar places, the more we can expect things like this to happen (I don't think all people from liberal places are liberal, some are moving here to get away from that).

[sniper7]

way I figure... what better place to go "Mall-Ninja" than at the mall, right?

we will bolt the 8 different flashlights on with the different colors 3 different scopes, a bi-pod, a Tripod and a Mono-pod. and dont forget the swiss-army knife attachment!
http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs/65870_88675974_tacticoolAR15.jpg

I am still pissed I am not getting ownership rights of this photo. people steal a picture of my gun and then I get nothing for it!

[sniper7]

Will she go out in public with you while you are wearing those shorts?


you bet, i'll try to get some pics. just be sure to have shades on as these white legs have seen very little light this year![ROFL1]

[KevDen2005]

you bet, i'll try to get some pics. just be sure to have shades on as these white legs have seen very little light this year![ROFL1]


Someone needs to take you to the store and get you up to the times man

[StagLefty]

you bet, i'll try to get some pics. just be sure to have shades on as these white legs have seen very little light this year![ROFL1]

Aluma-Hyde FDE works great early in the season [ROFL1]

[Byte Stryke]

I agree with you on that, I am a supporter of not having to pay for CCW, however I did pay because I wanted to be able to conceal and to carry in states that recognize CO.

But no one should be penalized for exercising any fundamental right, in my opinion, that's why the Framers put them there, and they didn't do it haphazardly at all, which many anti-gunners would have you believe.



So wait, you mean they didn't intend This? (http://www.getamused.com/videos/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.html)


[ROFL1]

[spyder]

I told my wife we should wear our droplegs and mp5k's just for the hell of it and carry on with our normal day (as a joke). She just shrugged her shoulders and make a joke about how most people would probably think they were airsoft.

[KevDen2005]

So wait, you mean they didn't intend This? (http://www.getamused.com/videos/Family-Guy-Right-to-Bear-Arms.html)


[ROFL1]


LOL....That was too funny

[ldmaster]

yes, denim shorts - I'm old, we get away with things like calf-length dark socks and sandles ALL THE TIME!

What I am or am not isn't much of an issue - in the sense that I should have no more rights than the next guy.

Kev, 911 call to PD, soccer mom - etc... "put them in a bad spot"? Frankly EACH and every call you have for an unknown problem puts a cop in a bad spot, it always has. The idea that the guy you're stopping is armed at least puts you in the right frame of mind that you should always be in anyway. Dispatchers ask more questions too, like "what is he doing", thusly:

911 Soccermom: "Oh my god, there's this guy with a gun here!!!"

Dispatcher: "A gun? Where are you?"

911 Soccermom: "I'm at the jewelry store with my children and he's got a gun!"

Dispather: "What is he doing? Is he waving it around, is he trying to commit a robbery?"

911 Soccermom: "No, it's in a holster and he's looking at necklaces."

Dispatcher: "So he's not threatening anybody, or pointing it at anybody? Did he threaten you?"

911 Soccermom: "No he hasn't threatened anybody YET, but I'm uncomfortable about it and you just don't know nowadays about that kind of stuff."

Dispatcher: "So, this guy is scaring you? You have your children with you too?"

911 Soccermom: "yes, I'm very frightened"

Dispatcher: "Can you leave the area? Is he blocking your exit?"


The conversation could go on, but my whole point is that dispatchers ask a LOT of questions about what is going on - and it all goes in the dispatch record.

But that's sort of besides the whole point of my exercise. I didn't do it on purpose, it just worked out that way and I saw no reason to not continue to do it.

I've got a HUGE problem with cops telling citizens that they need to avoid doing something so that the "dont' have a problem". It's one thing to advise a citizen to not go into a bad neighborhood carrying cash falling out of your pockets, it's another thing entirely to advise them to not draw the attention of the police department that is SUPPOSED to be there to keep the peace.

Sure a LOT of cops would call it "stupid". Does this make them right? Does this "advice" reflect anything other than a supreme belief that "All men are created equal, but some men are more equal than others?"

Concealed carry was once considered "polite", now it's a governmentally granted LICENSE? A license to be polite?

At some point when we bend over even when nobody is watching, all we're doing is conditioning ourselves to continue to bend over. When we advise others to "not make a scene" we're telling them that their RIGHTS are not worth standing up for, because "someone may object". We're encouraging the creed of the slave.

Don't believe me? Well, if "you" are right, then WHY have have our rights been getting chopped off at the knees every time we turn around? If your method of "passive conduct" is so effective at preserving our rights, why hasn't it worked? You're either helping increase our rights, or by your passive stance you are ceding EVERYBODY'S rights to the clamorous mob that wishes to make all human rights venal. And yes I mean venal.

Think the existence of CCW laws are some kind of gigantic victory? While we've been gloating about that, we've lost many other rights and had our numbers pared down even more. HOW stupid is the law banning importation of gun barrels? Colorado changed the procedure and law governing the restoration of civil rights post-conviction, and it is now nearly impossible to have them restored unless you got the right kind of plea agreement. Think you're just curtailing the rights of BAD people with this law? "When they came for the ... , I said nothing, for I was not a ...". We are all about how we're "law abiding" and forever prattle on about how WE would never be caught doing something wrong. Then, one day, we get accused (I actually mean arrested) of something that loses us our gun rights. let's say you and your wife were arguing, and she answered her cellphone during the argument, and you grabbed it and turned it off. Bingo pal, you've just committed an act of domestic violence. you didn't destroy the phone, you didn't wrestle it from her hand, or hurt or threaten her in any way (you were arguing about the Broncos). If your neighbors, or the person she was on the phone with, called the police because you were yelling (imagine that, someone yelling about the Broncos) and you told the cops what I've just outlined - it doesn't MATTER that your wife doesn't want you arrested. Domestic Violence is a life sentence for your gun rights. Period. Dot. Don't think it can happen to you? Why? Because you're white? Because you're "law abiding" or you used to Be a cop? Or perhaps because you read a bunch of books on the law, or you're a nuclear physicist, or any of a number of reasons that YOU think puts you above such accusations. While you weren't looking, somebody convinced a whole bunch of people that you are a LIFETIME THREAT to the safety of others.

yeah, it can't happen to YOU, gee, you're one of the "good guys". Right? You're not some poor dumb high school dropout working at McDonalds! The law was set up to insure that not ONE person ever be wrongfully convicted of a crime, that it were better that 100 guilty men go free than 1 wrongfully be even accused. We're so invested with "law and order" these days that we get constantly convinced that the "NEW law enforcement tool" (fill in the blank from Patriot Act to IR scopes on a drone) will only be used against those nasty, filthy drug smugglers/terrorists. Then you read the post the other day about how law enforcement training is actually encouraging LE's to view ANYBODY as a potential terrorist. But gee, not me, because I always buy my CCW rights from the government and I never do anything to risk notice.

coward.

