View Full Version : Cops that do not know WTF they are talking about! - CLOSED
TriggerHappy
04-20-2011, 23:57
Now, don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for those of you that put your life on the line and are there to work for the community and are there for the right reasons. Both my parents were cops growing up, mom was patrol for 28 years and dad an LT and retired after 25. (maybe that is why I take sh*tty cops so personally, it makes the good ones look bad too).
But, damn you, when you want to pull me over and you don't even know your statutes and laws that "you" are pulling me over for. And if "i" wanted to shoot you with my CCW (that I just told you about) and showed you my permit (in the correct order) I wouldn't even tell you at all. DUH that is what "bad guys do" they hide shit and get you when you aren't expecting it. Its just a courtesy for me to say anything at all. Don't ask me "why?" I have a CCW..."cause I wanted one?... WTF!. "well just keep you hands where I can see them and we will be good, NO Sh*t, now that I told you all my secrets, what do I have to surprise you with??!?!?
So you pull me over for my window tint, yeah probably saw it coming some time ago. I do own a business that does that. "allegedly my windows due appear darker that legal". I do know all my laws and statutes that apply to unlawful window tinting, so I kind of feel like you should know those too and if you are going to lecture me on them, then do that correctly. Dont tell me that all the factory cars from dealerships here in colorado are "illegally"tinted, umm I dont think so (oh wait I read the law on that too...wierd..)
[Bang][Rant1]
[end rant] Thanks for listening.
so, what happened?
other than that.... no comment
TriggerHappy
04-21-2011, 00:15
Got a tint ticket, then told me to try and have a "better" night. The line in my head was "eat a d*ck!"
Yes more details. What did you do, and what did the officer do?
What was done with your weapon?
TriggerHappy
04-21-2011, 00:19
It was more of the officer Not knowing the actual laws, and just the condescending tone of why I would need a gun or want one..it was an attitude, I have nothing better to do kind of action. That is all. Could have been more friendly, you can still write a ticket and be nice.
flan7211
04-21-2011, 04:49
It is surprising the amount of police that don't know what to do with a CCW or weapons in the vehicle at all. When I used to deliver pizza's I had my sig in the car as usual and an AK that was in a case in the back. I got pulled over told the cop right off the bat and he about shat himself. I talked him through the slight panic like a husband with a delivering wife. He talked on the radio to another officer who made fun of him and he knew that I heard. He finally shrugged it off and acted cool about it, but it's scary he wasn't instilled with such knowledge.
Byte Stryke
04-21-2011, 06:11
you should have told him you carry a handgun because carrying a cop around would bankrupt you in doughnut costs within a week.
They Love it when you make Doughnut jokes.
"Sir, do you know why I pulled you over this morning?"
"Because you smelled the old Krispy Kreme bag in the trunk?"
[ROFL1]
Glock Shooter
04-21-2011, 06:34
Got a tint ticket, then told me to try and have a "better" night. The line in my head was "eat a d*ck!"
Did you ever mention during the stop that both of your parents had served for over 50 years in Law Enforcement or had it just gone wrong before you could even consider bringing it up?
Scanker19
04-21-2011, 06:42
So don't tell him aboutthe CCW unless he asks.
You? "Factory Tint"........Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
So don't tell him aboutthe CCW unless he asks.
99.9% of the time they already know.
Dispatch tells them
theGinsue
04-21-2011, 07:37
They Love it when you make Doughnut jokes.
"Sir, do you know why I pulled you over this morning?"
"Because you smelled the old Krispy Kreme bag in the trunk?"
[ROFL1]
Why does this comment bring about images of Rodney King in my head?
I tint ticket? Oh man, that’s lame…
I can see it now during role call.
Sergeant to officer #1- you are on speeding ticket detail.
Sergeant to officer #2- you are on a prostitution sting deatil.
Sergeant to officer #3- you are on window tint detail -bookem Danno
I wonder if you where an illegal if you would have gotten the ticket.
SuperiorDG
04-21-2011, 08:01
Just one of the many reason why you can't drive more then 1.4 miles without giving an officer reason to stop you. [Driver][PoPo]
Why does this comment bring about images of Rodney King in my head?
i was thinking more rodney dangerfield [ROFL1]
TEAMRICO
04-21-2011, 08:45
I got pulled over in Wyoming and the patrolman asked me about weapons because of the G-lock sticker on my window, we wound up talking about guns for a few minutes and thats when my wife found out I had a Springfield XD as well as a Glock! He was very professional and gave me a warning.
Molon_Labe-1775
04-21-2011, 08:56
Last year I got pulled over on I25 coming back from a shooting trip. I had 4 rifles in the back, 3 handguns in the back and 3 ammo cans worth of ammo.
I had a XDm 40 sitting in the front seat. State trooper pulls me over. I put both hands on the steering wheel so they were in pain sight.
He gets up to my vehicle and tells me I was speeding. I say ok and ask how fast I was going. He sees the pistol sitting in the front seat and ask me why its there. I explain to him that I was on my way home from shooting up in the hills and that I always carry a loaded firearm in my vehicle.
