View Full Version : What RMGO does?
RMGOdirector
06-30-2011, 09:06
It's funny: some here criticize RMGO for tooting it's horn, and then others say "What does RMGO do?"
So, yes, we'll toot our horn. And why shouldn't we? I'm damn proud of the hard work of members and staff for RMGO.
An AR-15 forum should be as well: it's no coincidence that RMGO's main logo is an AR-15. We think it symbolizes real freedom (not just freedom for shotgun shooters or more politically correct firearms).
So let's just make a few points:
Do you like carrying concealed in your church, bar or restaurant that serves alcohol, public sporting event, etc? Thank RMGO -- we had to fight against "You-know-who" to make that a part of Colorado law.
Do you like having your name entered into CCIC in the Permit Holder Database (i.e. dangerous persons)? If not, thank RMGO (and get involved with what we're doing in the next few days, which I'll post up). When RMGO brought this up in 2003, CSSA and NRA pooh-poohed the issue, saying we were being paranoid. Now, at least the NRA is onboard with us (CSSA is largely dead now, which is probably a good thing).
Do you want Aurora PD arresting people for guns in their car (which state law says is ENTIRELY legal)? Thank RMGO (and John Sternberg, who drove this bus) for completely revamping Aurora's illegal ordinance and even changing the Aurora Police Department's training materials on guns in cars.
CSU carry? Thank RMGO.
McDonald Supreme Court Case? RMGO filed a brief in that case, and was even quoted by Alito.
Happy we have hardcore pro-gun legislators in the Colorado House and Senate?
There's only one reason weak-kneed Republicans have not joined with Gov. Hickenlooper to enact new gun controls, and that's because of the threat of being unelected by RMGO -- and the stiff-spined leadership of the pro-gun conservatives RMGO got into office (Sens. Brophy, Harvey, Kopp, Renfroe, Lambert, Lundberg, Grantham, and Reps. Holbert, Szabo, et al).
In fact, ask one of those legislators who they trust on gun issues. I know what they'll say, because if you drive around the Capitol during the session and look at member's cars, you'll see one of our decals on most of the pro-gun legislators' vehicles or on their laptop computers. Many were members before they ran for the legislature (and we recruited them).
Do you like the idea of Constitutional Carry (i.e. no permit needed carry for law-abiding citizens, which used to be called a "Vermont Law")?
If so, no other group is working for it. No one.
We could go on and on. But you get the idea.
---------------------------------------------
Why are we tooting our own horn?
Because politics is a team sport. Lone-wolfing it can only get you so far. If that's what you want to do, go ahead, but don't be surprised when you don't get anything done.
co-ar15.com itself is a group of people, banding together with common interest.
RMGO just does it on a much bigger scale, and with a more specific purpose.
I'll guarantee you won't like SOMETHING we do at some point. We'll goof something up. But I can guarantee you we'll err on the side of freedom.
wctriumph
06-30-2011, 12:54
The House of Murphy is with you 100%. Proud to be a member of a truly effective organization that looks out for the working man's rights. Keep up the good fight and may God speed you to victory again and again.
Wayne, Susan and Sheelagh Murphy
God bless the RMGO
God bless America
I tried joining your organization. Dudley's business card was left on my windshield while parked at NAPA in Windsor. Your organization has a Windsor PO box. I didn't have a debit/credit card at that time to pay for a membership. I called and left numerous messages and emails concerning paying for a membership with cash, personal check, or money order (I live in Windsor, I could have dropped it in your PO box) My phone calls and emails were completely unanswered.
I gave up on joining your organization after that.
I'll stay an NRA member, I'm a little more important to them.
DSB OUTDOORS
06-30-2011, 20:29
RMGO! [Beer] [Marine]
Thank You!!
DSB
RMGOdirector
07-01-2011, 09:09
jmg8550, I do remember the complaint though still, to this day, I have no knowledge of how you fell through the cracks.
If it happened during a campaign season, it shouldn't be surprising (though I still do my best to make sure it doesn't happen).
The NRA has $370 million annually to hire staff to answer phones, and send you mountains of mail. But they have one lobbyist (a good guy, really) who covers 6-7 states, and truthfully, he's often forced to side with our opponents (the NRA endorsed hardcore lefty Betsy Markey in Colorado's 4th CD, over gun rights hero Cory Gardner).
If you think your money is better spent there, have at it, of course.
personally my money is spent on gas ,trash bags , ect to make a change in public option of the shooting community.
but i do have a question where does all the money go ???
honestly i do not see the need to throw tons of money at the problem of gun legislation unless your bribing people ? im sure there is at lest one gun owning lawyer that is down for the cause and if you were not constantly sending me doom email along with asking for a hand out (in a spam letter ) i might be willing to donate some time.also please dont say well we need the money for printing as im sure there is at least one printer who is down for the cause .
honestly it seems to me that rmgo , nra ect are just lining there pockets with our green backs by using fear as a tactic
although i do appreciate the work rmgo and the nra has done i just dont see the need for millions to filter through a non profit organization unless someone is making a profit .
RMGOdirector
07-01-2011, 10:39
You should cast a critical eye on non-profits.
RMGO is a very public entity. We file our 990 forms (where money is spent and raised), which you can view at guidestar.org for free.
We raise about $200,000 a year nowadays, with much of that going to postage. Mailing broad groups of like-minded people to tell them their elected official is a gun-grabbing scumbag isn't cheap, nor is the apparatus to get those written and out the door.
RMGO's size is now a bit inflated, since we share staff with NAGR (which is a much, much larger organization). So you'll see RMGO do things that NAGR has paid for.
Like any political lobby, it takes money to make changes. For one, the staff needs paid. And how effective can you be unless you have a LOT of people supporting you, so you have to solicit membership to A) pay the bills and B) convince politicians that you are a force to be reckoned with. $200K isn't much, but if you think about how well known RMGO is and their role in gun politics in Colorado then I think $200K is an impressive amount of money for that kind of exposure.