So, since this is America, you are perfectly free to express your dismay at my "conduct" - but understand that I do not consider that dismay to be admirable.

[Irving]

You seem pretty angry. I don't think anyone in here was saying that you shouldn't have open carried. Will it make you feel better if I open carry for a day too?

[spyder]

You seem pretty angry. I don't think anyone in here was saying that you shouldn't have open carried. Will it make you feel better if I open carry for a day too?
Ya, I was wondering myself why he sounded so offended...

[ldmaster]

Just hate it when my message gets hijacked and pushed off-center.

Folks, SOMEBODY should be angry.

Oh, gosh, it's probably time for somebody to call DHS and report my "anger" Isn't that what we're learning to do?

We should always respond according to our principles, I simply dislike it when fear and avoidance are disguised as principles, especially when it's cloaked in "virtue".

The experiment wasn't intentional, it just started happening and I saw no reason to not continue it.

It's also true that my external appearance doesn't generally encourage people to fear me. White(ish) guy, short hair, older NOT wearing camo clothing, or an NRA hat, or an ugly-ass ponytail with full beard with a quote from Adolph Hitler on his t-shirt, no keyring held onto my belt by a dog collar chain or any other cultural indicator that I'm a "gun totin' redneck who is PROBABLY a nazi and kicker of kittens. It was as much a test of what signals set people off, as it was of their observational skills and bias. I might try it with a "Palin in 2012" t-shirt, that should do it.

The next time I do it, probably, I will plan it better (or maybe not).

Ultimately my point is that even a simply exercise in a right enumerated in the Bill of Rights, will draw detractors who will almost always explain why I was stupid without actually calling me stupid, simple inference, and almost ALWAYS do it to make them seem wiser (somehow).

Hence, "coward"

Argument doesn't need to be about anger, and argument that seems to be more virtriolic isn't necessarily expressing anger either. Come to think of it, the whole use of the word "anger" has become perjorative to the extreme. Just saying it conjures images of Charlie Sheen beating up another woman...

[spyder]

I don't get exactly what it is that you were apparently trying to do with this thread then? Why would anyone be angry? You told us about your day and it sounds like it went good and no one freaked out on you. So, I'm a little confused where the anger is coming from. Ya, some of us shared some of our stories, but, so what? Those all came out good also, so I still don't see any reason for anyone to be angry? You are talking to, for the most part, a bunch of cool level headed guys here, no one would get angry about any of that. Well, I don't think anyway....

[BPTactical]

Idmaster- please don't take my post as a slam to what you choose to do. Absolutely no intent to do so and if it came across that way I apologize.
Simply a statement of my opinion and that is to carry discreetly. Whilst I would love to carry open and do when I am in the hills when in town I roll CCW.
I don't have the time nor patience to be hassled by a LEO that does not understand or is ignorant of what the law may or may not state.
I choose not to attract attention to myself and my right to carry.
As far as the soccer mom comment that is a rank on the Anti's. They will capitalize any time a firearm is mentioned in a negative light. If they don't know I am carrying then I give them no fodder for their ignorance.[Beer]

[colocowboy01]

Personally, I think it helps, enough exposure to guys not being dumb shits with guns and people may start to realize guns don't equal violence.


I agree with you. The more people see gun owners as the normal people that we are and not like the gunners in the movies is a benefit to all of us.

[Byte Stryke]

I agree with you. The more people see gun owners as the normal people that we are and not like the gunners in the movies is a benefit to all of us.


I Like it!
Count me in!
Completely with the law abiding armed citizen thing.


Only drawback I See is that someone needs to let every news desk in America in on this plan.


[ROFL1]

[KevDen2005]

yes, denim shorts - I'm old, we get away with things like calf-length dark socks and sandles ALL THE TIME!

What I am or am not isn't much of an issue - in the sense that I should have no more rights than the next guy.

Kev, 911 call to PD, soccer mom - etc... "put them in a bad spot"? Frankly EACH and every call you have for an unknown problem puts a cop in a bad spot, it always has. The idea that the guy you're stopping is armed at least puts you in the right frame of mind that you should always be in anyway. Dispatchers ask more questions too, like "what is he doing", thusly:

911 Soccermom: "Oh my god, there's this guy with a gun here!!!"

Dispatcher: "A gun? Where are you?"

911 Soccermom: "I'm at the jewelry store with my children and he's got a gun!"

Dispather: "What is he doing? Is he waving it around, is he trying to commit a robbery?"

911 Soccermom: "No, it's in a holster and he's looking at necklaces."

Dispatcher: "So he's not threatening anybody, or pointing it at anybody? Did he threaten you?"

911 Soccermom: "No he hasn't threatened anybody YET, but I'm uncomfortable about it and you just don't know nowadays about that kind of stuff."

Dispatcher: "So, this guy is scaring you? You have your children with you too?"

911 Soccermom: "yes, I'm very frightened"

Dispatcher: "Can you leave the area? Is he blocking your exit?"


The conversation could go on, but my whole point is that dispatchers ask a LOT of questions about what is going on - and it all goes in the dispatch record.

But that's sort of besides the whole point of my exercise. I didn't do it on purpose, it just worked out that way and I saw no reason to not continue to do it.

I've got a HUGE problem with cops telling citizens that they need to avoid doing something so that the "dont' have a problem". It's one thing to advise a citizen to not go into a bad neighborhood carrying cash falling out of your pockets, it's another thing entirely to advise them to not draw the attention of the police department that is SUPPOSED to be there to keep the peace.

Sure a LOT of cops would call it "stupid". Does this make them right? Does this "advice" reflect anything other than a supreme belief that "All men are created equal, but some men are more equal than others?"

Concealed carry was once considered "polite", now it's a governmentally granted LICENSE? A license to be polite?

At some point when we bend over even when nobody is watching, all we're doing is conditioning ourselves to continue to bend over. When we advise others to "not make a scene" we're telling them that their RIGHTS are not worth standing up for, because "someone may object". We're encouraging the creed of the slave.

Don't believe me? Well, if "you" are right, then WHY have have our rights been getting chopped off at the knees every time we turn around? If your method of "passive conduct" is so effective at preserving our rights, why hasn't it worked? You're either helping increase our rights, or by your passive stance you are ceding EVERYBODY'S rights to the clamorous mob that wishes to make all human rights venal. And yes I mean venal.

