View Full Version : RMGO Stoops to New Low...
Bailey Guns
06-28-2011, 16:57
Of all the gun shops in Colorado, they had to choose Gunsmoke???
Excerpt from a RMGO email...
There’s a new TV show about firearms being filmed in Colorado right now, and RMGO needs your help.
A major international television network is producing a brand new show following the daily lives and business operations of one of the country’s – and Colorado’s -- most prominent gun selling, buying, repairing, building, and gunsmithing families, Gunsmoke Guns in Wheat Ridge, Colorado, with it's owner, RMGO Life Member Rich Wyatt.
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners is playing a role in this show, and has agreed to help make it a success.
But to make it a success, we need your help.
The production company filming this show is looking for individuals in Colorado who:
• want to buy a specific gun
• trade a gun
• have a gun rebuilt or repaired
• have a gun custom built
• have a gun adorned with custom engraving
• want to show or sell a gun or whole collection of guns
• want to trade something for a gun (i.e. jewelry, cars, collectables, etc.)
This show is looking for people who are passionate about their guns, have stories about their firearms and want to share those stories. No story is too personal, too steeped in history, too outlandish. Every gun has a story… and this show would like to hear yours, and possibly put it on TV.
palepainter
06-28-2011, 17:01
Great....More fake reality shows with guns...
Drama+verbal insults+guns= Ratings. I hope they are in there when someone puts a deposit on a gun, then fails the BG check, then doesn't get their money back. HAHAHAH
There are a couple of them on here. Don't they read the reviews..
Oh, wait, Blubber butt is a life member..
I'm sure he "donates" also.
So, there you go...
blacklabel
06-28-2011, 17:12
Apparently their business is slow.
I should bring my XD in and make up a sob story about having to sell a 4th generation heirloom. Hey, he said he didn't care how over the top it was.
Byte Stryke
06-28-2011, 17:41
yeah I got that and let them know in a definitive manner that I would not be renewing due to their affiliation with Gunsmoke.
Shooter792
06-28-2011, 17:49
yeah I got that and let them know in a definitive manner that I would not be renewing due to their affiliation with Gunsmoke.
Yea me too.
Scanker19
06-28-2011, 18:13
For those not tracking: http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13579
scratchy
06-28-2011, 20:21
Yep. Wyatt's not going to get a nickel out of me.
Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that I'll never send money to your organization again because you've chosen to affiliate with this gun shop. Of ALL the gun shops in the ENTIRE state of Colorado, you really had to choose the worst shop? I've been in there enough times, with my own personal (terrible) experiences to know that business is of the lowest class. Rich Wyatt himself is a convicted criminal. Is it possible that RMGO is so desperate for money that you will team up with the worst gun business in the state for some extra publicity? Dudley Brown should be ashamed of himself. You've permanently lost my business. Disappointed and disgusted do not even begin to express my feelings about this decision.
Sadly,
Stuart
Of all the gun shops in Colorado, they had to choose Gunsmoke???
I don't get it either. Wyatt must be handing out free hookers and blow.
The store is mostly a monument to Wyatt's ego.
I was there for a Cory Voorhis fund raiser before the governor's election here and Wyatt told everyone to vote for McInnis...the room got very quiet for about 10 seconds.
Quote:
Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that I'll never send money to your organization again because you've chosen to affiliate with this gun shop. Of ALL the gun shops in the ENTIRE state of Colorado, you really had to choose the worst shop? I've been in there enough times, with my own personal (terrible) experiences to know that business is of the lowest class. Rich Wyatt himself is a convicted criminal. Is it possible that RMGO is so desperate for money that you will team up with the worst gun business in the state for some extra publicity? Dudley Brown should be ashamed of himself. You've permanently lost my business. Disappointed and disgusted do not even begin to express my feelings about this decision.
Sadly,
Stuart
Well this sums it up for me too, what a huge dissapointment. Gunsmoke is a frickin joke and I will NEVER go back there.
What other gun shops are there in Denver/Colorado that can do what Gunsmoke does? I am assuming that Jensen's and 5280 cant.
Rich taught my CCW class and I don't anything bad to say about him in that reguard. I have never delt with him outside of that though.
Zundfolge
06-28-2011, 22:12
Of ALL the gun shops in the ENTIRE state of Colorado, you really had to choose the worst shop?
Not to defend Dudley here but I'm going to assume that the production company picked Gunsmoke to do their show and RMGO is just sidling up to them.
Still, one is judged by the company they keep.
I have to wonder if the production company didn't pick Gunsmoke because they can be used to make gun owners and dealers look bad.
What other gun shops are there in Denver/Colorado that can do what Gunsmoke does? I am assuming that Jensen's and 5280 cant.
Rich taught my CCW class and I don't anything bad to say about him in that reguard. I have never delt with him outside of that though.
Classes: Most shops.
Gunsmithing: in-house few, Colorado Machine Gun tours is one I can think of off the top of my head. But most know of good guys who can do a FAR better job.
taking a firearm in to have some internal work done, and getting it back with the shop's logo etched on the slide would make me so angry I'd crap twice, do a jig, then carve MY name on whoever defaced my gun.
CMP_5.56
06-28-2011, 22:29
I opened that email and instantly replied that my support is over. Never again. Sounds like everyone feels about the same as me.
taking a firearm in to have some internal work done, and getting it back with the shop's logo etched on the slide would make me so angry I'd crap twice, do a jig, then carve MY name on whoever defaced my gun.
Has that really happened? If so what was the outcome?
Has that really happened? If so what was the outcome?
Not to me, but I did some reading into the other threads and it looks like something the shop does.
What other gun shops are there in Denver/Colorado that can do what Gunsmoke does? I am assuming that Jensen's and 5280 cant.
Rich taught my CCW class and I don't anything bad to say about him in that reguard. I have never delt with him outside of that though.
Isn't this like asking which other mechanics in town can do what a Meineke does?
Chad4000
06-28-2011, 23:38
I seriously can't believe they are putting their logo on peoples guns..... My jaw is on the floor right now.. That is amazing......
I know Rich, he's a nice guy and very smart when it comes to what he does, but their practices are not what I would consider on the end of "greatness." I would submit Matt and Gina from 5280 Armory every day, and twice on Sunday over Rich.
was interviewed by discovery channel before i went to the shop . after going to gun smoke i will not be a part of that at all . walked around the small shop and pawed at over 20 guns for 45 min (with my gal) and not one person even said hello . hell i dont like being bothered at a store but at a certain point i expect someone to at least say hello to the lady .
I just unsubscribed from their mailing list. I'm sick of Dudley's crap and I figure if anything important comes out, I'll see it here anyway.
Has that really happened? If so what was the outcome?
Hell yes, it's happened! Take a handgun in there for some work, it'll come back out with their logo engraved on it!
GunsRBadMMMMKay
06-29-2011, 07:21
IDK if I've ever been to/heard of Gunsmoke but this thread is interesting. [Coffee]
So with all you guys dumping RMGO (and understandably so), I'm curious where you look for good grey market weapons when not offered here on this site (which is, curiously, sponsored by RMGO :)). I use ColoGunMarket and can't use it unless I'm RMGO. I'm not a huge fan of that site but sometimes stuff comes up that's interesting.
Shooter792
06-29-2011, 07:59
Note: Look at the top of this page.... RMGO ad.
Who would support asking this forum to remove RMGO ads?
Just a thought
Byte Stryke
06-29-2011, 08:05
Note: Look at the top of this page.... RMGO ad.
Who would support asking this forum to remove RMGO ads?
Just a thought
I dont care about their ads.
But I'm not supporting them anymore.
ghettodub
06-29-2011, 08:18
Never have, and never will, throw a dime RMGOs way unless I see them actually do something... Dudley's beg-a-thon spam e-mails go straight to my trash can now...
flan7211
06-29-2011, 08:21
For those of us that don't know could you guys give us a list of what sucks about gunsmoke?
battle_sight_zero
06-29-2011, 08:28
I admit since seeing the responses about a GUNSMOKE in the past it stopped me from going into that store. Cant believe that a shop would put their crappy logo onto to a pistol slide without the premission of the owner, not to mention installing inferior parts etc. My gun collection for me is not just for protection, and personal entertainment but is also one of my most sigificant financial investments. Id be pretty pissed if someone monkeyed with one of my pieces in such a way.
I am curious, it has been mentioned that the owner Rich Wyatt is a convicted criminal. What was he convicted of and how the heck does he hold a FFL? Anybody got a link?
Another personal view is that I believe these reality shows are designed to make gunbuyers look like a bunch of nutcakes. If one of the shops I frequent had a show filming their business I would never show my face in the store ever again. To me my ownership and purchases are a private act and I certainly dont want that on some show for all to view. It is to bad that Gunsmoke will most likely see alot of business from this due to idiots who want to get on TV. Most of the entertainment will most likely be from clowns who never wanted to own a firearm who show up just be on TV.
I do like the Colorado Gun Market site, but I have to admit that sometimes the RMGO emails I get are over the top and designed in a manner to get me to panic and then donate. However their center was pretty professional when I sought help for some advice on some legislation questions. I am surprised that they would endorse a criminal.........
For those of us that don't know could you guys give us a list of what sucks about gunsmoke?
+1
For those of us that don't know could you guys give us a list of what sucks about gunsmoke?
Flan, it was earlier in the thread: http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13579.
There are only about 3 separate threads on here about Gunsmoke.
I just unsubscribed from their mailing list. I'm sick of Dudley's crap and I figure if anything important comes out, I'll see it here anyway.
This.
My one personal interaction with Dudley was pleasant enough, but a little odd. I emailed him to let him know about an error in their law FAQs (turns out I was right). He thanked me for pointing it out, and then asked why I was not a member.
Any way we can combine all these RMGO/Gunsmoke threads?
I have to admit that I was running fast and lose when I stated that Wyatt is a convicted criminal. It had something to do with his divorce from a wife years ago.
Delfuego
06-29-2011, 09:38
The ColoGunMarket website is just for people who haven't found CO-AR15 yet. We should put banner ads up there and bring them in![Beer]
Scanker19
06-29-2011, 09:42
For those not tracking: http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13579
end quote. It was at the beginning of this thread.
I could tolerate the Fear mongering email, and the pleading for money (they are a donation only org), but maybe they just don't know how bad Gunsmoke is. Its sorta of like if Bin Laden had Been a life member to the Susan G. Komen Breast cancer org, and donated a lot of money to the cause.
Is the squeeze worth the juice?
As for Dudley, as some of you have said, being a not-so-nice guy that alone is enough to never donate to them again. If he can't be nice to his constituents after giving him money then, fuck him. I've never personally been privy to this but, one is more than enough.
Bailey Guns
06-29-2011, 09:44
I have to admit that I was running fast and lose when I stated that Wyatt is a convicted criminal. It had something to do with his divorce from a wife years ago.
IIRC, which I may not, I think Wyatt did spend a short time in jail over a civil issue related to his divorce. A judge ordered him to pay his ex-wife a substantial some of money and give her some guns. He refused, never paid, went to jail.
BPTactical
06-29-2011, 09:58
Why don't yall lay off of GunSmokes gunsmithing end of business? I rather enjoy their service as it has provided me with amusement and times of saying: "WTF were you doing/thinking when you attempted X".
I have had the pleasure of correcting issues on no less than 6 1911's that have been "enhanced" by the crew at the above named establishment, as a matter of fact I have one in shop as I post this. In every instance the malady was directly attributable to these factors:
1- not understanding the function of the firearm.
2- not having a knowledge of functional modifications that actually enhance the operation of the platform.
3- poor execution of said modifications.
4- poor craftsmanship.
5- incompetence.
As far as their sales routine-I feel that the incident last year that played out on Tom Martino was at the very least poor business practice and criminal at most. Lady X paid for pistol Z. Pistol Z comes in and Lady X goes and completes 4473 to complete transaction and transfer. Lady X is denied and Gunsmoke refuses to return monies paid toward pistol X. (Enter poor business practices here). Gunsmoke concedes to put the pistol for sale on consignment less 20% "fee".
This is where the criminal aspect comes into play. If Gunsmoke consigns said firearm that means that Lady X was infact the owner of the firearm(even if only on paper) and contracted GunSmoke for the consignment. Now if Lady X was the owner then Gunsmoke committed a Federal felony and knowingly transferred a firearm to an individual that was denied a CBI background check prior to accepting possession for consignment.