Here's the part that got me. He asked me if it was loaded. I said yes. He then asked me to hand it to him. Really? Why? To many reasons here to think that this would be a good idea... aren't you asking for trouble? Or at the very least looking for an accident to happen? Your telling me to pick up a loaded firearm in your presence? Your asking me to hand you a loaded firearm? And what reason would you ask me to do so?
Anyway... after talking to him for a second he asked me to move it from the seat and put it on the dash where he could see it [Tooth]
Still got a ticket.
gnihcraes
04-21-2011, 09:20
Most cop cars are tinted %20 or more, which is illegal I believe. (so I was told once)
ldmaster
04-21-2011, 09:35
Molon...
If he wanted to, you could have been prone out, cuffed and the like "for his safety". Wouldn't have gotten into trouble at all. There is no GOOD happy medium when you find out someone has a gun. Which would you rather have happened?
Fortunately, a window tint ticket is the LAST true "fixit ticket", no fine, just an inspection and you're done. A cop doesn't have to know the exact wording of any particular statute and have such committed to memory before contacting you. I found out, not the hard way, that just getting a matching tint for the factory tinting in your rear windows is too dark, essentially you can have all the windows nearly blacked out, as long as your front windows aren't tinted. This only really applies to the front windows of a car.
he saw the tinting, and felt it was unlawfully dark, he pulled you over, you got a ticket. If I see a car and the rear tinting appears to match the front, I now KNOW that the tinting will be too dark if the rear tinting is "factory". It's why factories do not apply tinting to the front windows - a dealer might, but not the factory. Seeing the matching tint is enough reasonable suspicion to pull you over and put the meter on your window.
People drive cars every day, but they don't understand the mechanics of an IC engine.
We shoot guns everyday, but I doubt there's more than a handful of us that understand how they regulate the gas expansion rates in gunpowders.
Unless you've done the job, even marrying a cop is not going to give you the kind of knowledge doing a job will, even Mom and Dad (always heros in a kid's eye) probably weren't without their faults on the job. We're human.
You got pissed off because you finally got your illegal tinting job caught, you KNEW it was illegal, but you did it anyway. So take the ticket and "have a better night"
You'll live.
As for how a cop SHOULD handle someone who admits he has a gun, geez, I'm hoping it gets better than has been illustrated here.
I never cared about permits, or why someone had a gun - and I never understood why a cop should give a damn about why a citizen has a gun, unless the citizen is half-naked, running down the alley screaming. I'd think that the greater insult was to the idea that a citizen ever has to GIVE a reason for exercising a right. But because we use a CCW system, we have willingly participated in allowing the government to "grant" us the "right" to defend ourselves.
It's why I tell folks to never volunteer that they have a gun, and to deflect questions about guns or contraband and try to get the cop to just get on with the business he pulled you over for. In this state it's not a requirement, and as seems to be illustrated here, it's patently a BAD idea to tell a cop you have a gun (with or without a permit).
permits can be forged. permits can be faked in order to lull a cop into a false sense of security. When doing a stop, all citizens are potentially violent - this isn't to say you treat someone harshly, it's to say that you can never ever let your guard down for a second, especially around people who are trying to reassure you that they're "safe". Finding a respectful balance where your language and actions are courteous and civil without endangering yourself is an art learned over a lifetime.
But this turned into another cop bashing, whining thread (sigh...) now I see what people meant.
CrufflerSteve
04-21-2011, 09:46
You should be able to beat this ticket. Definitely fight it if your tint is legal.
The cops do have access to the CCW records. I live in Douglas county and when given a speeding ticket, which I beat, the cop knew I had a permit but made no deal of it, just mentioned it.
Steve
But this turned into another cop bashing, whining thread (sigh...) now I see what people meant.
The crux of the issue with "cop bashing threads" is always three fold, IMHO:
A) You almost never deal with cops unless they're pulling you over. Ergo, it's never exactly under "happy" circumstances. Just like the proverb, "An unhappy customer will tell 8 people, a happy customer will tell 1"
B) Cops have to enforce stupid laws. Laws they themselves may not even agree with. They have had their ability to make judgment calls curtailed by requirements to enforce. Getting a couple hundred dollar ticket for doing something that's safe, but against the letter of the law, makes people feel justifiable in their anger.
C) Officers always deal with people at their worst... either committing a crime, or being pulled over. Going along with A, if everyone you worked with was pissed off all the time, you'd begin to get a pretty low opinion of everyone you pull over. This leads to bad stuff, like profiling and indifference, which compounds the problem
Almost all officers are good people most of the time. Those occasions when it's not the case take an otherwise normal reaction and turn it into a grade A turd-sandwich.
My $0.02... hopefully I don't have any cop interactions anytime soon.
[PoPo]
H.
ShooterJM
04-21-2011, 10:17
Seeing the matching tint is enough reasonable suspicion to pull you over and put the meter on your window.
So there are meters cops use to check tint levels? I've seen quite a few tickets written, but I've never seen a meter used. Is it just a color chart or does actually measure the amount of light transmission by clamping over the top of the window or something like that?
Just curious.
Molon...