Think the existence of CCW laws are some kind of gigantic victory? While we've been gloating about that, we've lost many other rights and had our numbers pared down even more. HOW stupid is the law banning importation of gun barrels? Colorado changed the procedure and law governing the restoration of civil rights post-conviction, and it is now nearly impossible to have them restored unless you got the right kind of plea agreement. Think you're just curtailing the rights of BAD people with this law? "When they came for the ... , I said nothing, for I was not a ...". We are all about how we're "law abiding" and forever prattle on about how WE would never be caught doing something wrong. Then, one day, we get accused (I actually mean arrested) of something that loses us our gun rights. let's say you and your wife were arguing, and she answered her cellphone during the argument, and you grabbed it and turned it off. Bingo pal, you've just committed an act of domestic violence. you didn't destroy the phone, you didn't wrestle it from her hand, or hurt or threaten her in any way (you were arguing about the Broncos). If your neighbors, or the person she was on the phone with, called the police because you were yelling (imagine that, someone yelling about the Broncos) and you told the cops what I've just outlined - it doesn't MATTER that your wife doesn't want you arrested. Domestic Violence is a life sentence for your gun rights. Period. Dot. Don't think it can happen to you? Why? Because you're white? Because you're "law abiding" or you used to Be a cop? Or perhaps because you read a bunch of books on the law, or you're a nuclear physicist, or any of a number of reasons that YOU think puts you above such accusations. While you weren't looking, somebody convinced a whole bunch of people that you are a LIFETIME THREAT to the safety of others.

yeah, it can't happen to YOU, gee, you're one of the "good guys". Right? You're not some poor dumb high school dropout working at McDonalds! The law was set up to insure that not ONE person ever be wrongfully convicted of a crime, that it were better that 100 guilty men go free than 1 wrongfully be even accused. We're so invested with "law and order" these days that we get constantly convinced that the "NEW law enforcement tool" (fill in the blank from Patriot Act to IR scopes on a drone) will only be used against those nasty, filthy drug smugglers/terrorists. Then you read the post the other day about how law enforcement training is actually encouraging LE's to view ANYBODY as a potential terrorist. But gee, not me, because I always buy my CCW rights from the government and I never do anything to risk notice.

coward.

So, since this is America, you are perfectly free to express your dismay at my "conduct" - but understand that I do not consider that dismay to be admirable.


Look dude,

I am not sure I got this correctly but it sounds like you are calling me a coward. If so, that is completely uncalled for. You mentioned some things, and I mentioned some things. I NEVER told you not to do it, I told you why I wouldn't.

Don't lecture me on how dispatch works. I know exactly how it works. Your story seems great as if all the pieces fit together, obviously in the real world they do not.

I have to walk into every situation as if it in might be an armed confrontation, if LEO's are not, you are dead wrong. So a guy with a gun call, might actually be an armed confrontation. Furthermore, just because information comes out one way doesn't mean things will be exactly like that when the officer gets there in fact they will most likely be completely different, that is how it works and that is how the real world works. No situation has ever turned out exactly how it was dispatched.

And don't lecture me on the law. I know the law. Just because you have the right to carry does not give you an automatic law school diploma.

GET OVER IT. RELAX. Take everyone's thoughts and learn something each day. It's okay to hear other ideas and use them or not use them.

[ldmaster]

You MUST be an LEO,

As you told me several times to NOT tell you how things work, or what things are. Gonna hunt me down now?

If you took the "coward" comment personally, I wish to say that it wasn't intended that way - unless you find merit in it.

A coward is someone who expresses one opinion or principle in private, and fails to express it in public. Or, perhaps, abide by principles they say they hold dear, but clearly run in fear from being held accountable for exercising a right or expressing an opinion.

I think the operative word here is, "projection", frankly it wasn't ME that started the whole "what do you expect LE to do" part of the thread, it was you.

Calm down son, you're just hopping around with no real reason - unless it's one of those cases where you think you detect, "contempt of cop"? In which case, calm down - cant do you any good.

But spyder, I'm just not seeing where I'm angry! Passionate, ranting - yes - angry? I guess how it could be seen that way!

I'm just short of expecting the whole thread to get locked by MODs!

[Byte Stryke]

...
[Pop]

[TDYRanger]

I am still pissed I am not getting ownership rights of this photo. people steal a picture of my gun and then I get nothing for it!

where is the freaking bayonet?[ROFL2]

[KevDen2005]

You MUST be an LEO,

As you told me several times to NOT tell you how things work, or what things are. Gonna hunt me down now?

If you took the "coward" comment personally, I wish to say that it wasn't intended that way - unless you find merit in it.

A coward is someone who expresses one opinion or principle in private, and fails to express it in public. Or, perhaps, abide by principles they say they hold dear, but clearly run in fear from being held accountable for exercising a right or expressing an opinion.

I think the operative word here is, "projection", frankly it wasn't ME that started the whole "what do you expect LE to do" part of the thread, it was you.

Calm down son, you're just hopping around with no real reason - unless it's one of those cases where you think you detect, "contempt of cop"? In which case, calm down - cant do you any good.

But spyder, I'm just not seeing where I'm angry! Passionate, ranting - yes - angry? I guess how it could be seen that way!

I'm just short of expecting the whole thread to get locked by MODs!

As a matter of fact I am an LEO and I WOULD tell you these things in person. And you MUST get a lot of negative LE contact.

Get a life man, you are being ridiculous. Obviously I am not the one that needs to calm down. You talk an awesome game of not being a coward but have no problem doing your own projection on here. You have no idea who I am, what I have done, or would possibly have knowledge on whether I do things in public that I say that I would do in private.

No I don't think I am going hunt you down nor did I ever suggest I would, nor did I ever imply I would. I do love when people assume that about cops, that we spend every waking minute to catch people that don't matter in our society.

I still fail to see however, why you are so pissed off when I merely was just suggesting something and giving a LE aspect so we can all live and work together safely. I am on here to provide suggestions to everyone else as well as in the process learn from everyone, which I have done a great deal of that so far.

[spyder]

Folks, SOMEBODY should be angry.

Oh, gosh, it's probably time for somebody to call DHS and report my "anger" Isn't that what we're learning to do?





But spyder, I'm just not seeing where I'm angry! Passionate, ranting - yes - angry? I guess how it could be seen that way!


If it wasn't for those couple of lines, that is what threw me off.

[KevDen2005]

And I do apologize for the denim shorts comments. They were in jest, and I though we were all having fun.

I also wanted to say sorry for not making myself clearer in the beginning that I completely support 2A, that I support your decision to open carry, but was informing you why I wouldn't.

I also apologize for making you feel that as a cop I was TELLING you what to do rather than suggesting any and all alternatives in case you were curious

[spyder]

And I do apologize for the denim shorts comments. They were in jest, and I though we were all having fun.

I also wanted to say sorry for not making myself clearer in the beginning that I completely support 2A, that I support your decision to open carry, but was informing you why I wouldn't.

I also apologize for making you feel that as a cop I was TELLING you what to do rather than suggesting any and all alternatives in case you were curious
Aw see, cops can apologize! The devil will be sleeping in a cold place tonight... [ROFL1]

[Byte Stryke]

This is an April fools Gag, right?

[TDYRanger]

Yes as a police officer I see this often. A PD has an obligation and duty to answer a call for service, especially if it came in on a 911 line.

The most that soccer mom would have told a dispatcher is, "there is a guy with a gun," and officers have to respond and be ready for anything.

