View Full Version : Detail strip prior to sale?
This is the second time this bullshit has occurred.
A couple years back one of my first deals involved selling a vintage M1 carbine to a guy who said he was a collector. He said he'd take it at my very fair asking price, but when we met he started hemming and hawing and said he wanted to field strip it first. Stupidly, I agreed to this, even though it had a very low round count and I'd never stripped it myself. After the basic strip, he takes out a fucking Leatherman and begins trying to disassemble the trigger group "to see if the numbers all match" and I stopped him right there. After he put it back together he stated he already had a dozen carbines and didn't really need another and tried to shortchange me a hundred bucks. Since then, I decided no-one takes apart my gun prior to a sale. He was clearly a scumbag thief and I believe he had no intention of putting that trigger group back together if I'd allowed him to take it apart. You can look it over all you want, but no field strip and certainly no detail strip.
Right now I have a match grade 1911 with a 2.5# trigger up for sale (currently SPF). Some clown with zero posts who recently joined offered me a decent trade deal for it. He was offering a bull barrel S&W 10-8 bull barrel in Excellent condition plus $500 cash. Only thing is, he wanted someone to "look at" the trigger first and said he also intended to detail strip the pistol. I told him no. Haven't heard back from him since.
Now, I don't think I'm being unreasonable at all. I present things as they are and like my deals to be simple and quick with minimal BS. I have never asked to strip down someone else's gun prior to purchase, and I'd expect they'd be plenty pissed off if I did, especially if no prior indication was given of my intention to do so and we'd both traveled a fair distance to meet up. Not gonna do it.
I am just wondering if anyone has ever tried pulling this BS on any of you, and under what circumstances it might be considered acceptable behavior on the part of a buyer to even request such a thing.
Zundfolge
04-07-2011, 16:08
Honestly if a buyer wants to do a simple field strip I can understand that because you can get a good idea of the wear on a used piece that way, but detail stripping is just dumb.
Even then I wouldn't let them do the field stripping, I would do it and then they could look at the parts and then I will reassemble it ... until the money is in my pocket I'm not letting you monkey with my gun.
To use cars as an analogy, I have no problem with someone looking under the hood ... checking the oil ... maybe even putting the car on a lift to get a look under it (I'd say that's about the same as field stripping). But if you want to pull the head off the motor you need to just go away.
Geology Rocks
04-07-2011, 16:10
No strip at all. If you want to check the guts I will do a basic strip and hand you 1 part at a time. Thats it...dont like it? Leave and dont buy my gun.
Joe
68Charger
04-07-2011, 16:17
It's your gun, until he buys it... your gun, your rules...
with a 1911, he can do a full function test without disassembling, he can test the weight of the trigger if he so desires... If I were selling it, I'd take the slide off the frame for him to allow inspection of some internal parts.
but a detail strip, better show me your gunsmith credentials, and I want a non-refundable deposit 1st. (at least not refunded if it doesn't go back the same exact condition it was before the detail strip).
StagLefty
04-07-2011, 16:19
No way !! If he wanted it that bad I'd tell him we could go to a gunsmith on his dime and have it inspected.
well I snap bought an M1 carbine at a gunshow that ended up having a severe defect. a problem that a field strip would have revealed.
also a few years back I came close to buying a RRA 1911 from a guy on glocktalk, I asked for and he supplied photos of the gun field stripped. He was very cool about it, and I thanked him. came close but I ended
up choosing to wait.
if I was selling a firearm, and the guy wanted to field strip the firearm I'd have no problem doing that for them while they watched or sending them photos.
detail strip? sure. just need to leave a small deposit to take it for a test drive.
"I'd like to rent your helicopter"
"I'm sorry, it's not for rent. Though it is for sale."
"How much?"
"Two million dollars"
"I'd like to take it for a test flight"
"Of course, you just need to leave a deposit"
"How much?"
"Two million dollars"
CrufflerSteve
04-07-2011, 16:54
If it's a sale I'd be willing to do a basic field strip myself. I'm not going to let someone I don't know do that. I'd also require that he tell me ahead of time so I can review how to do it. I've been selling guns I don't shoot so I'm rusty on how to take them apart.