If you have ever worked in non profit (and I have) then you know that it really is all about money, it's what keeps things moving. I don't agree with everything Dudley and his group have to say but I agree with enough of it to support RMGO - the same way I support politicians who aren't 100% on my page. If I only supported groups that agreed 100% with me then I would end up supporting nobody!
Pick your battles - and for me fighting gun control is worth the fight. I hate a lot of what the NRA does and how they are run, but I'll support them because they have a massive voice in gun legislation. RMGO is a much smaller player, but still has a voice.
Like any political lobby, it takes money to make changes. For one, the staff needs paid. And how effective can you be unless you have a LOT of people supporting you, so you have to solicit membership to A) pay the bills and B) convince politicians that you are a force to be reckoned with. $200K isn't much, but if you think about how well known RMGO is and their role in gun politics in Colorado then I think $200K is an impressive amount of money for that kind of exposure.
you are correct ,thats not a lot and that is a lot of exposure , or as some would say thats a good ban for the buck .
If you have ever worked in non profit (and I have) then you know that it really is all about money, it's what keeps things moving. I don't agree with everything Dudley and his group have to say but I agree with enough of it to support RMGO - the same way I support politicians who aren't 100% on my page. If I only supported groups that agreed 100% with me then I would end up supporting nobody!
yes i have done a ton of non profit work (maybe thats why im so broke ) and yes it takes money to get a lot of it done . at the same time in all the rmgo emails dudley has only asked for money , not time or some sort of physical donation beyond cash!!!!really if thats the extent that one can be a part of rmgo count me out !
Pick your battles - and for me fighting gun control is worth the fight. I hate a lot of what the NRA does and how they are run, but I'll support them because they have a massive voice in gun legislation. RMGO is a much smaller player, but still has a voice.
i do and your welcome to join me in changing public opinion by helping clean the mess of other shooters .
if the nra or rmgo asked me to help by putting out flyers or making call to inform people about gun rights (without asking them for money) im down .
but the doom , sky is falling tactics dont make me want to help in the least bit .
im really not trying to bash rmgo or dudley but id like to see less money begging and more asking people to get involved with time spent helping out .just like everyone else i get sick of people asking for money . if thats all you expect out of the community then please dont include me in it .
i joined coar15 to meet folks ,trade,info on shooting events ,and if possable make a small helpful impact onto the local shooting community .i have gotten that and much more and not one person has asked me for a dime .
i do and your welcome to join me in changing public opinion by helping clean the mess of other shooters .
Every time I go shooting, my friend, every time. I always take extra bags with me because I know some idiot will have left casings, hulls, targets, things shouldn't BE targets and general garbage around. Last weekend I was at Guanella and picked up probably 1,000 .22 casings and trash all over my site - when we were done it didn't even look like someone had ever camped there (after also cleaning out the overflowing fire pits).
i joined coar15 to meet folks ,trade,info on shooting events ,and if possable make a small helpful impact onto the local shooting community .i have gotten that and much more and not one person has asked me for a dime .
Oh, and I suspect RMGO will be happy to have you volunteer instead of asking you for money :). Seriously, though, if they don't ask and pester then they don't get paid. I get bugged by Childrens Hospital on a weekly basis these days because I give them a ton each year. Whatever, it's the non profit game.
Every time I go shooting, my friend, every time. I always take extra bags with me because I know some idiot will have left casings, hulls, targets, things shouldn't BE targets and general garbage around. Last weekend I was at Guanella and picked up probably 1,000 .22 casings and trash all over my site - when we were done it didn't even look like someone had ever camped there (after also cleaning out the overflowing fire pits).
i have found that most members here do the same or at least take out more than they brought in . myself and everyone else thanks you .
humm wondering if rmgo would consider open space range clean ups , all the recyclables from the day could go to the cause .also that would be a time and place that id be willing to fork over some bucks
GunsRBadMMMMKay
07-01-2011, 12:08
[Beer] to RMGO and every other gun rights org out there fighting the good fight.
"Do you want Aurora PD arresting people for guns in their car (which state law says is ENTIRELY legal)? Thank RMGO (and John Sternberg, who drove this bus) for completely revamping Aurora's illegal ordinance and even changing the Aurora Police Department's training materials on guns in cars."
Someone told me the other day that Adams County is charging people with child endangerment if they have a gun in the car with children. I haven't been able to verify the truth of that statement, so it could just be one of those rumors that floats around twisted off what happened to one person, one time.......but if not, well. Guess I should start another thread, but seeing the Aurora thing reminded me about it.
Someone told me the other day that Adams County is charging people with child endangerment if they have a gun in the car with children. I haven't been able to verify the truth of that statement, so it could just be one of those rumors that floats around twisted off what happened to one person, one time.......but if not, well. Guess I should start another thread, but seeing the Aurora thing reminded me about it.
I very seriously doubt it.
GunsRBadMMMMKay
07-01-2011, 15:58
Yeah I laughed when they told me that, and asked if it actually stuck in court.....but still, I don't put anything past persistent gubment agencies after stats and dollars.
Byte Stryke
07-01-2011, 16:03
So Since most of us here are members Donors, etc If one of us gets hoodwinked by a PD on some like child endangerment because I have a gun and a Child, you will step up and help us out too?
[/holds breath]
I like how you give everyone a nice car decal with your logo and a picture of a firearm so when you are not in your vehicle, would-be-theives know which cars to break into for firearms... [/sarcasm]
Byte Stryke
07-01-2011, 16:44
I like how you give everyone a nice car decal with your logo and a picture of a firearm so when you are not in your vehicle, would-be-theives know which cars to break into for firearms... [/sarcasm]
you mean you put yours on your car?
[ROFL1]
I didn't buy one... and no, I don't make my vehicles bilboards for what could be inside.
