Lemme get this straight ...

[Zundfolge]

We burn Korans and they'll kill blue helmets? (http://bigpeace.com/elcid/2011/04/01/koran-burned-in-florida-12-killed-in-retaliation/)


Hmm ... I'm gonna have to think about this one for a bit.

[2008f450]

I know where I can get a dozen Korans today.

[bobbyfairbanks]

I would join you for that but we could discriminate, we would have to burn the Bible and the Tora as well. I am telling those people are truly booger eaters.

[Byte Stryke]

Thousands of protesters mobilized after a midday sermon, then surged toward the offices of the United Nations in Mazar-e Sharif, northern Afghanistan’s largest city and normally a bastion of calm.
Some in the crowd broke into the U.N. office and attacked the staff, killing security guards and members of the U.N. mission, officials said.


but, but, but... its a religion of peace!

In all fairness, as with any religion there are the extremist nut-jobs that will kill in the name of the invisible man behind the cloud if it suits their needs or profits them in some manner.


[Mad]

[Hoosier]

In all fairness, as with any religion there are the extremist nut-jobs that will kill in the name of the invisible man behind the cloud if it suits their needs or profits them in some manner.

This. Islam just has far more zealots than most other religions.

H.

[spyder]

This. Islam just has far more zealots than most other religions.

H.
Hmmm, I think that the catholics might have them beat, especially through out history.

[Zundfolge]

This. Islam just has far more zealots than most other religions.

H.

One can argue that the violent zealots of other religions are either not following their own religion's teachings 100% or are otherwise misunderstanding them. Conversely the violent zealots of Islam are following the tenants of their faith more closely than those that are peaceful and moderate.

Killing non-believers for Christ is arguably wrong under Christian teaching.
Killing non-believers for Mohamed is a direct order in the Koran.

Islam IS the religion of peace ... they just define peace as "everyone else dead or converted" whereas we define peace as "the absence of conflict".

[CrufflerSteve]

Hmmm, I think that the catholics might have them beat, especially through out history.

That's probably true but not any longer. I think it was the Reformation that splintered Christianity so that eventually there were enough groups so religious freedom got redefined from "My right to kill anybody who disagrees with me" to our modern approach. If you offend Christians you might get picketed. Congresscritters might want to cut your funding. When actual violence happens it is rare and newsworthy like some guy killing an abortion doc and getting sent to jail. No more mobs cutting off heads and burning people. This is like a window into our past 800 years ago. I have no idea how to civilize savages. My mind tends to wander into politically incorrect areas like neutron bombs.

Steve

[spyder]

Killing non-believers for Mohamed is a direct order in the Koran.


Where does it state that again? Really, I don't know much about the koran. Direct quotes would be nice, no opinions.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Where does it state that again? Really, I don't know much about the koran. Direct quotes would be nice, no opinions.

For Islam converts - “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)

For the infidels - "Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day…. Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! (Sura 9:5,29,41)

I still have a childhood notebook full of Koran quotes - Like The Bible, you might argue this is out of context, but unlike The Bible, Koran commands you instead of the usual 'story telling' setting like any other religious text.

I was 'forced' to read and study the damn Koran until 7th grade and finally our family had to leave everything behind and fled the Muslim onslaught. W/ that in mind, I hate every single of them w/ every cell in my body. Hows that for a right wing extremist? [Tooth]

[Zundfolge]

Where does it state that again? Really, I don't know much about the koran. Direct quotes would be nice, no opinions.

"When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them." Sura 47:4

"Kill those who join other gods with Allah wherever you find them; besiege them, seize them, lay in wait for them with every kind of ambush." Sura 9:5

"Allah revealed His will to the angels, saying: 'I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers!' That was because they defied Allah and His apostle. He that defies Allah and his apostle shall be sternly punished by Allah." Sura 8:12-13

"And fight them until there is no more fitnah [disbelief or worship of others besides Allah] and the religion will all be for Allah alone in the whole world. But if they cease [worshiping others besides Allah] then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do." Sura 8:39

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Sura 9:73

Note that one of the important aspects of Islamic jurisprudence is the concept of abrogation. New verses that contradict old verses abrogate the old verses (replace them).

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" Sura 2:106
So you have to understand the order in which the books of the Koran are written (because they are not arranged in chronological order in the Koran, they are arranged in order of size, largest to smallest). The 9th Sura was written last and thus it outweighs all the other books.

This is the central argument against the concept of "peaceful Islam" (because some of the earlier Suras written when Mohammad was living in Mecca contain many verses admonishing Muslims to be kind, tolerant and peaceful with their infidel neighbors. Many Muslims cite these verses as proof that Islam is peaceful).


A good place to start if you want to learn more about the Koran is Robert Spencer's Qur'an Commentary (http://www.jihadwatch.org/quran-commentary.html) (I kept spelling Qur'an as Koran in this post because frankly its easier to type quickly ... I do believe with the Q and the ' is probably more correct).

[ChunkyMonkey]

[INDENT]
A good place to start if you want to learn more about the Koran is Robert Spencer's Qur'an Commentary (http://www.jihadwatch.org/quran-commentary.html) (I kept spelling Qur'an as Koran in this post because frankly its easier to type quickly ... I do believe with the Q and the ' is probably more correct).

Yep, Al-Qu'ran is the correct direct translation from the Arabic.

[<MADDOG>]

Both of you guys beat me to the punch...

[Colorado Luckydog]

Where does it state that again? Really, I don't know much about the koran. Direct quotes would be nice, no opinions.

You would have to be livng under a rock not to know that.

[Dirt Diver]

You would have to be livng under a rock not to know that.

