The S is about to HTF : Operation Fast and Furious

[TFOGGER]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/09/justice-officials-in-panic-mode-as-new-testimony-is-expected-to-reveal-depth/

[Colorado Luckydog]

This will be very interesteg. No matter what happens, it will be the American gun owners that take it right in the butt. You mark my word on that.

[clublights]

You know what will come of this ???

NOTHING... absolutely nothing.

Someone up in the food chain at the ATF.. close to retirement anyways will fall on the sword.... they will get fired.. a few others will get bad marks in their jackets.. but it won't hurt their careers.....

the media will be satisfied and it will all just " go away"

[jerrymrc]

This will be very interesteg. No matter what happens, it will be the American gun owners that take it right in the butt. You mark my word on that.

I actually think it may our cause once all the dirty secrets come out. One of there talking arguments just went out the window. There claim they like to use about all the US guns in Mexico that come from the US is now a little more believable but please ask the state dept what they are doing to get the guns THEY sent there back.

Almost any 2nd argument or any gun control argument will now include the disclaimer that if the state dept and the DEA think it is OK then why are ya bugging me about it.

Except for a couple of the usual suspects I do not see anything new for some time.

Just my 2 cents on it.[Coffee]

[sneakerd]

Unbelievable, but so like the inept gov't entity that sponsored the op.

[trlcavscout]

It will help get another awb passed. They will argue that if they weren't availabe it wouldn't have happened.

[Ronin13]

I don't want to sound like the broken record player here, but if legislation gets passed, it only serves to take away guns from those who would NOT use them for illegal purposes. Criminals will get their hands on guns no matter what, legal or not.
As far as the Op goes, chalk this up as another huge failure in our "War on Drugs." If they just take the leash of a really big angry dog- ie go for harder and less kid gloves tactics- and crack down a bit more on the drug trade (my advice- shoot armed people illegally crossing the border, they do it every day and it feels like nothing is being done, even if they are armed Mexican military). This is a one sided war, the cartels bring in untold TRILLIONS every year (probably more) and we've got a budget of what, a few hundred million, if not a few billion. They have unlimited funds and we're trying to clamp down? It's a failure to begin with and the guns, people, and drugs are going to continue to pass between the border unless the US Gov't can step it up and tighten the grip a little more, but that is doubtful with the current feeble and inept administration.

[sneakerd]

Hey Ronin, was there actually a Katie Couric interview such as one in your postings? I would have loved to see her face.

[Ronin13]

Not sure about a Couric interview but I saw a doc on the National Geographic channel that talked about how only 10-20% of the drugs that cross the border ever month are seized... If Katie could interview one of the DEA agents that work the Eastern AZ sector and see how much actually slips through she'd probably s*** herself.

[sneakerd]

I'm talking about the "recoil" statement at the bottom of each of your postings.

[cstone]

Hey Ronin, was there actually a Katie Couric interview such as one in your postings? I would have loved to see her face.

Snopes said "no" there was no marine sniper interview by Couric. Apparently it is a time honored joke amongst the hard hearted baby killers many of us have been and some aspire to become. [ROFL1]

It is a good line, and I smile every time I read Ronin13's sig.

[sneakerd]

Damn. As I said earlier, I would have loved to see her face -if- such an interview had ever occured.

[Ronin13]

OOOh, no that's a joke, it was proved wrong on Snopes but it still is very funny. The interview text was sent to me in an email some time ago, and it said [Katie's jaw drops], after checking it out it was just a patriotic thing that someone circulated around that got a chuckle out of a lot of people.

[Elhuero]

atf is on the short list of govt agencies that should be shut down post haste.

we should pull every soldier out of korea, germany, and japan and put them on our borders.

[talon]

Well this might not have been a half bad idea had they put tracking bugs in all the rifles. I don't know, I supose it doesn't matter since it didn't happen(the tracking bug part)

[Zundfolge]

Usually when it comes to the future of our gun rights (or any other good thing for that matter), I'm a huge pessimist ... however this whole gun runner thing has me hopeful that we might just see the end of the BATFE as we know it.