I know it seems like semantics but a dealer can't consign a firearm on behalf of a private individual if that firearm is still in the dealers inventory. They would have to transfer the firearm to the individual first.
As far as RMGO I have seen no action on their behalf of Colorado firearm issues other than forwarding NRA and SAF emails. They made my "spam" list a while ago.
I would like to see respectful protests forwarded to the Discovery Channel regarding this. Presenting GunSmoke as a reputable dealer/smithing service is a disservice to almost all shops/smiths in Colorado.
They are a poor representation of the industry.
Hell yes, it's happened! Take a handgun in there for some work, it'll come back out with their logo engraved on it!
I would lose it and demand it replaced right then and there, if not lawsuit would be filed the same or next day.
When you get work done on your truck you don't see them slap a badge on the back of it?
What a ridiculous practice.
Why don't yall lay off of GunSmokes gunsmithing end of business? I rather enjoy their service as it has provided me with amusement and times of saying: "WTF were you doing/thinking when you attempted X".
I have had the pleasure of correcting issues on no less than 6 1911's that have been "enhanced" by the crew at the above named establishment, as a matter of fact I have one in shop as I post this. In every instance the malady was directly attributable to these factors:
1- not understanding the function of the firearm.
2- not having a knowledge of functional modifications that actually enhance the operation of the platform.
3- poor execution of said modifications.
4- poor craftsmanship.
5- incompetence.
As far as their sales routine-I feel that the incident last year that played out on Tom Martino was at the very least poor business practice and criminal at most. Lady X paid for pistol Z. Pistol Z comes in and Lady X goes and completes 4473 to complete transaction and transfer. Lady X is denied and Gunsmoke refuses to return monies paid toward pistol X. (Enter poor business practices here). Gunsmoke concedes to put the pistol for sale on consignment less 20% "fee".
This is where the criminal aspect comes into play. If Gunsmoke consigns said firearm that means that Lady X was infact the owner of the firearm(even if only on paper) and contracted GunSmoke for the consignment. Now if Lady X was the owner then Gunsmoke committed a Federal felony and knowingly transferred a firearm to an individual that was denied a CBI background check prior to accepting possession for consignment.
I know it seems like semantics but a dealer can't consign a firearm on behalf of a private individual if that firearm is still in the dealers inventory. They would have to transfer the firearm to the individual first.
As far as RMGO I have seen no action on their behalf of Colorado firearm issues other than forwarding NRA and SAF emails. They made my "spam" list a while ago.
I would like to see respectful protests forwarded to the Discovery Channel regarding this. Presenting GunSmoke as a reputable dealer/smithing service is a disservice to almost all shops/smiths in Colorado.
They are a poor representation of the industry.
+1. Well said![Beer]
Also,
before everyone keeps on going on and on bashing and dismissing RMGO, maybe Dudley can get in here and explain why he chose to work with Gunsmoke.
from pure word of mouth i will never set foot in their shop, especially due to the practice of stamping their logo on my privately owned firearm. That would never sit well with me.
But as for RMGO, they are more of a hard-nosed group than NRA, not as big, but they still play their part. Why fight the same groups, and deny money from the groups who fights for the right that is assaulted the most?
The emails are definitely annoying, all sounding like the world will end if you don't give money, but that helps some people cut the check. The NRA sends out the same stuff, in a little less fear-mongering fashion but they also have a lot more money, bigger support group etc.
Maybe everyone should take a step back, let Dudley come in here and speak. I want to hear what he says the motives are before I jump to conclusions.
newracer
06-29-2011, 11:48
Also,
before everyone keeps on going on and on bashing and dismissing RMGO, maybe Dudley can get in here and explain why he chose to work with Gunsmoke.
from pure word of mouth i will never set foot in their shop, especially due to the practice of stamping their logo on my privately owned firearm. That would never sit well with me.
But as for RMGO, they are more of a hard-nosed group than NRA, not as big, but they still play their part. Why fight the same groups, and deny money from the groups who fights for the right that is assaulted the most?
The emails are definitely annoying, all sounding like the world will end if you don't give money, but that helps some people cut the check. The NRA sends out the same stuff, in a little less fear-mongering fashion but they also have a lot more money, bigger support group etc.
Maybe everyone should take a step back, let Dudley come in here and speak. I want to hear what he says the motives are before I jump to conclusions.
Well said. RMGO has done a lot for gun owners in this state and continues to hold their stance as a no compromise pro-2A organization. Much more than can be said about the NRA. I never plan to set foot in Gunsmoke but I will continue to support RMGO.
I would lose it and demand it replaced right then and there, if not lawsuit would be filed the same or next day.
When you get work done on your truck you don't see them slap a badge on the back of it?
What a ridiculous practice.
I would equate engraving my gun's slide with sanding/blasting an auto shop's logo directly into the paint on the door of my truck. Same difference to me.
Combatmatt
06-29-2011, 12:09
1) It’s obvious that RMGO did not do their research on their endorsement of Gunsmoke either due to the organizations lack of situational awareness or the blind eyes of the good-old-boy system.
2) Reality TV is at best comical, at worst it's the downfall of society by exploiting, glorifying, and promoting poor judgment, bad behavior, and reinforcement of stereotypes.
3) Anyone stupid enough to align themselves with the promotion, execution, or distribution of reality TV will, in the end, be painted in keeping with their decision..........stupid an more than likely inept.
4) Sit back, relax, and prepare for documented proof of the NTAC circus right in your own backyard.
Personally after reading the posts on this board as well as knowing there will be the reality TV idiots and crews at that place, you'd sooner see me advocating higher gas prices than getting within line of sight of that joint.
Just sayin............
RMGOdirector
06-29-2011, 12:19
Guys,
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners has literally thousands of supporters in Colorado. Would you like us to research them all, to find out which we’ll accept support from?
Rich Wyatt has been a Life Member of RMGO for more than a decade, when we first created the program. He’s been involved at the Capitol, working with RMGO to pass legislation like Constitutional Carry, oppose gun controls and expand our firearms freedoms.
No, Rich isn’t perfect. I'll let him fight his own battles.
But if I had $1 for every complaint I heard about gun shops in Colorado, RMGO would rival the NRA in funding (i.e. annually $370 million).
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve taken my wife and two small kids into a gun shop and had the owner/salesman drop the F-bomb (and more egregiously, use my Savior’s name as a curse word) half a dozen times.
Never had that happen at Gunsmoke.
I also know a lot of gun shops who make tons of money but aren’t willing to use it to fight against gun controls (or, frankly, the sell-outs of some who claim to represent our side yet advance gun control). Somehow, they think peddling their wares is the same as working for our side (it isn’t). More guns equals less crime, but more guns does not equal less gun control laws.
MAJOR POINT HERE:
RMGO was contacted by the TV production company, and we had no hand in choosing the shop or the show.
What we did have a hand in is WHO might appear on the show in each episode (which is why we sent out the e-mail).
We thought to give RMGO members a chance to be a part of the show, knowing the character and commitment of our members.
No matter what you say about Rich Wyatt, he has joined with RMGO in pushing the envelope on a huge number of firearms issues. I’ll let him fight his other battles, and won’t get involved in the gossip (Ephesians 4:25).
In fact, in the 19 years I’ve been a gun lobbyist Rich has been active, he’s pushed the envelope, and (maybe most importantly) he hasn’t compromised (which only a VERY small few in this state can claim). I think I can claim that for myself, but can count the others on one hand.
I knew we'd take some heat on this.
But, if there's going to be a TV show about guns in Colorado, RMGO is a natural (which is why the producer called us in the first place). I'd rather have our people on the show than, well, a toothless banjo player (now watch all the banjo music people scream and moan).
Guys, I've done enough TV myself that I'm not drawn to the bright lights like a moth.
My mom has PLENTY of VHS tapes with me on Hannity & Colmes, every major network, blah blah blah.
My ego doesn't need it. But does RMGO (or better yet, our national group, which is growing MASSIVELY now, NAGR (http://www.nationalgunrights.org)) want it? You bet. Rather have people drinking our Kool-Aid than, well, you-know-who's.
Dudley
Zundfolge
06-29-2011, 12:22
As far as RMGO I have seen no action on their behalf of Colorado firearm issues other than forwarding NRA and SAF emails
Followed by bashing of NRA and acting as though the NRA are in league with Lucifer or Sarah Brady (assuming both are not one in the same).
Followed by taking credit for NRA legislative and/or legal victories.
flan7211
06-29-2011, 12:30
Dudely,
May I first off say that you really have worked hard for gun owners in Colorado. May I ask though how RMGO support for this guy advances the cause? If our own members who are responsible and honest gun owners don't approve, how can this look good to the general public? Just saying Dudely don't support another sleaze support ideas, candidates, and legislation.
Scanker19
06-29-2011, 12:36
So as long as he supports the cause he can have bad business practices towards those whose rights he "defends".
funkymonkey1111
06-29-2011, 12:39
Guys,
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners has literally thousands of supporters in Colorado. Would you like us to research them all, to find out which we’ll accept support from?
Rich Wyatt has been a Life Member of RMGO for more than a decade, when we first created the program. He’s been involved at the Capitol, working with RMGO to pass legislation like Constitutional Carry, oppose gun controls and expand our firearms freedoms.
No, Rich isn’t perfect. I'll let him fight his own battles.
But if I had $1 for every complaint I heard about gun shops in Colorado, RMGO would rival the NRA in funding (i.e. annually $370 million).
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve taken my wife and two small kids into a gun shop and had the owner/salesman drop the F-bomb (and more egregiously, use my Savior’s name as a curse word) half a dozen times.
Never had that happen at Gunsmoke.
I also know a lot of gun shops who make tons of money but aren’t willing to use it to fight against gun controls (or, frankly, the sell-outs of some who claim to represent our side yet advance gun control). Somehow, they think peddling their wares is the same as working for our side (it isn’t). More guns equals less crime, but more guns does not equal less gun control laws.
MAJOR POINT HERE:
RMGO was contacted by the TV production company, and we had no hand in choosing the shop or the show.
What we did have a hand in is WHO might appear on the show in each episode (which is why we sent out the e-mail).
We thought to give RMGO members a chance to be a part of the show, knowing the character and commitment of our members.
No matter what you say about Rich Wyatt, he has joined with RMGO in pushing the envelope on a huge number of firearms issues. I’ll let him fight his other battles, and won’t get involved in the gossip (Ephesians 4:25).
In fact, in the 19 years I’ve been a gun lobbyist Rich has been active, he’s pushed the envelope, and (maybe most importantly) he hasn’t compromised (which only a VERY small few in this state can claim). I think I can claim that for myself, but can count the others on one hand.
I knew we'd take some heat on this.
But, if there's going to be a TV show about guns in Colorado, RMGO is a natural (which is why the producer called us in the first place). I'd rather have our people on the show than, well, a toothless banjo player (now watch all the banjo music people scream and moan).
Guys, I've done enough TV myself that I'm not drawn to the bright lights like a moth.
My mom has PLENTY of VHS tapes with me on Hannity & Colmes, every major network, blah blah blah.
My ego doesn't need it. But does RMGO (or better yet, our national group, which is growing MASSIVELY now, NAGR (http://www.nationalgunrights.org)) want it? You bet. Rather have people drinking our Kool-Aid than, well, you-know-who's.
Dudley
This guy can rationalize anything. What a joke.
DeusExMachina
06-29-2011, 13:04
I got a not-so-pleasant email from Dudley:
Unless my math is wrong, $0 - $0 = $0.
No, this isn’t about money. But, you (a non-member) are whining about a member.
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners has literally thousands of supporters in Colorado. Would you like us to research them all, to find out which we’ll accept support from?
Rich Wyatt has been a Life Member of RMGO for more than a decade, when we first created the program. He’s been involved at the Capitol, working with RMGO to pass legislation like Constitutional Carry, oppose gun controls and expand our firearms freedoms.
No, Rich isn’t perfect.
But if I had $1 for every complaint I heard about gun shops in Colorado, RMGO would rival the NRA in funding (i.e. annually $370 million).
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve taken my wife and two small kids into a gun shop and had the owner/salesman drop the F-bomb (and more egregiously, use my Savior’s name as a curse word) half a dozen times. Never had that happen at Gunsmoke.