+1

[ChunkyMonkey]

that's not the only thing...

rCFMDLakxaY [ROFL1][ROFL2]

[Byte Stryke]

and just as in any other religion, there are the moderates that arent out to kill every non-muslim they meet.
Just as Christians have pretty much stopped killing Adulterers, witches and idolaters. By my estimates the witch trials have occurred in the unites states much more recently than 800 years.
and religious persecution by Christians occurs to this day.

nut-jobs on both sides, just a little more press with the Muslims now.

[Mtn.man]

can't we just kill them all and let the whomevers divi them up...

[Irving]

So in the Bible, there is the New Testiment, that is basically more peaceful than the Old Testament and is supposed to outweigh the Old T; right?

From what it sounds like, the Koran is similar in that newer writings outweigh older ones, but unlike the New Testament, the newer Qu'ran writings are not more peaceful. Is that about the jist of it?

[Colorado Luckydog]

and just as in any other religion, there are the moderates that arent out to kill every non-muslim they meet.
Just as Christians have pretty much stopped killing Adulterers, witches and idolaters. By my estimates the witch trials have occurred in the unites states much more recently than 800 years.
and religious persecution by Christians occurs to this day.

nut-jobs on both sides, just a little more press with the Muslims now.

Holy Mother Of Pearl, I don't even have a response for that statement. Just a little more press??? WTF! Sounds like something Obama would say.

[Elhuero]

Holy Mother Of Pearl, I don't even have a response for that statement. Just a little more press??? WTF! Sounds like something Obama would say.


9/11 is fading fast

[Byte Stryke]

Holy Mother Of Pearl, I don't even have a response for that statement. Just a little more press??? WTF! Sounds like something Obama would say.


Fine... I'll say it



Westboro BAPTIST CHURCH

not saying one faith is better than the other.
Faith is a wonderful thing, but anytime one man convinces another man that god said this and now you have to do it for me... er, I mean him.


I personally see organized religion as a threat to personal freedom in which fear and persecution supplant reason.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Don't make this as Christian VS Muslim thing. There are nutjobs in every group whether it is a religious one or political groups.

That being said, the nicest Moderate muslim you may have known will obey his/her religion and kill w/o question asked in the name of Allah if they are required too.

My childhood friend turned against me and my family eventhough he was begging for forgiveness as he was helping the mob trying to kick out the Christian from the very same land I was born in.

While not all of Muslims are extreme, Not one will condemn another muslim's act when it comes to killing the infidels such as myself.

I believe this is the first Muslim thread of the year, so I ll play until I get bored. [Weight]

[Zundfolge]

Every religion has its violent kooks.

The difference between Islam and Christianity however is that the Christian kooks get strongly condemned by the majority of Christians when they do something violent and you can also look at scripture and show the violent kook where they are acting contrary to the very Christ they claim to follow. Violent kook Muslims are the ones strictly obeying Mohammad and for the most part the moderates will not condemn the violent acts (yes there are a handful of exceptions ... and these exceptions are in serious danger from the violent ones).

Furthermore, Christianity teaches to love your enemies and be honest with everyone. Islam says your enemies are God's enemies and you are REQUIRED to lie to them about even your own religion's teachings in order to advance the cause of Islam (which is world domination) this is a concept of Islamic jurisprudence called Taquia.

Islam is a totalitarian and supremacist ideology (and its not just a religion, its also a political and economic system too). By design it CAN NOT co-exist with non-Muslim cultures indefinitely (no mater how many quaint little bumperstickers you plaster on the backsides of Subarus and Priuses).

Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Animists, Pagans, Atheists even Ford and Chevy owners can co-exist indefinitely with each other (as long as nobody tries to force their belief on the others ... and in none of those belief systems is forcible conversion required or even allowed in most ... hell you have to be born a Zoroaster, you can't even convert). But throw Islam in the mix and eventually you WILL have a holy war. It is the core of Islam (which by the way means submission).

[Colorado Luckydog]

9/11 is fading fast

Only in your memory, not in mine. The only reason it is fading at all. is there are brave men trying to stop these assholes. If you think for one minute that we are not not under attack, you are only fooling yourself.

[spyder]

You would have to be livng under a rock not to know that.
Or, just wasn't something that I cared about at all. [Coffee]

[Zundfolge]

Actually I don't blame you for not knowing what is in the Koran ... comparative religion has always been an interest of mine, but most people don't go to the trouble to learn a lot about the religion they practice, let alone the others.

[spyder]

Actually I don't blame you for not knowing what is in the Koran ... comparative religion has always been an interest of mine, but most people don't go to the trouble to learn a lot about the language they practice, let alone the others.
I know some spanish and french, does that count? [Beer]

[Colorado Luckydog]

Fine... I'll say it



Westboro BAPTIST CHURCH


I personally see organized religion as a threat to personal freedom in which fear and persecution supplant reason.

You"re probaly right, I've heard those crazies at Westboro have killed tens of thousands. Have you heard the term "comparing apples and oranges"? You are not even close. WTF!! Why would you care about the lack of reason, when you have none already? If it were up to you, we would all be shooting stupid bitches over parking spots.

[Zundfolge]

its late ... I need to go to bed (I fixed my post) :p

[mcantar18c]

Only in your memory, not in mine. The only reason it is fading at all. is there are brave men trying to stop these assholes. If you think for one minute that we are not not under attack, you are only fooling yourself.

X10
We, our Country, are under attack 24/7/365... enemies both foreign and domestic plotting and attempting physical and cyber attacks against the population and our gov't. The only reason you don't hear about most of them is because of the brave men in MIL and LE spending their waking hours working to stop them.