If you do have a fair number of guns, those disassembly books are great, especially when I have to do something detailed. But back to the sale, detailed stripping is way, way out unless we're meeting at a gunsmith. The last thing I want to see is some small part flying away across a parking lot.
Steve
clublights
04-07-2011, 17:02
"I'd like to rent your helicopter"
"I'm sorry, it's not for rent. Though it is for sale."
"How much?"
"Two million dollars"
"I'd like to take it for a test flight"
"Of course, you just need to leave a deposit"
"How much?"
"Two million dollars"
ARGH!!! what movie is that from .. I'm gunna bash my head into the wall till I remember ! LOL
Ah found it .. Clear And Present Danger
Ok movie
AWESOME book .
I once bought a Browning Hi Power in near new condition. When I got it home I took off the slide and found some idiot etched his social security number on the slide and frame. I have found M1s with reweld signs, cobbled up internals etc.
I will often field strip a handgun or M1 to see if anyone has monkeyed with the gun. I ask the owner before if there is anything non factory done to the gun. I then say I will take at what ever price we agree upon so long as I can field strip the gun and see that is accurate. I never had anyone balk at that.
ARGH!!! what movie is that from .. I'm gunna bash my head into the wall till I remember ! LOL
Ah found it .. Clear And Present Danger
Ok movie
AWESOME book .
clear and present danger
secular error probability zero.
impact with high order detonation.
have a nice day.
oh you found it heh
Detail strip? N.O.N.B.F.N.
If they have questions about matching numbers, we can meet at a chosen gunsmith, where they can pay for disassembly/reassembly, REGARDLESS of whether the sale is completed.
Not really an issue for me, as none of my guns were collector pieces prior to the horrible boating accident.
I would be happy to field strip the weapon at the time if sale, if notified in advance, or if we were meeting at my shop, where I could clean off the desk for such an operation.
I have been bitten by not field stripping a gun before buying it, then later finding that it needs a hundred dollars worth of parts replaced due to being damaged or worn out.
Now I will not purchase a firearm that is not field stripped so I can inspect it first, even a new firearm. I just want to see the key components once its apart to validate its condition. I don't care if I field strip it or the seller does. Who does it really does not matter.
But a buyer demanding a detailed strip of the firearm before buying it is over the top though. If they are that worried about it then they should just go by a new firearm instead of something used.
To use cars as an analogy, I have no problem with someone looking under the hood ... checking the oil ... maybe even putting the car on a lift to get a look under it (I'd say that's about the same as field stripping). But if you want to pull the head off the motor you need to just go away.
My first thought. [HiFive]
I just don't understand some people. If I'm a collector and want a detailed accounting of a rifle, I'd request a competent gunsmith do the physical research. That would be for a rare expensive piece, not a common couple hundred dollar firearm. Then again, there are people in the sales section that I just don't do business with.
I've bought and sold on this forum and have had more trouble with buyers then sellers.
Caveat venditor
Byte Stryke
04-07-2011, 17:25
Detail strip? N.O.N.B.F.N.
If they have questions about matching numbers, we can meet at a chosen gunsmith, where they can pay for disassembly/reassembly, REGARDLESS of whether the sale is completed.
THIS^
If I am serious about purchasing a weapon, I want to be fair to BOTH Sides.
I wouldn't want some jackass tearing my gun apart and then balking but I also dont want to buy someones broken monkeyed up basement-smith crap either.
"hey, I have this Gunsmith I want to look it over, Meet me there with it, he checks it over at my cost regardless and we can go from there."
I Have had a guy selling a "New in Box" Back out on that.
I can only guess he was FOS or his shit was broken or not as nearly as new as advertised.
ronaldrwl
04-07-2011, 17:41
I have never asked but would ask the owner to do the take down.
Checking feedback has worked well for me. I appreciate the feedback you leave for one another because it makes it easier for me to decide who is worth dealing with and who should be avoided.