I also know a lot of gun shops who make tons of money but aren’t willing to use it to fight against gun controls (or, frankly, the sell-outs of some who claim to represent our side yet advance gun control). Somehow, they think peddling their wares is the same as working for our side (it isn’t). More guns equals less crime, but more guns does not equal less gun control laws.
RMGO was contacted by the TV production company, and we had no hand in choosing the shop or the show.
What we did have a hand in is WHO might appear on the show in each episode (which is why we sent out the e-mail).
We thought to give RMGO members a chance to be a part of the show, knowing the character and commitment of our members.
No matter what you say about Rich Wyatt, he has joined with RMGO in pushing the envelope on a huge number of firearms issues. I’ll let him fight his other battles, and won’t get involved in the gossip (Ephesians 4:25).
In fact, in the 19 years I’ve been a gun lobbyist Rich has been active, he’s pushed the envelope, and (maybe most importantly) he hasn’t compromised (which only a VERY small few in this state can claim). I think I can claim that for myself, but can count the others on one hand.
Can you claim that?
In the end, if you decide not to support RMGO because of one of our members, you’ve got some other issues to deal with.
Dudley Brown
Executive Director
I didn't care to read the gibberish, but he's right. I'm not a member. So since I'm not a member, why am I getting this garbage in my inbox? Unsubscribed.
henpecked
06-29-2011, 13:06
What we did have a hand in is WHO might appear on the show in each episode (which is why we sent out the e-mail).
thanks for replying Dudley
RMGO did a great job advocating for campus carry.
Dudley, thanks for at least coming on here to try and explain the action.
flan7211
06-29-2011, 13:11
Well it's common knowledge the best way to win over someone's support and cash is to insult them. Duh. Yes and to better reason with us, so because this ass gives us money and you don't shut up.
Dudley is a solid guy fighting for the 2nd. I don't always agree with all the decisions made including this one with gunsmoke, but he is a good guy fighting for a great cause that benefits us all.
I just got the same shitty email from Dudley. I have donated money, while I was unemployed. I thought that I was signing up to be a member, but of course never heard anything back from RMGO except for the canned emails.
ghettodub
06-29-2011, 13:31
I got a not-so-pleasant email from Dudley:
I didn't care to read the gibberish, but he's right. I'm not a member. So since I'm not a member, why am I getting this garbage in my inbox? Unsubscribed.
I was hoping that I got that e-mail too so I could unsubscribe. What a bullshit e-mail... give me a break...
EDIT: Score! I had an old e-mail from them. Unsubscribed!
CMP_5.56
06-29-2011, 13:32
Put me on the list of people who received that very same email. Funny part is I also have donated under a different email. (I get all the fear monger emails twice!) And if you look it is the exact thing he posted here on the forum, with a couple insults added.
Here was my response.
Dudley,
To be quite honest, your chain letter that you just sent me, combined with it already being posted on internet forums, shows me no reason to contract my last email.
I don't expect you to investigate all your supporters, or to not except their donations. What I do expect is that an organization that tells me they are working to fight the good fight on my behalf to not publicly align with a person who has done quite a bit to make gun owners look bad.
I take my time in deciding who I donate my time or money to. I do not do it easily, and I look into what my money does. Aside from emails and pleas for me to donate, I have not seen more from RMGO than any other pro 2nd amendment organization. I'm glad you make it easier for me to sign petitions, but the manner you do it in is off putting to say the least.
I have heard plenty of cursing the two times I went into Gunsmoke, the only two times I will ever go in that shop. I have seen evidence of them ruining firearms first hand. As well as plenty of it on forums. Not to mention local news networks showing the public just what kind of business is done at Gunsmoke.
In this world you are only as good as your word. As a business you are only as good as your last sale. If you choose to treat people badly, take their money with nothing in return, or to ruin a customers private property, I want nothing to do with you. As an organization that should be very worried with how they look publicly, I think it would be wise to choose who you publicly stand next to more wisely.
Cory Padgett
funkfool
06-29-2011, 13:40
Maybe everyone should take a step back, let Dudley come in here and speak. I want to hear what he says the motives are before I jump to conclusions.
You need a new title... "The Voice of Reason" ... [LOL]
I'm not going to comment on RMGO other than to say that I appreciate the pressure that is applied politically.
The idea of a "Gun Shop" being a tv show concerns me though. It's one thing to have a show about a coonass Custom Firearms Builder and their custom work (as well as all the other shop BS that you see), but it's another thing to show what happens in a gun shop with the rep it has.
What are they going to film? Articulate, educated citizens, or ignorant folks that wander in who want to buy a "Big Gun".
My prediction is that it won't fare well for any of us.
RMGOdirector
06-29-2011, 14:56
I'll answer direct questions and comments, but will ignore the name callers.
Yes, many people got a cookie-cutter e-mail response.
I'm right in the middle of figuring out the CCIC database issue (which expires on Friday). Want me to sit around and type an individual response? Some will appreciate it, but others.... Life is too short for them.
RMGO has NEVER forwarded NRA or SAF e-mails. We'll work with them when we agree, but we don't take credit for things we didn't do.
For the skeptics who don't think this show will turn out well (and can't, because all TV is against us), I give you Top Shot.
I was skeptical at first, but my wife and I watched it for the second season and thought it was darn good. Finally, I found something to use my satellite dish for, other than Top Gear and hockey.
The production company is made up of quite a few sportsmen/hunters from Gurney Productions. From what I have heard so far, they're pretty decent.
Bottom line, though: the goal of Gunsmoke, Gurney Productions, the cable/satellite channel, and everyone in between is to make money.
RMGO's job is to build an army of activists who can stop gun control and change Colorado's laws. Our goal isn't to put my ugly mug on TV, or get more ego-feeding media attention.... unless it helps build our army.
Bailey Guns
06-29-2011, 15:21
I think the decision, regardless of who made it, to support Gunsmoke was ill advised. I think the decision by RMGO to support that bad decision, regardless of how it's rationalized, was ill-advised.
I'll continue to support RMGO AND NRA, to the best of my ability...though at times (like this) I may have to hold my nose to do it.
Byte Stryke
06-29-2011, 15:26
I'll answer direct questions and comments, but will ignore the name callers.
Yes, many people got a cookie-cutter e-mail response.
I'm right in the middle of figuring out the CCIC database issue (which expires on Friday). Want me to sit around and type an individual response? Some will appreciate it, but others.... Life is too short for them.
RMGO has NEVER forwarded NRA or SAF e-mails. We'll work with them when we agree, but we don't take credit for things we didn't do.
For the skeptics who don't think this show will turn out well (and can't, because all TV is against us), I give you Top Shot.
I was skeptical at first, but my wife and I watched it for the second season and thought it was darn good. Finally, I found something to use my satellite dish for, other than Top Gear and hockey.
The production company is made up of quite a few sportsmen/hunters from Gurney Productions. From what I have heard so far, they're pretty decent.
Bottom line, though: the goal of Gunsmoke, Gurney Productions, the cable/satellite channel, and everyone in between is to make money.
RMGO's job is to build an army of activists who can stop gun control and change Colorado's laws. Our goal isn't to put my ugly mug on TV, or get more ego-feeding media attention.... unless it helps build our army.
So RMGO will publicize and endorse criminal behavior for the sake of "Building an army."
I want to come fix your computer... for the next year and when you get it back it not only wont run correctly, but now has a different OS on it...
Oh, Don't mind my name chiseled into the screen.
[ROFL1]
Interesting info: Gunsmoke's corporation is not registered in Rich's name. I haven't been able to research the FFL as yet, but I would lay money that the FFL is not in his name either.
Byte Stryke
06-29-2011, 15:50
Interesting info: Gunsmoke's corporation is not registered in Rich's name. I haven't been able to research the FFL as yet, but I would lay money that the FFL is not in his name either.
and this would surprise you why?
You cannot have a convicted criminal in possession/ownership of a firearm... Much less a firearms retail business.
talk about your "Straw purchases."
Bailey Guns
06-29-2011, 15:50
It's not uncommon for corporations not to have the "owner's" name registered...oftentimes it's just a registered agent with the SoS.
Also, a corporate FFL wouldn't list an individual's name on it, either.
That doesn't surprise me.
funkymonkey1111
06-29-2011, 15:52
try "gunsmoke guns, inc." his name is listed.
Bailey Guns
06-29-2011, 15:58
You cannot have a convicted criminal in possession/ownership of a firearm... Much less a firearms retail business.
That's not entirely true. It would only apply if the crime for which someone was convicted would prohibit ownership/possession of firearms.
You can be a convicted criminal when the offense was something very minor.
BTW...I still think the only reason Wyatt was in jail was for civil issues relating to a divorce. I think it's a stretch to say he's a "convicted criminal".
Shooter792
06-29-2011, 16:23
I'll answer direct questions and comments, but will ignore the name callers.
Yes, many people got a cookie-cutter e-mail response.
I'm right in the middle of figuring out the CCIC database issue (which expires on Friday). Want me to sit around and type an individual response? Some will appreciate it, but others.... Life is too short for them.
RMGO has NEVER forwarded NRA or SAF e-mails. We'll work with them when we agree, but we don't take credit for things we didn't do.
For the skeptics who don't think this show will turn out well (and can't, because all TV is against us), I give you Top Shot.
I was skeptical at first, but my wife and I watched it for the second season and thought it was darn good. Finally, I found something to use my satellite dish for, other than Top Gear and hockey.
The production company is made up of quite a few sportsmen/hunters from Gurney Productions. From what I have heard so far, they're pretty decent.
Bottom line, though: the goal of Gunsmoke, Gurney Productions, the cable/satellite channel, and everyone in between is to make money.
RMGO's job is to build an army of activists who can stop gun control and change Colorado's laws. Our goal isn't to put my ugly mug on TV, or get more ego-feeding media attention.... unless it helps build our army.
I understand why you would do it. But just like me and many others, in the long run you will find your good name and that of RMGO take a huge hit. It puts you in the same company as the MoveOn .org folks who will do anything to further their cause. Ultimately they diminish it in the long run because of their tactics and associations.
I know Rich Wyatt from some professional dealings, his class and from him as a retail store owner. From people who I know in Aurora PD who tell me that to this day he is not allowed within 1000 feet of an aurora substation. The list just goes on and on. I hope you actually read the posts on the AR-15 forum. These people and Tom Martino and many others who haven't bothered to chime in and those who don't have the outlet or didn't get your email, I mean how many are there? They can't all be wrong... or to some extent all right. But overwhelmingly this decision in too many of your members mind stands out as a bad one.
I have been a member for I think some 4 years and sent more than 20 people to join and attend your CCW class I have signed petitions and actively tried to do things to further the cause. But I will not support this. Not because it is a reality show, but because it is a show with Rich Wyatt.
I thought you better than this.
You are in a way making a deal withe the devil so to speak. If you are a Christian then you know where such things end.
Bailey Guns
06-29-2011, 16:46
If you are a Christian then you know where such things end.
Now that's a pretty good point to bring up since Dudley mentioned that in his response.
Interesting info: Gunsmoke's corporation is not registered in Rich's name. I haven't been able to research the FFL as yet, but I would lay money that the FFL is not in his name either.
Actually it is.
Gunsmoke Custom Gunsmithing, Inc. was incorporated in 1996 and Richard A. Wyatt Jr. was the registered agent. This corporation was dissolved in 2003.
ID Number: 19961029475
Name: GUNSMOKE GUNSMITHING INC., Dissolved January 1, 2003
Principal Street Address: 3650 WADSWORTH BLVD STE 14, WHEAT RIDGE , CO 80033, United States
Principal Mailing Address:
Status: Administratively Dissolved
Form: Corporation
Jurisdiction: Colorado
Formation Date: 03/01/1996
Term of Duration: Perpetual
Periodic Report Month: March
There was a: Gunsmoke, Inc. incorporated in Feb of 2006 by Victor Manuel Rodriguez II at the same address
ID Number: 20061047412
Name: Gunsmoke, Inc.