[Irving]

Well this might not have been a half bad idea had they put tracking bugs in all the rifles. I don't know, I supose it doesn't matter since it didn't happen(the tracking bug part)

Doesn't the article specifically state that they DID in fact put GPS trackers in the stocks? Or are you just being sarcastic?

[nogaroheli]

Doesn't the article specifically state that they DID in fact put GPS trackers in the stocks? Or are you just being sarcastic?

It says they put them in SOME stocks.

[Irving]

And how did that work out? lolz

[Mak the Knife]

The scary thing, is that Obama understands that he can not attack gun control head on, just like the brady campaign reported recently. Obama is looking to move gun control forward "under the radar".
One explanation for all of this is quite frightening. Let's say that Obama or his administration initiated these gunrunner programs with the intention for the programs to eventually fail and go public. The desired result would be to get groups like the NRA, Congress, co-ar15, and eventually the general population to scream for a massive overhaul of BATFE. So, Obama shrugs his shoulder and says, "sure, I'll overhaul and remake BATFE, just like I did with the banking industry, the auto industry, healthcare...."
My concern is that a sweeping overhaul of BATFE, under Obama's admin, would be devastating to our rights.

[stevelkinevil]

atf is on the short list of govt agencies that should be shut down post haste.

we should pull every soldier out of korea, germany, and japan and put them on our borders.

Amen, from your lips to gods ears.
lets [Beer]

[tmckay2]

if we could keep them out of the US i wouldn't mind so much. i mean they have knowingly and willingly flooded us with tons of illegal immigrants who commit crimes and drain our society, so why can't we arm the thorn in their side and make life harder for them?

unfortunately, those guns will probably come across the border often and cause american deaths

[CMP_5.56]

The scary thing, is that Obama understands that he can not attack gun control head on, just like the brady campaign reported recently. Obama is looking to move gun control forward "under the radar".
One explanation for all of this is quite frightening. Let's say that Obama or his administration initiated these gunrunner programs with the intention for the programs to eventually fail and go public. The desired result would be to get groups like the NRA, Congress, co-ar15, and eventually the general population to scream for a massive overhaul of BATFE. So, Obama shrugs his shoulder and says, "sure, I'll overhaul and remake BATFE, just like I did with the banking industry, the auto industry, healthcare...."
My concern is that a sweeping overhaul of BATFE, under Obama's admin, would be devastating to our rights.

I absolutely agree on this. They are trying to sneak gun control through the side door, while nobody is looking. The left has been planting the seeds for this administration for a long time, and they are really going to start to take away freedoms at some point. More than likely before the next election. They don't want to chance that he won't go back in the white house.

[UberTong]

Whoooa....that gun store in AZ is where I bought my first XD. Weird.

[Ronin13]

Usually when it comes to the future of our gun rights (or any other good thing for that matter), I'm a huge pessimist ... however this whole gun runner thing has me hopeful that we might just see the end of the BATFE as we know it.

I can see it now: "Good evening, I'm Brian Williams, our top story tonight amid many mistakes and errors in judgement, Congress has mandated the dismantling and shutdown of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Republicans in Congress have pushed to keep the employees and offer them jobs at the same pay grade in other organizations within the government to include Customs and Immigration Enforcement, Border Patrol, and the Drug Enforcement Administration."
Now that would be cool...

[Zundfolge]

They are trying to sneak gun control through the side door, while nobody is looking.
Thing is, everybody is looking.



I can see it now: "Good evening, I'm Brian Williams, our top story tonight amid many mistakes and errors in judgement, Congress has mandated the dismantling and shutdown of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Republicans in Congress have pushed to keep the employees and offer them jobs at the same pay grade in other organizations within the government to include Customs and Immigration Enforcement, Border Patrol, and the Drug Enforcement Administration."
Now that would be cool...
That would be cool ... probably a bit more than we can expect, but there are many in Congress that have been pushing for a serious audit of the BATFE for the last couple terms ... this might get more moderate weenies on board with the idea.