Communications is the key. I was born an annal retentive person and I am aware it can be annoying having everything I expect spelled out either on the phone or in an email prior to a meeting, but it helps me avoid any misunderstandings later on down the road.
Guns are mechanical items and through regular use, there are parts that will need to be repaired or replaced. If I am buying a used gun, I expect to pay for a used gun. If I want NIB, I buy from a reputable dealer.
All of my guns are shooters. I am not a collector. Nothing I buy will be NIB for very long after I own it. If someone is buying from me, I will tell them how long I've owned it and how much I've shot it. If anything has been repaired or replaced, I will tell them that as well. So far things have gone pretty well and I really enjoy every FTF purchase/sale I've done through this board. Guess I'm just lucky. [Pepsi]
Byte Stryke
04-07-2011, 17:54
Checking feedback has worked well for me. I appreciate the feedback you leave for one another because it makes it easier for me to decide who is worth dealing with and who should be avoided.
Communications is the key. I was born an annal retentive person and I am aware it can be annoying having everything I expect spelled out either on the phone or in an email prior to a meeting, but it helps me avoid any misunderstandings later on down the road.
Guns are mechanical items and through regular use, there are parts that will need to be repaired or replaced. If I am buying a used gun, I expect to pay for a used gun. If I want NIB, I buy from a reputable dealer.
All of my guns are shooters. I am not a collector. Nothing I buy will be NIB for very long after I own it. If someone is buying from me, I will tell them how long I've owned it and how much I've shot it. If anything has been repaired or replaced, I will tell them that as well. So far things have gone pretty well and I really enjoy every FTF purchase/sale I've done through this board. Guess I'm just lucky. [Pepsi]
Sadly Cstone, everyone else is not as honest as you.
There are some jackholes in this world that will try to cover slide marks and holster wear with a Magic marker. They will try to sell you a busted CZ because they dont want to pay for the parts/repairs. A Broken whatever lever/sear/pin is a reason to sell it to a sucker for $50 more than they retail new because they are including their sweaty supertuck knockoff and then buy a new one.
I Dont use a trip to the smith as a bartering agent, This station testing is Go/No-Go. If it's anything less than advertised its a No-Go.
You pay, I pay but its going to a smith before I Say "I'll take it."
BlasterBob
04-07-2011, 18:25
Once had a really nice Winchester Model 12 in 12 gauge. Got tired of it so got a table at a gun show and put her up for sale. Had a very decent price on it and had a lot of lookers but of course money was damn tight at that time. Had one "expert collector" extremely interested in the gun at my price. Said he'd take it if he could take it apart (didn't know if he was referring to like field stripping or detail). He got it broken down without any springs hitting the ceiling or pins rolling around on the floor. After reassembling it, said that it was a great gun, just what he was looking for but didn't have the money at the moment. He walked away quickly and shortly after, another fellow asked to check it over. In closely checking it, he indicated that there was a rather important piece (forget now just what it was) missing and the gun would not function without that missing piece. I knew that the "expert" swiped the missing piece because the Model 12 had been functioning perfectly for me prior to the gun show. NEVER AGAIN!! I have had people ask if they could strip certain guns and I have always told them, "sure, right after you pay for it and if there is something wrong with it, I'll refund your money". I hate thieves and liars. [Rant1]
Once had a really nice Winchester Model 12 in 12 gauge. Got tired of it so got a table at a gun show and put her up for sale. Had a very decent price on it and had a lot of lookers but of course money was damn tight at that time. Had one "expert collector" extremely interested in the gun at my price. Said he'd take it if he could take it apart (didn't know if he was referring to like field stripping or detail). He got it broken down without any springs hitting the ceiling or pins rolling around on the floor. After reassembling it, said that it was a great gun, just what he was looking for but didn't have the money at the moment. He walked away quickly and shortly after, another fellow asked to check it over. In closely checking it, he indicated that there was a rather important piece (forget now just what it was) missing and the gun would not function without that missing piece. I knew that the "expert" swiped the missing piece because the Model 12 had been functioning perfectly for me prior to the gun show. NEVER AGAIN!! I have had people ask if they could strip certain guns and I have always told them, "sure, right after you pay for it and if there is something wrong with it, I'll refund your money". I hate thieves and liars. [Rant1]
yup, the guy I bought the carbine from had me fill out my info on the receipt, then after I purchased it and discovered it was broken I checked the paperwork and lo and behold just my info was there.
