View Full Version : Any one have or have good knowlage about the 7.62x54Rmm dragunov or PSL equivalent?
I am in the process of looking for Dragunov style Sniper rifle chambered in 7.62x54Rmm for a company i am interning for and i'm not much of an expert when it comes to this style of gun. could use some insight and education on the subject. i have been using Google for the basics and so forth and have an idea, but want to get a personal opinion?
what should i look out for? which company's should i try and stay away from? and what ones should i look at more closely at buying? and approximative value or range i'm finding around 600-1000 depending on who it was made by and whats included?
currently one i am looking at is a Romanian PSL chambered in what i stated above but not 100% on brand i know it was rebuilt and or worked on.
thanks coop
Well, I could tell many stories about SVD... :)
Seems to me you do not want to get the real SVD, but some of cheap clones ? By "real" I mean rifles built by hand for MVD and some army units. With proper ammo that kind of SVD outshoots most cheap AR-15 and AR-10 rifles. Worst thing is, last time I noticed one for sale the price was little below 4000 euros overseas without optics...
I have bad experiences with Romanian made AK variants (and good experiences with very few AK´s), remember the old saying: you get what you pay for.
If you wanna kick up dust, Romanian PSL will probably do. If you actually want to hit something smaller than Volkswagen longer than 300yd away, choices are much more limited.
Well, I could tell many stories about SVD... :)
Seems to me you do not want to get the real SVD, but some of cheap clones ? By "real" I mean rifles built by hand for MVD and some army units. With proper ammo that kind of SVD outshoots most cheap AR-15 and AR-10 rifles. Worst thing is, last time I noticed one for sale the price was little below 4000 euros overseas without optics...
I have bad experiences with Romanian made AK variants (and good experiences with very few AK´s), remember the old saying: you get what you pay for.
If you wanna kick up dust, Romanian PSL will probably do. If you actually want to hit something smaller than Volkswagen longer than 300yd away, choices are much more limited.
yeah thats what i have been hearing and reading about many of the clone built rifles! basically what i am trying to achieve is as close to or at least the correct round and barrel length that the SVD has or close to what might be used over seas! plus a clone type rifle is really all they can afford currently!
BPTactical
06-07-2011, 05:32
If you were to find a true SVD or type 86 (Chinese variant IIRC) you would be looking around a 2500.00 starting price and go up depending on accessories.
The differences between the PSL and SVD are night and day. The SVD has a milled receiver, replaceable trigger group, hammer forged barrel and an adjustable gas system. They are a true sniper rifle and are built to MOA standards but still will not hold a candle to an AR10 or bolt gun for accuracy. Aside from being a CommBloc rifle they have very little in common with an AK
The PSL is more of an AK on steroids. They are not a sniper rifle but more of a "designated marksmans" rifle, they were to give a squad a little more long distance oompf.
A Cugir (Romainian) built PSL are really the only ones worth having as with any AK if it is a kit build it is only as good as the builder.
Standard AK fire control components interchange and takedown and operation is identical to an AK. A Cugir built one will have a 1.5mm thick receiver. Length of pull is painfully short but there are aftermarkets available or they can be "stretched". Take a look at the pic page on my website, I stretched the one I had. Accuracy was fair, about 3 MOA at a hundred. I reworked the trigger and put a different flash hider on and got it down to about 2 MOA. They are sensitive to ammo choices and prefer the N7 rounds but it can be tough to find and expensive. If you are going to shoot the stuff that comes in the spam cans do the rifle a favor and get a recoil buffer for the action, the heavier bullet really batters the action. The gas port can be tweaked to slow down the gas impulse.
They are a fun shooter but you aren't going to be driving tacks at 300 yards.
I've owned one in the past, a PSL, and really liked it and BP nailed it. The PSL has an AK action, the SVD does not.