[Irving]

I can see it now: "Good evening, I'm Brian Williams, our top story tonight amid many mistakes and errors in judgement, Congress has mandated the dismantling and shutdown of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

I took out the part that I didn't like.

[Byte Stryke]

I took out the part that I didn't like.

because you want unemployment to break 10% ???

[Irving]

Just because some worthless agency gets shut down, doesn't mean that jobs should automatically be created, especially at the same level, for those people. What happened to smaller government?

[Ridge]

atf is on the short list of govt agencies that should be shut down post haste.

we should pull every soldier out of korea, germany, and japan and put them on our borders.

If we do, they cannot be armed. The law forbids the use of armed military personnel deployed within US borders.

[Zombie Steve]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

When are these folks in the beltway going to get it through their heads that everything they touch they comes with unintended consequences?

[CO Retriever]

I think that we the gun owners are eventually going to get the short end of the stick. These idiots know that even if this went public that they still have the ability to say that if Bush would have never let the AWB expire it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

The reality is that the vast majority of us who own these types of weapons (which I saw somewhere last week was like 8 mil own AR type rifles) talk a bunch of crap about how bad the gov is, but we aren't doing anything about it, and I think that the NRA is just as much to blame.

These bastards are slowly moving us to a socialist society where the Democrats and Republicans are really just different sides of the same coin, both in charge of us the sheeple.

Whether we like it or not, I personally think that Dudley Brown has some good points on what is going on in Washington and with the NRA. I think that there is a big issue with the Patriot Act allowing warrant-less searches, including all us on this board who could be viewed as potential terrorist by big sis Napolitano because of our preference toward certain beliefs and the choice of certain weapons. That's almost everyone of us on this board. When you have Republican senators not standing for the second amendment in these cases there is a real problem there.

Now we have Mitt Romney leading the field for 2012, when this Jacka** implemented an AWB in MA after the federal AWB expired. I mean give me a freaking break, the man practically drew up the blueprint in MA that Obama used for our healthcare reform.

I think there are very few patriots in elected posts that actually care about our rights under the Constitution. I don't care where anyone stands on the birth certificate issue, there are some pretty damn good arguments that the long form birth certificate that he released is a forgery and there has been a case filed with the FBI over it. However even in the most conservative circles its conspiracy theory. There are a lot more Americans today are questioning this issue.. Who the heck is this guy and what is he trying so hard to hide?

If anyone has access to the history channel series America: The Story of Us (its on Netfilix), take sometime and watch it, heck watch it with your kids and family. The founding fathers of this great nation faced a very similar situation with being controlled and taxed by the British and they understood the need to be able to keep and bare arms to protect their rights as free men. These men were true patriots and new that if we did not have the right to protect ourselves then the republic could not stand.

The American public seems hell bent on walking us toward the European type of government and socialism that we have seen fail in Europe. The difference is that they are breaking the American people economically first, and then they will continue on with their massive power grab and strip us of the rest of our rights. We can look at Katrina as a microcosm of what we are headed toward. One disaster that destroys everything that people have (inflation for us, makes everything more expensive, and now the jobless rate), then they round up the weapons that people can use to protect themselves (stripping us of our second amendment rights), and then they help by taking people who were to dumb or couldn't take care of themselves to the Superdome (price controls on fuel, healthcare, and food now you get what the government says you get).

It's going to be a wild ride. I pray that this great nation survives

[mx'r]

I heard through the grapvine that we'll be hearing more about this on Tuesday. Someone's gonna burn.

[Chad4000]

It's a scary time in history....

[Byte Stryke]

It's a scary time in history....

fear is a tool of the oppressor.

I grew up ~130km from the Fulda Gap in Germany.
This is the place that all allied forces agreed that the Communist/Russian invasion would take place after the Nukes started falling...


that never happened either.

Going to do what I can and let someone else lose sleep over it.

[porfiriozg]

that BS, one person (illegal or not) can get 40 guns from a store

and i can't even get my (1) rifle from a pawn shop, that was originally in my name to begin with

[clublights]

Now I'm not one to often need a tinfoil hat BUT....