The PD is now put in a tough spot because they don't know what is going on and are responding based on that morons call. This is reality for all of us and something to think about when open-carrying, people are dumb. And the more people we get from CA and similar places, the more we can expect things like this to happen (I don't think all people from liberal places are liberal, some are moving here to get away from that).

Okay you get the call and roll out ready for anything. (Amped a little bit because dispatch said guy with gun, I would imagine) You get on the scene and there is Joe Citizen minding his own business; open carrying. What do you do as a Law enforcement guy? Do you pull him aside talk with him; do you disarm him; is it a guns out kind of moment? What are you inside your rights to actually do in that situation?

Really interested to know

[KevDen2005]

Aw see, cops can apologize! The devil will be sleeping in a cold place tonight... [ROFL1]


Thank you spyder for lightening my mood. I would like to think that I am more like people on here than what people assume cops to be like, even what I still assume cops to be like.

A man should always admit when he is wrong, and hence my apology, however I still feel it is uncalled for to call names or make such dramatic assumptions.

I am on here to have fun and apologize when necessary

[Byte Stryke]

This is an April fools Gag, right?


right?...





Guys?

[ldmaster]

Often enough. I'm used to the responses...

I'm a classical argumenter (ok, so debater or Lincoln/Douglas is more proper) I just don't see why people can't present arguments as passionately as possible without getting directly emotional.

But the internet is full of "flamers" and the like, things people would never say to someone's face get tossed around here all the time. I've always wondered what would happen if someone flipped someone off in traffic, and then immediately had their car stall out on them...

It's not anger, actually, it's more sadness. my profession has radically changed over the years. I don't like it. I am going to "out" myself here...

I'm a Kalifornia transplantee.

Worse, I moved here for a government job! At taxpayer expense!

I remember when I first moved here, I called a local PD where I lived and asked about firearms ownership laws. It was back in the late 80's. I was told that you could carry a loaded firearm in your car, as long as it was in full view, that open carry was legal and that the only time I needed a permit was if I wanted to carry concealed. At that time the biggest issuer of CCW permits was BOULDER COUNTY. yeah, who'd have thunk it?

The laws even back then in kalifornia were pretty draconian. But still, back in high school in SACRAMENTO (yeah, track me down...) I used to take my 22 to the principal's office for storage before going out to Lake Natoma to shoot rabbits after school. I'm pretty sure I illegally possessed my 22 since I wasn't 18 (didn't check the law back then) but the principal stored a few guns all the time for students who were doing things with them after school. A....... Mc.... In case you wondered about the name, he was a pretty good guy. Officer "Al" was our school resource officer, and just ten years prior my high school was the scene of National Guard tanks and APC's putting down riots after the murder of MLK.

I remember getting into a heated debate with the student body president about gun ownership, he was what I would now call a "flaming collectivist" and insisted that by the year 2000 gun ownership would be illegal in the USA. I didn't see it happening, because I wasn't an activist then and I was entirely ignorant of the real world. At some point politics took a VERY nasty turn and our rights (not just gun rights) started getting knocked down like bowling pins. There was a time when I could catch a kid doing something and take him home to momma, who'd probably spank him while I watched, with the report being a single line entry on my sheet. Nowadays I have "procedure" to "insure the rights of the juvenile" that pretty much dictates that I'm going to do a LOT of CYA to make sure I'm not sued or fired. Anyway, Roger (SB president) who planned on entering politics - said that if he had his way, my gun would be taken away from me and destroyed. Mind you, the issue was about the existence of guns, not that I should go to prison. Principal McGee snorted, laughed and told Roger to "mind his own business", that it was a constitutional right. But for all that, and all that shouted argument - we didn't think of it as being angry. What makes this even more remarkable, was that I went to an all black (except for about 10 percent) high school, I was the minority there.

I still think of my principal as a very brave man, I remember him breaking up fights and not taking a scratch - just by his presense. I could never imagine him EVER failing to express personal principle, as opposed to today's principals, or for that matter - any public employee.

Imagine that.

[KevDen2005]

Okay you get the call and roll out ready for anything. (Amped a little bit because dispatch said guy with gun, I would imagine) You get on the scene and there is Joe Citizen minding his own business; open carrying. What do you do as a Law enforcement guy? Do you pull him aside talk with him; do you disarm him; is it a guns out kind of moment? What are you inside your rights to actually do in that situation?

Really interested to know


This completely depends on the situation...

If I see guy with gun in holster while on patrol I most likely will not even contact him unless he otherwise (the key word here) is looking suspicious which could be any number of factors. In this case I might make a consensual contact and just ask him what he is up to (he is free to leave at any time) and get a sense of him. This is what I am being paid to do, and as a reminder I am not contacting merely because he has a gun.

As for a separate scenerio, guy is minding his own business and someone calls the police on him. Do I agree with soccer mom calling the police? No, I do not, however I am not allowed to make those kind of decisions. Our policy is to respond to every call for 911 or call for service, no matter what. And yes, this may depend a little on what dispatch as informed me, and I will reiterate that this information is not always accurate because the caller may be inaccurate and the way it is presented may be inaccurate. Or I may be around the corner and on scene before a ton of info may come out.

During my required contact and investigatory stop I am allowed to remove the firearm from the person being contacted. Once the contact is over I would give him the firearm back and say have a nice day (provided they weren't actually doing anything...still trying to joke I guess...). Whether I do or not will be dictated by the situation...so there is no yes everytime or no everytime.

Also, he may be doing nothing when I get there (and in this scenario that was the case the whole time) but someone who actually did something may also be nothing when I get there.

Food for thought.

Hope I don't spark any hatred...

[KevDen2005]

right?...





Guys?


If it is you guys got me

[Byte Stryke]

Oh Gawd Mommy And Daddy Are Getting A Divorce!

[KevDen2005]

Oh Gawd Mommy And Daddy Are Getting A Divorce!

[Beer]

I feel like I am back in the army...you know when you are pissed off and everyone else makes hilarious comments that you have no choice but to just forget about it lighten up...

But I did want to make this clear because I feel that I haven't. My original point was, I am a huge supporter of this although do not prefer to open carry (which believe it or not is against our department policy off duty). My point is, that I had an argument with another officer on the way he was interpreting a word in the law, which totally pissed me off. I wanted to say, just remember that those guys are out there. If I come to your call, I will be most likely on your side if someone called the cops on you for merely carrying a gun...

which obviously for the most part I was wrong again because many people on here have admitted doing it without any problems, so the more power to them

[ldmaster]

What do I do?

Depends, as always, on circumstances.

I've been to a lot of scenes with normal citizens in possession of firearms.

As with all things, it's always tough to figure out who the bad guy is. Until then, unless someone is being out of line they keep them. This is true of countless encounters with private security, bounty hunters, homeowners and the like.

