View Full Version : Our boys don't get enough good pub
UberTong
06-01-2011, 09:54
zg-Rpt1L--w
Funny how we don't hear about all the times like this when our guys take every single precaution to do the job right.
Lex_Luthor
06-01-2011, 09:59
good vid!
Great video, I've seen that one before and it's amazing what our rotor boys have to go through now a days just to get guns on target. I know an Apache pilot who fired on some insurgents when I was in Afghanistan and he said one of the rockets he fired collapsed a wall of a hut and killed an innocent- he told me how heavy a burden that is to weigh on you, knowing that yes, you killed the enemy, but there was an innocent civilian killed in the process. ROE over there is really strict and it's making it harder for the good guys to do their job and destroy the enemy, but it's really necessary to avoid collateral damage and turn the populous against us.
UberTong
06-01-2011, 10:16
Great video, I've seen that one before and it's amazing what our rotor boys have to go through now a days just to get guns on target. I know an Apache pilot who fired on some insurgents when I was in Afghanistan and he said one of the rockets he fired collapsed a wall of a hut and killed an innocent- he told me how heavy a burden that is to weigh on you, knowing that yes, you killed the enemy, but there was an innocent civilian killed in the process. ROE over there is really strict and it's making it harder for the good guys to do their job and destroy the enemy, but it's really necessary to avoid collateral damage and turn the populous against us.
Well said Ronin, thanks for your service.
bobbyfairbanks
06-01-2011, 10:31
I couldn't disagree with you more. The only thing that these people understand is power and money. Unless you fight this war like Vikings, we will lose and right now I am telling you get used to that losing feeling.
And yes I am talking from fighting there.
Well said Ronin, thanks for your service.
Glad to have done it... thanks for your support.
Wanna see a film that really shows what it's really like? Check this out, it's available on Netflix if you have it, Restrepo:
http://youtu.be/-DjqR6OucBc
[Sorry don't know how to put the embedded video on here like the OP]
I couldn't disagree with you more. The only thing that these people understand is power and money. Unless you fight this war like Vikings, we will lose and right now I am telling you get used to that losing feeling.
And yes I am talking from fighting there.
Oh I know exactly what you mean, but we have too much political red tape to deal with to make it so the enemy is more afraid of us than anything else, the leadership in Washington doesn't want to try to stomp out the enemy so they really don't do anything about punishing those who give aid to the enemy, I've seen what happens when they catch someone who aids Taliban and other insurgent fighters, and it's not shoot them in the head for cooperating.
UberTong
06-01-2011, 10:41
Ronin I own three copies of Restrepo, bought one for me and my brother and gave one away to a co worker. So much red tape it makes me sick, if we took the handcuffs off our guys...
Ronin I own three copies of Restrepo, bought one for me and my brother and gave one away to a co worker. So much red tape it makes me sick, if we took the handcuffs off our guys...
It is such a great film huh? I know a guy who spend 60 days out there and talked to him after the film and he said that place is no joke.
Like the general says in "The Siege": "You don't fight a junk yard dog with ASPCA rules, you take the leash off your bigger, meaner dog." If only... I wish we could have our military be the most feared, merciless fighting force in history, and make them as elite and ruthless as the Spartans, then we wouldn't even have these cowards attack us in the first place.
UberTong
06-01-2011, 10:59
It is such a great film huh? I know a guy who spend 60 days out there and talked to him after the film and he said that place is no joke.
Like the general says in "The Siege": "You don't fight a junk yard dog with ASPCA rules, you take the leash off your bigger, meaner dog." If only... I wish we could have our military be the most feared, merciless fighting force in history, and make them as elite and ruthless as the Spartans, then we wouldn't even have these cowards attack us in the first place.
Great flick, I want to make every American watch it...maybe they won't be so loose with their hippie opinions. I couldn't agree more with you Ronin, the softness in this country and the political correctness in this country is the suicide of America.
Byte Stryke
06-01-2011, 12:08
Only when the enemy knows there is nowhere to hide and no protection will they surrender.
They will continue to hide with civilians because they know we will not fire on 40 Talis if it will put a single civilian in the paper. They are fighting their war in the press, and they are winning.