I find it HIGHLY interesting that the day before the first hearings or deadlines or what ever it is exactly (june 15th) that CNN runs THIS(Report: Many weapons used by Mexican drug gangs originate in U.S.) (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/14/mexico.guns/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) story and makes absolutely NO mention of Project Gunwalker Or Fast And Furious.

Interesting... very interesting.........

Excuse me while I try to make a tri-corner outta tinfoil ......

[Ronin13]

Retriever, what you stated is so very true, and at some points extremely frightening. When America was founded, the cornerstone of the whole revolution was the simple and easily grasped concept of "No taxation without representation" which I feel we are starting to see again... In the mid-1700's the British Crown wanted to tax the colonists, except the colonies had no one to represent their views and opinions in the British Government. No one would speak for the colonies then the taxes could be spent on anything, with no regard or looking out for what would become America. Today, we see something similar taking shape. I'm sure our "elected" representatives in both the House and Senate aren't really trying to look out for our well-being here in the Centennial State. I remember in my youth (grade school) I wrote a letter to one of our State Senators concerned about legislation that could potentially hurt small business- something that my family has a vested stake in due to our small insurance brokerage that my grandfather started and my father had bought from him. The response I got back? A pre-written letter thanking me for writing to him and what appeared to be a simple cut and paste signature. The bastard didn't even sign the letter himself! I soon realized that the only way a government representative would listen is if 1,000s of constituents let their voice be heard, because one voice is pretty quiet among the loud, nonsensical and meaningless blather of Washington D.C. Thomas Jefferson and George Washington and friends would vomit if they saw what America has become in just a little over 200 years.

[funkfool]

‘Gunrunner’ Whistleblower Vince Cefalu Speaks (PJM Exclusive) (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fired-gunrunner-whistleblower-vince-cefalu-speaks-pjm-exclusive/)

Posted By Patrick Richardson On June 24, 2011 @ 12:51 pm In

Earlier this week, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) sent a letter [1] to Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Deputy Director William J.
Hoover, insisting on assurances [2] there would be no reprisals against the
ATF agents who have chosen to testify about the failed Operation Fast and
Furious — the operation Issa has called “felony [3] [3]stupid [3].”
Just a day later, ATF Special Agent Vince Cefalu received notice ATF
wants to terminate his employment after more than 30 years with the agency.
Cefalu is one of the founders of CleanUpATF [4]. [4]org [4], [4] a message
board dedicated to addressing abuses within the ATF. He is one of the most
vocal critics of the heads of the organization.
He said the main reason given in the four-page document for his termination
is “lack of candor.”
Four years ago, what originally landed Cefalu in trouble was a case called
“Road [5] [5]Dog [5]“. In that case, local law enforcement was allegedly
using an illegal wiretap — something Cefalu resisted:
I threw the locals under the bus. … I became the most vocal critic and they
got sick of my s***.
He’s since spent four years in a do-nothing job, with ATF managers hoping
he’d get the message and retire:
They put me in a cage, paid me full salary, and hoped it would break me
down mentally and I would retire.
Since he did a three-part series of interviews about the problems in ATF
with CNN’s Anderson Cooper last May [6], Cefalu says he’s been given only
122 minutes of work:
Not GS-13 investigative work either. Changing batteries or filling cars
with gas.
Cefalu said he’s suffered persecution in several other ways as well:
[Acting Director] Ken Melson can’t even respond to a letter from a
committee chairman. … I can’t fart in public without being accused of violations.
I’ve submitted to seven internal affairs investigations since I blew the
whistle. Without an attorney present, I answered every question.
I’m representing dozens of agents [in greivance cases]. They take me out of
play, they take a bunch of these cases out of play.
Cefalu says there should be prosecutions in the failed Operation Fast and
Furious case, also known as “Gunwalker.” When asked if ATF had violated the
law in this case, he responded:
Of course if violates the law! They conspired to traffic firearms, you can’
t do that under color of law. … There was no intent to follow the guns,
this never had a chance of succeeding. It was a failed plan from the beginning.
He also says there is no huge gun-trafficking operation, no “Iron [7]
[7]Pipeline [7]” of firearms traveling from the U.S. to Mexico — just lots of
buyers who can make a couple thousand dollars selling weapons across the
border.
In addition, he has some more explosive allegations: he says the Mexican
government was not made aware of the operation, and neither was the U.S.
ambassador to Mexico.
And he says people within the Justice Department had to be aware of the
operation — contrary to what Attorney General Eric Holder claimed. Cefalu says
no one runs a major operation like this without getting approval from
their boss.
Despite all of it, Cefalu said he just wants to see the agency he loves
cleaned up:
It breaks my heart, it’s shameful to me. … I’m afraid the agency will be
abolished because of the actions of a few self-serving individuals.