It's why I tell folks to never volunteer that they have a gun, and to deflect questions about guns or contraband and try to get the cop to just get on with the business he pulled you over for. In this state it's not a requirement, and as seems to be illustrated here, it's patently a BAD idea to tell a cop you have a gun (with or without a permit).
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that my CHP (and attitude) got me out of a 6 point speeding ticket a couple of weeks ago. I wasn't carrying, but passed the officer my permit as a courtesy, so there would be no surprises when he ran my license. He asked if I was armed, I said no, and explained why I had shown my permit. He thanked me, and went back to his car. I fully expected a fat (and richly deserved) ticket. When he came back, he asked what I did for a living, gave me back my paperwork, and admonished me to slow down. I thanked him and wished him a good evening. In all, an entirely positive experience (aside from a few minutes on the side of I-70 with a police car parked behind me).
Molon_Labe-1775
04-21-2011, 12:04
Molon...
If he wanted to, you could have been prone out, cuffed and the like "for his safety". Wouldn't have gotten into trouble at all. There is no GOOD happy medium when you find out someone has a gun. Which would you rather have happened?
Fortunately, a window tint ticket is the LAST true "fixit ticket", no fine, just an inspection and you're done. A cop doesn't have to know the exact wording of any particular statute and have such committed to memory before contacting you. I found out, not the hard way, that just getting a matching tint for the factory tinting in your rear windows is too dark, essentially you can have all the windows nearly blacked out, as long as your front windows aren't tinted. This only really applies to the front windows of a car.
he saw the tinting, and felt it was unlawfully dark, he pulled you over, you got a ticket. If I see a car and the rear tinting appears to match the front, I now KNOW that the tinting will be too dark if the rear tinting is "factory". It's why factories do not apply tinting to the front windows - a dealer might, but not the factory. Seeing the matching tint is enough reasonable suspicion to pull you over and put the meter on your window.
People drive cars every day, but they don't understand the mechanics of an IC engine.
We shoot guns everyday, but I doubt there's more than a handful of us that understand how they regulate the gas expansion rates in gunpowders.
Unless you've done the job, even marrying a cop is not going to give you the kind of knowledge doing a job will, even Mom and Dad (always heros in a kid's eye) probably weren't without their faults on the job. We're human.
You got pissed off because you finally got your illegal tinting job caught, you KNEW it was illegal, but you did it anyway. So take the ticket and "have a better night"
You'll live.
As for how a cop SHOULD handle someone who admits he has a gun, geez, I'm hoping it gets better than has been illustrated here.
I never cared about permits, or why someone had a gun - and I never understood why a cop should give a damn about why a citizen has a gun, unless the citizen is half-naked, running down the alley screaming. I'd think that the greater insult was to the idea that a citizen ever has to GIVE a reason for exercising a right. But because we use a CCW system, we have willingly participated in allowing the government to "grant" us the "right" to defend ourselves.
It's why I tell folks to never volunteer that they have a gun, and to deflect questions about guns or contraband and try to get the cop to just get on with the business he pulled you over for. In this state it's not a requirement, and as seems to be illustrated here, it's patently a BAD idea to tell a cop you have a gun (with or without a permit).
permits can be forged. permits can be faked in order to lull a cop into a false sense of security. When doing a stop, all citizens are potentially violent - this isn't to say you treat someone harshly, it's to say that you can never ever let your guard down for a second, especially around people who are trying to reassure you that they're "safe". Finding a respectful balance where your language and actions are courteous and civil without endangering yourself is an art learned over a lifetime.
But this turned into another cop bashing, whining thread (sigh...) now I see what people meant.
I was not bashing the LE. I was speeding and I got a ticket. So what.
What I did find odd was that an officer would ask me to handle or pick up a loaded firearm when it was clearly safe in its current position. I respect all law enforcement officials, there's no way in hell I could do their job and work with the number of idiots they come across on a daily basis.
I have had other interactions with law enforcement in similar instances and all they ever did was ask about the reason for the forearm and left it at that. Just thought that this instance was odd as no other LE had asked me to handle the firearm.
I might also add that since living here in Colorado I have not had a single bad incident with any office of LE. They have all been very cool and polite... some to the point of going into long discussions about firearms, competition shooting and whatever.
DeusExMachina
04-21-2011, 12:14
This officer makes a very "chicken or the egg" problem. If I don't tell you about my CCW, and you find out, I'm going to be in trouble.
With this guy, if I tell you about my CCW, I'm going to be in trouble anyway. Can't win.
I want to just politely hand my CCW over with my license, but if he asks where my gun is, I'm going to tell him my right hip (right where my wallet was) and he's probably going to think "he just reached for where his gun is without telling me about it".
when pulled over carrying I always inform the officer.
if I'm not carrying I don't.
but if I were in a situation like molon labe 1775 described, there's no way I would come close to touching the firearm in the officer's presence.
patrick0685
04-21-2011, 12:41
So there are meters cops use to check tint levels? I've seen quite a few tickets written, but I've never seen a meter used. Is it just a color chart or does actually measure the amount of light transmission by clamping over the top of the window or something like that?
