Sig classic or sig pro or just some other gun? [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

Delphi

05-21-2006, 02:00

I am looking for a good concealed carry gun, my father has a p228 and it's quite nice. I was thinking about getting one for myself, but i have heard some mixed reviews that the sig pro series is better and some that it's not.

In all honesty i cant really see the difference other than the price.... Anyone know?

And what about glocks, hk's? Are their compact versions as reliable and accurate as SIG's?

Now if possible try to be unbiased in answering these questions... i'm not looking for the ooo this gun is better just cause i think it looks cooler in the movies. :mrgreen: I have some money now, and am only gonna be able to dish out this amount for a pistol once in a long time. So i want to make the right choice :)

Also i would like to keep it at either 9mm or .40S&W nothing higher... not a fan of low-cap guns, I like the idea of having rounds just incase i dont hit the first few shots.

Thanks for the help guys.

BadShot

05-21-2006, 07:33

I've got a SIG 220.. so it's a .45 if you don't know the models. LOVE IT.. its not a CCW gun. I'm not a 9mm fan, so the 226's aren't going to be something I pick up... the 229.. that I will have, just not as a CCW.

Now Marpat has a Glock fetish and for the most part I'm not interested in Glocks. Well that was until he brought around the G30... which is a .45 sub-compact. Not only is it the right size for a CCW, it's .45 - read you won't need more than one or two hits to stop some-"thing". So lets just cut to the chase there... when I pick up a sub-compact, it will be the G30.

Now that you have my opinion - zero value for your personal choice of weapon - here are my considerations for a CCW.

Size
Reliability
Comfort
Capacity
Mag cost and availability

I really don't like the SIG's for CCW.. Most models are too large, even the compacts, in my opinion. If you haven't tried one of the sub-compact Glocks, you really should.

Some other folks here are big fans of the Kahr's too. Another sub-compact I'm looking at is the XD. Hope fully someone will pipe up about their experiences with those. You could also always post this in the CCW forum :)

7idl

05-21-2006, 08:24

... not a fan of low-cap guns, I like the idea of having rounds just incase i dont hit the first few shots....

learn to hit what you're aiming at. (practice practice)

you can always carry a spare mag if you feel you need more.

Colorado Osprey

05-21-2006, 08:28

Now that you have my opinion - zero value for your personal choice of weapon - here are my considerations for a CCW.

Size
Reliability
Comfort
Capacity
Mag cost and availability

Some other folks here are big fans of the Kahr's too....

Well stated
Here were my choices for CCW..omitting wheel guns..that I've carried
Backup---Sig 230....but a .380 w/ Cor-Bon's is almost a 9mm
CCW Glock 26, Kahr K9, Kahr K40, Springfield Champion, Taurus PT-22(very small), Beretta Tomcat and finally...drum roll please.......I opt to wear bulkier clothes now and carry a full size...Glock G20

Here's my reasoning...if I should be unfortunate enough to need a firearm to defend my life, a full size is what I train with most as well as being able to have quicker follow up shots and full house power loads of 10mm.

One other thought for a CCW piece...Night Sights
You can not always choose when you will need protection and it will be useless if you can't see your sights....my prefrence is Meprolite

Delphi

05-21-2006, 14:23

learn to hit what you're aiming at. (practice practice)

you can always carry a spare mag if you feel you need more.

I understand that argument, but i'm afraid that somtimes you dont have that luxury, in a firefight when somone is shooting back at you, your not going to have all that time to aim, since the time you spend exposed aiming, is time you spend exposed risking getting shot.... I can imagine that aiming and shooting in a real fire fight would be much harder than just shooting at a paper target that isnt shooting back... thats why i want 9mm or 40S&W... wouldnt go 45, just dont like having 6 rounds lol. Anyways if i use good 9mm ammo or 40S&W it'll stop em dead in they're tracks as well... I'm thinking Hydrashock +P+ would do the trick real nice.

Thanks for all your input guys, hrmm so how do those guns compare in accuracy, because i know my the P228 shoots about 1-2" groupings at bout 40-50 yards, and thats with my bad shooting lol. I need more practice... my dad manages to get 1" and somtimes under 1" groupings with it.

