Long term self sustaining food and water plans?

[J Tactical Firearms]

I would like to have some property in the mountains one day and have been wondering about longterm self sustainability i.e. food and water. I guess with a well you would be good on water? Have been wondering what types of things to grow,store,etc.? Trying to think long term off the grid.

[jerrymrc]

Take a look around. Also take a look at the sticky's. This forum is kinda new but many have years of experience[Coffee]. Many of your questions will be brought to light. ;) And welcome again.:)

[J Tactical Firearms]

Thanks!

[Irving]

What do you think you'll be growing in the mountains?

[Mtn.man]

Taters, carrots, lettuce, spinach, radish's, broccolli, strawberry's, peas, and in the green house maters, cukes, beans, and whatever else I can.
Have a plum tree, and an apple tree, both blooming.
Deer are a problem so have to fence your open garden and your fruit trees.

[Irving]

How long is the growing season, and what altitude are you at?

[bobbyfairbanks]

Ya good question? I live at 8300 ft and my garden last year was a complete flop. only thing I got out of it was 2 mangy carrots.

[Ronin13]

Deer are a problem so have to fence your open garden and your fruit trees.
Well you can hunt and eat the deer when/if the time comes that there is no law to really care about poaching... that or get a hunting license- the human body needs protein and as much as the vegetarians claim you really have to eat meat to sustain a certain level of health.

[Mtn.man]

We are at 9500+/- a few according to altimeter.

I use seeds from many years of collecting them, trade with others, etc.
even with the outside plants we have hoops to put plastic over just in case we need it.

[J Tactical Firearms]

I dont have any property inside the mountains yet(not for a a few more years). Was just wondering about self sustainment and if anyone else had gone through trial and error out here already. Currently we're at 7200' elevation but thats here in town. Any areas I have looked at were at least 9000'. I just know that once I have said property I would like to practice trying to be as self sustaining as possible. That way when Im older and move out there permanently I can come to town as little as possible. Trying to live way out there with my wife and dogs. (If my wife agrees to come.) [LOL] Custom build firearms and have a small range to shoot on. Im thinking Jeremiah Johnson, pilgrims. Food, water, shelter: its the little things in life that count. With some practice I could actually have a list of seeds or supplies to store long term. I guess like a 'kit' but more for family size sustainment and less like a "3 day pack". I just think that its important for humans to know how to find/make their own food. I can scavenge like the dickens and hunting wouldnt be an issue but its those other things I havent thought of. It only took New orleans 3 days to descend into total chaos after Hurricane Katrina and for food/water to stop running through the supply lines.

[ShooterJM]

I've heard garlic grows well at elevation as well.

[J Tactical Firearms]

Yeah, you need a way to season your veggies! Could you grow your own wheat/grains for bread? I like the idea of a couple fruit trees. I have heard twice now about certain apples growing well out here.

[Rust_shackleford]

You'll need a green house

Taters, carrots, lettuce, spinach, radish's, broccolli, strawberry's, peas, and in the green house maters, cukes, beans, and whatever else I can.
Have a plum tree, and an apple tree, both blooming.
Deer are a problem so have to fence your open garden and your fruit trees.

[King]

Ive seen wild raspberries in the mountains so I know those will grow. What about some livestock? My parents have chickens. Very low maintenance and they pop eggs out daily.

[Irving]

Sure raspberries grow in the mountains, but how much sustenance will they really provide for you?
I've eaten wild raspberries, and I tell you what, they were pretty delicious, and I wasn't scrounging around for food, near starving to death. I can only imagine how wonderful they'd taste if I were short on food.

[King]

Your definitely right, they probably wont sustain life for long. I was just adding to what others have mentioned as to what will grow.

[KevDen2005]

What do you think you'll be growing in the mountains?



Medicinal Marijuana

[MED]

You'll need a green house

My wife put out a tomato plant this year much to my fun poking at the futility of doing so...it was dead in a week. My house sits just under 9,000ft. I plan to build a greenhouse with solar power for the fall when temps drop below freezing.

[MED]

I guess with a well you would be good on water?

Only if you have the power to pump it out of the ground!

[lasinvegas]

A small greenhouse with an aquaculture set up would be the way to go in the mtns in my opinion. My experience with aquaculture has shown a huge growth jump over plants grown in other manners. Your fertilizer is self replacing and you get the added benefit of meat.

As far as growing grains go, i'm not sure you could grow enough to make a loaf of bread reliably. I could be wrong, but it might be worth a try from someone already living in the mtns to see what they come up with. Be worth knowing before you actually had to grow them.

As far as livestock, I am a big fan of goats. They can feed and thrive in areas that a lot of other livestock would never thrive in. Plus you can get milk and make cheese from them. I am a big fan of ducks over chickens for eggs. We have ducks now and have averaged over 300 eggs each a year from our girls.

