Arsenal AK SGL21-66

[mrghost]

Took receipt of a new Arsenal AK SGL21-66 today, my first rifle in 7.62x39mm. Seems really well-built and fit and finish is good. It came with one 5 round mag (not sure if it's Tapco or what -- anyone know?) and I got one 30 round Circle 10 mag. The 5 round mag wiggles a bit but the Circle 10 is feels properly snug. Open to recommendations on good mags other than the Circle 10, as they're a bit pricey.

Looking forward to runnin' some rounds through it soon.

[mrghost]

Oh, also any recommendations for a good foregrip for the bottom rail.

Thanks!

[Great-Kazoo]

Took receipt of a new Arsenal AK SGL21-66 today, my first rifle in 7.62x39mm. Seems really well-built and fit and finish is good. It came with one 5 round mag (not sure if it's Tapco or what -- anyone know?) and I got one 30 round Circle 10 mag. The 5 round mag wiggles a bit but the Circle 10 is feels properly snug. Open to recommendations on good mags other than the Circle 10, as they're a bit pricey.

Looking forward to runnin' some rounds through it soon.

any standard AK-47 double stack mag will work. forget about a snug or tight fit with steel AK-47 mags, just not happening, consistently, across the board.

[micah360]

the 5 round mag that came with it should be a Circle 10 (Bulgarian made) waffle magazine too. Yes... the 30 rounders are pricey, but they are awesome mags (probably the best mags out there).

If you want cheap steel magazines, get these.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MAK47Bulg&name=Bulgarian+30rd+Steel+AK47+7.62x39+Magazine&groupid=15

And I don't know about a grip for the bottom. I keep my AKs pretty simple, and get all the complicated accessory crap for my AR. :)

[mrghost]

the 5 round mag that came with it should be a Circle 10 (Bulgarian made) waffle magazine too. Yes... the 30 rounders are pricey, but they are awesome mags (probably the best mags out there).

If you want cheap steel magazines, get these.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MAK47Bulg&name=Bulgarian+30rd+Steel+AK47+7.62x39+Magazine&groupid=15

And I don't know about a grip for the bottom. I keep my AKs pretty simple, and get all the complicated accessory crap for my AR. :)

I hear ya, the AK definitely feels at home "from the hip", however, my SGL21 has a quad-rail up front, so it's not the most comfortable to grip. I went ahead and ordered a shorty Tapco VG and will try that out.

Now I'm also looking for any recommendations on a solid scope mount, other than the pricey K-Var. I'm just going to put the Vortex red dot I already have on the mount.

Thanks for the link...that looks like a good deal.

On a funny side note, while checking out the rifle at home for the first time, as soon I attached the infamous 30 round mag, my wife says, "You're a terrorist now." :rolleyes:

[Great-Kazoo]

I hear ya, the AK definitely feels at home "from the hip", however, my SGL21 has a quad-rail up front, so it's not the most comfortable to grip. I went ahead and ordered a shorty Tapco VG and will try that out.

Now I'm also looking for any recommendations on a solid scope mount, other than the pricey K-Var. I'm just going to put the Vortex red dot I already have on the mount.

Thanks for the link...that looks like a good deal.

On a funny side note, while checking out the rifle at home for the first time, as soon I attached the infamous 30 round mag, my wife says, "You're a terrorist now." :rolleyes:

well if you do not like the quad rail i have a set of US K-var black synthetic hand guards i would done something with you trade wise for your rail

[mrghost]

well if you do not like the quad rail i have a set of US K-var black synthetic hand guards i would done something with you trade wise for your rail

heh, no I love the quad rail -- thanks for the offer tho.