Registered Agent: Victor Manuel Rodriguez II
Registered Agent Street Address: 9690 West 44th Avenue, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033, United States
Registered Agent Mailing Address:
Principal Street Address: 9690 West 44th Avenue, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033, United States
Principal Mailing Address:
Status: Good Standing
Form: Corporation
Jurisdiction: Colorado
Formation Date: 02/01/2006
Term of Duration: Perpetual
Periodic Report Month: December
Now this is: Gunsmoke Guns, Inc. incorporated in April of 2011 by Richard A. Wyatt .
ID Number: 20111256715
Name: Gunsmoke Guns, Inc.
Registered Agent: Richard A. Wyatt
Registered Agent Street Address: 9690 w. 44th Ave, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033, United States
Registered Agent Mailing Address:
Principal Street Address: 9690 w. 44th Ave, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033, United States
Principal Mailing Address:
Status: Good Standing
Form: Corporation
Jurisdiction: Colorado
Formation Date: 04/29/2011
Term of Duration: Perpetual
Periodic Report Month: April
CMP_5.56
06-29-2011, 17:26
Big +1 to Shooter792!
I found it interesting he brought up his faith to defend the man's choice to not curse. Funnier still he didn't bring up his faith to defend the outright theft of a woman's money. I'm guessing that is because the whole thou shall not steal thing. I heard plenty of cursing the two times I was in gunsmoke. Which was two times too many.
I dont see a reality show ever painting anything in a good light. I see this upcoming show as a bad thing waiting to happen. This whole thing is just in bad taste, and I for one will not align with someone who makes horrible decisions and treats their customers like shit. Aligning with horrible people hoping exposure will help your cause is an action that has backfired before. I personally hope RMGO comes out of this not stinking like shiit.
Dudley did take the time to personally respond to my second email, with pretty font colors like his cut and paste response here. He actually addressed each paragraph I wrote. Pretty much with the same cut and paste responses he did in his second post here. I responded to each of his responses, but since my first act was to rib him about his color fonts I take it he is no longer talking to me.
I will admit, I take the color scheme thing a bit personal. He stated his responses were different color. I take that as him thinking I'm an idiot who can't understand quotation marks.
In the end I feel this will turn out badly for RMGO, I hope it doesn't.
That's not entirely true. It would only apply if the crime for which someone was convicted would prohibit ownership/possession of firearms.
You can be a convicted criminal when the offense was something very minor.
BTW...I still think the only reason Wyatt was in jail was for civil issues relating to a divorce. I think it's a stretch to say he's a "convicted criminal".
Contempt of Court, essentially:
From the Canyon Courier (http://www.canyoncourier.com/articles/2005/02/10/news/news03.txt):
Saturday, February 12, 2005
Former sheriff's candidate being held in jail
by Jonathan Ellis
GOLDEN— A former candidate for Jefferson County sheriff is now a resident in the county jail.
Rich Wyatt was arrested Feb. 2 by the county's fugitive team in Wheat Ridge after he failed to comply with a judge's orders in a divorce case. The arrest occurred without incident in Wyatt's gun store.
"As I understand it, he was very cooperative," Sheriff Ted Mink said.
Wyatt's stay in the jail - compliments of county taxpayers - could extend to six months after he failed to pay his ex-wife $90,000 that he owed her from a divorce settlement. A judge also ordered him to give the ex-wife, Rebecca Wyatt, two expensive firearms, but Wyatt also refused that order.
Wyatt could be released in fewer than six months if he behaves.
"He can't get out on bail," sheriff's spokeswoman Jacki Tallman said. "But he might get good time. It's up to the sheriff's office. It's based on his behavior and other indicators."
George Johnson, Rebecca Wyatt's attorney, said Wyatt can leave jail early if he pays the money and returns the firearms.
"Any time he pays up, he's released," Johnson said. "If he doesn't pay up he still has to do the six months."
Wyatt still must pay the money even if he completes the six months, or he could face another jail sentence, Johnson said.
Wyatt was one of several Republicans who ran to replace Sheriff John Stone in 2002. He finished second in votes at the county assembly, but failed to garner enough support to advance to the primary.
He later filed a lawsuit in an attempt to derail Russ Cook's candidacy. The lawsuit was dismissed and Cook went on to win the office.
Wyatt told the Courier last year that he intends to run for sheriff again.
Wyatt, 41, is also a handgun instructor and firearms dealer. As a candidate, he favored permissive laws for concealed weapon permits.
In 2002, Wyatt bought an ad in Soldier of Fortune magazine offering a $100,000 reward to anybody who killed Osama bin Laden with one of his rifles.
Wyatt argued in court last year that he didn't have enough money to pay Rebecca Wyatt $90,000.
But a judge disagreed, saying Wyatt could access money from some of the property he owned to pay the debt. The judge gave Wyatt until the end of January to make good on the amount.
Wyatt's divorce hearings were anything but ordinary. He was ordered to turn over about 100 nude photographs of Rebecca Wyatt. When he did, some of the photographs were marked with lewd comments or torn.
Wyatt also demanded that Johnson be arrested for destroying evidence. Wyatt said Johnson destroyed evidence when he threw away pieces of some of the torn photographs in a court trash can.
Authorities declined to pursue charges against Johnson.
stevelkinevil
06-29-2011, 21:39
Frankly from what I have read and been warned about in person this Wyatt guy is a turd. HOWEVER I don't think its fair to paint the man as a convict because he didn't want to hand his ex-wife a bunch of money. If anything just stick to painting him (and rightfully so) as a crook for stealing that customers money, and as a lousy businessman for all the reasons mentioned, leave the guys reluctance to hand over his money to an ex out of it.
I don't have a problem with not wanting to give his ex money. Nor do I dislike how Rich pushes the envelope with laws he doesn't agree with. If it weren't for Gunsmokes shady as hell business practices, AND the way they treated me (and others) in the store, I'd probably be a Rich Wyatt fan.
Byte Stryke
06-30-2011, 00:14
Frankly from what I have read and been warned about in person this Wyatt guy is a turd. HOWEVER I don't think its fair to paint the man as a convict because he didn't want to hand his ex-wife a bunch of money. If anything just stick to painting him (and rightfully so) as a crook for stealing that customers money, and as a lousy businessman for all the reasons mentioned, leave the guys reluctance to hand over his money to an ex out of it.
yeah, because its OK to disobey a legal judgement from a duly appointed Judge.
stevelkinevil
06-30-2011, 01:27
yeah, because its OK to disobey a legal judgement from a duly appointed Judge.
Yeah, on occasion. Listen man, I again am not arguing the point that the guy is in all likelihood a complete douche. However simply because a "duly appointed" judge says you must do something doesn't make it correct, especially in a civil matter. The man did not steal anything (in this case anyway) and I have a fundamental disagreement with a court ordering an adult to support another adult simply by virtue of that person having had a relationship with them. Child support? different matter entirely (although I still don't make my ex pay it after 8 years). My point being that lets not paint the man as a hardened criminal because he did not feel that another grown adult held claim to money he earned. On the other hand, ripping folks off for services not rendered or not properly rendered? THAT is a criminal act for which I am 100% on board with him being prosecuted for and it sounds like he makes a habit of it.
Edit* BTW byte I am in complete agreement with you on the "show". I cannot imagine a scenario where this does anything but serve to tarnish the image of gun owners as a whole.
flan7211
06-30-2011, 01:42
We as CO ar-15 members seem to have a similar voice on this thing. Dudely should listen as we are a pretty specific group. We're guys who care enough about guns and the 2A culture to be on a forum exclusively about guns. We're a good voice for Colorado gun owners as a whole. What about a reality show is going to further the seriousness of our cause? Fight the good fight with ideas not prime time child's play. Worse comes to worse, the bad things about this guy will get out to the joe smoe types and it will only further damage what gun owners and enthusiasts appear to be. [Rant2] rant finished.
BPTactical
06-30-2011, 07:25
We as CO ar-15 members seem to have a similar voice on this thing. Dudely should listen as we are a pretty specific group. We're guys who care enough about guns and the 2A culture to be on a forum exclusively about guns. We're a good voice for Colorado gun owners as a whole. What about a reality show is going to further the seriousness of our cause? Fight the good fight with ideas not prime time child's play. Worse comes to worse, the bad things about this guy will get out to the joe smoe types and it will only further damage what gun owners and enthusiasts appear to be. [Rant2] rant finished.
Very eloquent Flan.
Speaks volumes.
RMGOdirector
06-30-2011, 08:38
Am I (and RMGO) listening to you all? Yes, I am.
I am, after all, one of you (if the title of this website means anything).
I made the decision to involve RMGO in a TV Show, and so I will. I haven't had the same experiences (along the shady business practices line) that others have (and clearly, quite a few have).
I do, however, understand how many think Rich is egotistical. He is. I've told him that personally many times, and given him plenty of static about his "me" wall in his shop (with pictures of him with politicians and such).
I keep hearing the "This TV show could tarnish the reputation of gun owners."
But, it's happening whether this forum whines, kicks, moans and screams or not. No one here (including me) has any control over that.
I've played the "gotchya" game with the media a thousand times. I've learned, largely, to smell the ambush and avoid it. Put simply, when I get any sense of it, I ignore the media request (and we get literally hundreds of those a year).
After talking to the producers I found out that Sons of Guns was wildly popular, surprising many in the TV industry, which is why many production companies looked at starting new firearms-related shows.
I've only seen a few episodes of Sons of Guns. Not that exciting, but I know RMGO/NAGR members watched it in record numbers.
Stand firm for what you believe in, and ignore those who worry so much about all the other factors, especially public opinion.
Btw, I did read all of Corey's (not sure of his username) e-mail, but the snide nature of his response (that he's somehow offended by using a red font to respond to each and every point he made) indicated the tone had changed to a tit-for-tat, and I'm not interested in that kind of exchange.
I used the colored font mainly because my eyes are getting older (at 45 and I stare at a computer monitor all day) and I wanted to be respectful in answering each of your points/questions.
RMGOdirector
06-30-2011, 08:50
It's funny: some here criticize RMGO for tooting it's horn, and then others say "What does RMGO do?"
palepainter
06-30-2011, 09:03
It's funny: some here criticize RMGO for tooting it's horn, and then others say "What does RMGO do?"
I appreciate you stopping by an taking the heat.
It sounds like the production company will welcome the BS, drama and ego as a part of their spin on the industry. It may bring short term ratings, but in the long run, it will hurt the industry and the community, much like in the way OCC has stained the motorcycle industry. Back in the peak of the motorcycle industry, there were a ton of fruity tooty bike reality shows as well. I was involved with a couple at different times, they all required the same formula to suck in a curious audience.
The show may do better in a different market than Denver, with the reputation Gunsmoke has. They may also have some tradename issues with airing a TV show with the name Gunsmoke. :)
Byte Stryke
06-30-2011, 09:05
this reminds me of this fable "the Bird that flew south too late."
Once upon a time, there was a little bird who refused to fly south for the winter. His friends tried to convince him that winter was coming and he should go, but the little bird was adamant. Finally, his friends left on their journey, but the little bird remained behind. Pretty soon the weather turned bitter cold. The little bird began to shiver. After a while, he decided he had made a mistake, so he too headed south. But he was too late and the weather descended upon him. As he flew, ice formed on his wings. He grew more and more weary until finally he fell to earth in a cow pasture, freezing and exhausted. He was convinced he was going to die. As he lay there, freezing to death, a cow came by and crapped on him. The manure warmed his body and wings. The bird realized he would live. He was so happy, he began to sing. A cat was passing by and heard the singing. The cat dug into the manure, uncovered the bird and promptly ate him.
There are three morals to this story:
1. Not everyone who shits on you is necessarily your enemy.
2. Not everyone who gets you out of the shit is necessarily your friend.
3. And, if you're happy in your own pile of shit, keep your mouth shut.
So is Gunsmoke the Cow or the cat?
as far as "Sons of Guns"
I put it on par with OC Choppers and all of that other "Staged reality"
I refuse to "get into bed with" someone of less that strong moral character regardless of motivation.
"You are often judged by the company you keep."
funkymonkey1111
06-30-2011, 09:10
what i don't understand is what is the premise of the show? someone wanting to go into a gun shop that's overpriced, disorganized, dirty, and doesn't have much of a selection?
Aside from the reports about this Wyatt character, the gunsmith issues, etc., the store is frankly crap.
Shooter792
06-30-2011, 09:44
This will not be Sons of Guns..... This will not be Top Shot.