Remember, that if your'e going to take someone's gun away, there's two ways to do it - asking him to disarm - or forcing the issue. There is no third way. Forcing the issue means you're drawing your gun and offering to shoot somebody merely for possessing a gun in a situation where you feel your safety or the safety of others is in jeopardy.

I think someone pointed out that the cops up in Loveland just paid out 15,000 dollars to a man who was doing nothing but eating his lunch and open carrying.

I had better be able to articulate WHY I drew down on someone.

If you ask someone to disarm voluntarily, have you considered that you've just given someone permission to put his hand on his gun, and draw it from a holster?

There is no GREAT way to deal with it, but only if you consider it a problem.

I'd guess that several hundred times a day around this state a cop shows up to a call and someone there has a gun openly carried. Even more that are CCW. He'll never know about the CCW folks unless he asks. Dont think this is true? Think of the DOW, every single time they contact someone in their line of duty during hunting season, the other person is armed and openly carrying. Every - Single - Time. Very very seldom do they "seize" the firearms of a hunter, even temporarily.

And several hundred times a day, cops walk away from those scenarios without a scratch and sometimes blissfully ignorant of the existence of guns at the scene.

While It's understandable why a cop might disarm someone they think has commited a crime, or for safety reasons, it's not necessarily a MANDATE to do so. And, indeed, it presents it's own set of problems not the least of which is suddenly escalating the tension at a scene, where you are about to start asking questions about a potential crime, and you want people as relaxed and cooperative as possible.

I think that at some point, it was probably politicians that feared people with guns - not cops. Then, being political appointees, cops followed the orders to disarm people - and to risk their lives to do so.

Guns are such a polarizing thing, that I think it needs to be said that the public NEEDS an education about the gun culture and history of the USA.

That, for instance, the prohibition of the "discharge of a firearm" in the city limits had very very little to do with disarming people. But it was the ONLY way to safely unload a blackpowder muzzle loader, and back before the invention of cartridges signs were posted at the city limits that someone intending on "dis-charging" their firearm, should do so before entering the town, it spooks horses and scares children. A hunter, for instance, having perhaps fired his gun a few times in the course of a hunt, would want to immediately reload - and at the end of the hunt would want to clean his weapon, to unload it, he shot it.

How about the fact that PISTOLS were almost part of the National Firearms Act?

At some point a GI who risked his life and wanted to bring home a captured weapon was suddenly told he couldn't be trusted with it once back home? How does this make any sense at all?

The history of gun control, and the fear of the populace bearing weapons is entirely about control of a populace and not about public safety, that we even consider it so these days is a sad commentary on the state of our willingness to question why things are the way they are.

I couldn't care less WHAT a cop says or does if he/she contacts me for carrying openly. Why should I? Either they'll actually support my constitutional right, or they wont.

[TDYRanger]

This completely depends on the situation...

If I see guy with gun in holster while on patrol I most likely will not even contact him unless he otherwise (the key word here) is looking suspicious which could be any number of factors. In this case I might make a consensual contact and just ask him what he is up to (he is free to leave at any time) and get a sense of him. This is what I am being paid to do, and as a reminder I am not contacting merely because he has a gun.

As for a separate scenerio, guy is minding his own business and someone calls the police on him. Do I agree with soccer mom calling the police? No, I do not, however I am not allowed to make those kind of decisions. Our policy is to respond to every call for 911 or call for service, no matter what. And yes, this may depend a little on what dispatch as informed me, and I will reiterate that this information is not always accurate because the caller may be inaccurate and the way it is presented may be inaccurate. Or I may be around the corner and on scene before a ton of info may come out.

During my required contact and investigatory stop I am allowed to remove the firearm from the person being contacted. Once the contact is over I would give him the firearm back and say have a nice day (provided they weren't actually doing anything...still trying to joke I guess...). Whether I do or not will be dictated by the situation...so there is no yes everytime or no everytime.

Also, he may be doing nothing when I get there (and in this scenario that was the case the whole time) but someone who actually did something may also be nothing when I get there.

Food for thought.

Hope I don't spark any hatred...

Thanks for the response. It's good food for thought. Tough job don't envy you and would never want it.

[TDYRanger]

How about the fact that PISTOLS were almost part of the National Firearms Act?

At some point a GI who risked his life and wanted to bring home a captured weapon was suddenly told he couldn't be trusted with it once back home? How does this make any sense at all?



Sheeeeooot try to bring home a capture gun now. They would throw you in a hole and throw away the hole!!!

[KevDen2005]

Thanks for the response. It's good food for thought. Tough job don't envy you and would never want it.


No problem. Glad I could help. And my job is actually pretty enjoyable for the most part. I get to deal with a lot of good people along the way too.

I will never admit to knowing everything and if the time comes you have a question about this stuff that I don't know I will certainly research it for you and make us both better educated

[Irving]

I hope this is all here tomorrow so I can read it and catch up.

Anyway, does anyone else find it as intriguing as I do when our leo's argue with each other?

[TDYRanger]

I hope this is all here tomorrow so I can read it and catch up.

Anyway, does anyone else find it as intriguing as I do when our leo's argue with each other?

young cop/old cop, hard cop/soft cop, gung-ho super cop/protect and serve cop.... stop cop on cop crime

[KevDen2005]

I hope this is all here tomorrow so I can read it and catch up.

Anyway, does anyone else find it as intriguing as I do when our leo's argue with each other?


No Stuart, I do not find it intriguing because more often than not they probably actually agree with one another and took something the wrong way or misinterpreted something the other said and then the dick-measuring contest begins (in the case of males...I am not exactly sure what kind of contest women have in these situations...)[Weight]

[Byte Stryke]

young cop/old cop, hard cop/soft cop, gung-ho super cop/protect and serve cop.... stop cop on cop crime



pffft I am hoping they put on Bikinis and take it to the jello pool.
































[Puke]

[KevDen2005]

young cop/old cop, hard cop/soft cop, gung-ho super cop/protect and serve cop.... stop cop on cop crime


Here we are stereotyping again...

Come on now, haven't we learned anything[NoClue]

[KevDen2005]

pffft I am hoping they put on Bikinis and take it to the jello pool.



You kill me man

[spyder]

I hope this is all here tomorrow so I can read it and catch up.

Anyway, does anyone else find it as intriguing as I do when our leo's argue with each other?
I have met a few cops that I found out hated other cops I have known. I am telling you though, the apologizing was insane! Never would have thought I would have seen the day... [ROFL1]

[spyder]

Now I am curious though Ken, I was just thinking about the drop leg thing and I was wondering what you would do if you saw someone walking around with an MP5K stuck to their leg?

[KevDen2005]

Now I am curious though Ken, I was just thinking about the drop leg thing and I was wondering what you would do if you saw someone walking around with an MP5K stuck to their leg?

Probably think "Wow, they appear ready for anything."