[jreifsch80]

that 5 rounder is probaly an izzy russian mag since the sgl models are saigas from the izzy plant. does it have an ink inspection stamp on it that is a rectangle with a diagnol line through it? if so it's a russian izzy. as fa as mags some are better than others, i'm partial to hungarian, east german, and polish. i also like soviet mags but they're a little pricy to buy zillions of em. a wobbly mag is not a bad thing with ak's as long as it's only side to side wobble and not up and down of front to back wobble, side wobble was never a concern in the ak building community untill ar guys started getting more into building ak's ;) when i build my ak's i test fit all my mags and i set it up with a tiny bit of side wobble to make sure any mag will fit. chinese mags tend to fit a tiny bit looser than euro mags and stay away from cheap korean mags no matter how cheap you find them. with euro steel mags they practicly last forever, there is no such thing as wearing out an ak mags feed lips. i keep my ak mags loaded at all times and for extended periods, i have never had a problem with the springs. they are tanks and you pay for it in weight. by the way this all applies for steel and bake-lite mags, i have no idea on the durrability of polymer mags.

[micah360]

My SGL21 came with a Bulgarian 5 round waffle mag. The Russian magazine comes with the unconverted version of the Saiga rifle. The Russian magazine (it's a 10 rounder) will not feed (without modification) in the SGL21 because it's meant to be run in the unconverted Saiga. When Arsenal converts the rifle, they install a bullet guide to make them compatible with all AK-47 mags.

It's more than likely either one of these mags that came with your rifle:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17625&cat=419&page=1

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16136&cat=419&page=1

[jreifsch80]

My SGL21 came with a Bulgarian 5 round waffle mag. The Russian magazine comes with the unconverted version of the Saiga rifle. The Russian magazine (it's a 10 rounder) will not feed (without modification) in the SGL21 because it's meant to be run in the unconverted Saiga. When Arsenal converts the rifle, they install a bullet guide to make them compatible with all AK-47 mags.

It's more than likely either one of these mags that came with your rifle:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17625&cat=419&page=1

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16136&cat=419&page=1

you're totally right, i had a lapse in memory and forgot about saigas having specific mags due to not having a bullet guide in the trunnion.

[mrghost]

My SGL21 came with a Bulgarian 5 round waffle mag. The Russian magazine comes with the unconverted version of the Saiga rifle. The Russian magazine (it's a 10 rounder) will not feed (without modification) in the SGL21 because it's meant to be run in the unconverted Saiga. When Arsenal converts the rifle, they install a bullet guide to make them compatible with all AK-47 mags.

It's more than likely either one of these mags that came with your rifle:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17625&cat=419&page=1

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16136&cat=419&page=1

Looks like it would be the Bulgarian waffle-pattern mag shown in the second link. The 5-rounder just doesn't have any kind of brand markings on it. Both the 5 and 30 round Bulgarian mags do seem extremely well-made compared to some of the 5.56/223 mags I have, ie, the follower doesn't tilt and the spring seems heavier duty.

[mrghost]

Now I'm also looking for any recommendations on a solid scope mount, other than the pricey K-Var. I'm just going to put the Vortex red dot I already have on the mount.





Looks like I may have found something with Primary Arms, who has a good rep already:

http://primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=1255&categoryId=103

Looks solid and not the most expensive, nor the cheapest.

[jreifsch80]

here's a good selection

http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/mounts/ak-vepr-saiga-romak-1-2-slr.html

[cfortune]

Since these things come from the Izhmash factory, do they have the same mag issues as a Saiga would (interdiction tab & needing a bullet guide)? Or are those pests removed by Arsenal? I'm thinking about picking up a x39 in the near future and would prefer to make it another Saiga (I have a .223 and a .308 as of now). But if Arsenal is selling these things complete with these mods, I'd definitely pick one up if the price is right.

[mrghost]

Since these things come from the Izhmash factory, do they have the same mag issues as a Saiga would (interdiction tab & needing a bullet guide)? Or are those pests removed by Arsenal? I'm thinking about picking up a x39 in the near future and would prefer to make it another Saiga (I have a .223 and a .308 as of now). But if Arsenal is selling these things complete with these mods, I'd definitely pick one up if the price is right.

I wasn't aware of these issues, but a quick google search showed that this apparently is mostly an issue with the .223 Saigas, but I have no idea if there are any similar known issues for 7.62x39. Might want to contact Arsenal, K-Var, or New Frontier Armory to confirm.