But as I have said its RICH WYATT and his shop not the the fact you want the exposure of a cable TV show.
Your loosing the support of some of the best gun rights people in the state. Some of your most loyal supporters without whom you would not be where you are today.
WHY!!!!
FOR WHAT!!!!
ROOT AROUND WITH THE PIGS AND YOUR GOING TO SMELL LIKE SHIT!!!!
I would go so far as to picket the business while they film.
I don't think I would be alone.
what i don't understand is what is the premise of the show? someone wanting to go into a gun shop that's overpriced, disorganized, dirty, and doesn't have much of a selection?
Aside from the reports about this Wyatt character, the gunsmith issues, etc., the store is frankly crap.
If this was a new TV show about Americans who love firearms and all aspects of the shooting sports, and focused ON those Americans and those sports, I think we'd all be all for it.
Tell the story about how and why our forefathers used and needed firearms, and why their ownership was written into our Constitution (2A).
Tell about all the uses for guns of all kinds, from plinking at cans with .22's to hunting the biggest game in North America.
Educate the public that guns are NOT just for killing other people with. Design a show around this premise.
Cover everything, from Boy Scout BB gun classes to trap shooting to CMP matches.
Interview collectors and find out why people love to collect and shoot old military rifles. Explain why some of us want/need more than one rifle or pistol, and why some of us have dozens of "the same one", such as Garands, M1 carbines, 1911's, Enfields, Mosins, shotguns, precision rifles, etc.
Go to machine gun shoots and cover those, and interview the people that go. Tell the world why we love to shoot them. Explain the rules of ownership and the costs involved.
Visit with CCW carriers and trainers, tell the story of why Americans feel the need to carry weapons to protect ourselves from the scum amongst us. Talk to people about the Open Carry movement, educate the public that it's NOT illegal to do it, and those that do are NOT "cowboys". Tell the stories from a real perspective.
Visit with REAL gunsmiths, not "personalities", and ask 'em what makes guns and ammo tick. Educate the world about all the various firearms and ammunition. Hell, they could do a whole episode just on reloading and bullet casting, and those of us that love to do it!
Visit with firearms manufacturers to show how they're made. Visit with custom gunmakers (again, NOT egotistical "personalities" who build wierd shit that scares people) and showcase the ART of fine firearms.
Cover some gun clubs and ranges, and how things are supposed to be done. The Four Rules, range ettiquete (sp?), etc. Show kids shooting and being trained, interview the kids for their viewpoints.
Show the trash dumps and Bubba Ranges where people shoot up trash and leave it, and educate people that this is NOT what our sport is about, and these are NOT responsible gun owners. Turn the spotlight on the clowns, and maybe those who ARE those clowns or know them will change their ways a little. Nobody really wants to be known as a dickhead.
And of course, a major theme of the show should be telling the story of the ongoing struggle to KEEP our rights of gun ownership, and the pursuit of the sports we love and enjoy. And our rights to carry weapons and defend ourselves, our families, and each other from the criminals that infest our society and seek to victimize us. Turn the spotlight on those in Washington who endeavor to strip our firearms and our rights away from us, go interview them and ask them WHY? We know who most of them are, the rest of America needs to know also!
We could build on this list for days, but I think I've made the point.
I don't know, but I think a new series COULD be a good thing, if it was done right. But dragging in assholes like Wyatt to be "personalities" to speak for us ain't gonna cut it.
Byte Stryke
06-30-2011, 09:50
If this was a new TV show about Americans who love firearms and all aspects of the shooting sports, and focused ON those Americans and those sports, I think we'd all be all for it.
Tell the story about how and why our forefathers used and needed firearms, and why their ownership was written into our Constitution (2A).
Tell about all the uses for guns of all kinds, from plinking at cans with .22's to hunting the biggest game in North America.
Educate the public that guns are NOT just for killing other people with. Design a show around this premise.
Cover everything, from Boy Scout BB gun classes to trap shooting to CMP matches.
Interview collectors and find out why people love to collect and shoot old military rifles. Explain why some of us want/need more than one rifle or pistol, and why some of us have dozens of "the same one", such as Garands, M1 carbines, 1911's, Enfields, Mosins, shotguns, precision rifles, etc.
Go to machine gun shoots and cover those, and interview the people that go. Tell the world why we love to shoot them. Explain the rules of ownership and the costs involved.
Visit with CCW carriers and trainers, tell the story of why Americans feel the need to carry weapons to protect ourselves from the scum amongst us. Talk to people about the Open Carry movement, educate the public that it's NOT illegal to do it, and those that do are NOT "cowboys". Tell the stories from a real perspective.
Visit with REAL gunsmiths, not "personalities", and ask 'em what makes guns and ammo tick. Educate the world about all the various firearms and ammunition. Hell, they could do a whole episode just on reloading and bullet casting, and those of us that love to do it!
Visit with firearms manufacturers to show how they're made. Visit with custom gunmakers (again, NOT egotistical "personalities" who build wierd shit that scares people) and showcase the ART of fine firearms.
Cover some gun clubs and ranges, and how things are supposed to be done. The Four Rules, range ettiquete (sp?), etc. Show kids shooting and being trained, interview the kids for their viewpoints.
Show the trash dumps and Bubba Ranges where people shoot up trash and leave it, and educate people that this is NOT what our sport is about, and these are NOT responsible gun owners. Turn the spotlight on the clowns, and maybe those who ARE those clowns or know them will change their ways a little. Nobody really wants to be known as a dickhead.
And of course, a major theme of the show should be telling the story of the ongoing struggle to KEEP our rights of gun ownership, and the pursuit of the sports we love and enjoy. And our rights to carry weapons and defend ourselves, our families, and each other from the criminals that infest our society and seek to victimize us.
We could build on this list for days, but I think I've made the point.
I don't know, but I think a new series COULD be a good thing, if it was done right. But dragging in assholes like Wyatt to be "personalities" to speak for us ain't gonna cut it.
And I would nominate Rondog as spokesman
BPTactical
06-30-2011, 09:56
And I would nominate Rondog as spokesman
+1
Homerun RonDog
Nah, I nominate Ted Nugent to be the host, if we could calm him down a little.
Lex_Luthor
06-30-2011, 10:30
[Beer] to Rondog.
palepainter
06-30-2011, 10:33
Well said Rondog.
funkymonkey1111
06-30-2011, 10:34
Hickok45 would be a great host for Rondog's conceptual show. He's the anti-Wyatt--not a blowhard, but an excellent shooter with a good demeanor. Not a shyster or blowhard or pompous ass (e.g., the type of person RMGO is in bed with).
68Charger
06-30-2011, 10:35
I've played the "gotchya" game with the media a thousand times. I've learned, largely, to smell the ambush and avoid it. Put simply, when I get any sense of it, I ignore the media request (and we get literally hundreds of those a year).
After talking to the producers I found out that Sons of Guns was wildly popular, surprising many in the TV industry, which is why many production companies looked at starting new firearms-related shows.
Does it occur to anyone that this may or may not be their motive, depending on the production company? Are we sure their motive is not the 1st paragraph?
they'll get ratings & viewers even if it goes badly for gun owners, portraying them in a negative light by using a egotistical, possibly amoral (I've never had any dealings with him) "spokesperson"
Perhaps some at the production company would personally LIKE to see it go that way, so they cherry-picked shops with bad reputations?
CMP_5.56
06-30-2011, 10:37
It's funny: some here criticize RMGO for tooting it's horn, and then others say "What does RMGO do?"
I did say you as an individual never Nissan opportunity to root your own horn. Don't recall saying that about RMGO as an organization though.
If this was a new TV show about Americans who love firearms and all aspects of the shooting sports, and focused ON those Americans and those sports, I think we'd all be all for it.
Tell the story about how and why our forefathers used and needed firearms, and why their ownership was written into our Constitution (2A).
Tell about all the uses for guns of all kinds, from plinking at cans with .22's to hunting the biggest game in North America.
Educate the public that guns are NOT just for killing other people with. Design a show around this premise.
Cover everything, from Boy Scout BB gun classes to trap shooting to CMP matches.
Interview collectors and find out why people love to collect and shoot old military rifles. Explain why some of us want/need more than one rifle or pistol, and why some of us have dozens of "the same one", such as Garands, M1 carbines, 1911's, Enfields, Mosins, shotguns, precision rifles, etc.
Go to machine gun shoots and cover those, and interview the people that go. Tell the world why we love to shoot them. Explain the rules of ownership and the costs involved.
Visit with CCW carriers and trainers, tell the story of why Americans feel the need to carry weapons to protect ourselves from the scum amongst us. Talk to people about the Open Carry movement, educate the public that it's NOT illegal to do it, and those that do are NOT "cowboys". Tell the stories from a real perspective.
Visit with REAL gunsmiths, not "personalities", and ask 'em what makes guns and ammo tick. Educate the world about all the various firearms and ammunition. Hell, they could do a whole episode just on reloading and bullet casting, and those of us that love to do it!
Visit with firearms manufacturers to show how they're made. Visit with custom gunmakers (again, NOT egotistical "personalities" who build wierd shit that scares people) and showcase the ART of fine firearms.
Cover some gun clubs and ranges, and how things are supposed to be done. The Four Rules, range ettiquete (sp?), etc. Show kids shooting and being trained, interview the kids for their viewpoints.
Show the trash dumps and Bubba Ranges where people shoot up trash and leave it, and educate people that this is NOT what our sport is about, and these are NOT responsible gun owners. Turn the spotlight on the clowns, and maybe those who ARE those clowns or know them will change their ways a little. Nobody really wants to be known as a dickhead.
And of course, a major theme of the show should be telling the story of the ongoing struggle to KEEP our rights of gun ownership, and the pursuit of the sports we love and enjoy. And our rights to carry weapons and defend ourselves, our families, and each other from the criminals that infest our society and seek to victimize us. Turn the spotlight on those in Washington who endeavor to strip our firearms and our rights away from us, go interview them and ask them WHY? We know who most of them are, the rest of America needs to know also!
We could build on this list for days, but I think I've made the point.
I don't know, but I think a new series COULD be a good thing, if it was done right. But dragging in assholes like Wyatt to be "personalities" to speak for us ain't gonna cut it.
i offered to take to tv show to some range clean ups , let them in on the range recycling , and even offered to let them shoot my c&r guns . i also offered to help get vets, the bsa and some CoAr15 members involved ...then i went to gun smoke and now mister doom is involved .im sure im not a bad enough example of a gun owner so they wont call witch is good .after going to gun smoke and the countless doom emails from rmgo (asking for money in every one) id rather not be involved at all .
but if rondog or ted nugant were the spokesman id be all over it .
Sorry if I'm a little late to this rodeo but didn't someone try this same thing before at the Shootist? And if memory serves right it was boring as shit and got canned after like five episodes?
stevelkinevil
06-30-2011, 11:35
From what everyone is saying about this owner, I am highly suspicious of this choice of venue to say the least. There are several better more successful shops in the metro area sans the eccentric ownership and morality questions and I am quite sure they are aware of that. This pick is NOT accidental, they scouted out gun shops and most likely saw the "me" wall amongst other things and went with them for a reason.
"Me Wall"
http://www.gunsmokeguns.com/gallery.html
Bah, you guys want to hear something even more funny? There are talks going on with Dragonman to produce a TV reality show about HIS business... THAT should be fun.
I think what people miss is that TV shows are after a "personality" they specifically want controversy and controversial people. Rich certainly is a "personality" and doesn't seem to shrink from the lime light. The more controversial he is, the more likely the TV Producers will be to select him for the show.
Cameron
Rondog has the best idea I've ever heard for a show that would certainly shed the right light on gun owners. Maybe educate people and say give us a better reputation with those who pigeonhole gun owners as psychotic, nutty, and extremist right winging crackpots.
My brother had a similar experience, and I should have steered him away from Gunsmoke because I shipped my pistol via them when I moved back here from NY and Rich handled it well. But then upon picking it up I asked about possibly getting a new one (at the time I was torn between Sig and a new Gen4 Glock to replace my Gen2) and he and his "goons" shot me down at every corner stating how inferior Glock and Sig are to what they sell (mostly 1911s). Perhaps I wanted something a little different than my 1911, maybe I wanted a "tactical tupperware" gun (they actually used those words).