Just curious.
they have tint meters that clamp over the window
I think I should be allowed to pull people over and give them tickets..I'd go through a ticket book a day.. [Coffee]
When I get pulled over by the popo, I never say anything about my CCW. Never had a problem. I had to go on to Ft. Carson AFB last week to deliver an item and had to go thru the search area, never told the guards about my CCW and when they ran my info they saw I had a CCW. One called me into the gaurs shack to ask if I was carrying, I said no that I left it at home. Then he asked what I carried and then we BS'd about guns for a few minutes!! He said if I was carrying that I could leave it with him and pick it back up when I was leaving base.
jerrymrc
04-21-2011, 15:03
99.9% of the time they already know.
Dispatch tells them
El paso county does not put it in the database last I heard. Many counties do.
iirc the 'funding' for the database was cancelled. Big push for it was that it wasn't reliable. I think it was 2012 that it would stop.. something like that. Some of you with powerful google fu correct me or prove me right.
alan0269
04-21-2011, 20:35
you should have told him you carry a handgun because carrying a cop around would bankrupt you in doughnut costs within a week.
They Love it when you make Doughnut jokes.
"Sir, do you know why I pulled you over this morning?"
"Because you smelled the old Krispy Kreme bag in the trunk?"
[ROFL1]
This reminds me of Gabriel Iglesias - the best part of the video starts at about 1:20 into it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a77Dw3tNv8o
All windows (except windshield) may be tinted up to 30%. The rear windows can be tinted to whatever level you want (you can paint them if you want) as long as the front windows are at 100% (no tint). If your front windows are tinted at all, your rear windows can only be tinted up to 30%. That was the way the law was written last time I checked. Matching window tint is not an indication of illegal tint.
The officer should have gotten out the light meter and tested the window. Otherwise, he's writing tickets out of his ass.
All windows (except windshield) may be tinted up to 30%. The rear windows can be tinted to whatever level you want (you can paint them if you want) as long as the front windows are at 100% (no tint). If your front windows are tinted at all, your rear windows can only be tinted up to 30%. That was the way the law was written last time I checked. Matching window tint is not an indication of illegal tint.
The officer should have gotten out the light meter and tested the window. Otherwise, he's writing tickets out of his ass.
It's technically 27% which usually translates to 30% film on the window depending on the manufacturer, etc.[Beer]
But everything else is still correct right?
Man, I guess I live a boring life (no shit), I haven't been pulled over in years. Driving like a geezer has its bennies I reckon.
But everything else is still correct right?
Yep. [Beer]
Okay thanks. Glad that the law hasn't changed since the last time I checked. Otherwise I would have sounded dumb; for the first time in my whole life. ;)
I've heard stories of police handing a scraper to the vehicle owner on the side of the road with an order to remove tint on the spot or be arrested. (after the ticket was written, of course)
hey, they're just protectin' and servin'.
and why is tint so bad? well, because it prevents police from seeing inside the vehicle, making their job more dangerous.
eek! they could have dangerous pointy sticks in there and we'd never know until it was too late!
protectectin' and servin'...... themselves.
patrick0685
04-21-2011, 23:37
Okay thanks. Glad that the law hasn't changed since the last time I checked. Otherwise I would have sounded dumb; for the first time in my whole life. ;)
it happens to us all at one point...myself, I try to get it over with asap in the morning so im not waiting around all day for it to happen[ROFL1]
I've heard stories of police handing a scraper to the vehicle owner on the side of the road with an order to remove tint on the spot or be arrested. (after the ticket was written, of course)
hey, they're just protectin' and servin'.
and why is tint so bad? well, because it prevents police from seeing inside the vehicle, making their job more dangerous.
eek! they could have dangerous pointy sticks in there and we'd never know until it was too late!
protectectin' and servin'...... themselves.
piWCBOsJr-w
Byte Stryke
04-22-2011, 12:21
yeah, spending a few hundred bucks a unit for tint scanners and bitching about 3% light transmission when we have shit like MS-13 slinging in schools.
nooo, why would we think Cops were just revenue generators?
[ROFL1]
Geology Rocks
04-22-2011, 12:50
I've heard stories of police handing a scraper to the vehicle owner on the side of the road with an order to remove tint on the spot or be arrested. (after the ticket was written, of course)
hey, they're just protectin' and servin'.
and why is tint so bad? well, because it prevents police from seeing inside the vehicle, making their job more dangerous.
eek! they could have dangerous pointy sticks in there and we'd never know until it was too late!
protectectin' and servin'...... themselves.
Right...its all clear now. Its good to know how you feel and the other thread makes complete sense now.
yeah, spending a few hundred bucks a unit for tint scanners and bitching about 3% light transmission when we have shit like MS-13 slinging in schools.
nooo, why would we think Cops were just revenue generators?
[ROFL1]
Did you know that people tint windows so you cant see in so, sometimes, they can do illegal things and you wont know? Like say...drugs! Pulling someone over for illegal tint can lead to something else that is larger, like say....drugs?
Its amazing the hate some of you have for cops.
joe
No knock raids can lead to finding all kinds of illegal stuff too. So can water boarding.