They will continue to hide with civilians because they know we will not fire on 40 Talis if it will put a single civilian in the paper. They are fighting their war in the press, and they are winning.[/quote]
So sad and so true
Bailey Guns
06-01-2011, 19:55
I'm curious, if that scenario had been in WWII, how much ordnance would have been expended to flatten the entire area? And how would "collateral damage" have figured into the battle plan?
clublights
06-01-2011, 20:18
I'm curious, if that scenario had been in WWII, how much ordnance would have been expended to flatten the entire area? And how would "collateral damage" have figured into the battle plan?
I'd assume you knew Bailey .....
In about 1965 war went from "hell" to "rainbows and puppy dogs"
Why weren't those guys concerned that there was a helicopter circling them?
clublights
06-02-2011, 02:09
Why weren't those guys concerned that there was a helicopter circling them?
long range optics RULE..
probably far enough off they never heard it .
Apaches are fairly quiet for a helo .
Bailey Guns
06-02-2011, 04:37
I'd assume you knew Bailey .....
In about 1965 war went from "hell" to "rainbows and puppy dogs"
Yeah, I know. Hearts and minds...blah, blah, blah.
I think we should kill them and put their hearts on a stick. Maybe that would change their minds.
theGinsue
06-02-2011, 06:43
but it's really necessary to avoid collateral damage and turn the populous against us.
I'm with bobbyfairbanks on this one. I don't believe that in most cases they actually possess any sense of allegiance beyond the next few minutes. We are still the outsiders there and don't share any cultural similarities with these folks. We are sharing *our* way of life with them which is as alien a concept to them as their way of life is to us. Whereas we grasp the concept that the enemy of my ememy is my friend, they do not necessarily share this same ideology.
While I'm grateful for the amazing efforts of our troops over there,
diplomatic cause was lost before we even started. All we can really hope for is to take out as many militant individuals, such as members of the Taliban, without having our actions add to their numbers.
Scanker19
06-02-2011, 06:43
Yeah, I know. Hearts and minds...blah, blah, blah.
I think we should kill them and put their hearts on a stick. Maybe that would change their minds.
Hearts and minds.......... Two in the heart, one in the mind.
yeah, WWII was won by firebombing dresden and nuking japan twice.
the gloves need to come off and the taliban needs to be crushed.
if barry gets reelected he'll declare victory because bin laden is dead, and in ten years there will be terrorists practicing to kills us in afghanistan again.
UberTong
06-02-2011, 09:14
Yeah, I know. Hearts and minds...blah, blah, blah.
I think we should kill them and put their hearts on a stick. Maybe that would change their minds.
Awesome +1
I'm with bobbyfairbanks on this one. I don't believe that in most cases they actually possess any sense of allegiance beyond the next few minutes. We are still the outsiders there and don't share any cultural similarities with these folks. We are sharing *our* way of life with them which is as alien a concept to them as their way of life is to us. Whereas we grasp the concept that the enemy of my ememy is my friend, they do not necessarily share this same ideology.
Oh believe me, I know this first hand. The sad thing is, over there (not just Afghanistan but anywhere that is tribal islam) they don't see things the same way as us. Here we are Americans, Coloradans, *City*, *Family*... over there they are Family, tribe, village, province, then country- it's completely opposite where their allegiances lean toward. They barely recognize that they are Iraqis in Iraq, they don't really care as long as they can live the way they've been living. If we could only become more ruthless and induce more fear than our enemies we may just win, because fighting an enemy that doesn't fear death you must make them fear you and what you'll do to them besides kill them.
You can totally hear it in the pilot's voice: "No really, I promise they're ALL bad guys, now can I just do my f*cking job?"
That video got pretty badass at the second half when they were tearing those guys up.
No firsthand experience, but I'm reading a pretty good book right now that details the history of western experience with Afghanistan called In Afghanistan by David Loyn. He pretty much points out that most of these guys are loyal to two things, tribe and tribute. And are only loyal to money as long as it is convenient to keep suckling that tit.
No firsthand experience, but I'm reading a pretty good book right now that details the history of western experience with Afghanistan called In Afghanistan by David Loyn. He pretty much points out that most of these guys are loyal to two things, tribe and tribute. And are only loyal to money as long as it is convenient to keep suckling that tit.
100% agree... our unit was able to turn some of those supporting the Taliban with a little pocket padding, but sometimes the TB was able to turn our friends against us with money and threats- the US doesn't threaten to murder a person, their family, and all their friends, so we kinda loose that battle right there. 2 died on our base from underhanded stuff like that.
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