I don't know to be honest, I might think, please don't let them rob a bank and please God please don't let this be a scene from the movie "Heat." Just kidding. I would definitely be curious and maybe do a consensual contact, and probably even strike up some gun conversation if I could, and make you late for whatever appointment you had since we would be deep in gun talk...[Coffee]

Otherwise I have to say, not sure, depends on the circumstances, and how many soccer moms "felt threatened" ha ha, had to throw that in there.

I have actually never shot one of those so I would most certainly be intrigued. I know a lot of people do things just for shock value too, and I would probably confess that as a fellow gun guy, who prefers concealed, why you do it that way...remembering this is all consensual at this point and more or less just trying to BS with you

[KevDen2005]

I have met a few cops that I found out hated other cops I have known. I am telling you though, the apologizing was insane! Never would have thought I would have seen the day... [ROFL1]


Seriously, come on....cops aren't that bad when it comes to stuff like this and common courtesies. I have tons of great contacts during a shift with people, and with a certain amount of pride have to say that many people that get contacted numerous times (whether good or bad) have requested me to respond because I may have knowledge of the situation and they liked working with me or they felt they were treated fair by me, even people that I have arrested previously...again I say, I am floating my own boat here because I am very proud of that

[spyder]

Probably think "Wow, they appear ready for anything."

I don't know to be honest, I might think, please don't let them rob a bank and please God please don't let this be a scene from the movie "Heat." Just kidding. I would definitely be curious and maybe do a consensual contact, and probably even strike up some gun conversation if I could, and make you late for whatever appointment you had since we would be deep in gun talk...[Coffee]

Otherwise I have to say, not sure, depends on the circumstances, and how many soccer moms "felt threatened" ha ha, had to throw that in there.

I have actually never shot one of those so I would most certainly be intrigued. I know a lot of people do things just for shock value too, and I would probably confess that as a fellow gun guy, who prefers concealed, why you do it that way...remembering this is all consensual at this point and more or less just trying to BS with you
Huh, good answer. I have only done it once and it was purely unplanned.

Seriously, come on....cops aren't that bad when it comes to stuff like this and common courtesies. I have tons of great contacts during a shift with people, and with a certain amount of pride have to say that many people that get contacted numerous times (whether good or bad) have requested me to respond because I may have knowledge of the situation and they liked working with me or they felt they were treated fair by me, even people that I have arrested previously...again I say, I am floating my own boat here because I am very proud of that
I don't dislike cops, actually, I like more than I dislike. Keep being a good guy, maybe one of these days you will get a call on one of these other hard asses on here and change their minds about you guys.

[KevDen2005]

Huh, good answer. I have only done it once and it was purely unplanned.

I don't dislike cops, actually, I like more than I dislike. Keep being a good guy, maybe one of these days you will get a call on one of these other hard asses on here and change their minds about you guys.


I have seen people open carry their rifles before and never thought anything about it and never got a call on it, drove right by. I think it also depends on where you work a little bit...if you work in Elizabeth and you don't see people carrying guns you may think, what is wrong. The opposite may be true in LA (if California had thought about protecting your rights and had better gun laws).

But I do appreciate the comment, and I think most people on here like cops more than they will admit. I have see a lot of good comments about cops from some that I didn't think possible. But seriously, I do appreciate it.

[ronaldrwl]

idmaster - thank God for cops like you. It gives me hope for the future. As far as the debate with KevDen2005, that illustrates how cops are conditioned to think, “I'm a cop and what I say is the law.” However it is enlightening to hear your opinions KevDen2005. I hope you don't hide them from us. I don't otherwise have any insight how real cops think.

I'm definitely for more open carry. It will re-condition everyone to get used to the fact that it's our right to own guns. And we're not a bunch of nuts.

I was in a minor car ascendent recently. I do have a CCW and was carrying in my truck which has lots of pro gun and anti obama stickers. After getting my ticket handed to me the officer was very polite. He said, I wish we could have met in better circumstances. Yes sir, me to. Do you have a gun? Yes sir. As a courtesy please let the us know you have a gun.

He told me the other guy also had a gun. The officer was very polite and young. But my CCW instructor recommended against telling cops you have a gun.

[colocowboy01]

I don't think anyone in here was saying that you shouldn't have open carried. Will it make you feel better if I open carry for a day too?

SO is open carry stupid like some have said. That would be like someone saying you should not open carry.

[Byte Stryke]

But my CCW instructor recommended against telling cops you have a gun.



I too have heard conflicting issues on this and in the mean time I Simply hand my CHP over with my DL, thus avoiding the "I have a gun" Statement.

So from the LEO perspective, is it better to not volunteer it and to simply answer truthfully if asked?

[porfiriozg]

i pose a question if you see a robbery and hold the bad guy at gun point i there a way that will end with out you getting shot

you may remember the home owner in Arizona that was shot by cops for stopping a burglar (holding him at gun point) till officers arrived.

[Monky]

i pose a question if you see a robbery and hold the bad guy at gun point i there a way that will end with out you getting shot

you may remember the home owner in Arizona that was shot for stopping a burglar (holding him at gun point) till officers arrived.

Who shot the homeowner in AZ? the guy he was holding at gun point? Or the officers?

[KevDen2005]

idmaster - thank God for cops like you. It gives me hope for the future. As far as the debate with KevDen2005, that illustrates how cops are conditioned to think, “I'm a cop and what I say is the law.” However it is enlightening to hear your opinions KevDen2005. I hope you don't hide them from us. I don't otherwise have any insight how real cops think.

I'm definitely for more open carry. It will re-condition everyone to get used to the fact that it's our right to own guns. And we're not a bunch of nuts.

I was in a minor car ascendent recently. I do have a CCW and was carrying in my truck which has lots of pro gun and anti obama stickers. After getting my ticket handed to me the officer was very polite. He said, I wish we could have met in better circumstances. Yes sir, me to. Do you have a gun? Yes sir. As a courtesy please let the us know you have a gun.

He told me the other guy also had a gun. The officer was very polite and young. But my CCW instructor recommended against telling cops you have a gun.


I don't think anything I said was implied "What I say is the law." I am merely informing on different situations and interpretations. Again I am being completely misconstrued.

As for CCW. I have had great contacts with people who have them. When I conduct traffic stops the people that I have stopped that have them handed me the card with all of their stuff whether they had a gun or not. At the end of the contact I ALWAYS inform them that it is not a Colorado requirement to do so, however LEO's really appreciate when it is done. And because I appreciate it so much I usually release them with a warning for whatever traffic offense I stopped them for (when possible) as a courtesy in return.

At no time did I ever say anything to the effect of it's my way or the highway.

[KevDen2005]

Who shot the homeowner in AZ? the guy he was holding at gun point? Or the officers?


If it's the same case I am thinking of the answer is yes. Officers arrived and shot guy with gun, in this case it was the homeowner trying to protect his family without actually killing a bad guy.