Geology Rocks
04-22-2011, 12:57
No knock raids can lead to finding all kinds of illegal stuff too. So can water boarding.
i approve of this message
joe
Byte Stryke
04-22-2011, 13:05
Right...its all clear now. Its good to know how you feel and the other thread makes complete sense now.
Did you know that people tint windows so you cant see in so, sometimes, they can do illegal things and you wont know? Like say...drugs! Pulling someone over for illegal tint can lead to something else that is larger, like say....drugs?
Its amazing the hate some of you have for cops.
joe
No I hate the policies enforced by cops that have little to no logic beyond generating revenue.
and as far as your logic goes then you dont mind cops coming into your home whenever and looking around because you might be doing something illegal?
your "gateway" logic is a joke and lends itself to fear mongering and a police state.
ldmaster
04-22-2011, 13:09
Aftermarket films have ratings, the only problem is that interaction with existing glass will change that rating. All glass manufactured for motor vehicle use has some level of tinting. Buying and putting on a 27 percent film means that you've just combined your existing tint (sometimes at 70 percent) and you end up with a variable transmission rate usually around 21 percent. Reflective tint is outlawed, as well as amber or red tint. At no time may the front windows ever be below 27 percent. For people with allergies to sunlight, UV specific films that do not affect visible light transmission much, can be used. If you darken your rear windows below 27 percent, but your front windows must remain clear (which is around 70 percent VLT, but LOOKS clear to us). If your rear window is tinted below 27 percent, then you must also have dual exterior rear view mirrors.
The larger issue with tint isn't about cops being able to see you, it has to do with your peripheral vision and the ability to see cross traffic. At night especially you will NOT be able to see pedestrians coming into your path of travel, as well as bicycles and some vehicles with HID lighting that have very little spread outside of the beam will become almost invisible to you. It may seem that it's just cops wanting to eyeball you, but it's not - heavy tint makes you a dangerous driver. Peripheral vision is funny, and it's interactiong with low-light tranmitting films decreases your ability to recognize motion and discern shadows that would otherwise "catch your attention" while driving, and cause you to avoid an accident. Combine this with the habit that EVERYBODY has acquired, and your cellphone is to your ear and your attention is already divided. Congratulations idiot, your "right" to tint your windows combined with your "right" to talk on your cellphone while driving now has a greater chance of killing a child crossing the street. Everybody also believes that they are a "superior" driver, that their reactions and equipment are just about Nascar quality. Every younger male out there DOES believe that he's a much better driver than that old fart he just passed. Better drivers get better rates, males rates are always higher than females, but hey, women don't do the macho driver thing - do they? After a couple of decades of driving, you're going to realize that roads are uneven, and that you need a certain amount of time to brake to stop safely, so you slow down and stop tailgating. Every notice the ages of drivers that are involved in rear-end collisions on the freeway? There are other factors that contribute to this. But the whole point of things like tint laws is to add a few minor percentage points to your reaction time, to allow you better conditions under which to operate your car - simply because every little edge counts, and a miss by an inch in a collision is still a miss, even 1 foot closer on a sudden stop, and you've crunched something. The little things count.
Just remember, if you ever get tint done, you want to have the shop use a meter and SHOW you the VLT, if you can, get a printout of it (some have that) and keep it in your glovebox. Most shops that do tint will tell you that if you just "tint to match the rear" then you're safe. Nope. If you do that with a typical car, you will end up around 22. Since everybody wants their car to look uniform, almost everybody does this - and in good faith believe it to be lawful. If you ever get a chance and you have factory tinted rear windows, see if you can get a shop to put the meter on it - odds are it's lower than 27 percent.
Did you know that people tint windows so you cant see in so, sometimes, they can do illegal things and you wont know? Like say...drugs! Pulling someone over for illegal tint can lead to something else that is larger, like say....drugs?
Its amazing the hate some of you have for cops.
As Irving says, justifying one infraction as being reasonable because it can lead to finding other infractions is not acceptable. I'm sure driving around neighborhoods with thermal IR cameras, or getting a full audit log of everyones bank account, or pulling over ever car that's more than 5 years old could lead to an increase in arrests for other crimes... but that's not the world we want to live in.
It's not a hate of cops, it's a hate of cops enforcing laws that suck that I'm seeing here. There's a big difference between the two.
H.
Right...its all clear now. Its good to know how you feel and the other thread makes complete sense now.
Did you know that people tint windows so you cant see in so, sometimes, they can do illegal things and you wont know? Like say...drugs! Pulling someone over for illegal tint can lead to something else that is larger, like say....drugs?
Its amazing the hate some of you have for cops.
joe
so you think tint laws are there to help police look into cars to find drugs. okie dokie.
other thread? what are you talking about?
oh! the police dog thread. well, you feel that badged police dogs are real officers, and I disagreed. pretty simple if you ask me. we just have different points of view.
we each have reasons for feeling the way we do.
you have family members who are K9 handlers, so naturally you will be more inclined to have a positive outlook on police dogs.
