View Full Version : EMP proof car
mcantar18c
05-08-2011, 15:22
I've just finished One Second After and almost finished Lights Out, and this is the most pressing thing on my mind (an EMP attack). Yeah I'm probably just paranoid like those people that can't sleep after watching a horror film, but still.
I'm thinking about how to EMP-proof my truck, a 95 Powerstroke. My understanding is that something called a Faraday cage would protect electronic equipment, and all is is a case made of conductive mesh material (like expanded steel?) that would absorb and disperse the electromagnetic wave and protect whatever's inside it... correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm also under the impression that its stuff like circuit boards and such — computers, high-tech flashlights with different settings and whatnot, etc. — that are effected by EMPs, not things like conventional flashlights that are just simple wires... again, correct me if I'm wrong.
I have a large amount of expanded steel mesh in the garage... if I were to fabricate a box from the expanded steel to fit over my truck's computer, with insulation between it and the computer itself, would that effectively EMP-proof the vehicle?
ChunkyMonkey
05-08-2011, 16:13
I have a large amount of expanded steel mesh in the garage... if I were to fabricate a box from the expanded steel to fit over my truck's computer, with insulation between it and the computer itself, would that effectively EMP-proof the vehicle?
On your truck, it'd be easier to pull another CPU and fuse box from a junk yard, and insulate them in a grounded ammo box. Pre OBD II typically does not have enough sensors other than the CPU and fuse box that'd be fried in an EMP attack.
I don't think there is any worry of an emp attack. I would be more worried of a country being smart enough to do something that would affect our economy and sending us into the hole. If everything fell apart, we would very open to attack as chaos swept across the country. Of course, still, the general force of the Unites States (citizens with guns) would prevent a country from trying to enter anyway.
On your truck, it'd be easier to pull another CPU and fuse box from a junk yard, and insulate them in a grounded ammo box. Pre OBD II typically does not have enough sensors other than the CPU and fuse box that'd be fried in an EMP attack.
^^^what he said keep a second cpu ready and practice swapping it out.
^^^what he said keep a second cpu ready and practice swapping it out.
There are a lot more parts to replace then that in any newer car that would be shorted out to get it to run. You would have better luck and spend a lot less money lining the inside body pannels of your truck then buying al of the other parts.
There are a lot more parts to replace then that in any newer car that would be shorted out to get it to run. You would have better luck and spend a lot less money lining the inside body pannels of your truck then buying al of the other parts.
OBD II came out in 1996 which is why I have never owned anything newer then that. if something does happen EMP related. I figure that I will have to swap out the ECM and maybe a starter and alternator they both have diodes that are easily destroyed. I am currently driving a 1991 jimmy (Well maybe not after tomorrow[Swim]) and the only spare electrical parts I have yet to aquire is the digital dash because they are spendy.
I wonder if having a ground wire attached to the earth would help if the vehicle was parked when something went down would help??
/tinfoil hat adjustment complete
Scanker19
05-08-2011, 18:49
I think an EMP already hit Colorado, but it only affected the Turn Signal board in people's cars.
jerrymrc
05-08-2011, 20:21
I think an EMP already hit Colorado, but it only affected the Turn Signal board in people's cars.
Now that is funny. I do have to say that on post it only seemed to affect the cars with plates from LA, NY, TX and AK. [Beer]
Some things on EMP IMO. Cars and light trucks were affected by OBDII in 96. One glaring omission are the 96-98.5 dodge 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. You may lose your dash and whatnot's but with a manual they will run without batteries with a fuel bypass on the stop/run solenoid.
On a GM many up through 80-82 were still all mechanical except for the module in the HEI. It is still not known how big an EMP would have to be to take these out since they are pretty robust compared to what many "experts" talk about an EMP strike taking out. I think that many IC's would fair just fine.
The more modern microcircuits and there related components will have an issue. The typical 60's-70's transistor radio may be just fine but once you start adding the components that are actually CPU's then all bets are off. What I am trying to say is that just because it has a black chip on the board does not mean that an EMP strike will take it out.
A diode is nothing more than a one way valve and as large as the ones in an alternator are It is unlikely to be killed in a strike. As we have progressed our electronics
Have got smaller. with the miniaturization came a decrease in current. The smaller you make it the less current a given circuit is able to handle. EMP is all about current (amps) to overload a given circuit and kill it.
The Russians used tubes to negate this problem in there aircraft. Many of the early semiconductors had the same current capability of tubes and circuits were of the tube "topology" in there design and application.