Well my brother wanted a Wilson Combat 1911 but not adequate funding yet, so he asked if they would hold the one they had for him, but asked him to do a $300 deposit. Well a week later, if that, he went to 5280 Armory and found the exact same gun for about $250 less. We went back to Rich and asked if he could refund the deposit (since bro didn't take ownership yet and all they had to do was put it back on the shelf) or match 5280's price. Neither happened, they wouldn't sway at all, and said they would keep the deposit and allow him to use to toward something else. "What other overpriced thing would I buy from them?" He asked me. In the end he went and did their $150 CCW class and sold the other to a friend who went with him and bought a Dan Wesson CCO from 5280 instead. We both disliked how they handled it, and granted they're not in the business to take deposits and turn them back around if the buyer finds a better deal, but they wouldn't even attempt to match, which shows that they really don't care about being competitive.
Side note: 5280 said if we find a better deal at Gunsmoke on something that if it's the exact same they will match or go better. I guess some stores want to increase business and compete. Can't wait until some of the better stores run Gunsmoke out of business.
Delfuego
06-30-2011, 14:44
Scumbag gun retailers! I cannot stand to even go into most retail gun stores. That's why I love co-ar15. Knowledgeable people, great deals, who needs a brand new gun any way? Please give me a "low round counter" from a nice person here please!
In any other industry this garbage would not fly...[Beer]
TwoSevenEcho
06-30-2011, 14:55
Couldn't of been said any better Rondog!
What a real POS Gunsmoke is. Thanks for everyones 2 cents here in saving me a trip to that shady godforsaken place.
Wow, this thread has gone into a rampage! I didn't know Gunsmoke from Adam but after all that I've read about him here I would be hard pressed to ever do business with them.
I have watched Sons of Guns and Top Shot, who is to say that the owner of Red Jacket isn't as much of an egotist as Wyatt? He seems that way to me. Sure, he knows his stuff but, frankly, he's kind of a dick too. Who's to say that that owner didn't have a bad rap in Louisiana and THEIR local forums were going bananas over him getting his own show? We still watch it.
So, a TV show in Denver about Gunsmoke doesn't bother me all too much. I suppose good for him, he'll make some great money if the show gets popular. Seeing his "me wall" as was posted earlier is a pretty good indication that he's unlikely to be some left wing nutbag who is going to put gun owners in a bad light, so I am not worried about that. Will there be "Jo-Bobs" coming in buying guns? Probably, that's good television, but the fact that he is a pretty horrible gun shop (apparently) doesn't mean that we'll soon see our gun rights disappear as a result.
As for RMGO supporting him, whatever. If I were to go through every single public figure that I support with a fine tooth comb it would be impossible to find one that agrees 100% with me on every topic - or me with them. Could there be a better RMGO? Sure, but there could be a better EVERYTHING so why get so bent out of shape over it?
I'm not saying that RMGO is right, but I'm not saying they are totally worth a crap because they went down this path. I hate the emails too, I can't stand the begging for money through fear mongering - but it's a non profit so I expect and ignore it.
So, for me, none of this is worth getting my blood pressure up over.
Shooter792
06-30-2011, 15:35
I got this in a personal email from Dudly Brown. This is what Dudly Brown is saying the extent of involvement with Gunsmoke is outside of him promoting the show via email.
We’ve made no deal with ANYONE. Rich wanted to contribute two handguns for our upcoming October banquet. No reason on earth to turn that down.
Then, we got a call from the production company, who contacted us because every time they did research about guns and gun issues in Colorado, RMGO (and myself) kept turning up.
RMGO agreed to let the pistol donation be filmed, and work with the production company to put people in touch with this show, so they could add to it.
Sorry for the colored font LOL. [ROFL1]
Who will contribute to the RMGO banquet in exchange for him refusing Rich Wyatt's donation.
Any shops want to donate a firearm, some training or all those out there who want to send a message and contribute a couple bucks? This is a non profit organization I would assume you could write it all off.
Here is his direct email. director@rmgo.org
Write him, ask him to refuse Rich Wyatt's donation and offer your contribution in exchange.
I got this in a personal email from Dudly Brown. This is what Dudly Brown is saying the extent of involvement with Gunsmoke is outside of him promoting the show via email.
We’ve made no deal with ANYONE. Rich wanted to contribute two handguns for our upcoming October banquet. No reason on earth to turn that down.
Then, we got a call from the production company, who contacted us because every time they did research about guns and gun issues in Colorado, RMGO (and myself) kept turning up.
RMGO agreed to let the pistol donation be filmed, and work with the production company to put people in touch with this show, so they could add to it.
Sorry for the colored font LOL. [ROFL1]
Who will contribute to the RMGO banquet in exchange for him refusing Rich Wyatt's donation.
Any shops want to donate a firearm, some training or all those out there who want to send a message and contribute a couple bucks? This is a non profit organization I would assume you could write it all off.
Here is his direct email. director@rmgo.org
Write him, ask him to refuse Rich Wyatt's donation and offer your contribution in exchange.
I'm in for $50...
DUMP WYATT
Get Alan of Machine gun tours.
I *might* take you seriously
DUMP WYATT
Get Alan of Machine gun tours.
I *might* take you seriously
Yep, Machine gun tours was the one I was thinking of also.
Shooter792
06-30-2011, 16:49
Yep, Machine gun tours was the one I was thinking of also.
Call them if you know them.......
Get them involved. Ask them to be the collection point. I will drive over there tomorrow and drop my "two cents worth" (actually a lot more than two cents). I will Match TFOGGER's $50
My understanding is the value of Wyatt's contribution to be about $5000 (at least that's what Dudly stated).
I wish I had a personal relationship with them but I dont. I'm sure someone here does though.
Bah, you guys want to hear something even more funny? There are talks going on with Dragonman to produce a TV reality show about HIS business... THAT should be fun.
Ohsweetjeesuslordalmightyhavemercyonoursouls! What a disaster that would be. "Here kiddies, this is how you should treat people that are stupid enough to do business with you. Bone 'em and bone 'em hard, they deserve it! They're stupid, remember? Especially the ones that will do business with you through the mail or over the internet."
palepainter
06-30-2011, 17:08
I really just hope they can be as creative with the name of the show, as the creators of "Pawnstars" and Hardcore Pawn" can be. Perhaps we should be focusing on naming the show. Like.....hmmm.. let's see. "Show Me Your Walther PP" Or "Glock and Balls" I dunno, maybe all the effort and emotion could be applied positively here. :)
If this was a new TV show about Americans who love firearms and all aspects of the shooting sports, and focused ON those Americans and those sports, I think we'd all be all for it.
Tell the story about how and why our forefathers used and needed firearms, and why their ownership was written into our Constitution (2A).
Tell about all the uses for guns of all kinds, from plinking at cans with .22's to hunting the biggest game in North America.
Educate the public that guns are NOT just for killing other people with. Design a show around this premise.
Cover everything, from Boy Scout BB gun classes to trap shooting to CMP matches.
Interview collectors and find out why people love to collect and shoot old military rifles. Explain why some of us want/need more than one rifle or pistol, and why some of us have dozens of "the same one", such as Garands, M1 carbines, 1911's, Enfields, Mosins, shotguns, precision rifles, etc.
Go to machine gun shoots and cover those, and interview the people that go. Tell the world why we love to shoot them. Explain the rules of ownership and the costs involved.
Visit with CCW carriers and trainers, tell the story of why Americans feel the need to carry weapons to protect ourselves from the scum amongst us. Talk to people about the Open Carry movement, educate the public that it's NOT illegal to do it, and those that do are NOT "cowboys". Tell the stories from a real perspective.
Visit with REAL gunsmiths, not "personalities", and ask 'em what makes guns and ammo tick. Educate the world about all the various firearms and ammunition. Hell, they could do a whole episode just on reloading and bullet casting, and those of us that love to do it!
Visit with firearms manufacturers to show how they're made. Visit with custom gunmakers (again, NOT egotistical "personalities" who build wierd shit that scares people) and showcase the ART of fine firearms.
Cover some gun clubs and ranges, and how things are supposed to be done. The Four Rules, range ettiquete (sp?), etc. Show kids shooting and being trained, interview the kids for their viewpoints.
Show the trash dumps and Bubba Ranges where people shoot up trash and leave it, and educate people that this is NOT what our sport is about, and these are NOT responsible gun owners. Turn the spotlight on the clowns, and maybe those who ARE those clowns or know them will change their ways a little. Nobody really wants to be known as a dickhead.
And of course, a major theme of the show should be telling the story of the ongoing struggle to KEEP our rights of gun ownership, and the pursuit of the sports we love and enjoy. And our rights to carry weapons and defend ourselves, our families, and each other from the criminals that infest our society and seek to victimize us. Turn the spotlight on those in Washington who endeavor to strip our firearms and our rights away from us, go interview them and ask them WHY? We know who most of them are, the rest of America needs to know also!
We could build on this list for days, but I think I've made the point.
I don't know, but I think a new series COULD be a good thing, if it was done right. But dragging in assholes like Wyatt to be "personalities" to speak for us ain't gonna cut it.
I would watch that show for sure. Better than the other trash tv gun shows. Sounds like the one at Gunsmoke is a turd sandwich as well.
Driftwood
06-30-2011, 20:20
Dudley, just wanted to say thanks for taking the time and getting involved with this thread. Though I definitely could never support Wyatt or Gunsmoke, the fruit you and RMGO has produced is definitely good and productive over the years. In spite of what others may protest, I think you have presented your case on here well.
You need a new title... "The Voice of Reason" ... [LOL]
maybe when I hit 10,000 I will ask for that!
maybe when I hit 10,000 I will ask for that!
You just might be after this thread...........[ROFL1][ROFL3] I have no issues with RMGO, you guys are doing the best you can. However, when it comes to Gunsmoke, I must side with the majority here.
RMGOdirector
07-01-2011, 09:04
Driftwood, thank you. You are kind.
Off the board, I've gotten dozens of e-mails from people who say much the same.
Those kind of comments makes what I do (every day, 24/7/365, often at the expense of my family) worth it.
I know the guys at Machine Gun Tours. Yep, they'd be great -- but I'm not the person you need to convince.
Go ahead and buy the Production company who's making the film, then you can choose your tv star.
Actually, that wouldn't even work. It's a [as yet unnamed] cable channel.
ZombieKiller25
07-01-2011, 09:35
Congrats Dudley for siding with one of the worst companies here. Doesn't matter if he bought you off by buying your lifetime membership, his shop and personality are still horrible.
You'll never see another dime from me. Your 10's of thousands of supporters is now down a couple due to your poor decisions. Hope it was worth it for you!
Congrats Dudley for siding with one of the worst companies here. Doesn't matter if he bought you off by buying your lifetime membership, his shop and personality are still horrible.
You'll never see another dime from me. Your 10's of thousands of supporters is now down a couple due to your poor decisions. Hope it was worth it for you!
Bad judgement and associates is what eventually was the final push to decide NOT to join RMGO. If Dudley is making friends with guys like this, and letting these kinds of people, business owners, and gun owners it makes me wonder who else he'd let join the cause and help to "fight the good fight." I don't want Rich Wyatt taking his ideas to our lawmakers and representing the gun public with his terrible business practices. I guess Dudley never was informed of the old adage "Guilty by association." Any law enforcement or legal beagle will tell you, 75% of who you are is influenced by the company you keep.
If Dudley is making friends with guys like this, and letting these kinds of people, business owners, and gun owners it makes me wonder who else he'd let join the cause and help to "fight the good fight."
I can see your point absolutely Ronin. But on the other hand how many low life scumbags contribute to the National Cancer Association? Should they then be demonized for that? Hey, I don't know Rich Wyatt, but by all appearances he seems to be a bad business person - but if his $5K is helping pave the way for me to open carry in Denver then do I really care? This is my opinion of course, and I don't pass judgement on yours but - for me - a $5K donation to Breast Cancer Research given by a mob boss who killed 20 people is still a donation to fight breast cancer.
I don't want Rich Wyatt taking his ideas to our lawmakers and representing the gun public with his terrible business practices.
I don't see how he'll do this because of RMGO. It appears to me that whether RMGO is involved or not, this Wyatt character has been hobnobbing with politicians for some time all on his own (judging by his "me wall").