DSB OUTDOORS
07-01-2011, 20:17
So Since most of us here are members Donors, etc If one of us gets hoodwinked by a PD on some like child endangerment because I have a gun and a Child, you will step up and help us out too?[/holds breath]
I got you're back Guy!! [Beer]
When I see a Ford sticker across a windshield, I often wonder if there is a Ford hidden some where inside the vehicle.
GunsRBadMMMMKay
07-02-2011, 00:38
When I see a Ford sticker across a windshield, I often wonder if there is a Ford hidden some where inside the vehicle.
Hey now.....:P
RMGOdirector
07-02-2011, 08:30
So Since most of us here are members Donors, etc If one of us gets hoodwinked by a PD on some like child endangerment because I have a gun and a Child, you will step up and help us out too?
[/holds breath]
If it's a case that could set a precedent (i.e. Help more than just you), yes, we would. And do.
Even if it's someone, like you, who's badmouthing RMGO constantly.
We simply don't have the budget to get involved in even a fraction of the cases people bring to us, and we have to use our own judgement on whether it will set a precedent (and my crystal ball is broken).
Now, if you'd like to PLAN a legal challenge, that's a bit different: we only work with members who are on the team. Witness the Bonidy's, who are our plaintiffs against the postal service re carrying in post offices.
LoneStar
07-02-2011, 08:46
[quote=RMGOdirector;376839]If it's a case that could set a precedent (i.e. Help more than just you), yes, we would. And do.
i.e. could get our name in the headlines so we can ask for more money
Byte Stryke
07-02-2011, 08:51
If it's a case that could set a precedent (i.e. Help more than just you), yes, we would. And do.
Even if it's someone, like you, who's badmouthing RMGO constantly.
We simply don't have the budget to get involved in even a fraction of the cases people bring to us, and we have to use our own judgement on whether it will set a precedent (and my crystal ball is broken).
Now, if you'd like to PLAN a legal challenge, that's a bit different: we only work with members who are on the team. Witness the Bonidy's, who are our plaintiffs against the postal service re carrying in post offices.
HOLD UP...
First, If I didn't believe in the cause, I wouldn't be a Member. I Fully appreciate what RMGO has done for us.
Secondly, Because because I like RMGO Doesn't mean I can't be critical of certain actions. and the latest one deserves it in my opinion.
It's my opinion that the use of the RMGO membership mailing list for the personal/private backingand resulting Gain of Mr Wyatt was out of order. I Do not constantly badmouth RMGO.
Is that so hard to understand?
RMGOdirector
07-02-2011, 08:58
I stand corrected. Remember that I don't know real names (vs this forum's nicknames).
Lonestar, you're way off base. But don't have time to debate it.
RMGOdirector
07-02-2011, 08:59
And Byte, that Arwen quote is one of my favorites in all of literature.
um mr dudley not trying to be an ass or anything but im sure byte is pleased and miffed with RMGO . all of us (colorado shooters ) are pleased with the work you have done concerning gun laws but...we are not pleased with the doom and gloom emails constantly asking for money at every turn and to top it off you have aligned us all (colorado shooters ) with gun smoke and the discovery channel (witch would be just fine if you were not representing all colorado shooters) .
maybe you could try to send an email that is just info without begging for green backs . or maybe plan some sort of event where we ALL can get involved .
maybe im simple or missing the point but at the same time i feel like your not listing to what we (colorado shooters have to say ) . we are not attacking you or RMGO just some of the decisions that have been made recently
An organization that can take criticism and make adjustments will be a better organization. One that cannot will fail.
LoneStar
07-02-2011, 09:07
^ +1
I am a member myself. I have no problem donating for the cause. I enjoy that you guys have a website that I can send new shooters from work to. But I dont hear from you guys unless its for cash. Nobody is going to be completely happy all the time and you have to decide what is best. Just my .02
An organization that can take criticism and make adjustments will be a better organization. One that cannot will fail.
well said [Beer]
RMGOdirector
07-02-2011, 10:29
If RMGO did not ask for donations, frequently, we wouldn't exist. It's tough enough to keep an organization with the existing level of funding, and reducing it would be....well, we'd drop more balls (aka the post earlier about not getting a returned call) and fund less programs.
Remember this: not everyone is as diligent as the people on this board. Not everyone is a faithful donor. Some give only once in a blue moon, and only when an issue really grabs them. Frankly, we need those people as well as the regular donors.
Many hands makes light work, though. It's one of the reasons we're always looking for new members (ColoGunMarket.com is a great source).
Of course, donations are voluntary. We're not pulling money out of anyone's pocket (like a labor union).
IF you have a theory on how to fund RMGO, please, step up and test it. If you throw out a theory on how to fund it, don't be surprised if:
1. We've already tried that method, and it doesn't work. This isn't our first rodeo, after all.
2. You suddenly find yourself "volunteered" into testing your theory.
Would RMGO like to find one donor who would underwrite the cost of our operations every year? SURE. Introduce me to him/her.
But that wouldn't be a grassroots group, would it? And one big donor makes groups lazy, and if that donor decides to move on.... your group is gone.
As for "listening", we wouldn't be here on this forum if we weren't.
I have no problem with RMGO and they have done a lot of good for shooters in this state
I have no problem with RMGO begging for money. Its annoying but it is required for them to stay afloat and do what they do.
I DO have a problem with them being associated with Gunsmoke. From the reviews I have read on this site and other sites along with detailed accounts of interactions with Gunsmoke, I would not want to associate with Gunsmoke at all.
I think everyone needs to realize that if we bash RMGO to much then it will diminish what they are able to do with CO gun rights. They are on our side, remember?
cwripinz
07-02-2011, 12:42
I have no problem with RMGO and they have done a lot of good for shooters in this state
I have no problem with RMGO begging for money. Its annoying but it is required for them to stay afloat and do what they do.
I DO have a problem with them being associated with Gunsmoke. From the reviews I have read on this site and other sites along with detailed accounts of interactions with Gunsmoke, I would not want to associate with Gunsmoke at all.
I think everyone needs to realize that if we bash RMGO to much then it will diminish what they are able to do with CO gun rights. They are on our side, remember?