Many other things go into a vulnerability from EMP. In final thoughts. Is EMP real? yes. Do we know what will or will not be compromised in an EMP strike? no. will everything that plugs into the wall be destroyed? no. Will things that are computerized be the first to go? IMO, yes.
Just some thoughts.[Coffee]
Now that is funny. I do have to say that on post it only seemed to affect the cars with plates from LA, NY, TX and AK. [Beer]
Some things on EMP IMO. Cars and light trucks were affected by OBDII in 96. One glaring omission are the 96-98.5 dodge 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. You may lose your dash and whatnot's but with a manual they will run without batteries with a fuel bypass on the stop/run solenoid.
On a GM many up through 80-82 were still all mechanical except for the module in the HEI. It is still not known how big an EMP would have to be to take these out since they are pretty robust compared to what many "experts" talk about an EMP strike taking out. I think that many IC's would fair just fine.
The more modern microcircuits and there related components will have an issue. The typical 60's-70's transistor radio may be just fine but once you start adding the components that are actually CPU's then all bets are off. What I am trying to say is that just because it has a black chip on the board does not mean that an EMP strike will take it out.
A diode is nothing more than a one way valve and as large as the ones in an alternator are It is unlikely to be killed in a strike. As we have progressed our electronics
Have got smaller. with the miniaturization came a decrease in current. The smaller you make it the less current a given circuit is able to handle. EMP is all about current (amps) to overload a given circuit and kill it.
The Russians used tubes to negate this problem in there aircraft. Many of the early semiconductors had the same current capability of tubes and circuits were of the tube "topology" in there design and application.
Many other things go into a vulnerability from EMP. In final thoughts. Is EMP real? yes. Do we know what will or will not be compromised in an EMP strike? no. will everything that plugs into the wall be destroyed? no. Will things that are computerized be the first to go? IMO, yes.
Just some thoughts.[Coffee]
Diodes are more fragile than I would have thought based on experience. happened this week actually. Had a 2004 Peterbilt that the fan would only work on high so that means that the resistor block is junk usually. He just had this replaced a week ago. on Paccar trucks up to 2008 the resistor block to control fan speed is simply coiled wires of varying diameter to reduce current thru heat thus it reduces speed. they halso have a beefy diode that is rated to 20 amps. turns out the blower fan was slightly out of balance and the brand new motor was drawing to much amperage from the block on the speed controlled setting and fried the diode. threw a new block and squirrel cage in it and am hoping for the best.
I think an EMP already hit Colorado, but it only affected the Turn Signal board in people's cars.
No Shit. [Beer]
theskalickys
05-08-2011, 22:14
yeah, I've never seen so many people not use their blinkers in my life! I've heard a lot of EMP talk and I don't know if thick metal would really do the trick.Your best bet would probably be to have a second car that doesn't have much for electronics. Make sure it's a manual so you can push start it.
ChunkyMonkey
05-09-2011, 00:23
As i posted on a vintage car thread on the GD...
http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd182316/1959.jpg
In case my 2005 one goes down in EMP attack, I'll be riding in the original S class. [Coffee]
theskalickys
05-09-2011, 09:27
That would be definitely one of the classier cars you would see on the road.
Byte Stryke
05-09-2011, 09:48
"EMP Proof" Car
http://daddytypes.com/archive/eek_skelter_pedal_car.jpg
SA Friday
05-09-2011, 09:55
You have to understand just boxing computers and other microchip boards in a vehicle won't really work. The farady cage is going to stop the impulse from directly impacting the microchips, but any wiring into the board is going to act like an antenna and channel the emp from outside the cage to the board and fry stuff. Essentially, unless all wires entering and exiting a cage are set up to stop the influx of energy, the cage is putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.
If you garage your vehicle, the best thing to do is turn the garage into your controlling system. Cage the garage. Only problem with this is figuring out how to ground the cage. The ground has to be corrctly done or it will fail. Some of the tests on this concept that I've read point some amount of protection even if done without grounding.
SA Friday
05-09-2011, 10:02
BTW, this event can and has happened naturally. Solar storms with enough intensity can cause the same effect. Radioactivity drives electrons off of oxygen and nitrogen atoms in the atmosphere and accelerate them towards the planet. This causes a focused microwave burst, EMP. The solar storm just has to be big enough to overcome the magnetic forces exerted from the earth to cause this or we just see aurora borialis (sp).
EMPs damage most electronics through induced currents, which are created by a change in magnetic flux affecting wiring (much like the coils in a generator passing through magnetic fields). The more wire you have, the greater potential current you generate. A Faraday Cage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage) would reduce or prevent damage to electronics by disrupting or redirecting the lines of magnetic flux. Most military hardware that is "hardened" uses some sort of metal braided covering (grounded) over the wiring to simulate the effects of a Faraday cage, plus surge suppressors and encapsulated electronics to reduce the potential for damaging current/voltages.