Also size... i'm a relativly big guy.... i would rather have somting that fits well in my large hands, the really compact ones feel like toys, and are way to small for me. The 228 is about right, not to small not to big... i cant immagine having to shoot a lil XD hehe. Although i was thinking of a compact glock... not an ultra compact just regular, one thats about the same size as a 228...

What do you guys think of those two guns? Also the Khar, never heard of that... hrmm i'll have to look into it.

Great-Kazoo

05-21-2006, 15:39

your not going to have all that time to aim

learn and practice point shooting. AND attend a few IDPA matches.
you'll practice shooting from cover as well as mag changes on the run.

Hoser

05-21-2006, 22:08

I understand that argument, but i'm afraid that somtimes you dont have that luxury, in a firefight when somone is shooting back at you, your not going to have all that time to aim, since the time you spend exposed aiming, is time you spend exposed risking getting shot.... I can imagine that aiming and shooting in a real fire fight would be much harder than just shooting at a paper target that isnt shooting back... thats why i want 9mm or 40S&W... wouldnt go 45, just dont like having 6 rounds lol. You have been in how many firefights now, or have you been reading gun magazines?

Every round you fire is a potential lawsuit. If you think you need a lot of ammo because you are planning on missing a few times, you dont need to be carrying a gun. Thats my never been in, or want to be in, a fire fight opinion.

Anyways if i use good 9mm ammo or 40S&W it'll stop em dead in they're tracks as well... I'm thinking Hydrashock +P+ would do the trick real nice. A pistol is not a rifle or a death-ray ninja laser. Dont think that +P+ means people just die instantly.

Delphi

05-22-2006, 00:18

No i have never been in a firefight, and yes i do read gun mags. In all honesty though in a firefight people that arent in it tend to run away. At that particular time survival kicks in.

In that situation i dont have time to think where all my rounds are going and if i miss... that happens i'm not super gunner, let the lawyers come, cause i would rather be a live man in a court than a dead one in a casket. So yes more rounds are better... :)

Well i think that +P+ would be much more effective in a 9mm weapon.... I cant say that it will kill them, but it will have a better chance of stopping them. Thats why i'm thinking about .40S&W that in +P+ would be really effective.... or so i'd immagine.

Thanks for the tips on pointing to shoot and reloading mags while on the move... i have never done this... i guess it's time to practice up on that.

The1andOnlyKC

05-22-2006, 06:05

Get some training and lots of it, reading gun mags, and internet posts is not even a good start to training.

7idl

05-23-2006, 21:45

BadShot

05-24-2006, 09:17

Dude, get over the Rambo mentality and..

+1 to what The1andOnlyKC and 7idl have said..

I could go on and on and on about the error of your ways in this thread, but have decided to remain constructive. You need to get more training and practice before you should consider CCW. Your current mind set (as demonstrated in this thread and others) is dangerous.

Don't rely exclusively on what you read in a gun rag or on the net. Go learn and be safe. I'd hate to see your face and the name(s) of your victims plastered all over the papers because you acted in real life like you're proposing here.

Gman

05-24-2006, 20:20

Is an errant shot that takes an innocent life something you want to live with? When you can hit COM at 7 yards without using the sights but by point shooting, you should be OK. Every shot you take you need to identify the target and what's behind it.

I carry a S&W 1911SC with night sights and a spare mag. 17 rounds of .45 is plenty for any scenario I can think of. The 1911 platform is slim, conceals well, and carries comfortably.
...but the single action is not for everyone. I carry it because I can put every shot on target with a cold gun.

Delphi

05-27-2006, 23:35

Delphi-

my 'challenge' to you:

don't buy any more firearms right now.

take what you have and find an IDPA, USPA or 3gun event near you and spend ..oh.. 6 months MINIMUM (At least 1x per month) learning the ropes (people there will be glad to show you (if you're willing to learn))

observe
listen
practice

I guarantee your outlook will change after all that.

Well all i have right now is an Ak and an AR and a couple bolt action guns, no pistols.... I think i probobly ought to get one... that was the whole reason for this post deciding what gun to get so i can get good practice with it before applying for concealed carry....

IDPA i will look into that... once i actually own a pistol of some sort. I do want to learn how to shoot accuratly with a pistol... just honestly have never been a big fan of .45 shot one quite a bit and didnt like it... biggest handgun caliber i like is .357mag and thats cause the revolver i used it with was huge... dunno why my freind has that clunkly thing anyways but it's fun :)

The ones that i have shot that i'm really comfortable with are 9mm and 40S&W.... so the question still stands which one do you think i should get? 40 S&W or 9mm i like the recoil on those vs the highger calibers....