An organization that can take criticism and make adjustments will be a better organization. One that cannot will fail.
+1 on ALL of the Quoted Above.
id like to see RMGO
1 sponsor a youth group or shooting camp
im sure you have at least one member that has land they would put up for a few days , there are plenty of LEO'S , Military personal and instructors that would donate there time , plenty of folks would donate foods and ammo for kids to eat and shoot .
who cares if this brings in money , educating young people is more important (your future members)
2 free inner city firearm education class (held at a library or church )
again im sure that every town or city in co has at least one place that will donate a room for a night a week or so . im not talking a free CCW class , im talking about taking educating people on there rights as citizens and taking the fear out of guns
again there are plenty of people that can help with this
(also not really a money maker )
3 open space/ range clean ups
we all know what that takes , its a pain but if you asked i bet you would get one hell of a turn out .
nope not really any money there but im sure there would be plenty of fun shootin and getting together .
when its all said and done id really like the "fear factor " taken out of the picture . i personally just like to shoot and would like to see more family events held , maybe even try a potluck with no guns or shooting just food and fun . you could just put a jar out and i know id throw in some bucks . hell you might not get but a few dollars but everyone has fun right??
i guess my real question is RMGO just about the politics and money or is there some sort or program that i dont see on your web site ??
Q: am i a member of RMGO ??
A:nope i have been getting the emails and waiting to see if your organization represents my shooting interest to the fullest . although i do appreciate the legislative work your organization has done. i have yet to see where one can get involved as an individual or as a group to make positive physical changes in the shooting community and public perception of this community .
i would gladly help organizing and start the programs listed above , also id like a pdf or and image of free educational material on firearm awareness that i can print and put on my table for free at the gun shows .do you have such a thing ? has RMGO contacted the leo or military community about being part of safety day (or what ever its called now ) for grade school children ?
these are the things i want to see and be a part of and just maybe these programs would help further RMGO's legislative actions .
maybe im missing the point or have a simplistic point of view ....yep im over it
? Dudley, how much $$ do you take frome RMGO.
How much $$ does it take to run RMGO, theae are ?'s people ant to know.
I have no problem with RMGO and they have done a lot of good for shooters in this state
I have no problem with RMGO begging for money. Its annoying but it is required for them to stay afloat and do what they do.
I DO have a problem with them being associated with Gunsmoke. From the reviews I have read on this site and other sites along with detailed accounts of interactions with Gunsmoke, I would not want to associate with Gunsmoke at all.
I think everyone needs to realize that if we bash RMGO to much then it will diminish what they are able to do with CO gun rights. They are on our side, remember?
Ok, so what about the constant fear mongering? It does get very annoying.
RMGOdirector
07-02-2011, 15:04
Alxone, you have us confused with other groups with different missions.
We aren't a shooting club, a PR firm for gun owners, a competitive shooting group, etc
We're a gun rights group. Our job is to fight against politicians, bureaucrats, law enforcement, and others (too frequently, these gun controls come from the shooting community) who would place artificial limits on our God-given right to keep and bear arms.
That's why we founded the group, and what our members want us to do (we poll them often).
If you want something else done, I suggest:
1. Lay out w comprehensive plan, including how to fund and operate it. Again, it might be suggested you volunteer to run the program.
2. Create your own non-profit to do it. Then you'll find how difficult it is to raise the resources.
Personally, I already:
1. Help clean up any range I go to, including non-designated but regularly used shooting locations in Forest Service land
2. Teach youth firearms safety (not just my kids and all of their friends but kids in my church, 4-H, boy Scouts, etc)
3. Work to change the perception of gun owners and shooters by being a clean cut, approachable and friendly member of my community.
Ok, so what about the constant fear mongering? It does get very annoying.
Annoying, but possibly necessary. Most people (gun owners included) tend to be complacent and grumble about the status quo, but for 90% of the population, it takes relatively dire circumstances before they'll act. The danger here is that if you paint everything as a potential catastrophe, you become the boy who cried "wolf" one too many times. I think RMGO might use the doom & gloom tactic a bit too much, perhaps instead they might want to send out more emails detailing the positive things they have initiated. Many of their emails and press releases are preaching to the faithful, rather then reaching out to potential converts.
Just my humble opinion, worth less than you paid for it...[Beer]
Alxone, you have us confused with other groups with different missions.
We aren't a shooting club, a PR firm for gun owners, a competitive shooting group, etc
We're a gun rights group. Our job is to fight against politicians, bureaucrats, law enforcement, and others (too frequently, these gun controls come from the shooting community) who would place artificial limits on our God-given right to keep and bear arms.
That's why we founded the group, and what our members want us to do (we poll them often).
If you want something else done, I suggest:
1. Lay out w comprehensive plan, including how to fund and operate it. Again, it might be suggested you volunteer to run the program.
2. Create your own non-profit to do it. Then you'll find how difficult it is to raise the resources.
Personally, I already:
1. Help clean up any range I go to, including non-designated but regularly used shooting locations in Forest Service land
2. Teach youth firearms safety (not just my kids and all of their friends but kids in my church, 4-H, boy Scouts, etc)
3. Work to change the perception of gun owners and shooters by being a clean cut, approachable and friendly member of my community.
forgive if im wrong but dont public relations and politicians go hand in hand ? im workin on it ,but as you can i cant type worth a damn [LOL]if you already doing these things why not include RMGO ?
Byte Stryke
07-02-2011, 17:01
I think what Ax is trying to say is "Hearts and Minds"
No so good in armed conflict, GREAT in politics.
even if its sending an email on Alxone's behalf for one of his range cleanups.
RMGO rep shows up and serves lemonade with the RMGO banner on the table.
Someone calls a news channel, faces and good things are in the news, politicians line up to be a part of good publicity.
you are out a few hours and some lemonade.
Help us to help you to help us help you.