URLs in this post:
[1] letter:
(http://pajamasmedia.com../../../../../../tatler/files/2011/06/2011-06-21-DEI-to-ATF.Hoover-re-Operation-Fast-and-Furious.pdf)
[2] assurances:
(http://pajamasmedia.com../../../../../../blog/gunwalker-issa-defends-atf-whistleblowers-from-retaliation/)
[3] felony:
(http://pajamasmedia.com../../../../../../blog/obama-admins-comments-on-gunrunner-scandal-strain-credulity/)
[4]CleanUpATF:
(http://cleanupatf.org/mission.html)
[5] Road:
(http://cleanupatf.org/forums/index.php?/topic/122-vince-cefalu-and-the-road-dog-case/)
[6] May:
(http://articles.cnn.com/2010-05-26/politics/atf.whistleblowers_1_atf-wiretap-cnn?_s=PM:POLITICS)
[7] Iron:
(http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2010/02/16/cnn-touts-iron-pipeline-legal-guns-go-bad)

[funkfool]

'Project Gunrunner' Whistleblower Says ATF Sent Him Termination Notice

Published June 27, 2011 | FoxNews.com

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is being
accused of retaliating against an agent who helped publicize the
agency’s role in allowing thousands of guns to cross the U.S. border and
fall into the hands of Mexican drug gangs.
The agent, Vince Cefalu, who has spoken out about the ATF's so-called
"Project Gunrunner" scandal, says he was served with termination papers
just last week, and he calls the move politically motivated.
“Aside from Jay Dobyns (an ATF special agent based in Tucson), I
don't know of anyone that's been more vocal about ATF mismanagement than
me,” said Cefalu, a senior special agent based in Dublin, Calif.
“That's why this is happening.” (Dobyns has appeared several times on
Fox News to discuss the scandal.)
Cefalu first told FoxNews.com about the ATF’s embattled anti-gun
smuggling operation in December, before the first reports on the story
appeared in February. “Simply put, we knowingly let hundreds of guns and
dozens of identified bad guys go across the border,” Cefalu said at the
time.
Since then, Cefalu’s claims have been vindicated, as a number of
agents with first-hand knowledge of the case came forward. The scandal
over Project Gunrunner led to congressional hearings, a presidential
reprimand – Obama called the operation “a serious mistake” – and
speculation that ATF chief Ken Melson will resign.
Yet last week, Cefalu, who has worked for the agency for 24 years,
was forced to turn in his gun and badge. He can appeal but will be on
“paid administrative leave” during the process.
Cefalu’s dismissal follows a string of allegations that the ATF
retaliates against whistleblowers. When the Project Gunrunner scandal
broke, Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, wrote the ATF that an agent who had
been giving his staff members information about the scandal had been
"allegedly accused... of misconduct" by the agent’s boss for talking
with Grassley’s staffers.
And two days before Cefalu was served with termination papers, Rep.
Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and
Government Reform, sent a letter to the ATF warning officials not to
retaliate against whistleblowers.
ATF spokesman Drew Wade denied in a statement to FoxNews.com that the
bureau is retaliating, but he declined to comment about Cefalu's case.
“ATF will not comment on specific, ongoing personnel matters. It is
illegal to use disciplinary actions to retaliate against employees, and
ATF does not engage in such improper reprisals.”
The ATF's termination letter to Cefalu, obtained by FoxNews.com, makes no mention of Cefalu’s role in the latest scandal.
“You think they would just come out and say that,” Cefalu said.
The letter instead says that Cefalu should be fired because he leaked
documents on a website he helped create, CleanupATF.org, and showed a
“lack of candor” on past projects, in particular a 2005 operation that
Cefalu led. Cefalu admits he made information about the case public but
says he did so only after redacting sensitive parts and exhausting
internal channels.
In the 2005 case, local police wanted to wiretap a suspect to gather