[mrghost]

Tapco short vertical grip arrived today and so far I am not pleased. I'm still playing with positioning, but Tapco marketing and several user reviews here and there say it will not interfere with 30 round mag changes and I'm not finding that to be the case. There are some positions on the rail where it won't interfere if you *carefully* insert/detach the mag, but that's not exactly acceptable. I can position the grip all the way forward for the most clearance, but then the balance isn't good and my left arm will be fatigued faster. I should note I think the quality of the grip is fine though and the rubber storage compartment plug is very snug and seems like it would be pretty watertight.

I have a totally new appreciation for the efficiency AR-15 magazine wells :)

[jreifsch80]

Just grip the front of the mag for me that's very comfortable. With how curved akm mags are and how they rock in you can probably see why ak's with factory foward viticle grips have them raked forward. I personally have never been impressed by tapco products hence the nickname crapco

[mrghost]

Just grip the front of the mag for me that's very comfortable. With how curved akm mags are and how they rock in you can probably see why ak's with factory foward viticle grips have them raked forward. I personally have never been impressed by tapco products hence the nickname crapco

For me, the magazine is too far back for a comfortable, balanced grip and just plain feels wrong for aiming the weapon in a side-to-side fashion.

Played around with positioning the grip a bit more and I may have found an acceptable placement. It's just slightly forward of the optimal position, but not uncomfortable.

[mrghost]

Just grip the front of the mag for me that's very comfortable. With how curved akm mags are and how they rock in you can probably see why ak's with factory foward viticle grips have them raked forward. I personally have never been impressed by tapco products hence the nickname crapco

Any experience with the Magpul angled foregrip on your AK? I might want to test that out, too.

[jreifsch80]

Actually I agree I do like holding my mag on my 12.5 barreled ak (welded brake untill my paperwork gets back) but on a full length rifle it is a little too far back for a comfortable balance. I don't have a magpull angled grip but I am curious about them, if you get one let me know how you like it. Though I would like to just simply mount a rail on the bottom of one of my lower handguards and use a shorty grip and adjust it to angle slightly forward. Might seem odd at first but a forward angled fore grip is aclually very comfortable and makes it very easy to control an akm's muzzle climb

[mrghost]

Received and installed the Magpul AFG2 today.

Initial impressions:

So far so good. 30 round mag changes work well, even with it installed as far back on the bottom rail as it will go. Comfort and grip-wise it seems to be in an optimal position. I can actually get two comfortable hand positions out of it: the first being the intended position with all fingers arranged on the grip, with the finger nub between middle and ring fingers, or, further back a bit the pinky hanging below works as well. I'm thinking multiple comfortable positions is a *good* thing in a scenario where an individual will be spending a lot of time handling/firing the rifle and a change of grip can help relieve fatigue. Will see if my impressions change much when I get to actually fire the gun with it.

[lead_magnet]

any standard AK-47 double stack mag will work. forget about a snug or tight fit with steel AK-47 mags, just not happening, consistently, across the board.


not true, my full length AK has ZERO, and I mean zero wobble, either side to side or front to back. Steel, poly, doesn't matter, they don't move. My stubby (a cheap romo draco) has very slight amount of movement of the magazine, but its hard to tell its moving. A properly dimpeled receiver with a properly cut mag opening will not wobble. A WASR is a "nice" AK like a Honda Civic is a sports car.

[Great-Kazoo]

not true, my full length AK has ZERO, and I mean zero wobble, either side to side or front to back. Steel, poly, doesn't matter, they don't move. My stubby (a cheap romo draco) has very slight amount of movement of the magazine, but its hard to tell its moving. A properly dimpeled receiver with a properly cut mag opening will not wobble. A WASR is a "nice" AK like a Honda Civic is a sports car.

my Arsenal AK-106 has some mag wobble and it is no lower tier AK. my MAK-90 milled minimal wobble, but still some. AR guys who transition over to an AK get all antsy BECAUSE THE MAGS NEVER WOBBLE IN MY AR. great what ever works.