CMP_5.56
07-02-2011, 17:56
I personally see the fight for our rights and the need to shed positive light on the shooting community, as one and the same. Politicians respond to positive press as well as fear of losing office.
RMGOdirector
07-03-2011, 17:57
Public opinion and public policy (i.e. The law) are two very different things, and often at odds.
http://www.rmgo.org/strategy
Even if you could change public opinion in a significant way (almost impossible), that doesn't mean public policy on gun issues changes.
DD977GM2
07-03-2011, 19:07
I think Ax is also trying to say, if RMGO really needs $$$$$$$, a range cleanup would be a great way to do it.
Shooting starting at 9am based on donations to the RMGO to participate in the shoot. No real prizes except posative press for all involved, including the clean up being done.
All seem to win because at this type of event
We get a publisized (hopefully) shoot that gets a good cleaning
RMGO gets donations that ARE voluntary
Public sees we are all around good folks and guns are not scary.
That I would donate and I would feel better about donating in a venue such as that or simular.
GM2
Byte Stryke
07-03-2011, 19:14
Public opinion and public policy (i.e. The law) are two very different things, and often at odds.
http://www.rmgo.org/strategy
Even if you could change public opinion in a significant way (almost impossible), that doesn't mean public policy on gun issues changes.
which is why I would like to use Mr Udall's Stance for public ranges to shed positive light on the situation and reinforce everyone's position.
win-win for everyone
I only mention this because sitting on my ass and hoping things get better by writing checks to you NAGR, NRA and GOA Doesn't seem to be working very well.
Public opinion and public policy (i.e. The law) are two very different things, and often at odds.
http://www.rmgo.org/strategy
Even if you could change public opinion in a significant way (almost impossible), that doesn't mean public policy on gun issues changes.
Changing public opinion will eventually lead to changing public policy.
For example: Let's look at gun control, the media showed firearms in a negative way so that led to public opinion saying "guns are scary and dangerous", which led to public policy adopting some laws that are ridiculous and don't do anything but increase crime. But the public still sees that we need more gun control that doesn't work. So more laws are adopted and before we know it, it's too late to change 'public opinion' and our rights are completely gone.
just because a man listens does not mean he understands
pickenup
07-04-2011, 00:43
Pickenup: You asked what we do.
Yes, in another thread, I did. I wanted to see if anyone had a clue as to what RMGO does. Other than sending out info, a reference to the carry on college battle, and a few VERY "general" statements about fighting for this or that, no one seem to know.
As for the list of businesses that do not allow concealed carry, isn't that "mostly" a list comprised of information that the MEMBERS send in?
Looking at YOUR list of "accomplishments" you posted here, is not all that impressive, if one believes in the constitution. After all, the concealed carry law we have now IS infringing on our "right to BEAR arms" is it not? Different aspects of the UNconstitutional concealed carry laws, and getting politicians elected is, for the most part, what YOU listed.
In the McDonald case, there were a total of 33 briefs filed. One of the briefs was signed by 58 senators and 251 representatives, more members of Congress than any amicus curiae brief in history.
Concerning the "constitutional" carry bills that you have been fighting for. You have been fighting for more than a decade, doesn't seem to have done much good.....yet.
As in our communication last year, I asked you for ammunition, SOLID facts to fight the anti-gun, anti-RMGO folks. Something that RMGO has done so I could SHOW them.
Your reply...."SO much of what I do isn't something we can brag about publicly....." I can't talk about this, I can't talk about that.
OK, I understand, but that does not give us much to fight with, does it?
Since you are the one who started "this" post, about what RMGO does, I will address a concern of mine.
Correct me if I am wrong. You founded RMGO in 1996, and fought for our (Colorado's) rights, as executive director of that organization. Fighting for us kept you busy, every day, 24/7/365. Is this correct?
Then in 2006 you became executive director of NAGR.
(National Association for Gun Rights)
"National" being the key word. Doesn't "national" mean that YOU deal with issues nationally now? National, as in every state in the country? Did you have that much extra time, or are we, as RMGO members not getting quite the attention that we USED to....or?
Now you say....
makes what I do (every day, 24/7/365, often at the expense of my family) worth it.
Don't get me wrong, I have been a member for quite a number of years, and plans are to continue to be. Unlike the NRA, I do think that you have our constitutional "best interest" at heart, until I start to believe otherwise.........well, change happens.
I still have yet to see an explanation for the RMGO/gunsmoke association.
damn dudley your missing out!! so today when the park service asked why im cleaning the ranges and who im with .
what was said "hi my name is alex and no im not a part of any organization but i do belong to a firearms related online forum . its support of coar15 and my lady that makes this possible "
what could have been said "hi my name is alex and im with rmgo . yes rmgo stands behind this action. isnt it nice to have a state wide organization that is willing to do things like this without being asked "
its only gonna get better and coar15 and its members will get to share in whatever bonus that might come for this . when its all said and done remember this, i offered and you declined .
Great-Kazoo
07-04-2011, 20:03
damn dudley your missing out!! so today when the park service asked why im cleaning the ranges and who im with .
what was said "hi my name is alex and no im not a part of any organization but i do belong to a firearms related online forum . its support of coar15 and my lady that makes this possible "
what could have been said "hi my name is alex and im with rmgo . yes rmgo stands behind this action. isnt it nice to have a state wide organization that is willing to do things like this without being asked "
its only gonna get better and coar15 and its members will get to share in whatever bonus that might come for this . when its all said and done remember this, i offered and you declined .
your enthusiasm is falling on deaf ears. Dudly who does have the interest of gun owners at heart has become nothing more than a lobbyist. granted rmgo has been fighting the good fight, however tunnel vision has set in. Otherwise rmgo would have at least offered to cover some expenses for your outstanding effort doing range clean up. All i might add without me or anyone (at least i know of) receiving an e-m or p-m asking for A DONATION!!
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 07:21
We run a lot of programs -- really, right now, more than I can manage -- but we do them intentionally, with a gameplan laid out, and with the help of members.