Right now i'm thinking about a Compensated Glock...

The1andOnlyKC

05-28-2006, 13:44

The caliber choice is totally up to you. Do some research on the balistics of the ammo you want to use in the firearm you are looking at purchasing and go from there.

robsterclaw

05-31-2006, 01:08

I've been in 2, one-sided firefights in my life and you don't have time to do sh*t! In the first case I didn't even have time to run. In the second 1 I had time to stop and duck, but if he had better aim.....who knows. My uncle was a county sheriff for 40 years. The 2 things he always talked about was being the first cop at Buddy Hollies airplane wreck and the ONE time he was in a firefight. Lasted all of 3 seconds. Yes he killed the guy. First shot. He wouldn't have had time to unload a 17 round clip. He had time to draw his .357 and fire once. The bad guy fired twice if I remember correctly. Interesting side-note. Due to Iowa laws at the time, he had to cuff the dead guy, and place him in the back seat. :twisted:

My points being, he was a county sheriff, in the days when he was the law enforcement leader, and not a political hack. Responsible for taking upon himself the responsibility to apprehend the worst criminals in his county, and not put it on some rookie. And he only had 1 firefight in his whole life.

Second point is there isn't time to do much when someone shoots at you. You're better off ducking and trying to get your gun while trying to hide. My oh so important job that got me shot at twice? A damn janitor for Albertson's while in high school. They robbed us 1 night and shot me in the arm before we realized what was going on. I was shot with the 3rd shot they fired. The second time was chasing a shoplifter that was wanted for felony warrents. It was the 80's and I had long hair, and wore normal clothes so if they suspected someone of shoplifting, they sent me to follow them. Chasing this guy acrossed Academy he stopped aimed and fired four times. We were just able to duck by the time he fired his second shot.

You'd think because of that I'd already be carrying concealed, but the chances I'm going to get shot at again, is so slim, I haven't made it a priority. I took the class and even filled out the paperwork years ago, but just never bothered to follow through. Some day I will, mostly on principle, because it's my right to carry, but too many people want to carry because they think they're a badass because they carry a gun. I don't want to be one of those guys.

Delphi

05-31-2006, 01:37

well me i want to learn to carry cause i'm working my way through college, and i want to get practice with my gun before i turn 21.... Working through college i have crappy jobs, and currently am stuck as a cashier... i immagine 2 years from now that will still be the case untill i'm out of college(i'm going for a masters degree and have 5 years left, and two years before i can get a concealed carry permit)

Basically, bieng that i'm going to have 3 years where i can legally carry a gun to protect myself while working late night shifts as a cashier is kinda important to me... Sadly i'll have to go for two years without any protection what so ever.

So yes i think it is a possiblaty that i might get into a firefight considering that a 7/11 employee was shot and killed not too long ago. And thats why i want a good pistol and as much practice as i can get with it. I'm not one of those people that wants to be a "badass".

In general though i am very angry with my goverment telling me that at the age of 19 i can be forced to go die for my country(the draft which could be put into affect any time), but not be allowed to defend my self at that age.

robsterclaw

05-31-2006, 02:20

Ok I have 1 character question. Since almost every corporation has a no guns allowed at work policy, are you going to break that rule to carry? If the answers yes, then that shows your character. If the answers no, then there's not a big issue. Look into working delivering pizza's. I do that 6 hours a week, and if the 6 hours go well, I make on average 90 bucks for that 6 hours. And if I want to buy something or have extra money I can work more hours. Better pay, less risk. And yes, pizza companies have a no guns at work policy.

My real job is working for Pepsi, and I call on 7-11's, Loaf and Jugs, and such. I've heard of many that get robbed, and have only heard of 1 injury (in the springs) The clerk in Pueblo was stabbed and killed. I believe it was a Diamond Shamrock, but could be wrong. Diamond Shamrock has a no guns, and comply with the robber rule.