I don't have family who are police officers, and I don't think dogs are cops. I feel there is a specific reason why police dogs are given badges and considered to be cops, which I gave in the other thread. (and I don't feel like I need to make the point again here)
It's not that I hate cops. I don't. (do I really need to make 'the speech' again?)
I don't hate anybody.
Personally, I think the religion of islam is complete BS. does that mean if a muslim guy's car breaks down on the side of the road that I'm not going to help him? or if a woman is wearing a hijab that I'm going to be mean to her? Hell no.
same principle with police. I don't see the officer in his uniform and think "&*#$& PIG". but I view a video of an officer hassling some guy for legally open carrying, spewing outright fallacies about the law and I think "what a douchebag"
if you think my point of view is flawed or wrong, then tell me why you think so and prove me wrong.
simply spouting "you just hate cops!" is complete weaksauce and just makes you look resentful for losing the previous argument.
Aftermarket films have ratings....
I snipped the bulk. Now this makes sense. Very good post, with good info. There is a real safety issue with window tint. That I can agree with.
but if someone were to try and argue that police NEVER used window tint as an excuse to pull someone over to either write a ticket or go fishing. well... I'd disagree.
As Irving says, justifying one infraction as being reasonable because it can lead to finding other infractions is not acceptable. I'm sure driving around neighborhoods with thermal IR cameras, or getting a full audit log of everyones bank account, or pulling over ever car that's more than 5 years old could lead to an increase in arrests for other crimes... but that's not the world we want to live in.
It's not a hate of cops, it's a hate of cops enforcing laws that suck that I'm seeing here. There's a big difference between the two.
H.
very well said Hoosier. [Awesom]
DD977GM2
04-22-2011, 14:26
So I get pulled over in north North Dakota a couple weeks ago. I was pulled over roughly 5 miles south of the Canadian border near the town of Bowbells. I was doing 10 over and due to my tires being a couple sizes to big, I had the speed set of cruise at around 67-68 and I was tagged at 75 in a 65. I know there is a factor for the actual speed being faster by 10% and it made sense.
First thing I did was have my hands at 10 & 2 and even tho my CCW wasnt on my side and under the console, within reach, I informed the Officer and asked him what he needed me to do. He was awesome about it and said go ahead and grab my wallet as it was on same side as CCW and couldnt have cared less that I had a pistol with me. I ended up getting a ticket, $20 and no points, no biggie and the Officer was cool and even asked what make and model and we breifly talked of duty guns and how the BP has a simular pistol as I do, I guess they do a lot of work hand in hand up there.
I have had great expereinces except one time in Bailey and it was the local Dog Catcher and was fearful since we were moving rifles, in their cases, to my truck so the kids could ride in the back of my buddies car when we met them in Bailey. Dog Catcher called the Highway Patrol and they talked to us and I even had my CCW open and carrying on a OWB holster and he appreciated that we where not hiding anything and understood we where just going to Hartsel for target practice and the Dog Catcher lady was from the East Coast or something and needs to learn that firearms are a part of almost everyones lives in the mountains of Colorado. The CHP Officers and I bullshitted about firearms for a minute and let us go without incident.
Ignorance is hilarious at times. There are plenty of good cops out there [Beer]
There are plenty of good cops out there
I'd say the vast majority of them are good the vast majority of the time. When they aren't, it leaves a much larger impression.
I got pulled over for speeding in a known speed trap once. I should have known better, but I was late to get where I was going. This cop was a pro, though, and had the ticket written in four minutes flat, and was courteous when I asked to see the speed gun and when he last calibrated it. I asked that when he handed me the ticket, and so I got out to show me the radar gun, he forgot to hand the citation back to me, but I'd already signed it. I realized this when I'd gotten a few blocks away, so I turned around and came back to find him. Sure enough he was on the same street, having just pulled over another car. I stopped well back, made sure my hands were visible, and he was getting out of his car to ticket the other guy. I shouted that I didn't get the ticket copy, so I'm walking half way to to his cruiser to get the ticket from him, and the guy he'd pulled over started trying to creep away... the cop turned and yelled something like, "You stop right there!" and the guy got back on his brakes. I laughed, got the citation and left.
I ended up writing a letter and sending it to him and his CO saying thanks for doing the job competently and not taking an hour to write a damn ticket.
H.
ldmaster
04-22-2011, 18:15
taught at most police academies called:
Pretextual Stops...
That is, on the pretext of enforcing one law, you use the opportunity to find other violations of the law.
Pull someone over for a tailight, run them for warrants, get a hit.
Pull someone over for a cracked windshield, see open alcohol containers, get a DUI arrest.
Pull someone over for failing to signal a lane change, when there were no other cars on the road. Find out there are 20 guys crammed into a van just off the border of Mexico.
Non-traffic pretextual stops, are pretty common too. Like seeing someone stagger down the street, and stopping to see what's going on. Or a person hustling down the street when a crowbar falls out of their jacket. Pretext stops have been used since police work began, it's nothing new, but when it comes to the last bastion of American freedom (the car) we get pretty sensitive about it.
Pretext is the art of investigation. You always need a reason to make a "stop", it doesn't have to be much of one. If nothing gets produced a good cop, does the warning, or asks for someone to fix something and sends them on their way - the chickenshit cop writes the ticket for the windshield, even though he's just learned the person lost their job and is about to get their heat turned just before christmas.