Pretty sure my 70 Powerwagon will still run, as it's on points, carbed, and I have spares for everything. The only issue would be the 60 gallons of fuel necessary to go 150 miles.... [Rant1]
Rust_shackleford
05-09-2011, 13:38
Got my 72 Chey camper with a 402 EMP proof ready to bail out.
divideman
05-09-2011, 14:11
Check out Rushauto.com for back up starter and ignition control module. Good luck prepping!
Colorado Osprey
05-09-2011, 16:41
I've just finished One Second After and almost finished Lights Out, and this is the most pressing thing on my mind (an EMP attack). Yeah I'm probably just paranoid like those people that can't sleep after watching a horror film, but still.
I'm thinking about how to EMP-proof my truck, a 95 Powerstroke. My understanding is that something called a Faraday cage would protect electronic equipment, and all is is a case made of conductive mesh material (like expanded steel?) that would absorb and disperse the electromagnetic wave and protect whatever's inside it... correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm also under the impression that its stuff like circuit boards and such — computers, high-tech flashlights with different settings and whatnot, etc. — that are effected by EMPs, not things like conventional flashlights that are just simple wires... again, correct me if I'm wrong.
I have a large amount of expanded steel mesh in the garage... if I were to fabricate a box from the expanded steel to fit over my truck's computer, with insulation between it and the computer itself, would that effectively EMP-proof the vehicle?
Your 90 anything will not be EMP proof... too many electronics.
A Faraday Cage must be solid conductor or have holes smaller than the frequency of the impulse/discharge it is trying to protect you from. For and EMP solid is best as the range of frequencies are very wide ranging. Expanded steel will do nothing to protect you in an EMP.
Think pre-1978, pre-emmissions, pre-electronic anything.
Even if you get a pre-everything vehicle you can still melt a point condenser, short and alternator and/or starter. Sending units can/will also be effected like fuel guage, temp, etc.
http://www.studegarage.com/images/Larz04/stanley_1909.jpg
or
http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/greeks/religion/pictures/horse.jpg
or
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml05/05592b.jpg
Kinda serious about the bike in the SHTF situation.
gcrookston
05-09-2011, 17:48
You can always buy this from me... 1974....
I guarantee it will survive an EMP or Zombie attack or your money back!
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/DSC00280.jpg
You can always buy this from me... 1974....
I guarantee it will survive an EMP or Zombie attack or your money back!
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/DSC00280.jpg
How much you want for it? A couple MP5's?
patrick0685
05-09-2011, 18:20
How much you want for it? A couple MP5's?
sounds good to me...ill drive it till you get over here[Beer]
gcrookston
05-09-2011, 18:34
sounds good to me...ill drive it till you get over here[Beer]
... now if I can only find the keys...
sounds good to me...ill drive it till you get over here[Beer]
You just take good care of it, remember, I am bringing over a couple MP5's... [ROFL1]
I have been researching Faraday cages and foudn out that every single one of us most likely already have one or maybe even 2 in our house...
Microwaves! they use them to keep that magical stuff that heats up our hot pockets safely contained inside the enclosure.
I wonder if this could be used to keep car electronics safe?
I have been researching Faraday cages and foudn out that every single one of us most likely already have one or maybe even 2 in our house...
Microwaves! they use them to keep that magical stuff that heats up our hot pockets safely contained inside the enclosure.
I wonder if this could be used to keep car electronics safe?
Here, this is a good read with some info for you with lots of sources.
http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/emp_and_faraday_cages.htm
jerrymrc
05-10-2011, 20:41
Here, this is a good read with some info for you with lots of sources.
http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/emp_and_faraday_cages.htm
I think that it has been about 7 years since I saw that link but good on ya for bringing it up. For my little stuff I used 40mm ammo cans with foam insulation and then grounded the can. just a power cord with only the ground attached is how I have done it.
I do plan on a larger box in the near future but the ammo cans have the important stuff in them. I think the ideal large storage solution is a properly grounded aluminum shed but I myself do not need that much.
Now I have a feeling that large steel buildings may escape the rath of an EMP strike. Many have no windows at all and are grounded for lightning.
Depending on the situation many items in campers may make it as well IMO.I know enough about electricity, RF, MW, X-rays and such that it is unlikely that EMP will hop down in the sewer and come up through the toilet to kill the wife's hairdryer. :)
Well, for those that are really worried, why not just buy a conex or two and insulate them?