The shitty thing here is that, if my memory serves me correct, the phone line was still open with 911, or something like that and the officers were overheard on how to cover themselves to not get into trouble.

I wasn't there so I hate to monday morning quarterback the initial shooting, however, the cover up portions is the part where cops everywhere get a bad name, in my opinion. It sounds like they acted too fast, like I said I wasn't there.

I understand it is hard for people to admit when they messed up and so on, but this is a situation where mistrust in the system and the police are even furthered. People who are law-abiding are in fear of being shot. I don't blame them. I think about this whenever I think of any scenario where I would use my gun off duty.

This is what I can remember, if anyone has better info please share

[TFOGGER]

I too have heard conflicting issues on this and in the mean time I Simply hand my CHP over with my DL, thus avoiding the "I have a gun" Statement.

So from the LEO perspective, is it better to not volunteer it and to simply answer truthfully if asked?

Totally off topic...

I'm pretty sure my CHP got me out of a pretty ugly speeding ticket the other day. I wasn't carrying, but didn't want any surprises coming up in the computer when he ran my license, so I handed him my permit with my license and paperwork He asked if I was armed, I said no, but I didn't want any surprises. He thanked me, ran my license, and told me I should probably slow down (He got me on laser +24). He also asked me what I did for a living...seemed surprised when I said "I own a motorcycle shop". [Beer]

[rondog]

To the LEO's - just curious here, but when you're doing an investigation/interview of a person open carrying, and you disarm/take control of the person's gun for whatever reason..... is it policy to unload that weapon? Or is it normally left as-is, just temporarily taken control of?

I personally would think that the more a gun is handled, the more potential danger there is. Talking to an OC'er and not disarming him seems to me to be far safer for everyone than having him hand over his gun, or physically taking his gun, and then unloading it, then reloading it, reholstering etc.

After all, a gun can't just "go off" if nobody's handling it. Seems to me that handling a firearm in a public setting should be avoided by everyone concerned if at all possible.

As far as OC is concerned, I'm still too damn scared to try it. I'm sure it would bring misery unto me at some point, in one way or another. One of those things that I'd love to try, but there really isn't any need for me to.

[Elhuero]

I don't open carry because I'm unlucky.

with my luck streak I'd get a perfect storm of a busload of soccer moms and an officer who's girlfriend just dumped him that would land me in jail.




I've got a HUGE problem with cops telling citizens that they need to avoid doing something so that the "dont' have a problem". It's one thing to advise a citizen to not go into a bad neighborhood carrying cash falling out of your pockets, it's another thing entirely to advise them to not draw the attention of the police department that is SUPPOSED to be there to keep the peace.




so do I.

and I'm really glad I don't live in CA, where you can only open carry unloaded and the police will stop you and check the firearm is indeed unloaded and "to make sure its not stolen"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsl0W5wWpQw&feature=channel_video_title

in this video, the officer tells the guy that he's also a second amendment supporter but that he shouldn't open carry because that's just going to make people call the police, and OC will just wind up getting outlawed, so he's not doing gun rights a favor by open carrying.

that is just stupid. that is like supporting abortion as a deterrent for sudden infant death syndrome and bathtub accidents.

better not exercise your right, or you will lose it. yeah, that makes sense officer.

but I will say one thing. if I lived in CA, or if CO enacted open carry laws like CA, I would start to open carry EVERY DAY.

EDITED TO ADD: oh, and that youtoube video is not alone. lots of videos showing police from ALL OVER the country, not just california, showing gross ignorance of the law. part of the reason why I'm critical of police.

[Monky]

Totally off topic...

I'm pretty sure my CHP got me out of a pretty ugly speeding ticket the other day. I wasn't carrying, but didn't want any surprises coming up in the computer when he ran my license, so I handed him my permit with my license and paperwork He asked if I was armed, I said no, but I didn't want any surprises. He thanked me, ran my license, and told me I should probably slow down (He got me on laser +24). He also asked me what I did for a living...seemed surprised when I said "I own a motorcycle shop". [Beer]

I've had that happen.. I swear I got out of the ticket cause I was carrying and informed the CSP officer...

[KevDen2005]

To the LEO's - just curious here, but when you're doing an investigation/interview of a person open carrying, and you disarm/take control of the person's gun for whatever reason..... is it policy to unload that weapon? Or is it normally left as-is, just temporarily taken control of?

I personally would think that the more a gun is handled, the more potential danger there is. Talking to an OC'er and not disarming him seems to me to be far safer for everyone than having him hand over his gun, or physically taking his gun, and then unloading it, then reloading it, reholstering etc.

After all, a gun can't just "go off" if nobody's handling it. Seems to me that handling a firearm in a public setting should be avoided by everyone concerned if at all possible.

As far as OC is concerned, I'm still too damn scared to try it. I'm sure it would bring misery unto me at some point, in one way or another. One of those things that I'd love to try, but there really isn't any need for me to.


Totally depends on the circumstances of why that person is being contacted...sometimes yes it is safer to leave on person and other times no...

[rondog]

Totally depends on the circumstances of why that person is being contacted...sometimes yes it is safer to leave on person and other times no...

Thanks! But what about the unloading part?

[KevDen2005]

Thanks! But what about the unloading part?


Again, it has been experience that it really depends on the circumstances AND how comfortable the LEO is with the gun...yes believe it or not, not all LEO's are as familiar as the movies make them out to be.

Sorry about the vagueness, it's just one of those things that if I disarm someone, and am very familiar with guns, I would most likely clear it, and that again is IF I disarm someone. That's just me handling guns often and always checking the status of firearms that I am in "possession" of

[spyder]

Again, it has been experience that it really depends on the circumstances AND how comfortable the LEO is with the gun...yes believe it or not, not all LEO's are as familiar as the movies make them out to be.

Sorry about the vagueness, it's just one of those things that if I disarm someone, and am very familiar with guns, I would most likely clear it, and that again is IF I disarm someone. That's just me handling guns often and always checking the status of firearms that I am in "possession" of
So, to clarify for me, if some scared little halfwit calls me in for no reason and the police show up, I have to give up my pistol? Or can I say no, because they have no reason to take it from me? Just a question, I would gladly hand it over to make it all easier, but, just want to know.

[KevDen2005]

So, to clarify for me, if some scared little halfwit calls me in for no reason and the police show up, I have to give up my pistol? Or can I say no, because they have no reason to take it from me? Just a question, I would gladly hand it over to make it all easier, but, just want to know.


That police may take it and justify safety reasons, but no it doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to take it...

[spyder]

That police may take it and justify safety reasons, but no it doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to take it...
So, on a MWAG call, you can take my gun away from me without my consent? Don't I have to be detained on reasonable suspision which is not covered on one of those calls? Wouldn't there be a 4th amendment right violation there?

