Burning a Koran: Right or Wrong?

[Bailey Guns]

I've been hearing a lot the past few days about the Koran burning in Florida. Muslims around the world, especially in Afghanistan and Pakistan, are acting with the predictable, violent outrage. Many people have been killed in the protests and at least one that I've heard of was beheaded.

Of course the Taliban leaders are blaming the US and inciting the people to riot and lash out violently.

Even Gen Petraeus said:

"We condemn, in particular, the action of an individual in the United States who recently burned the Holy Koran. We also offer condolences to the families of all those injured and killed in violence which occurred in the wake of the burning of the Holy Koran."I'm curious how others feel about this. I've heard many people say the actions of the Florida preacher who did this were wrong, he's endangered US lives all over the planet, etc... The thread on 1st Amendment rights also got me to thinking about this. I support not what the guy did, really, but his right to have a PEACEFUL protest and air his views. That's something Muslims don't seem to get in a lot of places.

Maybe I don't get it. I don't necessarily condone what he did because I just don't really see the sense in it. But I don't necessarily think it's wrong, either. And I sure don't blame him for causing the deaths of many people in the mid-East. I also don't see that his actions have put US lives in danger.

My take is this...radical Muslims will use any convenient excuse (such as this) to strike out at Americans. I blame the people who killed in the name of desecrating the Koran for the deaths. I think Petraeus is way outta line in what he said. The actions of some of these people confirm in my mind how wacked out so many of the Muslims are. It also confirms how so many of our leaders are politically correct and spineless. I expect more from a 4-star general. I've pretty much lost all respect for Petraeus...I guess the politics of a douchebag boss have corrupted him.

Religion of peace? I think not. This kind of thing makes it harder and harder for me to be accepting of the Muslim religion and not lump them all into the radical category of murderous thug and adopting the "kill them all" attitude.

[ronaldrwl]

It's a right

[Mtn.man]

The General is saying what he is told to say.

It is a right.

And radicals will use any excuse to continue.

[cstone]

There are too many muslims to "kill them all." All muslims are not responsible for the murder committed by some muslims. One human life is worth more than a million holy books.

Bad people need no excuse for their actions but will use any excuse available to justify their behavior to those who are ignorant.

[ghettodub]

It's a right, while I think it's stupid and pointless, it is still a right. If the media didn't cover that crap as much and sensationalize it so much, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. I don't believe that every muslim is bad and wants to kill all Americans, and just as many people have been killed in the name of Christianity too.

I dunno, I guess my rambling is just going towards "I wish people would just care about their own shit, and not what everyone else is doing."

And now, a related video that this thread reminded me of.



vdtFk_V6A4M

[Bailey Guns]

The General is saying what he is told to say.

Yeah, maybe. But to me, that even makes it worse. If he was a Lt or Captain with his whole career ahead of him...well, OK. I can understand that a little easier.

But a guy who just appears to be selling out time after time? And he's an O-10 with probably 30+ years of service. I like to think I'd tell Obama to pack sand. I've quit far lesser jobs with no backup plan because I didn't want to go along with the "program". This guy sure isn't worried about retirement or promotions or anything like that.

No...he's a sell-out.

[roberth]

General Petraeus is doing the PC thing which I expect him to do, Petraeus is doing the bidding of his boss.

The Florida preacher is not wrong, stupid yes, but he isn't wrong. I'm stupid too though, the only reason I haven't bought and burned a koran is because I'd rather spend my money and time on other things.

Muslims will take any excuse to end a life they disagree with. Generally speaking all Muslims support these murders through their silence.

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah...lots of people were killed in the name of Christianity...several hundred years ago. And when violence happens now in the name of Christianity, Christians everywhere quickly and loudly denounce it. I hardly think that's comparable to what goes on in the Muslim religion.

You don't see Christian preachers and priests advocating violence against the rest of the world in any mainstream Christian church. You see it everywhere in the Muslim religion.

[Monky]

I certainly hope this idiot isn't going to get tax payer funded security now..

If he can't deal with his own actions when he was warned LAST YEAR when he tried this same shit..then we certainly don't need to foot the bill for his protection.

[Bailey Guns]

Generally speaking all Muslims support these murders through their silence.

Yep...agreed. Which makes it harder for me to be "tolerant" of their religion.

[trlcavscout]

It is a right, right or wrong. If U.S. civilians are over seas in dangerous areas they are responsible for them selves. This stuff has happened before so people should be a little smarter about their own security, as should the UN.

[Mtn.man]

It is a right, right or wrong. If U.S. civilians are over seas in dangerous areas they are responsible for them selves. This stuff has happened before so people should be a little smarter about their own security, as should the UN.


Kinda the way we feel.

[ghettodub]

Yeah...lots of people were killed in the name of Christianity...several hundred years ago. And when violence happens now in the name of Christianity, Christians everywhere quickly and loudly denounce it. I hardly think that's comparable to what goes on in the Muslim religion.

You don't see Christian preachers and priests advocating violence against the rest of the world in any mainstream Christian church. You see it everywhere in the Muslim religion.

There are wackos in every religion, and sure, it has been a while since Christianity did that, but it did go on for what? A thousand years?