he never filled out the rest.
and for the life of me I can't remember his name. but I remember his face and if I ever see him.....
hmm reminds me. I have to get some pics taken and see if BPtactical can do anything with it. (besides scrap it)
the other gun I bought at the same gun show was also a POS. no more gun shows for me.
Colorado Luckydog
04-07-2011, 22:04
I wonder if we have ran into the same guy. I've only had one person that wanted to disassemble a weapon before he bought it. It was an AR 15. I let him take it apart. After he inspected it, he said it was not really what he was looking for. I'm thinking WTF?? Taking it apart was not going to change what kind of firearm it was. Then he started in on if it was cheaper, maybe he would buy it. I could not get him out of my house fast enough. The AR he was looking at had less than 100 rounds through it. All of this was after a very adamant "I WILL TAKE IT". Not a "I will take it if you let me take it apart and come down on the price".
The one thing I will say about this site is, the guys here are a lot of good dudes and I have had very good luck both buying and selling.
BPTactical
04-07-2011, 22:20
A field strip/function check is a perfectly acceptable method of verifying condition prior to the firearm changing hands.
If you are the purchaser ask the seller to strip it, especially if you are not familiar with the correct takedown procedure.
If you are the seller DO NOT allow the purchaser to strip it. Offer to strip it.
A quick fieldstrip/function check is a good CYA for both of you. For the purchaser they get a bit of piece of mind that they are getting a serviceable firearm and the seller KNOWS the firearm left his hands in serviceable condition. It also leaves the seller with concrete proof incase the purchaser comes back a couple days later bitching that you sold them a lemon.
Here's an offer I will extend to COAR15 members-if both parties are members here and you want a prepurchase/presale inspection-the both of you come to my shop and add to the Pepsi fund and I will be happy to give it a once over and function check in the presence of both.
You will have to complete your transaction away from my premises but I will be glad to give a look for you.
I wonder if we have ran into the same guy. I've only had one person that wanted to disassemble a weapon before he bought it. It was an AR 15. I let him take it apart. After he inspected it, he said it was not really what he was looking for. I'm thinking WTF?? Taking it apart was not going to change what kind of firearm it was. Then he started in on if it was cheaper, maybe he would buy it. I could not get him out of my house fast enough. The AR he was looking at had less than 100 rounds through it. All of this was after a very adamant "I WILL TAKE IT". Not a "I will take it if you let me take it apart and come down on the price".
Original sale thread is here: http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21401
I think I had finally dropped the price to $600 in order to pay for the 1911 which I spent every dollar I had on just 20 minutes before meeting with this fuck. He replied to armslist ad, but later got a membership here and posted saying he wanted to buy other carbines as well. Older guy, 60s, heavy set, white hair, glasses, friends with the guy at the M1 carbine table near the front door at Tanner, drives a F-350, works at a plant near Tanner. Scumbag.
I'm typically not a haggler, and I've only got singed a couple of times. Paid way too much for a .38 snubbie because I didn't know any better, and bought a Jap Arisaka that had been sporterized and has a shot-out barrel that I shouldn't have bought. Oh well. But I'd never insist on somebody stripping a gun for sale. I do carry a little flashlight though, that comes in handy for peeking here and there.
I have had a couple of requests to take a couple of my sales items apart for inspection. The buyers asked nicely if I'd mind taking it apart. I will pop a slide off a pistol for someone, pull a bolt from a rifle, or something along those lines if it puts the buyers mind at ease.
Glocks and pistols of the like are fine with me but if it's a 1911 or something that takes a little practice to tear down, I'll hold the cash first - an idiot mark and you just bought it.
I believe that all potential buyers of any product that I have for sale must first, not mistrust me. Someone may have burned them in their past, but it wasn't me.