Right now, our budget doesn't permit us to get involved in things which are not closely connected to our primary purpose -- something RMGO staff have pledged their conduct to, and to which we work every day.
Not to say "range cleanup" is not important to folks: it is, and should be. So should a LOT of things.
Lots here have the "that sounds easy" attitude. Then, go ahead and create your own group (suggest, if you're not getting involved in politics and lobbying, to go the 501-c-3 route).
Unfortunately, the groups who claim to be "shooting oriented" tend to get involved in politics, and then become RMGO's enemies (because they protect bad politicians and start advocating for "reasonable" gun control).
Forming, funding and growing a non-profit, though, is not for the big talkers. It takes a lot of hard work, over many years.
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 07:28
damn dudley your missing out!! so today when the park service asked why im cleaning the ranges and who im with .
what was said "hi my name is alex and no im not a part of any organization but i do belong to a firearms related online forum . its support of coar15 and my lady that makes this possible "
what could have been said "hi my name is alex and im with rmgo . yes rmgo stands behind this action. isnt it nice to have a state wide organization that is willing to do things like this without being asked "
its only gonna get better and coar15 and its members will get to share in whatever bonus that might come for this . when its all said and done remember this, i offered and you declined .
Posting an idea on a forum is hardly a gameplan.
I don't deny a range cleanup brigade would be nice. But, it wouldn't change the views (anti- or pro-gun) of the Park Service bureaucrat. And even if it did, so what? For a group focused on public policy (i.e. gun laws), this does nothing.
I have a LOT of ideas that you (I'll pick on alxone) aren't doing. Get our your notepad, and I'll give you half a hundred ideas on what would make the world a better place. I'll expect them done by tomorrow afternoon, or I'll be back on this forum, posting and harassing you for failing to do what I think is important......
I think you get the idea.
If it's been an idea of yours, something that drives you, find others who have the same vision and get them together. If it gets too big to run as a volunteer, you might need to form a non-profit (especially if the IRS starts looking at the group's bank account).
But if it's your idea, and no one seems willing to follow....
There's a saying that fits. "If no one's following, you're not a leader."
ghettodub
07-05-2011, 09:07
Changing public opinion will eventually lead to changing public policy.
For example: Let's look at gun control, the media showed firearms in a negative way so that led to public opinion saying "guns are scary and dangerous", which led to public policy adopting some laws that are ridiculous and don't do anything but increase crime. But the public still sees that we need more gun control that doesn't work. So more laws are adopted and before we know it, it's too late to change 'public opinion' and our rights are completely gone.
Agree with that 100%. There is a huge stigma with gun owners, and by showing people that we're not all rednecks, criminals, or crazies could help us out immensely when it comes to things like constitutional carry, etc...
RMGOdirector
07-05-2011, 09:34
Actually, no, it doesn't.
Case-in-point: Public opinion, regardless of where you poll, is almost 80% in favor of passing a right to work law (not being forced to join a union as a condition of employment).
But, there's only been one vote on this issue in the entire history of the US Senate, and none in the US House.
I don't want to debate this issue, but it's a good example: public opinion and public policy are two very, very different things.
The Balanced Budget Amendment is another example. So is forced busing (in the reverse), the Panama Canal treaty (again, in reverse), the assault weapons ban (ibid), etc, etc, etc.
John Dillinger was asked "Why do you rob banks?" His answer was "Because that's where the money is."
ghettodub
07-05-2011, 10:00
Actually, no, it doesn't.
Case-in-point: Public opinion, regardless of where you poll, is almost 80% in favor of passing a right to work law (not being forced to join a union as a condition of employment).
But, there's only been one vote on this issue in the entire history of the US Senate, and none in the US House.
I don't want to debate this issue, but it's a good example: public opinion and public policy are two very, very different things.
The Balanced Budget Amendment is another example. So is forced busing (in the reverse), the Panama Canal treaty (again, in reverse), the assault weapons ban (ibid), etc, etc, etc.
John Dillinger was asked "Why do you rob banks?" His answer was "Because that's where the money is."
Agree that they're two different things, but do you really believe that public opinion doesn't impact public policy? I believe it should impact it, but unfortunately...
I do believe that most politicians work strictly off of their own agenda, and their special interests agendas, but the public still does have some impact on policies, when things go to a vote, or to who is elected. If someone comes out as pro-gun, and a majority of people (hypothetically) are anti-gun in that area, do you really think that people aren't going to take that in to consideration? That's what I of with how public opinion impacts almost everything... Unfortunately, as I mentioned, I think most of our garbage politicians don't give two shits about what the voting public thinks...
If there weren't news stories about how pitbulls are "killers," do you think there would still be those ridiculous bans on breeds? That's public opinion, because of that garbage, people believe it, and therefore impacts policy...
Posting an idea on a forum is hardly a gameplan.
I don't deny a range cleanup brigade would be nice. But, it wouldn't change the views (anti- or pro-gun) of the Park Service bureaucrat. And even if it did, so what? For a group focused on public policy (i.e. gun laws), this does nothing.
so what your saying is the next time shooting and the national forest service come up in the court room it wouldnt be a good idea to have a happy park bureaucrat on your side ???
I have a LOT of ideas that you (I'll pick on alxone) aren't doing. Get our your notepad, and I'll give you half a hundred ideas on what would make the world a better place. I'll expect them done by tomorrow afternoon, or I'll be back on this forum, posting and harassing you for failing to do what I think is important......
sorry you feel attacked , that was not my intention
If it's been an idea of yours, something that drives you, find others who have the same vision and get them together. If it gets too big to run as a volunteer, you might need to form a non-profit (especially if the IRS starts looking at the group's bank account).
i dont want money and none will be accepted for this service .
also seeing as you dont want any help from mysely and the members that are willing to help in this project , i will continue to encourage people to donate to the U.S.O.