But in big cities, now, the younger cops especially are encouraged to write lots of violations. Even a bad taillight ticket that could be fixed by a .50 cent bulb is worth 70 bucks to the local jurisdiction.
And don't nobody go sayin' that it doesn't happen in MY city, it happens so often you'd be as jaded as I am about the matter.
Back in the late 90's I was in England. They had just started doing speed traps on the secondary feeder roads that link all of the villages and cities and townships. A study was done before/after and it was determined that zealous traffic control of the type they were doing, diminished the approval that the local populace had for the police as a whole. It was in the 90's and dropped to the 70's.
Did they do what american cities do? Nah - they STOPPED DOING SPEED TRAPS. It was more important to them to preserve the relationship that their police officers had with the citizens, than it was to generate revenue.
Don't know about now, but it's an attitude we should encourage in our local politics.
Byte Stryke
04-22-2011, 20:02
But in big cities, now, the younger cops especially are encouraged to write lots of violations. Even a bad taillight ticket that could be fixed by a .50 cent bulb is worth 70 bucks to the local jurisdiction.
This is the point I was making.
Instead of doing the fixit card (Do they even still have those?) a Large number of officers simply write the ticket out like a good little drone. A portion of those might even get off on it.
Now I know all about pretext stops, in most cases I agree with them.
When I have a problem with them is when they are used as an excuse to harass or intimidate otherwise law abiding citizens out of their rights.
"I Pulled ya over because you have a tail-light out, You have any Drugs or Guns in there?"
No Sir.
"Been Drinking Tonight?"
No Sir.
"Get out of the vehicle with your hands up we are searching the truck because I pulled you over for a broken taillight..."
Next thing you know you are face down, cuffed with your shit scattered all over the side of the road and a Cop making "odd hand gestures" to his partner.
Oh That's right, There are no Bad Cops that plant "Controlled Substances" in order to "Get a Bad Guy off of the street."
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cops+plants+drugs&aq=f
OneGuy67
04-22-2011, 21:38
Oh Byte, you and your YouTube videos. I wish you would find them that related to Colorado law enforcement. It is too easy to complain about some cop in podunk Georgia, who has an 8th grade education.
I've stayed out of this conversation on purpose. I've realized you all don't really want accurate law enforcement information or an explanation of the how and why law enforcement does what they do, you want to gripe and bitch.
So please, gripe and bitch away!
Oh come on. You know full well that we all want accurate cop info.
My best ticket was also one that took 5 minutes flat.
Oh come on. You know full well that we all want accurate cop info.
My best ticket was also one that took 5 minutes flat.
Practice produces the best results. No officer writes his first ten tickets that quickly. If you want the popo to be efficient and effective, you have to give them some experience.
No one wants to be the crash test dummy, but for those of us who spend time in vehicles, I'm glad they exist.
If you think many people dislike cops, ask yourself who polices the cops. Now you have an idea about who many of the cops dislike.
Unless you want to be Miss America, life isn't a popularity contest.
I got pulled over once as a kid. Two cops came to the door and asked what the hurry was. I told them I was late picking someone up at the airport. They went back to their car and just sat there. I sat in my car with the window, car off, freezing my ass off (I was too young to know any better) for over 30 minutes. Those assholes just hung out in the car the whole time. I watched them in my rear view mirror. I once got to write out a ticket on a ride along. It took me all of five minutes to figure it out myself. Those two cops were just assholes. Don't try and tell me that after 9 months of POST training, that a new cop is going to fumble though his first few tickets for that long. That's bullshit.
I'm not saying it takes a long time for anyone to write a ticket, but doing something in training is not the same as doing it on the street. The first few take a little longer because you want to make sure you dot all of the I's and don't get it tossed for some minor technicality.
Based on your description Irving, you are most likely correct in your impression that those cops were jerking you around. It has been known to happen and like any profession, there are good and bad. For cops, it is particularly bad when there are officers who make it harder for everyone, the public and other cops.
No excuses for bad cops. No excuses for stupid cops. I'd say the same thing for surgeons and baseball players. If you can't do the job competently and professionally, you are probably in the wrong line of work.
Anyone who has been a cop knows that some people will hate you as soon as they see the badge. It's just the way it is. It doesn't mean that you don't do your job, and often (like it or not) your job is what your supervisor tells you to do that day.
I like to think (tell me I'm naive) that the public gets the type of officer contact they ask for. If the cop walks up and the person behaves like an ass, they get treated that way. If the person behaves like a normal, decent human being, they should get treated that way. Most cops have wives/husbands, moms/dads, kids. It is best if they learn early to treat people how they would want another cop to treat their family. Sometimes it is hard to keep that in mind, but most of us try, most of the time.
That's most of the reason I was so pissed. I'm ALWAYS nice to cops. Always. I was only like 17 years old and was scared to death of these guys, yet they still dicked me around.