In return I will provide, as much truthful information as I have on the subject.
Or they can just go away.
I would take a questionable firearm to a smith myself and have it checked before putting it up for sale.
If a potential buyer doesn't like my terms. Oh Well.
No disassembly by a potential buyer.
I guess I'm in the vein of just ask as well. If a seller won't and you don't feel right about it walk away. However, don't just start ripping apart someone else's shit, not cool.
I wouldn't be too worried about much more than a quick look over for most of the established members here though. You've proven you are not here to just dump some guns + the feedback section for some of you is amazingly long, positive, and helpful if you haven't met the person before.
I have had a couple of requests to take a couple of my sales items apart for inspection. The buyers asked nicely if I'd mind taking it apart. I will pop a slide off a pistol for someone, pull a bolt from a rifle, or something along those lines if it puts the buyers mind at ease.
My problem is, due to my disabilities, I have a great deal of difficulty stripping down even the simplest of weapons, and I'm certainly not going to attempt it with no prior notice standing in some parking lot.
I've allowed people to take the slide off of pistols before if it was something like a Glock or a Makarov. That is no big deal for me. I've read the armorer's manual for the M1 carbine before and knew that you need special tools to break down the trigger group and there is no way I'd ever be able to put it back together. Same thing with an expert tuned match trigger on a 1911 -- I don't want some fumble fingers phucktard taking a perfect trigger apart for no possible reason other than they want to fuck me out of a hundred dollars or more on a pistol I've already priced two hundred less than it is worth. If you don't like the trigger pull you can have a smith install heavier springs.
the big red flag for me would be that said jackhole was about to try to disassemble the "collector" gun with a leatherman. That's like using a crescent wrench to "look" at a classic Porsche. [Rant1]
BlasterBob
04-08-2011, 18:27
an idiot mark and you just bought it.
Guess you are referring to the careless reinsertion of the slide stop on a 1911/1911A1 which can produce that damn unsightly scratch from just behind the trigger right up the frame. UGH.[Rant1]
BlasterBob
04-09-2011, 11:36
Ouch, am I guilty of killing another thread with my post yesterday?
SA Friday
04-09-2011, 12:17
A field strip/function check is a perfectly acceptable method of verifying condition prior to the firearm changing hands.
If you are the purchaser ask the seller to strip it, especially if you are not familiar with the correct takedown procedure.
If you are the seller DO NOT allow the purchaser to strip it. Offer to strip it.
A quick fieldstrip/function check is a good CYA for both of you. For the purchaser they get a bit of piece of mind that they are getting a serviceable firearm and the seller KNOWS the firearm left his hands in serviceable condition. It also leaves the seller with concrete proof incase the purchaser comes back a couple days later bitching that you sold them a lemon.
Here's an offer I will extend to COAR15 members-if both parties are members here and you want a prepurchase/presale inspection-the both of you come to my shop and add to the Pepsi fund and I will be happy to give it a once over and function check in the presence of both.
You will have to complete your transaction away from my premises but I will be glad to give a look for you.
^ This ^
I function check anything I buy. I allow function check on anything I sell. Quite frankly, if I can't dry fire it the seller is to stupid for me to buy from or the gun is a POS and I don't want it. If I have questions about the gun, I have requested field stripping to inspect the internals. If I dont have any questions from the function check, and the seller is trusted I have purchased without a field strip.
For me, it really depends on the type of gun as to just how much I look at before purchase. The only thing I give a crap about on a glock are the frame and slide. Nothing else is critical. A revolver, I check the cylinder to forcing cone gap, movement in the locked up cylinder, the crane and the barrel to frame assy, and basic trigger function. AR's, well I check more than a few things on them, but they are pretty easy to inspect for issues. I'm not pulling trigger Assy's or checking barrel nuts though... Something like the internals of an A5 shotgun, well, now you've hit 'crazy talk' levels.
I really do prefer to buy from people I know or from this site. I have a rifle with dead barrels on it from a gunshow 'learning experience' from years ago. Some day, it might get rebarreled.
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