There's a saying that fits. "If no one's following, you're not a leader."
your statement just seems like that of a bully trying his best to make the other kids on the schoolyard look small especially seeing as i could give a rats ass about being in the light and all i want are clean parks to shoot in(with shooters looking better as a byproduct ) .
maybe you should read this thread again
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42165
We run a lot of programs -- really, right now, more than I can manage -- but we do them intentionally, with a gameplan laid out, and with the help of members.
so what your saying is you will fund and run a program in another country but a local program does you (RMGO) no good ?? um i thought you were a COLORADO organization??
Unfortunately, the groups who claim to be "shooting oriented" tend to get involved in politics, and then become RMGO's enemies (because they protect bad politicians and start advocating for "reasonable" gun control).
well when you poo poo local ideas and help with no cost you [Bang][Bang][Bang]
CMP_5.56
07-05-2011, 17:20
Seems to me this is becoming a very one sided name calling contest. Multiple people are questioning what is going on and why, the other is defending himself with by basically saying noone on this forum is smart enough to do what they have done. It's a very self serving attitude, which has been my problem with it from the beginning. And yes it takes time, effort and some help to get an NPO off the ground. To be honest though, it is not like building the great wall of China single handedly. I did it with my parents, until it got off the ground. I've volunteered for many of them, and help quite a few with the little money i can give.
I know one thing, plenty of people on this forum, myself included have brought up volunteering time, and it has been ignored from the beginning. Which to me says, no I don't want your help, just your money. Well all the other NPOs i have dealt with are extremely grateful for volunteered time. Because they know it is worth more than money. A days worth of work says a whole lot more than $10 will ever say.
Byte Stryke
07-05-2011, 17:43
Seems to me this is becoming a very one sided name calling contest. Multiple people are questioning what is going on and why, the other is defending himself with by basically saying noone on this forum is smart enough to do what they have done. It's a very self serving attitude, which has been my problem with it from the beginning. And yes it takes time, effort and some help to get an NPO off the ground. To be honest though, it is not like building the great wall of China single handedly. I did it with my parents, until it got off the ground. I've volunteered for many of them, and help quite a few with the little money i can give.
I know one thing, plenty of people on this forum, myself included have brought up volunteering time, and it has been ignored from the beginning. Which to me says, no I don't want your help, just your money. Well all the other NPOs i have dealt with are extremely grateful for volunteered time. Because they know it is worth more than money. A days worth of work says a whole lot more than $10 will ever say.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3777084698_a7ef4bf328_z.jpg
DD977GM2
07-05-2011, 18:03
[Originally Posted by CMP_5.56 http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?p=378020#post378020)
Seems to me this is becoming a very one sided name calling contest. Multiple people are questioning what is going on and why, the other is defending himself with by basically saying noone on this forum is smart enough to do what they have done. It's a very self serving attitude, which has been my problem with it from the beginning. And yes it takes time, effort and some help to get an NPO off the ground. To be honest though, it is not like building the great wall of China single handedly. I did it with my parents, until it got off the ground. I've volunteered for many of them, and help quite a few with the little money i can give.
I know one thing, plenty of people on this forum, myself included have brought up volunteering time, and it has been ignored from the beginning. Which to me says, no I don't want your help, just your money. Well all the other NPOs i have dealt with are extremely grateful for volunteered time. Because they know it is worth more than money. A days worth of work says a whole lot more than $10 will ever say.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3777084698_a7ef4bf328_z.jpg
Unfortunatly due to this thread, RMGO and NGRA or whatever will not see my donations or support for anything. It is rather sad as I was all about them in the beginning and to the present.
Dudley I hope you have some change of heart and think of the "Little" folks. As far as asking me for money, you are falling on deaf ears now with my family, who is rather large and around 80% pro-gun, thanks in part by me with educating the libs in my family that guns are no more dangerous then a parked vehicle. I think your diregard for us offering to do a voluntary clean up at ranges...say one a month or one every 3 months with the name and banner of RMGO as a way to see that a Pro Gun organization will participate in an event such as that, can and will persuade public opinion in our favor along with getting the Parks and Rec arena of folks to start supporting us and not thinking of gun owners as a negative thing.
An example was a couple years ago we on here did a clean up in Pawnee and those that participated were regarded in a favorable ligh with the Parks department to the extent they spent money on a nice plaque with all our names on it and supported us 100%. That will lead to further support in legislation down the road IMHO.
I am saddened by the arrogance of your replies and unfortunatly will not offer anything from my end towards you and your organization anymore. I have even taken off the bumper stickers on my work hard hat (modified to fit) and my 3 vehicles including a 4th work vehicle. I drive around 150k miles a year all over the state and Rocky Mountain region. I have on numerous occasions boasted about how you guys fight the good fight for our rights in aparking lot or gas station and others have said they would look further into RMGO and this sadly will not happen anymore.
[Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]
DD977GM2
07-05-2011, 18:13
I still have yet to see an explanation for the RMGO/gunsmoke association.
Dudley, can you give us an explanation as to your affiliation with a Firearm store/ gunsmith who has shady work ethics, practices and a criminal past?
Of all the FFLs & Gunsmiths in the state, this is unbelievable as to why you would do such a thing.
If it is due to the TV exposure, then that is truely saddening and not in keeping with the Core Values you express. :(:(:(:confused::confused::confused:
hollohas
07-06-2011, 09:55
I don't deny a range cleanup brigade would be nice. But, it wouldn't change the views (anti- or pro-gun) of the Park Service bureaucrat. And even if it did, so what? For a group focused on public policy (i.e. gun laws), this does nothing.
So what does?
Here's what I think this all boils down to. RMGO is supposed to be a grassroots organization...but it isn't. From everything that you have written here it is clear you don't want our actual help...you want to do it all within your organization...with our funding...that's not grassroots.
Getting everyone involved, arming us with facts, helping us get on the field to play and win, having an army behind you, organizing us so we can show the politicians our mass, that's grassroots. It is clear you don't want an army behind you because you are not arming us with the tools to help you win this fight. Only we are arming you with funding so you can go at the fight alone. That's not the way to win. Massive amounts of money behind you won't change anything without massive amounts of people backing it.