In terms of shooting, many even prefer the PSL and while looking into it I even found stories of snipers preferring (http://www.dragunov.net/finn.html) it at times. The Finns are no joke
That said, the scope that comes on them is crap, don't expect much out of it, even a zero hold, I owned one, friend owned own, we both lost zero...every time, I just shot it irons. There are other scopes you can buy, but I never picked one up. I also modified the crap out of mine, ended up with a 17" inch barrel. I can't find a photo, sold it to a forum member so maybe someone has one here. One of the better professional modifications I have seen is this one (http://www.rifledynamics.com/services/gsr.php). The barrel is real long, and cutting it down seems to not hurt it one bit. They tend to string up when they get warm. Mags, buy mags, they aren't all over the place but I think I saw a few at Machine gun tours.
One note- the ammo in the cans can eat these guns up, be careful with the ammo, we got rust frequently, and I believe the PSL is built for the 150 grain round as BP mentioned, I only used that stuff.
As to the furniture, I am 6'2" and I liked the LOP, it was short to be sure, but I found it comfortable and didn't complain when shooting.
As to accuracy, it was very functional, but these aren't "sniper" weapons. The soviets had an fully different idea of what to build, I like this concept-
built for battle - Nagant
built for hunting - Mauser
built for target shooting - 1903
The Soviets aim for functional accuracy, and the PSL is a minute of man gun and reasonable ranges. Just made to throw into squads and back up AKs.
If you were to find a true SVD or type 99 (Chinese variant IIRC) you would be looking around a 2500.00 starting price and go up depending on accessories.
The differences between the PSL and SVD are night and day. The SVD has a milled receiver, replaceable trigger group, hammer forged barrel and an adjustable gas system. They are a true sniper rifle and are built to MOA standards but still will not hold a candle to an AR10 or bolt gun for accuracy. Aside from being a CommBloc rifle they have very little in common with an AK
The PSL is more of an AK on steroids. They are not a sniper rifle but more of a "designated marksmans" rifle, they were to give a squad a little more long distance oompf.
A Cugir (Romainian) built PSL are really the only ones worth having as with any AK if it is a kit build it is only as good as the builder.
Standard AK fire control components interchange and takedown and operation is identical to an AK. A Cugir built one will have a 1.5mm thick receiver. Length of pull is painfully short but there are aftermarkets available or they can be "stretched". Take a look at the pic page on my website, I stretched the one I had. Accuracy was fair, about 3 MOA at a hundred. I reworked the trigger and put a different flash hider on and got it down to about 2 MOA. They are sensitive to ammo choices and prefer the N7 rounds but it can be tough to find and expensive. If you are going to shoot the stuff that comes in the spam cans do the rifle a favor and get a recoil buffer for the action, the heavier bullet really batters the action. The gas port can be tweaked to slow down the gas impulse.
They are a fun shooter but you aren't going to be driving tacks at 300 yards.
I do not know what is AR10 accuracy for you ? Anyway, SVD´s issued to my unit long time ago, shot regularly 2-1/4 to 2-1/2" @300 meters so 0.6 - 0.8 moa, with issue ammo. I have not seen many AR10 do the same, specially with non-handloaded ammo.
There are of course huge differences between different models, you can not really compare Chinese rifle to hand built Russian one.
Different rifles have very different bore and rifling dimensions, you should always gauge the bore to see what kind of ammo you should use.
Russian rifles like 7N1 or Lapua made sniper ammo. I have heard 7N14 is not as good quality as 7N1 but have never tried the newer ammo.
good information all, thanks still reading and figuring out if this is what they need or not!
BPTactical
06-07-2011, 12:51
What is AR10 accuracy? If an AR10 will not shoot 1MOA or less at 100 yards then either the shooter is not doing their job correctly or we have a mechanical problem with the rifle. They are a precision weapon.
I have a customer of mine that has an Armalite AR10T with a Krieger barrel on it. I thought he was full of it when he showed me a quarter with a 3 shot group that consisted of 1 ragged hole. He pulled off this trick @ 225 yards. I didn't believe him until he showed me the video of the shots.
My bone stock LR308 Classic would shoot 1 MOA at 200 yards all day if I did my job right.
Again I think we are looking at a difference in philosophies. CommBloc doctrine-if it will drop the target at 300 meters then that is acceptable accuracy.