I don't really want to start a whole new thread for this video, but check out this out. These cops go to taser a guy, and the taser doesn't work, so he fakes it. heh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVoU_UXgQI&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsear ch_query%3Dbaseball%2Bfan%2Bgets%2Btasered%26aq%3D 6%26oq%3Dbaseball%2Bfan%2B&has_verified=1
theGinsue
04-22-2011, 22:55
I got pulled over in Wyoming and the patrolman asked me about weapons because of the G-lock sticker on my window, we wound up talking about guns for a few minutes and thats when my wife found out I had a Springfield XD as well as a Glock! He was very professional and gave me a warning.
What did your wife give you? A beating?
My fear is that I'll get pulled over with co-workers in the car and the cop will be on autopilot and loudly say, "Do you have your firearm on you right now?"
mcantar18c
04-22-2011, 23:07
My fear is that I'll get pulled over with co-workers in the car and the cop will be on autopilot and loudly say, "Do you have your firearm on you right now?"
What happens if your coworkers know you're carrying?
Pittsburgh is a tough town and any stadium/arena detail can be dicey. I'm not going to second guess either the cops or the guy they were arresting. I don't know what started the contact, so I couldn't say what type of force was appropriate.
When I was a kid growing up in Baltimore we all hated cops. Most of them were just a little sadistic. We used to laugh that when you run from the cops, you better out run them, because if you got caught, the ass whipping was automatic.
Now with cameras everywhere, things are somewhat better, although most of the video I've reviewed is like having an eyewitness walk in during the middle of a crime in progress. Your first impression is not always correct because you need to know what happened before the video started.
If you think a cop has treated you wrong, report it. Check the department's web site or stop in at a District and fill out the form. Sure, nothing will happen. But just maybe, your report will be the one that finally tips the scale and gets a bad officer off the job. If you don't report it, I can guarantee that nothing will happen except more of the same.
I had a supervisor who once called me in and asked me if I had contact with a citizen. I answered "yes." The supervisor then asked me if I said "so and so." I said "yes." The supervisor then told me that the citizen had made a complaint about me. The supervisor then asked me to explain the context from first contact and the actions I took and why. I did. The supervisor then told me to keep up the good work, the only way he could tell whether some officers were working was when he received complaints about them.
The bottom line is, no one likes getting pulled over. No one likes getting tickets. No one likes going to court (unless they are getting paid to go). Most cops know this and just get through the process as quickly as possible. Cops are often judged by how quickly and efficiently they can clear a stop. When cops are bored they either find a place to park or they go looking for something to do. Regardless of whether they park or police, some citizens will not be happy about their choice.
It's not my fault, but I'm sorry those cops jerked you around. They were probably bored and knew they could get away with jerking a young kid around. Its not right and I hope those cops grew up and found better things to do with their time.
You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do anything. The very first time I got pulled over was awesome. Best cop ever. I was doing 96 in a 55. He wrote 76 on the ticket and told me not to tell the judge how fast I was going. No shit, right? heh.
As a kid, I used to get pulled over and let go ALL the time. It wasn't until I was about 22 that I started getting a ticket every single time.
One time I fishtailed past a cop doing about 95 mph and he still let me go. In fact, pretty much all my contact with police officers has been positive, except that one time I told you about. I don't want you to get the wrong idea.
patrick0685
04-22-2011, 23:26
look what you started trigger[LOL]
Byte Stryke
04-23-2011, 09:24
Oh Byte, you and your YouTube videos. I wish you would find them that related to Colorado law enforcement. It is too easy to complain about some cop in podunk Georgia, who has an 8th grade education.
I've stayed out of this conversation on purpose. I've realized you all don't really want accurate law enforcement information or an explanation of the how and why law enforcement does what they do, you want to gripe and bitch.
So please, gripe and bitch away!
I do apologize, I didn't understand that corruption and bad training followed state boundaries
but yet again... they dont
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=denver+police+beating+corrupt +plant&aq=f
Now this doesn't make me a cop hater.
But it does make me stop in a higher traffic area, Better lit if at night, and Very much more skeptical and wary of officers. Not all of them are good guys, Like every traffic stop is not a bad guy.
If they are even actually police officers (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=Colorado+Police+impersonator&cp=28&qe=Q29sb3JhZG8gUG9saWNlIGltcGVyc29uYXRvcg&qesig=79SOfg17fv2XRLpaGpJinA&pkc=AFgZ2tnnXZ0jfmY-elAR_KAl7l9NEDTNjmJ3uV6F4amHFz8-rXwAeQ2YJM2FD47sEsK_iV9aHSaWRIYL8EBYMqDhIi1QBtcZIQ&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=Colorado+Police+impersonator&pbx=1&fp=1cf6fdffb580f619)
Ever been through Mayberry?
This made me thinking... And as it seems there are LE officers following, I need to ask :) Almost always while driving, I do not have a gun on my person but very nearby inside the car. I do not keep anything else where my gun is, just the gun + extra mag.
If I get pulled over and asked "are you carrying" or "do you have a gun on you" or "is your gun loaded", what is the right answer when gun is in the car with full mag but round not chambered ?
Maybe I am too honest or something, but if stopped I would like to inform the officer I have CHP and give it to him with my drivers license.
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