Also, think on the flip side of things. If this show airs (and that is still an unknown at this point), and this douche brands his company name on firearms from clients then how fast do you think people in Colorado will be to NOT bring their weapons to him? Blessing in disguise I say - if his business practice is slipshod then it'll be on national television and he'll have a business no more. Seems like a good thing to me.
I guess Dudley never was informed of the old adage "Guilty by association." Any law enforcement or legal beagle will tell you, 75% of who you are is influenced by the company you keep.
I agree to a large extent (and obviously disagree by a small one). If Dudley is pal'ing around with Wyatt and is making him his right arm in his political dealings then we have a problem. I don't get the sense that this is the case, I feel like Wyatt is just another contributor - and someone who does appear to be in political circles and if you know this business (and I do a lot in this business) then you know that a lot of politicians are dirty somehow.
I'm not blowing RMGO's horn here, but I think this whole thread has gone crazy with how RMGO is guilty by association and thus the scourge of the earth. Rich Wyatt appears to be someone I wouldn't want to do business with but RMGO didn't create him or the show. RMGO's got it's issues, no disputing that, but without someone LIKE THEM we, as gun owners, have a bit smaller voice in Colorado.
I respect the fact that Dudley came here and defended his decision. Right or wrong he did that and I give him credit. I don't see Rich Wyatt on here doing that (could you imagine THAT thread?).
Molon_Labe-1775
07-01-2011, 11:09
DUMP WYATT
Get Alan of Machine gun tours.
I *might* take you seriously
I like RMGO and NAGR, I'm a member. But I could agree more about this.
Wyatt is a tool of the highest order, that being said I'm not going to dump someone fighting for one of our most important rights we have as citizens of this country. I will however never watch a show were GunSmoke or Wyatt is a part of.
Delfuego
07-01-2011, 12:01
+ 1 for Alan! He could make it a lot more interesting with all the class III toys of his.
CMP_5.56
07-01-2011, 12:58
I can see your point absolutely Ronin. But on the other hand how many low life scumbags contribute to the National Cancer Association? Should they then be demonized for that? Hey, I don't know Rich Wyatt, but by all appearances he seems to be a bad business person - but if his $5K is helping pave the way for me to open carry in Denver then do I really care? This is my opinion of course, and I don't pass judgement on yours but - for me - a $5K donation to Breast Cancer Research given by a mob boss who killed 20 people is still a donation to fight breast cancer
If a large organization like National Cancer Society takes a scumbags money, then so be it. But this situation is more like the National Cancer Society siding with asbestos manufacturing companies for a televised marathon! It's one thing to take anyones donations, and quite another to take a very public stand next to someone who is known for poor business practices and to be honest has been stung by investigative journalists, showing publicly that he is an outright thief!
But this situation is more like the National Cancer Society siding with asbestos manufacturing companies for a televised marathon!
I don't totally agree but I do completely see your point.
hollohas
07-05-2011, 10:20
If this was a new TV show about Americans who love firearms and all aspects of the shooting sports, and focused ON those Americans and those sports, I think we'd all be all for it.
Tell the story about how and why our forefathers used and needed firearms, and why their ownership was written into our Constitution (2A).
Tell about all the uses for guns of all kinds, from plinking at cans with .22's to hunting the biggest game in North America.
Educate the public that guns are NOT just for killing other people with. Design a show around this premise.
Cover everything, from Boy Scout BB gun classes to trap shooting to CMP matches.
Interview collectors and find out why people love to collect and shoot old military rifles. Explain why some of us want/need more than one rifle or pistol, and why some of us have dozens of "the same one", such as Garands, M1 carbines, 1911's, Enfields, Mosins, shotguns, precision rifles, etc.
Go to machine gun shoots and cover those, and interview the people that go. Tell the world why we love to shoot them. Explain the rules of ownership and the costs involved.
Visit with CCW carriers and trainers, tell the story of why Americans feel the need to carry weapons to protect ourselves from the scum amongst us. Talk to people about the Open Carry movement, educate the public that it's NOT illegal to do it, and those that do are NOT "cowboys". Tell the stories from a real perspective.
Visit with REAL gunsmiths, not "personalities", and ask 'em what makes guns and ammo tick. Educate the world about all the various firearms and ammunition. Hell, they could do a whole episode just on reloading and bullet casting, and those of us that love to do it!
Visit with firearms manufacturers to show how they're made. Visit with custom gunmakers (again, NOT egotistical "personalities" who build wierd shit that scares people) and showcase the ART of fine firearms.
Cover some gun clubs and ranges, and how things are supposed to be done. The Four Rules, range ettiquete (sp?), etc. Show kids shooting and being trained, interview the kids for their viewpoints.
Show the trash dumps and Bubba Ranges where people shoot up trash and leave it, and educate people that this is NOT what our sport is about, and these are NOT responsible gun owners. Turn the spotlight on the clowns, and maybe those who ARE those clowns or know them will change their ways a little. Nobody really wants to be known as a dickhead.
And of course, a major theme of the show should be telling the story of the ongoing struggle to KEEP our rights of gun ownership, and the pursuit of the sports we love and enjoy. And our rights to carry weapons and defend ourselves, our families, and each other from the criminals that infest our society and seek to victimize us. Turn the spotlight on those in Washington who endeavor to strip our firearms and our rights away from us, go interview them and ask them WHY? We know who most of them are, the rest of America needs to know also!
We could build on this list for days, but I think I've made the point.
I don't know, but I think a new series COULD be a good thing, if it was done right. But dragging in assholes like Wyatt to be "personalities" to speak for us ain't gonna cut it.
This show is already on TV. It's called Shooting USA and covers ALL of what you just suggested. It is on Outdoor Channel on Wednesdays. Other shows on that channel on the same day that cover these topics in depth as well:
-Shooting Gallery
-The Gun Nuts
-Midway USA's Gun Stories
-American Rifleman TV
-The Best Defense
History, CCW, self defense, legislation, laws, legal advice, competitions, ranges, training facilities, factory visits, reloading tips, gun smithing tips, machine gun shoots, trade shows, new products...I have seen it all on these shows.
There you have 3.5 hours of shooting TV that actually loves and promotes our firearms passion. None of it is so-called "reality" tv.
I can see your point absolutely Ronin. But on the other hand how many low life scumbags contribute to the National Cancer Association? Should they then be demonized for that? Hey, I don't know Rich Wyatt, but by all appearances he seems to be a bad business person - but if his $5K is helping pave the way for me to open carry in Denver then do I really care? This is my opinion of course, and I don't pass judgement on yours but - for me - a $5K donation to Breast Cancer Research given by a mob boss who killed 20 people is still a donation to fight breast cancer.
So if you had a non-profit and the head of a major drug cartel donated $10K, you'd accept it? Even if the money came stained with the blood of innocent people? I hate to say it, but that's how politicians lose elections and nearly end up in prison. I'm not saying Wyatt is as bad as a drug cartel boss, but any association with him by RMGO can't put them in a good light. If I hung out with nothing but drug dealers and criminals I would automatically be labeled a criminal/drug dealer. I'm not saying RMGO should be super nit-picky but jeez, letting a guy like Wyatt be apart of their org and representing them is not good for business. It's like I learned in the Army, you may not be a spokesperson for the Army, but every time you wear the uniform you are representing us and every time you do something bad you shine a bad light on the Army.
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 11:05
RMGO has refused the membership of quite a few scumbags, some of them anti-gun politicians (who thought they could buy RMGO's support).
There are also QUITE a few number of people who have joined RMGO whom I vehemently disagree on many issues, and I have to shut my big pie hole, since they joined RMGO to defend their gun rights. I know of one particular.... er, transsexual. No, not my cup of tea, but I'm not inviting he or she (not sure how to refer to the person) into my living room to lecture my children.
This is the last time I'll say it, as I've said it before: I do not share all of your views of Rich Wyatt. I know Rich Wyatt, and though there are things about him I don't like, I'm guessing the feeling is mutual.
Rich doesn't define RMGO. Nor does a TV show. If you don't like the show, don't watch (i.e. vote with your feet).
It's not my place to stand and defend him, though. I'll let him do that, and sink or swim on his own merits.
It's my job to stand up on the gun issue in the best way possible, and since this show was NOT of my choosing.
If you don't want to be a member of RMGO because of this, you might as well quit now, as I'm sure there will be something else to offend you in the future (if I haven't already offended you with my antics in the past).
Seriously, people. Want me to interview your neighbors before RMGO decides if you can be a member??
Rich doesn't define RMGO.
But his conduct shed's a bad light on RMGO... I would love to support you and your organization for all the good it does and represents for 2A and Gun Owners, not just here in CO but all over the country. However, I will remind you that it's not 100% what you do, it's what some of those members do that could hurt the reputation. If someone like Larry Phillips, Jr. and Emil Mătăsăreanu, the men that committed the North Hollywood Shootout back in 1997, was a member of RMGO and did something like that believe me the left would have a field day and rally against your cause. I know that's an extreme example, but it has happened before and will happen again, it's just a matter of time before some nut, who just so happens to be a member of RMGO, NRA, [insert pro-gun group here], does something to bring shame to their organization. You can say this is a rare case and not all of our members are like that, but the general public (Read: Sheeple) may not see it like that and just brand everyone as "that guy."
I'm not saying be a jerk and carefully screen folks that intend to join, I'm saying the ones with a bad reputation and near unforgivable faults should be dismissed or denied. All dealings with Mr. Wyatt seem to be negative, and to the uneducated who wants to join RMGO will see him and think "Well if this org supports him and allows him in, I don't really think I want to support them." Just my .02, I've seen how one bad apple can ruin the whole lot.
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 12:41
Apparently the American public disagrees with you (that those shows are enough), since all of the shows combined don't bring in 1/10th the viewership of Sons of Guns (which, I understand, is why this TV show is being produced).
Personally, I don't watch much TV at all (outside of Hockey, Top Gear and Larry Vickers' program), so I'm not a good test case.
Whether you like those TV shows or not, you don't get a vote (nor do I) as to whether Gurney Productions is doing this TV show. They are.
That's the wonderful thing about America -- you aren't forced to watch anything.
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 12:44
All dealings with Mr. Wyatt seem to be negative, and to the uneducated who wants to join RMGO will see him and think "Well if this org supports him and allows him in, I don't really think I want to support them." Just my .02, I've seen how one bad apple can ruin the whole lot.
As I've stated earlier, Wyatt has quite a number of people who like him and buy only from him. Many of them have contacted me about the TV show, saying "atta boy Rich".
As I've stated earlier, Wyatt has quite a number of people who like him and buy only from him. Many of them have contacted me about the TV show, saying "atta boy Rich".
Dudley, not big on the debate huh? I've met people who were loyal and avid customers of Gunsmoke (and conversely Rich) and the first few times they did business there they were pleased, until they found that they 1- paid way too much for the same firearm that could have been purchased elsewhere for less, 2- discovered his bad business habits and he and his employee's tendency to talk condescendingly toward customers, even knowledgeable ones (some of the experiences I've had as well). If you want to be friends with him, go for it, but don't cry to me when RMGO gets pegged with bad press on account of Rich Wyatt.
Just looked on BBB's site at Gunsmoke, shocking A+ given for them... odd I would say.
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 13:11
I love to debate, but I think we've all established our position.
Plus, I'm about ready to go to NYC to go to the UN Arms Trade Treaty. Blech.
hollohas
07-05-2011, 13:35
Apparently the American public disagrees with you (that those shows are enough), since all of the shows combined don't bring in 1/10th the viewership of Sons of Guns (which, I understand, is why this TV show is being produced).
Personally, I don't watch much TV at all (outside of Hockey, Top Gear and Larry Vickers' program), so I'm not a good test case.
Whether you like those TV shows or not, you don't get a vote (nor do I) as to whether Gurney Productions is doing this TV show. They are.
That's the wonderful thing about America -- you aren't forced to watch anything.
Hum, is this in response to me mentioning the good firearms related shows on Outdoor Channel? I'll assume it was...
I didn't say they were enough...in fact I wish there were more like them as well as on larger networks. I didn't complain about this new show or you supporting it. Instead, I mentioned those other shows because they fit the bill for the type of show some here expressed interest in having. I mentioned them because in my view they are good gun tv and more people should watch them.