Western doctrine- I want to be able to knock the wings off of the fly on the targets nose if need be.
Hannu- you were there and know a bunch more about the CommBloc weapons and mindset than I. I can only go off of the documentation and reading that I have done plus a couple of first hand accounts of a couple of eastern Europe customers I have.
Please feel free to share any information you like, we are never to good to learn something new.
Brost[Beer]
cms81586
06-07-2011, 13:03
I am in the process of looking for Dragunov style Sniper rifle chambered in 7.62x54Rmm for a company i am interning for and i'm not much of an expert when it comes to this style of gun. could use some insight and education on the subject. i have been using Google for the basics and so forth and have an idea, but want to get a personal opinion?
what should i look out for? which company's should i try and stay away from? and what ones should i look at more closely at buying? and approximative value or range i'm finding around 600-1000 depending on who it was made by and whats included?
currently one i am looking at is a Romanian PSL chambered in what i stated above but not 100% on brand i know it was rebuilt and or worked on.
thanks coop
What's going to be the purpose of the rifle?
PSL/FPK's (which are nowhere near the same as an SVD) will routinely shoot 2"-3" groups with decent surplus ammo. They run $600-$900 with optics.
Chinese NDM-86's (Chinese SVD clone) will do about the same in 7.62x54r. In .308 they'll do 1.5MOA with match ammo/handloads, just make sure it has the spring loaded firing pin upgrade. They run $3000-$5000 with optics
Real KBI imported SVD's go for $7k+ anymore and are just collectors pieces to most. They hold similar 1"-3" accuracy depending on the ammo. One sold unfired on ARFCOM back in 08 for $11K.
Here's what I suggest. The PSL and SVD's both are not precision rifles. They're designated marksmen rifles, similar to our M14-EBR's. You can get most rack grade .308 battle rifles to shoot as well as or better than an SVD with some factory match ammo. Get an AR-10 with a free floating barrel from a decent manufacturer and use match ammo. It'll shoot sub-MOA for a lot less, leaving you with more money for optics and to practice. If it's going to be used for anything more than a toy then suggest that they get something a little more practical. The scope mounting system on PSL/SVD's is a weak point on the firearm. They have very minimal surface area to secure the optic when compared to most modern mounting techniques (picatinny rails/rings). Knock one good up against something or the firearm falls over and you'll be headed to the range to rezero. It doesn't take much. Don't ask me how I know...
CMS
What's going to be the purpose of the rifle?
PSL/FPK's (which are nowhere near the same as an SVD) will routinely shoot 2"-3" groups with decent surplus ammo. They run $600-$900 with optics.
Chinese NDM-86's (Chinese SVD clone) will do about the same in 7.62x54r. In .308 they'll do 1.5MOA with match ammo/handloads, just make sure it has the spring loaded firing pin upgrade. They run $3000-$5000 with optics
Real KBI imported SVD's go for $7k+ anymore and are just collectors pieces to most. They hold similar 1"-3" accuracy depending on the ammo. One sold unfired on ARFCOM back in 08 for $11K.
Here's what I suggest. The PSL and SVD's both are not precision rifles. They're designated marksmen rifles, similar to our M14-EBR's. You can get most rack grade .308 battle rifles to shoot as well as or better than an SVD with some factory match ammo. Get an AR-10 with a free floating barrel from a decent manufacturer and use match ammo. It'll shoot sub-MOA for a lot less, leaving you with more money for optics and to practice. If it's going to be used for anything more than a toy then suggest that they get something a little more practical. The scope mounting system on PSL/SVD's is a weak point on the firearm. They have very minimal surface area to secure the optic when compared to most modern mounting techniques (picatinny rails/rings). Knock one good up against something or the firearm falls over and you'll be headed to the range to rezero. It doesn't take much. Don't ask me how I know...
CMS
good info everyone keep it coming i'm learning a lot i didn't know about these type of rifles!
the rifle really is only going to be used for target shooting and testing! and gathering data with the 7.62x54Rmm round! if it only shoots 3"moa thats fine.
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