I don't totally disagree with you, and it's becoming harder to not lump them all in to one pile. I've just known too many Muslims who are very against the extremism that you see so much of today, so I try to not judge the entire group based on the nuts (which, unfortunately, is a lot of them...).

And back to your original point, it's idiots like this that makes me not like the first amendment at a lot of times (between Koran burners, Westboro, KKK, etc), but, it's still their right...

[Graves]

Much like sticking your d%#k in a toaster or throwing rocks at a hornet's nest, it's a right for sure; just don't expect me to feel for you when you get F'd up.

[bellavite1]

All religious extremes are bad.
This war is not a crousade, it is not about religion, at least not from our side.
If the preacher has enough balls he should go to Afghanistan and burn the Koran there.
He "shows" his balls here where it is warm and cozy and someone else has to deal with a bunch of raghead fanatics in Afghanistan and pick up the pieces...
Not cool.

[Bailey Guns]

Would that be the same ones we've (the US) been dealing with since Jefferson was president? (Not necessarily in Afghanistan...but the same fanatics)

[Lex_Luthor]

Unfortunately, all Muslims are encouraged to eradicate all non-believers who will not convert to Islam, as direct orders from "god" (Allah) via the prophet Muhammad. Muhammad himself killed hundreds, if not, thousands of people to demonstrate how it should be done in the name of their god. I agree with the previous statement that those who remain silent are showing their support for it. And when confronted with the same option to either kill a non-believer or denounce Islam, I bet 90% of Muslims would kill another human being to further spread their infectious religion.

Now, if the general or colonel or whoever he is, was referring to the Bible, would he have quoted the word "Holy" in front of it? And what walk of faith does he follow, if any?

[ghettodub]

Much like sticking your d%#k in a toaster or throwing rocks at a hornet's nest, it's a right for sure; just don't expect me to feel for you when you get F'd up.

[LOL]

[roberth]

Yep...agreed. Which makes it harder for me to be "tolerant" of their religion.

Exactly.

Funny thing about tolerance, it has an end point where folks just won't put up with the baloney any more. We're getting a little closer to that end point every time a Muslim murders someone in the name of their POS religion.

Sidebar - a 14 year old girl was murdered in Bangladesh after being accused of adultery. This is the Muslim mindset, maybe not American Muslims but they still support it through their silence.

http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=707:islamic-justice-14-year-old-girl-raped-charged-with-adultery-and-lashed-to-death-in-bangladesh&catid=49:bostom&Itemid=58

[ghettodub]

Yep...agreed. Which makes it harder for me to be "tolerant" of their religion.

I agree with you there. I'm having a much harder time being tolerant as well...

[Bailey Guns]

"Every day on television we are barraged by stories of a 'Muslim extremist, militant, terrorist, or insurgent. But the stories that are missing are the countless stories of Muslim tolerance, progress, diversity, service and excellence that Bridges TV hopes to tell."...said Muzzammil Hassan, a few years before beheading his wife in NY because she filed for divorce after years of abuse.

[alxone]

book burning is is wrong and so is flag burning for that matter . Sure its a right but so is jumping off a cliff . Just because im not a Muslim and i dont agree with there religion does not mean id go on a book burning rampage . Just think about the last bunch of a**h*l*s who went around burning books and what the world did to them . Dont want that to happen to the U.S. do ya ??

[DeusExMachina]

It is a right, but it is still wrong.

[Bailey Guns]

book burning is is wrong and so is flag burning for that matter . Sure its a right but so is jumping off a cliff . Just because im not a Muslim and i dont agree with there religion does not mean id go on a book burning rampage . Just think about the last bunch of a**h*l*s who went around burning books and what the world did to them . Dont want that to happen to the U.S. do ya ??

To be fair, the guy didn't go on a "book burning rampage". He burned one book. And as far as I know, he's not advocating that anyone else do it.

As far as not wanting "that to happen to the U.S. do ya??"...I'm really not sure what you're referring to...Nazi Germany? The Soviet Union?

So what's worse, then? Allowing people to exercise their 1A rights or denying them their 1A rights?

So how would you, I'm assuming as a gun-owner and member of an AR-15 forum, reconcile an anti-gunner saying to us, "Owning an assault rifle is a right. But that doesn't make it right", if you feel that way about the first amendment?

[Scanker19]

It seems to me that we can have freedom of religion but not anti religion? I get this crap all the time like when people pray they want me to take my hat off. hell with you that's your religion not mine. Go proselytize your crap some where else, and I won't try to Un-do your beliefs. To say this guy cause they people to die, is no worse than saying "political rhetoric" got what's her face shot in AZ.

Burn them all. and not just korans.

[Elhuero]

there's more to the story than just a book burning and muslim hate.

it's all politics.

watch this video.

http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/04/the-take-zakaria-on-the-quran-burning/


but I do think that middle eastern religion and culture is incompatible with American style freedom, and we need to have the balls to stand up for our way of life.

check the sig line

[ChunkyMonkey]

book burning is is wrong and so is flag burning for that matter . Sure its a right but so is jumping off a cliff . Just because im not a Muslim and i dont agree with there religion does not mean id go on a book burning rampage . Just think about the last bunch of a**h*l*s who went around burning books and what the world did to them . Dont want that to happen to the U.S. do ya ??