I do however have issues with my 106. sometimes when i shoot it the muzzle rises a tad and i get a shitload of blowback in my face. anyone ever experience this before? AND YES i was chicken winging it. the temp was somewhere in the F#$%^&*K it's cold catagory.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/51jim/run%20pc%20pics/HPIM1933.jpg

[jreifsch80]

ive heard from some guys that they will get pierced primers and get a decent amount of blow back from that, do you collect your brass jim? check your firing pin make sure it's domed with no sharp edges, nothing a jewlers file can't fix.

[Great-Kazoo]

ive heard from some guys that they will get pierced primers and get a decent amount of blow back from that, do you collect your brass jim? check your firing pin make sure it's domed with no sharp edges, nothing a jewlers file can't fix.

I've heard something similar Blow back wise after say 15-20 rounds i'm slammed with mega blow back. got to love safety glasses. however it's an AK and i'm shooting polymer coated steel cased shit. in the snow and cold i'm shooting not collecting. stop by and road test it sometime.

[68Charger]

not true, my full length AK has ZERO, and I mean zero wobble, either side to side or front to back. Steel, poly, doesn't matter, they don't move. My stubby (a cheap romo draco) has very slight amount of movement of the magazine, but its hard to tell its moving. A properly dimpeled receiver with a properly cut mag opening will not wobble. A WASR is a "nice" AK like a Honda Civic is a sports car.

One feature of the AK-Builder rails that come with their flats is the rail has a lower section that is too long, has to be trimmed. you trim it until your mags fit to your satisfaction...

it's all about the builder and their attention to detail...

[Great-Kazoo]

One feature of the AK-Builder rails that come with their flats is the rail has a lower section that is too long, has to be trimmed. you trim it until your mags fit to your satisfaction...

it's all about the builder and their attention to detail...

if we look at an AK that way my Arsenal and Norinco were build by less than qualified personnel.
On a home built Ak you can tailor the mag well to the mags. On a commercially mfg AK they allow room to accept a variety of magazines.

[jreifsch80]

if we look at an AK that way my Arsenal and Norinco were build by less than qualified personnel.
On a home built Ak you can tailor the mag well to the mags. On a commercially mfg AK they allow room to accept a variety of magazines.

your exactly right jim, one of my builds on an akbuilder flat i decided to make my mags all fit with no wobble just to see if it made it better. well my euro mags were nice and solid, my chinese mags were a hair loose and i couldn't fit my euro drum in. so i'll open it up and have a tiny bit of side to side wobble ;) one thing nice about side wobble is once you're used to the ak platform you can wobble the mag a tiny bit by rolling your gun and know by weight roughly how many rounds you have in your mags ;)


Jim, if i'm free sunday let's go out to pawnee, i'm curious about your blowback, plus i need an excuse to try out your 106 with it's can and we'll need to test run your new 7.62, i just need to form the rear trunnion rivets and the center support and it's done

[Great-Kazoo]

your exactly right jim, one of my builds on an akbuilder flat i decided to make my mags all fit with no wobble just to see if it made it better. well my euro mags were nice and solid, my chinese mags were a hair loose and i couldn't fit my euro drum in. so i'll open it up and have a tiny bit of side to side wobble ;) one thing nice about side wobble is once you're used to the ak platform you can wobble the mag a tiny bit by rolling your gun and know by weight roughly how many rounds you have in your mags ;)


Jim, if i'm free sunday let's go out to pawnee, i'm curious about your blowback, plus i need an excuse to try out your 106 with it's can and we'll need to test run your new 7.62, i just need to form the rear trunnion rivets and the center support and it's done

no problem. you really need to swing by and check out my latest score. think i located a norinco underfolder this morning:)

[jreifsch80]

sweet give me a call when you get back home and i'll come over

[mrghost]

Finally got to fire the SGL today. Decided to check out BlueCore at the same time -- only issue was I didn't know the pistol lanes there are only 15 yards, so that's all I got to test with. The good news is that I'm still very impressed with this rifle. Only shot 80 rounds but no FTF, FTE, or stovepipes. Recoil is not an issue. Used Winchester ammo plus a couple boxes I bought there because I thought I'd have to anyway, so I didn't take much with me.

Great rifle so far!