Just build an all out old school armored off roader with out electronics.
mcantar18c
05-11-2011, 19:56
My truck is a manual, so I could push start it, but its a HEUI system so I still need the computer to regulate the fuel.... which makes me wonder about the injector pump that I hadn't really considered before, that'd probably need replacing too and those ain't cheap. I thought about just picking up some replacement parts and putting them in a safe spot, but I'm hoping to figure out a solution to protect what I already have rather than just have replacements for it. While it wouldn't be too hard to replace the starter/computer/alternator fairly quickly (ASE cert. mechanic), I want to be able to up and go immediately.... there may not always be time to sit and wrench on your vehicle.
I've been playing with the idea of selling my truck for another Jeep like my old one, it was a '79 CJ7 with nothing electronic except for the lights and of course the starter motor. Even most of the gauges were cable-driven. Now I'm putting some actual thought into this. But I don't want to lose the truck bed and ability to tow... well, anything.
Maybe I'll sell my truck and use the money to build a custom rig, with armor and 'hardened' electronics and the works.... hmm this could be fun......[Tooth]
Maybe I'll sell my truck and use the money to build a custom rig, with armor and 'hardened' electronics and the works.... hmm this could be fun......[Tooth][/quote]
We can do that. many years ago I built a vehicle with kevlar and plate floor, BP windows kevlar reinforced doors and engine compartment, adde 1200#s to the vehicle, but the guy was happy.
And so was I cost him about 12k to do it.
mcantar18c
05-12-2011, 12:29
Maybe I'll sell my truck and use the money to build a custom rig, with armor and 'hardened' electronics and the works.... hmm this could be fun......[Tooth]
We can do that. many years ago I built a vehicle with kevlar and plate floor, BP windows kevlar reinforced doors and engine compartment, adde 1200#s to the vehicle, but the guy was happy.
And so was I cost him about 12k to do it.[/QUOTE]
Between my experience/education as an auto tech and my experience with fabrication (both structural and sheet metal) I figure I can probably get something done fairly inexpensively if I did the work myself. I do like the idea of kevlar though and I've never worked with that at all.
jerrymrc
05-12-2011, 15:01
Between my experience/education as an auto tech and my experience with fabrication (both structural and sheet metal) I figure I can probably get something done fairly inexpensively if I did the work myself. I do like the idea of kevlar though and I've never worked with that at all.
Working with Kevlar takes many forms. I have used it in place of fiberglass and had some good results[Coffee]
Working with Kevlar takes many forms. I have used it in place of fiberglass and had some good results[Coffee]
Yup.[Beer]
mcantar18c
05-22-2011, 21:47
I found the perfect EMP vehicle. Description matches what I'm looking for perfectly [ROFL1]
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/2337422098.html
Original "F" Head, Rebuilt Top End, Converted to 12 Volts, Changed to Warn Locking Hubs, New Shocks, Five Gun Racks, Buddy Seats in Back (for the gunners), Tow Bar, Some Rust Spots (It's almost 60 years old...) Uglier than Dirt but Runs Great and is Guaranteed to be EMP Proof. Good Hunting Vehicle...
jerrymrc
05-23-2011, 16:00
What is kind of scary is that there are ATV's that are almost as big.
mcantar18c
05-23-2011, 17:15
If I had the money for a project I'd probably go pick that thing up. I'd love to restore an old Willy's.
We are trying to score a military MJ around the corner from us.
Hopefully.
Has the original ID # under the hood US Navy.
mcantar18c
05-24-2011, 01:08
Nice, I love those MJs... great platforms to build cool chit out of. Lemme know if you get it.
HBARleatherneck
05-24-2011, 06:44
so, once you get a EMP proof vehicle, whats to keep someone else from taking it from you? where do you get your fuel? Seems like there will be many other problems if there were a strong enough emp attack.
sure you can store some fuel, but how much? how long will it last you? how to keep others from taking it?
the modern gas stations are going to have a hard time dispensing fuel. I guess you could suck it out of the underground tanks.
once a group of bad guys with no car, see you with a car, how to keep from being shot and your car taken?
jerrymrc
05-24-2011, 16:14
Mad Max.
Those new "Anti Carjacking" flame throwers down in South Africa could always be beefed up a little to throw a longer flame. Combine that with a little diesel or kerosene and everyone within 20' could be flaming and in a real sort of way.
Sorry as a mod I should not have these nefarious thoughts but a 12v pump and supplies from the "drip irrigation" an "Gas grill" section of your Home depot would make it cheap.[Coffee]
[Beer]
Sounds like a project.
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