Hollohas out.
RMGOdirector
07-06-2011, 10:48
Were any of you there in 2007 when the Forest Service briefed members of the Colorado legislature on closures?
RMGO was. We've been working this issue from day 1, as our members expect (and should).
All of the FS employees there classified themselves as "pro-gun". Didn't make any difference, though.
Byte Stryke
07-06-2011, 11:03
Were any of you there in 2007 when the Forest Service briefed members of the Colorado legislature on closures?
RMGO was. We've been working this issue from day 1, as our members expect (and should).
All of the FS employees there classified themselves as "pro-gun". Didn't make any difference, though.
No you pompous ass, I wasn't in some nice air conditioned building listening to a bunch of self-important people cackle.
Like many others on this forum, depending on the day I was probably being shelled on a mountain top in somewhere in Afghanistan.
Now,
Stop dodging the above questions from DD977GM2, hollohas and the others.
RMGOdirector
07-06-2011, 11:15
It's pompous to detail "what we do", which is the name of this thread, after all?
I've answered every question offered. We're done here.
Yea from what i have read there is a lot of dodging of questions that I would like see answered. I agree with Byte stop being a politician and give a real answer instead of runnimg around in circles. Also remember one very important fact, without people supporting the cause RMGO would not be around. So when you start to under value people and tell them that you dont need thier time you just need thier money it says to me that maybe RMGO is not looking out for anyones best interest except RMGO and your pay check, btw how much do you donate out of you households income to RMGO? Or is you time worth more than others and that serves as your donation.
Byte Stryke
07-06-2011, 11:54
btw how much do you donate out of RMGO to your households income?
Fixed
Also i thinks its funny that almost all of your post has been from this thread. Your so involved with in the community where was the support for the feed the homeless thread or cleaning up our shooting areas? Seems to me that would be a good way to promote RMGO'S causes and help people that needed it but wait.....they couldent donate any money and thats what its all about right?
One last tidbit from me and "im done". Dont think that RMGO is " too big to fail", because it can be replaced.
Delfuego
07-06-2011, 12:46
RMGO/Dudley,
Dont you realize that these people could be your constituents and supporters? If you want to rub the "establishment" the wrong way on Capital Hill, then please go ahead. Alienating your potential supporters is just bad politics. Who are you doing this work for; if not the people on this website and similar like minded individuals? The people of CO-AR15 are the most conscientious gun enthusiasts and outdoorsmen/sportsmen I have met in Colorado.
If you pride yourself a politician, then I believe a little tack would be in order.
As for the rest of you, please state your opinion and your gripes and let it go, that horse is not gonna get up...
Delfuego out...
Were any of you there in 2007 when the Forest Service briefed members of the Colorado legislature on closures?
RMGO was. We've been working this issue from day 1, as our members expect (and should).
All of the FS employees there classified themselves as "pro-gun". Didn't make any difference, though.
your a broken record and obviously slow or something .
deal offered , we clean shooting areas , get good press , and offer you money ( what ever comes from the recycle but its real money ) .my dumb little pea brained 8 week clean up idea could have put a few bucks in your account and gotten rmgo plenty of free positive press . but noooo you want to walk around on your high horse and talk down to everyone . thats cool all the money we raise will go back to us (coar15 members) in the form of ammo or the npo of choice and a good time . any press we get will go to CoAr15 and it members with no mention of rmgo .
have you stopped to think how much your foul attitude is costing you in money and public image?
as where 2 weeks ago i was thinking maybe i should join and donate to rmgo , now i will never send your organization one dime also i would strongly suggest to anyone that would want to donate, that there money would be better of with the NRA , BSA or the USO .
honestly i have never had such displeasure with a non profit organization
[Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]
mazin said it best "Dont think that RMGO is " too big to fail", because it can be replaced"
ok im done here , rant over
DD977GM2
07-06-2011, 17:53
Dudley look at the red text above if you can see it!!!!!!!!!!
We run a lot of programs -- really, right now, more than I can manage -- but we do them intentionally, with a gameplan laid out, and with the help of members.
Right now, our budget doesn't permit us to get involved in things which are not closely connected to our primary purpose -- something RMGO staff have pledged their conduct to, and to which we work every day.
Not to say "range cleanup" is not important to folks: it is, and should be. So should a LOT of things.
Lots here have the "that sounds easy" attitude. Then, go ahead and create your own group (suggest, if you're not getting involved in politics and lobbying, to go the 501-c-3 route).
Unfortunately, the groups who claim to be "shooting oriented" tend to get involved in politics, and then become RMGO's enemies (because they protect bad politicians and start advocating for "reasonable" gun control).
Forming, funding and growing a non-profit, though, is not for the big talkers. It takes a lot of hard work, over many years.
Wow, an unprovoked cheapshot on the NRA. That's low. I've read all of the posts on the thread. You've proven that you don't care about the little guy. Go sit on your high horse and kiss the politicians asses. Seems that's how you like to get your business taken care of.
ghettodub
07-07-2011, 09:04
RMGO/Dudley,
Dont you realize that these people could be your constituents and supporters? If you want to rub the "establishment" the wrong way on Capital Hill, then please go ahead. Alienating your potential supporters is just bad politics. Who are you doing this work for; if not the people on this website and similar like minded individuals? The people of CO-AR15 are the most conscientious gun enthusiasts and outdoorsmen/sportsmen I have met in Colorado.
If you pride yourself a politician, then I believe a little tack would be in order.
As for the rest of you, please state your opinion and your gripes and let it go, that horse is not gonna get up...
Delfuego out...
With you there, and I'm out as well. I'm glad that this thread has really justified why I never joined RMGO in the past...some really classless posts considering WE are the gun folks here. Even if you disagree with what we think, believe, etc, you don't have to answer it like an ass who thinks he is better than others. There is a right way to say no, and clearly, RMGO/Dudley doesn't understand that...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.