On the other hand, it shows the real nature of Islam. They beheaded some UN workers who are helping them locally and shot and stoned few guards and staff members over this. This is the same crowd of 'moderate muslims' who are pacified and are not with the Taliban.

Remember, the cartoon of Allah? the riots over the bible being brought by the US service member? the riots over female US members walking around in hotpants in SA? In Thailand, a business owner was torched for saying Merry Christmas to a customers who happened to be Muslims. It's my way or its your head!

[sniper7]

The way I see it: if his biting the koran gets the middle east fired up and killing each other...then where is the bon-fire?

It is his right. Mexico burns and discriminates our flag. Are we in each town cutting their heads off? No.

One muslim leader asked for tolerence of their religion. We expect the same so he can shut his pie hole.

I honestly don't care if all the korans get burned up. All the radicals with them.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't think the video said anything that hasn't been said here in so many words. But it's good to see those sentiments get some mainstream press.

[alxone]

To be fair, the guy didn't go on a "book burning rampage". He burned one book. And as far as I know, he's not advocating that anyone else do it.

As far as not wanting "that to happen to the U.S. do ya??"...I'm really not sure what you're referring to...Nazi Germany? The Soviet Union?

So what's worse, then? Allowing people to exercise their 1A rights or denying them their 1A rights?

So how would you, I'm assuming as a gun-owner and member of an AR-15 forum, reconcile an anti-gunner saying to us, "Owning an assault rifle is a right. But that doesn't make it right", if you feel that way about the first amendment?

just because its allowed that does not necessarily mean that you should . Do i feel that they should be stopped for burning books , no not really , it is there right after all . But this is where community comes into play . The guys neighbor or brother ect. should or would say hey do you realize the consequences of your actions (this might of happened , i dont know , i was not there) . But i would never say you cant burn a book , hell if you want to run around shouting hate and intolerance , i wont sop you , ill think its wrong , but i wont stop you because its your right . just like its my right to think its wrong .

[Demodave]

First, muzzies been killing Christians over there for a heck of a long time, and they will continue regardless if anyone burns anything, much less a POS koran.

Second, it wasn't about the friggin koran, it was about making a stand against islam. islam teaches that you must lay down your life to go to heaven ie, via suicide bomber. Bible teaches that Jesus already did that for us....

Petraeus is doing what he's told, doesn't have the cajones to stand up to the impostor in chief...

[Bailey Guns]

I really find your responses, alxone, very interesting. You're condemning this guy right and left for exercising a right, while saying it's wrong. When all he did was burn a book. And you're obviously not very familiar with the history on this...because he was going to do it in Sep last year but because of outrage against it in the community and in the press he decided against it.

At any rate, I understand you think it's wrong. But you've said nothing about the actions of the Muslims who've gone on killing sprees and using this non-event as the excuse to rationalize their actions.

[trlcavscout]

The way I see it: if his biting the koran gets the middle east fired up and killing each other...then where is the bon-fire?

It is his right. Mexico burns and discriminates our flag. Are we in each town cutting their heads off? No.

One muslim leader asked for tolerence of their religion. We expect the same so he can shut his pie hole.

I honestly don't care if all the korans get burned up. All the radicals with them.


I do have to say that it would be very entertaining to set a date and have a national burning day! I wonder how many of the dumb SOB's would get killed trying to burn flags etc. Then they would all be out in the open for some bombing practice. Plus it might bring out some sleepers here which would give us moving target practice, I am a little rusty I could use the practice.

[CrufflerSteve]

It's a right and I still wish he hadn't done it. The Pastor just seems like an attention junkie rather than trying to make a point. He's planned this on 9/11, got tons of international press and backed down. I think he went ahead since he missed the attention.

It does make it hard to say "Islam is a religion of peace" with a straight face. I hope the US has the cojones to stay the course and let the first amendment be absolute. The European countries go between rarely be tough and usually caving into this medieval behavior. I really don't know where it will end up but I suspect the barbarians will ultimately win.

Steve (still thinking that neutron bombs might be the solution)

[TFOGGER]

It is a right, but it is still wrong.

+1

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I am not a religious person, but I am a spiritual one, if you know what I mean. If someone wants to believe that their navel is the source of the universe, I will respect that...right up to the point that they try to convince ME to worship their belly button...

[alxone]

But you've said nothing about the actions of the Muslims who've gone on killing sprees and using this non-event as the excuse to rationalize their actions.
i not only think that they are wrong i also know for every action there is an equal reaction.
Id like to think or at least hope that they will get it in the end and in the worst way . I know i would never chop of a head over a difference of opinion. I know the likelihood of these people being brought to justice is slim to none. i feel we just have to trust in god a fate concerning things that happen on other parts of the planet.
do the actions of the muslims over there reflect on the muslims over here you bet they do , just like when the catholic church screws up it makes all christans look bad .
No one bad apple does not ruin the bunch but it sure does make the lot unappealing.

[ghettodub]

Petraeus is doing what he's told, doesn't have the cajones to stand up to the impostor in chief...

That brings up an interesting point: should he speak out against the president (his boss)? Would you do that in your job?