And the reason why the gov. let's 19 year olds fight and die for their country is they are in a supervised, regimented, disciplined unit. Where as many 19 year olds are too immature too be trusted with guns, and the responsiblities that go with carrying them. I can understand that law. Not allowing 19 year olds to have a beer is not understandable to me.

robsterclaw

05-31-2006, 02:33

Oh and don't believe the main stream media. The chances of a draft any time soon, is very very small. I have 17 and 16 year old sons, and them being drafted ranks behind drug use, girls, and um what I'm going to have for supper tomorrow as things I worry about. :cool:

Delphi

05-31-2006, 02:56

lol i know the draft is unlikley, just meh it's a possiblity, just like getting robbed is unlikley but the possibility exists.

Pizza delivery eh? hrmm thats an interesting one that i've never really thought of. I just kinda hate standing around at a cash register fighting not to fall asleep.

But thats off topic, currenty the company i'm with they have no such no gun policy, at least not that i've been able to find.
:mrgreen:

And i can understand that some 19 year olds arent mature enough for a concealed carry, but some 30 year olds arnt either. I say that their should be rigerous testing, and if you manage to pass that and the saftey test if your above the age of 18 you should be able to carry.

But even if a company wouldnt allow a gun, i would have to principally disagree with them, cause if their is a bad guy he will have a gun and he wont give a crap about company rules and regs. Unless somthing would ever happen no one would know, and if somthing did happen than it was a good action after all if that person broke company rules.

BadShot

05-31-2006, 11:21

Delphi, you officially scare me and I thank the gods you can't carry legally. Just be sure to let us know where you work so we can avoid it.

If you are really that concerned, go buy some IIa body armor and wear that to work.

Hoser

05-31-2006, 13:55

IDPA i will look into that... once i actually own a pistol of some sort. I do want to learn how to shoot accuratly with a pistol...
Untill you are 21, you MUST have a parent or a legal guardian with you at all times at any IDPA, IPSC, ect. And yes, we do check. You may not agree with that rule and feel like breaking it anyway. DONT. Get it? Rules are rules, laws are laws. You might not like them, but thats life.

Delphi

06-01-2006, 00:44

I'm not saying that i would feel like breaking any laws, and yes i know that i need somone over 21 to be with you at all times while shooting a pistol while under age. Not worth the risk if caught you can get in serious trouble with the law.

And why would i scare you? Because i think that if a company has that type of policy i wouldnt work for them nor respect them in any way? If they banned any employee from carrying?

BadShot

06-01-2006, 08:05

Your demonstrated "Rambo" mentality and several comments made in other post of yours in this thread and else where. I think you need to take a good long HARD look at what is truely involved in being a RESPONSIBLE gun owner and carrier.

Look, I don't know you through anything more than what you write here. I took some time to reread several of your posts from the last several months. I think you have amply demonstrated why 21 is the minimum age for hand gun ownership. I have grave concerns about some of your commentary in this thread. You've shown that you truely haven't given sufficient thought to what it really means to be carrying a weapon all of the time and that does indeed scare me.

I'm not saying you're a gang banger or other type of miscreant, you simply need more experience in life.

It's all fun and games until someone starts throwing bullets!

Delphi

06-01-2006, 17:49

My "rambo" mentality... Hrmm i dont really know what you mean by that... All i have said in this thread is that i do not respect installations that would not allow concealed carry, and probobly would never work for them.

I would appriciate it if you pointed out to me what you mean by my rambo mentality, a few quotes would be nice.(i really dont mean to come off as a rambo, if you knew me IRL you'd know that, but also if i do i'd like to change it, so thats why quotes would be usefull) I think that i know exactly what it takes to be responsible. I own weapons and when i'm on the range i think you'd see that i'm not some gun toting idiot.... i dont want to get shot and neither does anyone around me so you have to be carefull.

Just because i want to carry, and because i think that the age limit is bad, doesnt mean that i would break that law, nor does it mean that i would be a "rambo"

And giving thought to carrying a weapon all the time? Just make sure that it's on safe and you dont just pull it out for fun. It's a serious thing that can get you in allot of trouble if not handled correctly.

The1andOnlyKC

06-01-2006, 22:34

... not a fan of low-cap guns, I like the idea of having rounds just incase i dont hit the first few shots.

I understand that argument, but i'm afraid that somtimes you dont have that luxury, in a firefight when somone is shooting back at you, your not going to have all that time to aim, since the time you spend exposed aiming, is time you spend exposed risking getting shot.... I can imagine that aiming and shooting in a real fire fight would be much harder than just shooting at a paper target that isnt shooting back... thats why i want 9mm or 40S&W... wouldnt go 45, just dont like having 6 rounds lol. Anyways if i use good 9mm ammo or 40S&W it'll stop em dead in they're tracks as well... I'm thinking Hydrashock +P+ would do the trick real nice.