evidence, but Cefalu objected, saying it would be illegal to use
wiretaps until all other options for gathering evidence had been tried.
Cefalu was then removed from the case. But he continued to speak out
and file internal complaints about what he viewed as illegal ATF
wiretapping. And that’s when his life became difficult.
“That was the beginning of the end,” Cefalu told FoxNews.com.
“I had never had a disciplinary action in 18 years. Outstanding
evaluations -- above average -- and on the 19th year, when I filed a
complaint, I get my first unsatisfactory evaluation ever.”
Cefalu showed a copy of his 2005 evaluation to FoxNews.com, in which
his supervisor, Dennis Downs, noted: “Not only have you meet [sic]
performance expectations, you have exceeded them.”
But that changed after 2005, Cefalu said. He received unsatisfactory
evaluations complaining about his use of foul language. The termination
letter also notes there were complaints about his smoking and “even your
hygiene.”
Another ATF agent, who requested to remain anonymous but who has
provided accurate information on the Project Gunrunner case to
FoxNews.com in the past, discussed what he knew about Cefalu.
“Common knowledge in the agency is that Cefalu outed an illegal
wiretap quite some time ago, and he has been in the crosshairs since,”
the agent told FoxNews.com. “My impression of him is that he has
probably ruffled lots of feathers and delicate egos in his time. He is
very direct and honest.”
But this agent said he'd “prefer that to a ‘go along to get along’ type."
"We don't avoid or learn from mistakes if we just lie to each other
about how we never do anything wrong -- which is pretty much standard
operating procedure from what I have seen of our HQ people," the agent
said.
Cefalu said his work on the Project Gunrunner scandal likely was the last straw for his bosses.
“I think it’s obvious why they’re doing this. It was my willingness
to expose (Project Gunrunner) and support other people to come forward,”
Cefalu said.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/27/atf-to-fire-gunrunner-whistleblower/#ixzz1QWL9M7nl

More: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/tossed-for-the-truth-atf-fires-project-gunrunner-whistleblower/

[Byte Stryke]

Treasonous.

they should clean house.
put this agent and every agent that stepped forward in charge...

[CMP_5.56]

Treasonous.

they should clean house.
put this agent and every agent that stepped forward in charge...

Big +1

[clublights]

Looks like even more is coming out ....

now with audio tapes!!!


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20108240-10391695.html

[cstone]

This here is some Grade A, prime cut of government gobbledegook. It must have taken a team of Ivy League lawyers at least a week to come up with this paragraph alone:

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) will ask a multi-disciplinary panel of law enforcement professionals to review the bureau's current firearms trafficking strategies employed by field division managers and special agents. This review will enable ATF to maximize its effectiveness when undertaking complex firearms trafficking investigations and prosecutions. It will support the goals of ATF to stem the illegal flow of firearms to Mexico and combat firearms trafficking in the United States."

[Eggysrun]

If the economy wasn't in such shambles I'd bet this would get more attention it deserves and Obama be impeached. There is absolutely no doubt this "operation" got the "ok" from the president.

[Irving]

I'd like to see a report on how successful the ATF has been on preventing drunk driving and cancer from cigarettes. What do they even do in relation to cigarettes and alcohol again?

[sniper7]

I'd like to see a report on how successful the ATF has been on preventing drunk driving and cancer from cigarettes. What do they even do in relation to cigarettes and alcohol again?

they get funding from taxing them.

BATFE is worthless on almost every level. just another .gov organization that should be defunded.