Not taking a side on either way here, just want to see what people think.

[tmckay2]

legally hes fine to do it. that doesn't mean the guy isn't a complete idiot. think about how your actions affect other people before doing stupid things. what, he felt so passionately about doing this that he was willing to put people's lives in danger? guy sounds like a moron. but yeah if they tried to take him to court or something id be the first to say he has every right to do it.

[Bailey Guns]

Why is he an idiot for doing this? Do you really think the non-event (this happened over 2 weeks ago) of burning a Koran is what incites these people?

We bitch constantly on this website about all sorts of things, not the least of which is radical Islam. But how many of us are willing to take at least some sort of public step to show the rest of the world, or just our modest congregation, how we feel?

This didn't become an event until Karzai denounced it and demanded the guy be jailed.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Karzai is taking millions in bribe from both US and Iran. This guy needs to disappear.

carry on...

[Delfuego]

Why is he an idiot for doing this?Because it a simple act of provocation, nothing more.

This didn't become an event until Karzai denounced itNow its Karzai's fault? Really???


BTW: 99.9% of Muslims did nothing and just went to work that day.

We should round up this .01% (Christians/Muslims/ETC) and send them to the island for a fight to the death. This alleged Pastor is just as afraid and ignorant as the people he opposes.

[FL410]

We are in a weird time in history where our National policy is no longer to kill our enemies and destroy their will to fight.

It is to to win their hearts and minds.

We learned the wrong lessons from the Marshal plan after WWII.

A lot of todays military doctrine was also developed by British and French occupational forces as they colonized the third world.

The main problem is that the Mission is not really defined:

Are we in AFG/IRQ to colonize them for the long term?

Are we there to reform them in our image?

Are we there to punish them?

Personally speaking, I think we should wage War as we did in WWII, then Maybe offer the survivors the chance to be Westernized. Actions that inflame the radicals would be beneficial for smoking them out.

Bloodthirsty killers from our history like Lemay, Sherman, or Patton would have wrapped this thing up years ago.

[Elhuero]

Because it a simple act of provocation, nothing more.
Now its Karzai's fault? Really???





yes.

if he had kept his fool mouth shut about it nobody would have died.

sure, the attack was carried out by taliban types, but karzai gave them the political motivation to do it.

free speech is protected, provocative or not. though their ideas may be idiotic to you, nobody is an idiot for exercising their liberties.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Because it a simple act of provocation, nothing more.
Now its Karzai's fault? Really???


BTW: 99.9% of Muslims did nothing and just went to work that day.


Yes, there was no Koran Burning. You do know that right? Karzai being a dumb politician he is, condemned something that never happened.

99.9% of muslims never condemned any killings, and applauded when 9/11 happened. They will also join the killing given the opportunity.

E.G. Today's Muslim killing related events include butchering of Christians in Ivory Coast and Stoning in Indonesia. Don't be so naive!
In fact you don't have to go to far. Many muslims think that I am one being where I came from. I have heard some of the most disgusting ideas, and what you called extremist talk here locally in Denver. FBI will not do anything, CBI says they are looking into it and thank you for reporting. I am hoping they do have some investigation or at least observation going w/o admitting it openly.

[Bailey Guns]

Because it a simple act of provocation, nothing more.
Now its Karzai's fault? Really???


BTW: 99.9% of Muslims did nothing and just went to work that day.

We should round up this .01% (Christians/Muslims/ETC) and send them to the island for a fight to the death. This alleged Pastor is just as afraid and ignorant as the people he opposes.

How many times per day are any of us provoked? It's all I can do sometimes to make it through the day without choking the life outta someone because they say things that are meant to provoke me. But I seriously can't remember the last time I cut someone's head off or rioted in the streets because of something someone said to piss me off. No...not buying the provocation theory. That's a copout. People are provoked all the time and don't do the sorts of things that the Muslims are doing over this.

I never said it was Karzai's fault. What I said was this was basically a non-event until he started running his suck about it. So...maybe what I mean is it's just as much his fault as it is Jone's fault.

And if 99.9% of Muslims "just went to work today"...that still leaves .1% (not .01% as you posted), or somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 to 160 MILLION Muslim troublemakers. Assuming your 99.9% figure is correct and assuming the most reliable estimates of a total world Muslim population of 1.5 to 1.6 billion are correct.

[ChunkyMonkey]

And if 99.9% of Muslims "just went to work today"...that still leaves .1% (not .01% as you posted),

hehehe good catch.

[Delfuego]

82% of statistics are made up.....

How you think that MY math (and/or typing skills) somehow proves your point is quite a leap.

And please don't site that Ivory Coast's situation is somehow; bad Muslims vs good Christians; is very mis-informed.

The Gbagbo supporters (Southern Christians) killed several Imams and burned several mosques. Who is being naive now?

It is the generalizations and double-standards that perpetuate racism in all cultures. I don't put up with racism in other countries, and especially here in the USA!

[Byte Stryke]

82% of statistics are made up.....

How you think that MY math (and/or typing skills) somehow proves your point is quite a leap.

And please don't cite that Ivory Coast's situation is somehow; bad Muslims vs good Christians; is very misinformed.