In that situation i dont have time to think where all my rounds are going and if i miss... that happens i'm not super gunner, let the lawyers come, cause i would rather be a live man in a court than a dead one in a casket. So yes more rounds are better...

In general though i am very angry with my goverment telling me that at the age of 19 i can be forced to go die for my country(the draft which could be put into affect any time), but not be allowed to defend my self at that age.

Thats just in this thread.

I can look in your others if you like.

Delphi

06-02-2006, 00:12

K i can see that some of those might sound slightly aggressive, but in all honesty the one where i was talking about +p+ ammo, well why not? The reason your carrying is so you can defend yourself.

And the reason i wanted more rounds is because i'm not a good shot with the pistol, with the rifle i can put everyone in the center... i have had far to little practice with the pistol, and i think that basically once i have the CCP i will be good enough to where i wont need a hi cap incase for some wierd reason i have to engage mutiple targets... very unlikley but you never know.

The lawyer thing... well lol :mrgreen: I do agree with the whole spray and pray thing not bieng a good idea, and i can see why. But their are unfortunate circimstances lets say you take aim and the person abruptly moves right when you pull the trigger?

And with the last quote, i still completly agree with it. I figure you should have every right at 18, drink, guns, drive w/e

Makes no sence to me to let a 16 year old drive and not let a 18 year old have a handgun. The 16 year old has a chance of killing people than 10 18 year olds with handguns. So yes i still agree with that. And i would like the driving age to be upped.

Plus i also believe in stronger gun control to an extent. But i'll explaine that in a different area so we can have some debate.

I can see why some of my statements might sound a little ramboish now, but mostly its because i just dont take the time to write them as thouroghly as i probobly should online, i gues i know what i'm trying to say it just doesnt come across right. The fact of the matter is that i'm a responsible adult with no infractions in any way, and should be allowed to defend my self that is all i am saying.

BadShot

06-02-2006, 09:12

" In all honesty though in a firefight people that arent in it tend to run away"

"In that situation i dont have time to think where all my rounds are going and if i miss... that happens i'm not super gunner"

"So yes i think it is a possiblaty that i might get into a firefight"

"And the reason i wanted more rounds is because i'm not a good shot with the pistol"
++++++++++++++

These are just a few that stand out to me. Look, I'm not meaning to be an ass to you, but you have to understand that on a site like this one, you really need to say what you mean and say it in an articulate and understandable fashion.

This site differs from most in that we're a small community that actually has the opportunity to spend time getting to know each other both online and face to face.

We're mostly a constructive group of folks but and you need to take this as my perspective at age 35, you're still very young and inexperienced. There is a TON left for you to experience and learn from. Hopefully being involved in a shooting incident won't be something you have to learn from like some of us have.

So when some people here grow concerned over what you have been saying, you need to (and I honestly believe you are which is a plus) take a step back and understand why some of us are reacting to your writings the way we are.

I think you've been given some really good advice in this thread. I do hope that you will take that advice and learn, learn, train train train train and learn some more.

Hopefully in the course of the next few years you'll learn more about why some of us are concerned. Why the majority of us agree with the handgun age requirement and then some.

Delphi

06-03-2006, 02:47

Thanks badshot, and i think i'm begining to understand what you guys mean, and i do need to express myself more clearly.

I definatly will get lotsa practice with the pistol i will be getting, whichever one i choose, and i will show up to some of those matches to see how you guys do stuff.

I dont want to carry just to look cooler or anything like that, it's just that i believe strongly in defending myself and that their are lots of idiots out they're that would kill for 20$.

Thanks for all the information guys i do appriciate it and i do hope i have not rubbed off the wrong impression. I am somone open to learning since thats somthing that one should never be done with.

BadShot

06-03-2006, 07:33

Actually Delphi, you've impressed me in the way you've handled the criticism in the latter half of this. I know I've been a bit rough in my answers, but I do like to give credit where credit is due.

You'll love IPSEC and those types of events. And some one correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't an event member act as a Guardian or sponsor if Delphi's folks agree? Or is there any facility for that with these competitions and groups?