Many people here will not support this new show, will not support Wyatt and some won't support your organization based on their perception of your alignment with the two, that is up to them. I'll reserve my judgement. I will however help steer people that are interested in watching and supporting great gun tv in the right direction. No "reality", no "casting", just good gun tv.
PS Dudley - On a personal note, I was a RMGO supporter (I think my membership has expired and not by accident) but I really would like to suggest new tactics. I don't want to get in a pissing contest I simply want to give you my opinion as to how I think you can win more support. It is worth what you paid for it...
The thing that comes to the front of your emails is the request for money and the scare tactics to get it. I don't know what you do to protect the 2A because you don't give many specifics in your emails. One email comes to mind. You once mentioned the BATF wanted to take away our shotguns (which we have all heard about). The way you suggested we help stop it? To buy a book. You are using our money to fight the good fight and the best thing you can come up with is for us to buy a book?
Not once in the email did you give any sources, links or actual information. I suggest you add these things to your emails. Is there a bill being introduced somewhere? A memo from the BATF? Quotes? Newspaper articles? Put that info in your emails. You make us believe you have inside info...so why not share it with us? How are you going to use our donations and proceeds from the book to fight it? I know about this issue because I did MY OWN research. But you supplied me with NOTHING to fight it...no info, no facts, you just want money so YOU can fight it. Get us involved to better our odds. Tell us what specifically you are doing instead of just "RMGO is fighting this and we need your money." Your email updates are too vague.
Tell us who to write letters to. Tell us some facts or where to find them so we can form intelligent arguments when writing our representatives. Give us the tools to be members in the fight. You are the coach but you aren't helping us players get off the sidelines and actually contribute anything more than money. If you gave me real tangible information I would certainly join again and donate more. I'm not from Missouri but you really need to show me more.
hollohas
07-05-2011, 13:42
I'm about ready to go to NYC to go to the UN Arms Trade Treaty. Blech.
Ah, there we go. Some information about what RMGO is doing.
Are you going on a fact finding mission? Are you participating in some way? Are you meeting with any important people while there? Can we help by contacting anyone? This is the type of info I suggested you give us in my previous post...
How about an email telling what you learned and what you accomplished when you get back instead of just an email saying "The UN wants to take your guns. RMGO is fighting it and we need your support." We all know that already...
Am I asking for too much from an organization who would like my money and support?
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 13:51
I posted a "What RMGO does" on this forum, in a separate thread.
RMGO did a series of e-mails about the Shotgun ban, as well as the multiple rifle reporting requirements, telling people to contact the BATFE during the comment period.
Don't mind suggestions about how to do things. However, if they include "don't ask for money and you'll get more of mine" I will politely tell people "Great idea, but it doesn't work."
To your specific suggestion about including backup documentation: there are two problems with that.
1. If you provide a link on the issue, you lose people. They get lost in the internet, following a bunny trail. Simple actions make for more actions. Wish that weren't the case, but try making your living on internet marketing by going against the tide, and you'll be the hungry man living in a refrigerator box under a bypass.
2. Often in political issues there IS no documentation.
Case in point: prior to the 2004 sunset of the AW ban, the NRA was cutting a deal (in a desperate attempt to pass the Lawsuits Liability bill) that would have re-authorized the Assault Weapons ban.
They weren't dumb enough to write out the deal, and were VERY careful to cover their tracks. Most politicians, and the political class, are, especially when selling out their base.
So, by the time most political information has been fleshed out and proven beyond a reasonable doubt, it is too late. The fix is in (can you say "Brady Law"???).
This isn't a crackpot JBS theory on how politics works.
It's a first hand, quarter of a century observation, with real world experience. I didn't learn it on Fox news, I've lived it.
But, I'll agree with you that we should have followed up with more documentation. I plead "mea culpa" on that one.
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 13:54
Ah, there we go. Some information about what RMGO is doing.
Are you going on a fact finding mission? Are you participating in some way? Are you meeting with any important people while there? Can we help by contacting anyone? This is the type of info I suggested you give us in my previous post...
How about an email telling what you learned and what you accomplished when you get back instead of just an email saying "The UN wants to take your guns. RMGO is fighting it and we need your support." We all know that already...
Am I asking for too much from an organization who would like my money and support?
That's what RMGO's e-mail list is for. This isn't our forum, after all.
I may not "learn" anything. My goal is to produce a short video, with interviews, on this very issue.
The producer of the video is the producer of this film (which, incidentally, is coming out in September): UN Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48fRmFapblI)
HBARleatherneck
07-05-2011, 13:57
i think the RMGO threads have run their course. how about locking them now?
hollohas
07-05-2011, 14:03
RMGO-
Fair enough, I appreciate the insight on finer points of politics.
Personally it doesn't bother me that you ask for money. I understand you need it and that's how you get it. I just want more info to accompany the request so I know my money would be well spent. Donations are an investment afterall...
I am on the email list and READ every one that comes through. My suggestion for an update after the UN meeting was for an email update.
Give us a little more info and facts and I personally am ready to renew my membership and donations. I'll be watching for the video.
kittrich
08-01-2011, 09:53
RMGO (AKA Dudley) has never done anything but fund Dudley. What a farce!! He gets in under the non profit skirt tail and pays himself for writing email campaigns. He did not like my attitude so I could not be on the RMGO site. So much for freedom huh Dudley?? Seems more like a dictatorship. Watch your mouth when you respond to this post. You will be judged
RMGOdirector
08-01-2011, 10:18
Since I don't know who you are I can't speak to anything specific.
Haven't done anything? I've posted another thread about what RMGO does. If you call the pay RMGO gives me for 13-15 hours a day (and more during campaign/legislative season) FUNDING, you must work for pennies/hour.
I am not taking sides on this. I am just playing devils advocate. Since I am known as the "evil liberal" to some of you[ROFL1] might as well[Beer]
First to disclaim, I am a member of RMGO. That makes no bearing on this post. I just wanted to be honest.
As to this whole issue...
If RMGO is not the party involved with picking the shop that the TV show uses. Then I would hope that RMGO is going to use this opportunity to play ref so to speak. Apparently the TV show chose this shop. Perhaps because they know this place has a bad rep. Perhaps because they got lobbied by someone somewhere and since they don't know about guns..... they went with it. Now, I would hope that RMGO would make the best of a bad situation. Kind of like when we all have to be the sober driver taking care of our drunk idiot friends. So unless we all want there to be no sober driver then I think RMGO did the right thing by perhaps trying to steer the ship away from the rocks. Lord knows I have had to do this far too many times in my personal life too.
Basically I hope RMGO will be the proper baby sitter to this cluster f.
I could be wrong......... but I hope this was the idea.
I am not taking sides on this. I am just playing devils advocate. Since I am known as the "evil liberal" to some of you[ROFL1] might as well[Beer]
First to disclaim, I am a member of RMGO. That makes no bearing on this post. I just wanted to be honest.
As to this whole issue...
If RMGO is not the party involved with picking the shop that the TV show uses. Then I would hope that RMGO is going to use this opportunity to play ref so to speak. Apparently the TV show chose this shop. Perhaps because they know this place has a bad rep. Perhaps because they got lobbied by someone somewhere and since they don't know about guns..... they went with it. Now, I would hope that RMGO would make the best of a bad situation. Kind of like when we all have to be the sober driver taking care of our drunk idiot friends. So unless we all want there to be no sober driver then I think RMGO did the right thing by perhaps trying to steer the ship away from the rocks. Lord knows I have had to do this far too many times in my personal life too.
Basically I hope RMGO will be the proper baby sitter to this cluster f.
I could be wrong......... but I hope this was the idea.
If it's reality TV not sure how one can steer a ship away from the rocks, I guess if you get it in the contract that RMGO has some editorial rights to the production- highly doubtful. The producers will probably let everything in and spin it to where it's exciting and entertaining- regardless of who looks like an idiot or a genius. Remember Top Shot SSN2? They made Gorge out to look like a complete asshole, so it should come as no surprise that contextually you can really edit things to make anything look like it's spun a certain way.
Living on the western slope,I'm not familar with the Gunsmoke gun shop.
After reading you guys posts thats maybe a good thing.Its made me curious enough to watch an episode of the show. All in all, its been a very entertaining thread.[Pop][Pop]
n8tive97
08-01-2011, 12:54
Living on the western slope,I'm not familar with the Gunsmoke gun shop.
After reading you guys posts thats maybe a good thing.Its made me curious enough to watch an episode of the show. All in all, its been a very entertaining thread.[Pop][Pop]
Did they decide on a name of the show yet? What's it even called?
Bailey Guns
08-01-2011, 12:54
Well...
At least Wyatt/Gunsmoke can't f**k you through the TV. Though he may be working on a way to do that.
Did they decide on a name of the show yet? What's it even called?
I don't know. hope someone has that info.[Beer]
Well...
At least Wyatt/Gunsmoke can't f**k you through the TV. Though he may be working on a way to do that.
Where is Matt Dillon???? never a marshall around when you need one.[ROFL1]
There are a few people on this board that I have a real respect for. Considering this thread has gone three pages and the Gun Smoke thread (in the Dealer and Range Review) has gone on for two, I'd say the people have voted with their feet.
I applaud the actions of Mr. Brown to defend gun owner's rights but I do not agree with some of his choices of association.
For what it's worth, I started following Mr. Brown and RMGO while listening to Norm Resnick's radio shows back '97.
Wow, this thread is still alive and kicking? It would seem that about 50% of the folks on here are anti RMGO and the rest are either indifferent or in support of them. If I believed my RMGO subscription was doing nothing more than padding pockets I would agree with the first 50%, however I see RMGO's name pop up in the news enough to know that something IS being done.
If it does nothing more than pay Dudley's salary and his job is to lobby for gun rights, then I support that. If Dudley makes $0.03 per hour and the money is going into lobbying for gun rights then I support THAT too.
I can't even count the not-for-profit groups that squander the donations into salaries, big getaways and all of that - but I give to them anyway. Remember the Red Cross? Well, I still believe in them because they are doing good, despite their problems.
I don't know, this is a lot to do about what amounts to a couple bucks a month. I pay MUCH more for a dinner out than I give to RMGO in one year so I'm not going to sweat it as long as I continue to see results. Yes, the fear mongering sucks, but that is the non profit game folks!
As for Wyatt and Gunsmoke. Ok, they suck. Sons of Guns sucks too (IMHO). Half of the crap on TV sucks in general. Just because Dudley plugged them doesn't mean my donations are funding the show, so honestly I don't really care since I'm not going to watch the show anyway.
I'm not an RMGO junkie, I'm just looking at this whole thing as such an insignificant drop in the bucket that 15 pages of thread to piss about it seems such a waste of time.
I wish we had a "like" feature on the board. I agree with Ranger.
I wish we had a "like" feature on the board. I agree with Ranger.
Wow, really Nynco? Awesome, glad we can find common ground buddy! [Beer]
well I have decided I hope the show makes a ton of money, RMGO gets a ton of it to help support our gun rights, wyatt gets enough to retire and lets someone else manage gunsmoke where they will treat everyone good and take care of the customers.
I would consider that a win-win as long as they do a good job showing responsible gun owners.
Wow, really Nynco? Awesome, glad we can find common ground buddy! [Beer]
I call em as I see em. We may not agree all the time. But I would rather search for and acknowledge common ground than, adversarial disagreement alone.[Beer]
RMGOdirector
10-06-2011, 10:49
RMGO isn't getting one cent from a TV show.
The e-mail we sent out is the extent of our involvement with the show. Hope it turns out well, but never underestimate the ability of Hollywood to add some negative drama to it.
SuperiorDG
10-06-2011, 11:25
FYI Fox 31 has had a truck and crew over there all morning. I assume they are doing a news story to air soon.
RMGO isn't getting one cent from a TV show.
The e-mail we sent out is the extent of our involvement with the show. Hope it turns out well, but never underestimate the ability of Hollywood to add some negative drama to it.
Well they are doing it about Wyatt and the bimbo squad. Don't think Holywood is going to have to do to much in the way of twisting this against gun owners.
Wow, I thought this topic was dead...
Wow, I thought this topic was dead...me too ,ok who farted [Gas2]....oops i mean who brought it back up [ROFL1]
me too ,ok who farted [Gas2]....oops i mean who brought it back up [ROFL1]
That would be our gracious RMGO director.
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