The Gbagbo supporters (Southern Christians) killed several Imams and burned several mosques. Who is being naive now?

It is the generalizations and double-standards that perpetuate racism in all cultures. I don't put up with racism in other countries, and especially here in the USA!


and 4/3 of the population doesn't understand fractions.
[ROFL1]

[Delfuego]

[ROFL1]That is AWSESOME!!! Made my day with that one. Thanks.

And if your going to correct my grammar and spelling, you will be promoted to moderator and will have to do this for all posters....[Neene1]

[Byte Stryke]

Please don't cite that Ivory the Coast's situation is somehow [adverb], bad Muslims vs good Christians, is very misinformed.




There, now I have corrected your grammar and spelling.

[LOL]

[ChunkyMonkey]

The Gbagbo supporters (Southern Christians) killed several Imams and burned several mosques. Who is being naive now?
!

You are being naive alright.. in 2002 the Muslim soldiers slaughtered the Christians worshippers, the tension has been high ever since.

Why do you want to pick on this particular area?.. how do you explain Rwanda, Sudan in the past 20 years?

1998 in Jakarta, 2000-2005 in Ambon, Indonesia, 2004 Iraq, the list goes on.

The argument is Muslim - let's not bring in any other religions. I understand that each groups have bad seeds. In Islam however, I have yet seen one good muslim that can be considered a decent human being.

[Delfuego]

And 4/3 of the population doesn't understand fractions.
[ROFL1]
Please allow me to reciprocate. Oh wait, we shouldn't start sentences with "And" should we?[Help] Damn public schools!

[alxone]

free speech is protected, provocative or not. though their ideas may be idiotic to you, nobody is an idiot for exercising their liberties.

well said

[roberth]

A body count would very heavily favor the Muslims, but we can't offend the Muslims 'cause we're a bunch of fuckin' pussies.

Hey look, something shiny!

People would do well to remember what religion murdered 3000 people on September 11, 2001, hint - it wasn't Christians or Jews. The 10th observance of that fateful day is coming up.

[Delfuego]

Why do you want to pick on this particular area?You brought up Ivory Coast, not I. I was simply alluding to the point that it that is never quite so cut and dry.

If you have never met a Muslim that could be considered a decent human being, then you have the problem.

And you "un-made" my day with that ignorant shit.

Delfuego out....

[Bailey Guns]

82% of statistics are made up.....

How you think that MY math (and/or typing skills) somehow proves your point is quite a leap.

And please don't site that Ivory Coast's situation is somehow; bad Muslims vs good Christians; is very mis-informed.

The Gbagbo supporters (Southern Christians) killed several Imams and burned several mosques. Who is being naive now?

It is the generalizations and double-standards that perpetuate racism in all cultures. I don't put up with racism in other countries, and especially here in the USA!

Wasn't a comment on your math skills. I was making the point that when you pull stuff outta your ass it's pretty hard to make your arguments sound reasonable or well thought out.

BTW - Islam isn't a race...it's a religion.

[alxone]

A body count would very heavily favor the Muslims, but we can't offend the Muslims 'cause we're a bunch of fuckin' pussies.

Hey look, something shiny!
shiny! where ![ROFL1][ROFL2] [ROFL3][LOL]

[roberth]

shiny! where ![ROFL1][ROFL2] [ROFL3][LOL]

[Beer]

Sorry to get OT but it pisses me off to no end when someone tries to compare the Islam and Christianity/Judaism. They have almost nothing in common, the former is a death cult, the latter promote life.

[Byte Stryke]

Just as with any religion, there are varying degrees of Islam from radical to label only.
During my years in Kuwait I have met both sides.
This isn't exclusive to Islam either, you will find this in pretty much all religion.


I dont advocate it, I will say that persecuting a Moderate or mild Muslim for the actions of the extremists is about as wrong as persecuting all of the Christians for the Crusades or for the crimes at Salem.
You can't throw all of them under one umbrella.

[ChunkyMonkey]

You brought up Ivory Coast, not I. I was simply alluding to the point that it that is never quite so cut and dry.

If you have never met a Muslim that could be considered a decent human being, then you have the problem.

And you "un-made" my day with that ignorant shit.

Delfuego out....

Sorry for not pleasing you. The world doesn't revolve around you. I was just responding to your specific response to ivory coast while you were ignoring the rest. You failed to realize that the Ivory Coast issue has been going on for a decade now.

Call me ignorant, but I was born in a muslim country, was forced twice to convert, and currently I am in and out of Federal court to help with the argument on the current federal govt is trying to change the status of the event in Indonesia from 'Muslim terrorist attack' to economic riot. The difference is hundreds of non muslim indonesian who came here and some of them are serving in the US military will loose their 'prosecution' status.

Since you think only .1% of them are extreme, I would love to see you fly out to any of the most moderate muslim country and prove your point.

I know some of the Vets here have been to the sandbox, and they can tell you that not all Muslims are bad- I'd tend to agree too if I am armed to the teeth. Try hanging out at the local market w/ US patch w/o any weapons - You'll see the true nature of Islam.

[spyder]

Aw, I just saw that my posts got deleted from the beginning... Anyway, [Pop] let the show go on...