[Elhuero]

So, on a MWAG call, you can take my gun away from me without my consent? Don't I have to be detained on reasonable suspision which is not covered on one of those calls? Wouldn't there be a 4th amendment right violation there?


my apologies to kev, he makes good posts and seems like one of the good guys so I hope he doesn't get too offended at this.

yes the police can take your gun away without your consent, and yes they can detain you for any or no reason they like.

sure there might be a 4th amendment violation, but the most that will happen is you'll spend some time in a cell then they'll let you go without filing charges and you may or may not get your gun back.

sounds like a shitty deal, and it can be, but that's the way it is.

always ask "am I being detained" if the officer says no then BEAT FEET.

if you are being detained say yes sir, no sir, be polite and don't shoot your mouth off. if you resist or cause them any problems you automatically become the bad guy. they can book you for disorderly conduct, impeding and investigation, or any number of things just to make your life miserable. it happens every single day.

[Irving]

It may be common for them to keep your weapon during the duration of your contact with them, and to give them a chance to "run it." It is less common to have them take it all together, but still possible.

[cstone]

There are some court recognized exceptions to the warrant requirements for searches. Consent, plain view, search incident to arrest, exigent circumstances, hot pursuit, impending destruction of evidence, etc... Articulation is part of police training. If the officer can articulate a reasonable and legal reason for the actions he takes, he/she will probably be justified and upheld in court. If he/she goes on an unjustified power trip or unreasonable fishing expedition there are a host of remedies available to a citizen with a savvy attorney.

Never argue with a cop in uniform on the street. It's like being in the proper lane while having a head on collision with a tractor trailer. Sure, you were right, and maybe your beneficiary will see some cash. Small benefit to you.

[KevDen2005]

my apologies to kev, he makes good posts and seems like one of the good guys so I hope he doesn't get too offended at this.

yes the police can take your gun away without your consent, and yes they can detain you for any or no reason they like.

sure there might be a 4th amendment violation, but the most that will happen is you'll spend some time in a cell then they'll let you go without filing charges and you may or may not get your gun back.

sounds like a shitty deal, and it can be, but that's the way it is.

always ask "am I being detained" if the officer says no then BEAT FEET.

if you are being detained say yes sir, no sir, be polite and don't shoot your mouth off. if you resist or cause them any problems you automatically become the bad guy. they can book you for disorderly conduct, impeding and investigation, or any number of things just to make your life miserable. it happens every single day.


I truly appreciate that and I don't always agree with practices of law enforcement or government either.

If an officer asks for consent you may just want to say "No." A lot of times however, officers ask for consent even if they can justify something else just to have more support, i.e. Plain view in a car, I may also ask for consent, both look good in my report.

I have to disagree a little bit, the detained stop better be articulated enough so that as an officer you aren't violating rights...which new officers or poorly trained officers may do, without even knowing, at which point, I don't want anything to do with the call they are on because I have no desire to have a case in the supreme court titled, US v. KevDen2005.

[Irving]

From what I understand, you can say no to a search of your person, but not to them running your guns.

[KevDen2005]

From what I understand, you can say no to a search of your person, but not to them running your guns.


Which I try not to do unless we are actually taking criminal action against a person...I hate being that guy

[DFBrews]

I had a scenario a couple weeks ago that i thought was a decent encounter for what it was. I was stopped on the way home from work for my tail lights flickering by CSP. long story short i did not have a valid license because of an error of the court and mostly my fault as well and a couple other things that the court will decide in May. Ended up having my car impounded. I have my application in for my CCW in to Arapahoe right now but for practice/ practicality as far as pants sizing i always have a loaded mag and empty IWB holster on. When we where going thru my personal items before my car was towed I asked to grab my 3 ring binder that has my certificate of taking the class and state laws and basic legal stuff and described it as such. He was very decent about the whole thing and took me at my word as far as having a firearm in the vehicle or not. He gave me a ride to a nearby king soopers and only did a quick pat down and identified the mag and holster and left it at that, and even shook my hand when he dropped me off.

besides the costing me a substantial amount of cash to get the car out of impound/ getting my license back and not knowing what will happen when I go to court I will say it was a positive exp.

[Irving]

DMV won't talk to you without a lawyer just so you know. They are WAY worse than going to court. You MUST be lawyer represented to fight anything with DMV. They are worthless. Just a heads up.

[DFBrews]

DMV won't talk to you without a lawyer just so you know. They are WAY worse than going to court. You MUST be lawyer represented to fight anything with DMV. They are worthless. Just a heads up.

What do you mean? I have/need to lawyer up for this?

[Irving]

Yeah. My fiance lost her license because of a mistake that the DMV made. They wouldn't even talk to her until she lawyer'd up. Once she brought her lawyer, she did 100% of the talking, pointed out everything wrong with her file, pointed out more incorrect things with her file once they brought it all out, and saved herself a year of not having a license because of the DMV's mistake. Her file was super messed up and had tickets for her from a person with a completely different name.

Again, DMV told her to get lost initially, and only after she paid something like $1,200 to a lawyer, who literally only showed up and didn't even say/do anything, would DMV review her file with her. The guy she met with even said something like, "Wow, there is a ton of incorrect information in here."

Stupid assholes. At least in court you can represent yourself without anyone standing in your way.

[KevDen2005]

Yeah. My fiance lost her license because of a mistake that the DMV made. They wouldn't even talk to her until she lawyer'd up. Once she brought her lawyer, she did 100% of the talking, pointed out everything wrong with her file, pointed out more incorrect things with her file once they brought it all out, and saved herself a year of not having a license because of the DMV's mistake. Her file was super messed up and had tickets for her from a person with a completely different name.

Again, DMV told her to get lost initially, and only after she paid something like $1,200 to a lawyer, who literally only showed up and didn't even say/do anything, would DMV review her file with her. The guy she met with even said something like, "Wow, there is a ton of incorrect information in here."

Stupid assholes. At least in court you can represent yourself without anyone standing in your way.

Was this at the Department of Revenue in Lakewood?

[tonantius]

This has been an interesting thread. I thank KenDev2005 for his candor and good nature. I also thank Idmaster for the relation of this open carry story.

I agree that I am a coward for not open carrying and relying on my concealed carry. I believe that if someone makes a call to 911 to complain of an open carry, I thik I should be able to sue them for violating my civil rgiths. Let's look at an analogy.

911 caller: There's a minority person in my neighborhood. We don't have minorities in my neighborhood. I feel uncomfortable. I feel threatened.

LEO is dispatched. Civil Rights lawsuit follows. This actually happened after 9/11 in some states.

This is no different than open carrying. In fact I am sure that the Second Amendment Foundation is preparing the way on this one.

[Irving]

Yep, the Lakewood one.

[Mtn.man]

We open carry when we go ATV riding, funny no one has eve really panicked or given us the weird eye even when we are loaded to the gills with hip pc's ar's etc.
Coming out one day a FS LEO was coming up the road he stopped we stopped he asked about our atv stickers, asked if had a good time asked about our weapons, waved and drove away.