[Irving]

When you say "aquaculture" are you referring to having a tank with fish in it, with plants growing on top of the water? I recently heard something about this on NPR. I guess the fish poop fertilizes the plants. Supposedly, getting the balance just right is kind of a big deal. There must be more to this though, because I know that all the fish I have would eat any plant I tried to grow.

[lasinvegas]

There are several ways to do the aquaculture thing as well as several different fish and crayfish you can grow.

Basic system description-

Tank for the fish and a tank for the growing medium and plants. That is all there is to it. You pump the water from the fish tank into the second tank which is usually mounted higher than the fish tank. Once the water reaches a set height in the plant tank it will activate the siphon and drain back to the bottom tank. This allows the roots to get flooded with the nutrient rich water from the fish tank as well as filter the water for the fish. You can also grow things like lettuce in rafts on top of the fish tank. The rafts are nothing more than styrofoam with holes for the lettuce roots that float on top of the water and you harvest as needed.

It gets a lot more technical than this, but I didn't want to get too into it. I guess I could start a thread on it if there was enough interest.

[Irving]

That's a great explanation, thanks. That really is a pretty viable source of both meat and veggies. I wonder what kind of numbers you could pull though. Lets say that you have a fish tank the size of an above ground pool, and a veggie tank of equal size. Is that going to be able to get you enough food to feed a family for a year and remain sustainable, or will it be more for having an excellent supplement for your other stores?

[lasinvegas]

I got to tour a facility that had 4- 1500 gallon tanks set up with a 400 gallon table. The table was basically a 20ft long trough that had the water pump on one end and a matching tank behind it with the plants. They pumped from one end and the water came back in on the other so it kept a nice flow of nutrients going. The table had redclaw crayfish and had lettuce rafts over the full length. The 1500 gallon tanks were actually holes in the ground with pond liners. The whole set up was in a 30ftx20ft greenhouse.

They produced roughly 200lbs of crayfish, 2000lbs of tilapia and 2000lbs of yellow perch a year on the meat side. The production rates on the veggies were off the chart as well. I don't remember all of the numbers, but they were producing-
basil
peppers
tomatos
zuchini
lettuce
spinach
cabbage
and many more herbs and veggies I can't remember off the top of my head.

They were producing on a scale that was making money to cover the operation selling to local restaurants. In my mind not too bad for an operation housed in 600 sqft. They chose the inground route because it was cheaper to keep the water heated in the winter and it in turn kept the greenhouse heated.

[Irving]

Wow, those are great numbers. The news piece on NPR was talking about restaurants haven't their own set-ups exactly like that, so that the customers could always know exactly what kind of fish they were getting and where it came from.

[lasinvegas]

I have been working on designing a smaller furniture quality set up that I can market that will use a regular display tank like most people have and grow kitchen herbs or small veggies in the kitchen or living room. No reason you can't use goldfish or cichlids to grow kitchen herbs for your own kitchen.

I would even recommend a smaller design like this as a cheap way to get your feet wet.

[Irving]

That's funny, because I have a fish tank and an aerogarden. Might as well just connect them and have less maintenance for them both.

[J Tactical Firearms]

Only if you have the power to pump it out of the ground!

Good observation. Good thing I was thinking about long term solar. Since power might be a requirement you would need a solar setup that might possibly have to last forever or at least be repairable post civilization.

[J Tactical Firearms]

There are several ways to do the aquaculture thing as well as several different fish and crayfish you can grow.

It gets a lot more technical than this, but I didn't want to get too into it. I guess I could start a thread on it if there was enough interest.

I saw a video on this once and was thinking this was the best idea. I would be interested in reading more info on the subject. If its sustainable long term then it could be a good hobby to learn if you ever need to provide meat and veggies for yourself.

[rocktot]

The question I have is is it practical to grow veggies in a standard greenhouse (simple construction) at 7000 ft? All year round, in raised beds or something.

[J Tactical Firearms]

Couldn't a hand pump work for your water well if you couldn,t keep a solar system going long term? You remember the old metal hand pumps you see on farms?

[Irving]

Couldn't a hand pump work for your water well if you couldn,t keep a solar system going long term? You remember the old metal hand pumps you see on farms?

Treadle pump would probably be even better, but they are only good for 7 meters.

[Byte Stryke]

Good observation. Good thing I was thinking about long term solar. Since power might be a requirement you would need a solar setup that might possibly have to last forever or at least be repairable post civilization.

if this is to be truly off of the grid, I have a suggestion you might not like.

http://image.made-in-china.com/5f2j00YeWTVlacqibu/Hand-Water-Pump.jpg

reality is that if your solar system fails, you die.
There are so many things from a simple circuit failure to a "Solar Disruption" Scenario that will render an electric/solar system useless.
Then there is the shelf life issue of batteries. Current draw, Motor life, etc.

a little more work, allot more reliable.