[Lex_Luthor]

You can't throw all of them under one umbrella.

But can you throw them all under one BUS? [Fire]

[sniper7]

But can you throw them all under one BUS? [Fire]

That would be a negative. They blow busses up too fast

[zteknik]

is it right to burn the American flag? F no!!!-but they still do!!
we complain and it just gets brushed off!
Screw em!!fair is fair-dont like it-GET THE F OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!!!!
nuff said

[FireMoth]

Just so i can clear up this issue for my own understanding, let me get this straight:

We are trying to decide if 2 groups of people who claim to have relationships with entities that are other than human and talk to them in their heads, that no none else can see or verify, have the right to burn each others books that are largely based on a disagreement of interpretation of the same ancient text fragments.

Because its vitally important to establish whether a religion that damns homosexuality by forbidding any indication of sexuality in women and restricting men to being entertained by veiled cross dressers has the right to complain about people who celebrate the brutal torture and execution of their lord and savior by telling their children that a magical pink bunny leaves little chocolate eggs in the night, setting one of a number of extremely dry reading yet oddly quotable books alight.

[Monky]

Just so i can clear up this issue for my own understanding, let me get this straight:

We are trying to decide if 2 groups of people who claim to have relationships with entities that are other than human and talk to them in their heads, that no none else can see or verify, have the right to burn each others books that are largely based on a disagreement of interpretation of the same ancient text fragments.

Because its vitally important to establish whether a religion that damns homosexuality by forbidding any indication of sexuality in women and restricting men to being entertained by veiled cross dressers has the right to complain about people who celebrate the brutal torture and execution of their lord and savior by telling their children that a magical pink bunny leaves little chocolate eggs in the night, setting one of a number of extremely dry reading yet oddly quotable books alight.

Sounds about right. [Beer]

[Mtn.man]

I can't wait for 2012.

[spyder]

I can't wait for 2012.
That is going to be an interesting day... [ROFL1] 12-12-2012

[Monky]

That is going to be an interesting day... [ROFL1] 12-12-2012

Much like Y2k... I'm not expecting much.

[BREATHER]

First off let me say this, PC or politcal correctness has it's roots in Socialism. I for one, DO NOT believe in socialism. Socialism is just a front for the extremely wealthy and powerful to fool idiots into beleiveing that they are equal.

What that pastor did was just sensationalism. BUT it was not his fault for anyone being murdered. Humans are violent beings, period. All the hippies in the world will not change that. There are some that are more violent than others, and some have control for civil behavior.

It should be what it was back in the day, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. The United States needs to stop being a pussy.

[theGinsue]

I dont advocate it, I will say that persecuting a Moderate or mild Muslim for the actions of the extremists is about as wrong as persecuting all of the Christians for the Crusades or for the crimes at Salem.

I take issue with this line of reasoning which I hear used all of the time to "justify" the violence of the Muslim faith as little more than retribution for Christian aggression over the years.

Yes, the Salem Witch Trials occured in what would later become the U.S. within the last 325 years (Witchcraft trials started more than 450 years ago; documented evidence of this practice dates back to ~1560). In fact, the practice of putting people on trial for witchcraft actually started in Europe and was carried over into the various European colonies. But, this practice in the American colonies wasn't limited to JUST Christians (actually Puritans).

Now, the Christian Crusades are said to have occured somwhere around 1080 A.D. - 1300 A.D. Are we to believe that Muslims ar ejustified for seeking retirbution for actions that started ~930 years ago and ended ~710 years ago? Talk about holding a grudge.

Historical facts indicate that Muslims, including Muhammad himself, began their own Crusades against Christianity long before the European Christian Crusades. The reality is that you almost NEVER hear that the Christian Crusades were in fact a direct reaction to the ongoing Muslim Crusades which had been going on since around 630 A.D. (during this period - somewhere in the mid-700's A.D. is when the Muslims desecrated the most holy Jewish site - the site of Solomans Temple to install their most holy "Dome Of The Rock which still stands today, on the EXACT location of Solomans Temple).

[ChunkyMonkey]

- the site of Solomans Temple to install their most holy "Dome Of The Rock which still stands today, on the EXACT location of Solomans Temple).

I wonder if back then they called it a Community Center. [Coffee]

[lebru]

America is about religious tolerance, that was what we were founded on. He had every right to express his beliefs, but I don't think it was right because all it did was piss muslim's off even more.

I could honestly care less about religion. But I think this guy is kind of a wack job to begin with. Same guy from last september right?

[CMP_5.56]

Thanks for bringing that up Ginsue, glad to see a history buff on the forum. The two religions have been at odds for thousands of years, and this fight has cost the lives of more people than can be understood.

As far as I see it, fhe burning of the book was nothing more than someone speaking out in their own way. Whether I agree or disagree doesn't matter, he had the right to do it.

[streetglideok]

Yep...agreed. Which makes it harder for me to be "tolerant" of their religion.




Muslims will take any excuse to end a life they disagree with. Generally speaking all Muslims support these murders through their silence.

+1 on this too. How many muslims were aware of the 9/11 plans or recruitment, and turned a blind eye to this? You know they were working the mosques hard to find rejects to do their dirty work.

I strongly believe this pastor is well within his right to burn a koran. I dont think it was the smartest move, as it was going to cause trouble, but he had every right to do so. How often are those, umm, cloth headgear wearing individuals burning our flag over there? You dont see anyone in this country burning down mosques or lynching muslims here over it. Heck, with only a few exceptions, there wasnt widespread violence against muslims here after 9/11. If the shoe had been on the other foot, every one of them would be flying planes into our buildings, or loading their taxis with bombs here.

[CMP_5.56]

America is about religious tolerance, that was what we were founded on.

This is true to a point, but the puritains that first settled here also outlawed any religion but theirs as well. They came here to escape persecution over their religion, doesn't mean they were tolerant of others beliefs.

[lebru]

This is true to a point, but the puritains that first settled here also outlawed any religion but theirs as well. They came here to escape persecution over their religion, doesn't mean they were tolerant of others beliefs.

but the founding fathers set it up so that you could worship your religion without persecution from the government. since it had happened to them, they didn't want it happen to others here. they saw how religion only caused problems. was it john adams who said that they would not involve themselves with foreign matters regarding religion?

[spyder]

+1 on this too. How many muslims were aware of the 9/11 plans or recruitment, and turned a blind eye to this? You know they were working the mosques hard to find rejects to do their dirty work.

I strongly believe this pastor is well within his right to burn a koran. I dont think it was the smartest move, as it was going to cause trouble, but he had every right to do so. How often are those, umm, cloth headgear wearing individuals burning our flag over there? You dont see anyone in this country burning down mosques or lynching muslims here over it. Heck, with only a few exceptions, there wasnt widespread violence against muslims here after 9/11. If the shoe had been on the other foot, every one of them would be flying planes into our buildings, or loading their taxis with bombs here.
Burn a book, burn a flag, does it hurt anyone? Nope. Is it disrespectful? To some, personally, if someone decides that is the way they want to lash out, I don't really give a shit, doesn't affect me. Some people take shit way too seriously, make a big deal out of it, and then the problems start. It is the people that retaliate or do something stupid to "get even" with the people burn the book, flag or whatever that are the problem. People just need to grow up and pull their heads out.

For the comment of "if the shoe had been on the other foot", if someone invaded America somehow and tried to do anything here for any reason, they would pay dearly. The ammount of bombings, killings, and other ruthless acts that americans would do to whatever country would be stupid enough to try such a thing, would be undescribable. We had a fleet destroyed I believe some time ago, and we went and did what? The shoe will never be on the other foot because all of the other nations know what we would do to them, not only by our military, but our citizens as well.

[bobbyfairbanks]

It is pretty clear under the first amendment. Burn what ever book you want. The shit fingers over there will never be understood by you till you have lived there and dealt with them. They truly are about a half century behind the western world. Take a vacation sometime to Kabul if you dont believe me.

[SA Friday]

Personally, I've found the Koran to be amazing kindling. Besides I can't read arabic.

[Scanker19]

Personally, I've found the Koran to be amazing kindling. Besides I can't read arabic.

Just get a translated one, like me. that way it will make them even madder.

[sniper7]

I can't wait for 2012.

yep, sounds like it will be the end no matter what. either the world will finally give it up, mother nature will take out her hot flashes and cracking skin to wipe us out, or obama will be re-elected. wow...just reading what I wrote is kind of depressing.

on a side note, I did read obama is expected to raise $1 billion for his campaign.[Bang]

[sniper7]

I wonder if back then they called it a Community Center. [Coffee]

yeah...and were obama's ancestors community organizers?

was acorn around...or was that just a nut that the little squirrel on 'Ice Age' was constantly hunting for![ROFL1]

[Mtn.man]

yep, sounds like it will be the end no matter what. either the world will finally give it up, mother nature will take out her hot flashes and cracking skin to wipe us out, or obama will be re-elected. wow...just reading what I wrote is kind of depressing.

on a side note, I did read obama is expected to raise $1 billion for his campaign.[Bang]


He printed it already.[ROFL1]

[Byte Stryke]

I take issue with this line of reasoning which I hear used all of the time to "justify" the violence of the Muslim faith as little more than retribution for Christian aggression over the years.

Yes, the Salem Witch Trials .....................


OK captain Tangent, not what I was saying at all, but nice history lesson none the less.

What I was trying to say is that not all Muslims are terrorists anymore than all Christians are crusaders or witch burners.
The extremists are dragging the rest into a bad light.
Just as not all Germans were Nazis, But as the Nazi's were German, this made all of them look bad.

:D


and on a side note, I would offer up that the reaction in Afghanistan and Pakistan makes Terry Jones look very correct in his assumptions.

[sniper7]

He printed it already.[ROFL1]

I wouldn't doubt it!

also just read he had a $30,800 dinner....that is per plate my friends. $1.5 million at 1 restaurant in NY in 1 night....WTF, over?

[Scanker19]

yep, sounds like it will be the end no matter what. either the world will finally give it up, mother nature will take out her hot flashes and cracking skin to wipe us out, or obama will be re-elected. wow...just reading what I wrote is kind of depressing.

Chances are it will end like this.

fBGGAjMg9vw

[Jumpstart]

Sure, burn it. Sometimes you have to send a message, to Muslims in the U.S. ......[M2]

[ghettodub]

yep, sounds like it will be the end no matter what. either the world will finally give it up, mother nature will take out her hot flashes and cracking skin to wipe us out, or obama will be re-elected. wow...just reading what I wrote is kind of depressing.

on a side note, I did read obama is expected to raise $1 billion for his campaign.[Bang]

I really don't think it'll make much of a difference if Obama gets voted out. We're f'd either way, and I think we would have been in roughly the same shape if Obama didn't win in 08...

[Zundfolge]

Excellent response to Dhimmi Lindsey Graham's asinine comments about the burning and his desire to do away with the first amendment.

Qeyrp-V3Jvc

[Bailey Guns]

She's got balls? Uhhhh...OK.

But DAYUM!!! You go, girlfriend. I'm in love with her. Balls or not.

[Irving]

I think she cheapened her argument by swearing so much, but I really can't disagree with the name calling.

I loved the Tombstone quote too. <3

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah, the swearing wasn't necessary. On the other hand, if you're calling Lindsey Graham a "jackass", it's OK in my book.

[alxone]

Excellent response to Dhimmi Lindsey Graham's asinine comments about the burning and his desire to do away with the first amendment.

Qeyrp-V3Jvc

she makes a few valid points but the name calling does not help her argument at all . also since when were we at war with the nation of Islam ??Dose she really think were at war with all Muslims ? if that were the case i think someone would have locked up Farrakhan by now , lol .

[CMP_5.56]

but the founding fathers set it up so that you could worship your religion without persecution from the government. since it had happened to them, they didn't want it happen to others here. they saw how religion only caused problems. was it john adams who said that they would not involve themselves with foreign matters regarding religion?

You are absolutely right, I was speaking of the puritains that came here to settle this as a colony. By the time our founding fathers declared us a free nation things had changed. Our founding fathers were desendents of the original puritian settlers.

[CMP_5.56]

Excellent response to Dhimmi Lindsey Graham's asinine comments about the burning and his desire to do away with the first amendment.

Qeyrp-V3Jvc

Hell yes! Point well made, and well thought out. As far as the name calling, nothing wrong eith calling a jackass a jackass IMHO.

On the other hand I think she may be in line to be my next future ex!

[Irving]

Only reason I brought up the swearing, was because I'd like to see her actually debate him. Fat chance now with all the light swearing.

[Bailey Guns]

You mean fat chance that Graham would ever step up to the plate knowing full well he'd take a blazing fastball right to the nards.

[Zundfolge]

You mean fat chance that Graham would ever step up to the plate knowing full well he'd take a blazing fastball right to the nards.
The flaw in your statement is that it assumes Ms. Lindsey HAS nards.

[Bailey Guns]

The flaw in your statement is that it assumes Ms. Lindsey HAS nards.

Was that a typo or a Freudian thing? [Beer]

[Zundfolge]

You don't honestly think Lindsey Graham is a man ... CLEARLY she's a woman in a suit.

[ERNO]

So this pastor, Terry Jones, blames the U.S. support for queers as God's punishment that result in our soldier's deaths in war.
Now, he burns the Qur'an in spite of dire warnings from Sec. Gates, that it would put our U.S. lead coalition in harm's way.

These vile actions by Jones, leads me to believe that I have a total lack of respect for him and his moribund religious movement.

To hell, with these Christian fanatics!!! And I tell them to "go jump in a lake."

Erno

[SA Friday]

So this pastor, Terry Jones, blames the U.S. support for queers as God's punishment that result in our soldier's deaths in war.
Now, he burns the Qur'an in spite of dire warnings from Sec. Gates, that it would put our U.S. lead coalition in harm's way.

These vile actions by Jones, leads me to believe that I have a total lack of respect for him and his moribund religious movement.

To hell, with these Christian fanatics!!! And I tell them to "go jump in a lake."

Erno

You are mixing up Phelps of Westborough Baptist Church in Kansas with Terry Jones, a pastor in FL. Two different people.

[sniper7]

You are mixing up Phelps of Westborough Baptist Church in Kansas with Terry Jones, a pastor in FL. Two different people.

Don't feed liberal trolls. They can't help but be dumb.

[Bailey Guns]

So this pastor, Terry Jones, blames the U.S. support for queers as God's punishment that result in our soldier's deaths in war.
Now, he burns the Qur'an in spite of dire warnings from Sec. Gates, that it would put our U.S. lead coalition in harm's way.

These vile actions by Jones, leads me to believe that I have a total lack of respect for him and his moribund religious movement.

To hell, with these Christian fanatics!!! And I tell them to "go jump in a lake."

Erno

Right on top of things as usual. [Bang]

[ChunkyMonkey]

Dose she really think were at war with all Muslims ? if that were the case i think someone would have locked up Farrakhan by now , lol .

Nope, but all Muslims are at war with all infidels. Yep, you, I and everyone that believe in freedom, equal rights, and so on.

[zteknik]

Nope, but all Muslims are at war with all infidels. Yep, you, I and everyone that believe in freedom, equal rights, and so on.
this explains the the goings on at the white house!!