Obama Gun Reform

[MattR]

So the article says he's going to bypass the house and senate and do an Executive Order, it doesn't say what he has in mind but seems he is just going to do what he wants. I'm not really sure why this isn't causing more of a stir?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/07/obama-unveil-gun-control-reforms_n_892633.html

[Byte Stryke]

[Bang]

damned libtards...

the criminals don't care about you passing laws... it's why we call them criminals.

[rocktot]

...make my day. I think he's thinking he's only here one term!![Beer]

Really yes, they are that stupid, but really, is he that stupid? He would loose 1/4 of the (White) Democrat votes on second amendment issues.

Don't believe it.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

it doesn't say what he has in mind but seems he is just going to do what he wants. l (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/07/obama-unveil-gun-control-reforms_n_892633.html)

That seems to have pretty much been the story for this administration.....why would it change now?

[Mtn.man]

America has not seen the bottom of this hole yet.

[rocktot]

God, reading that article made me sick. How many people get run over by 'laughing' illegal alien scum, and no one says a thing?

Is he going to make it illegal for the ATF to sell guns to Mexico? That would be a start...[Rant2]

Huff and puff, whatever he passes will just be overturned before it can take effect. But 4 more years will be a disaster.

[CMP_5.56]

I don't know if our constitution can take being used as toilet paper much longer. This man will not be satisfied until he completely destroys this country. That is what he went into office to achieve, bankrupt us and take every right we have away.

A couple years ago I thought my father was off his rocker calling the man the antichrist. Now I'm not so sure.

[BPTactical]

I am not sure but I don't think he can usurp the Constitution with an EO.
If he does he is narcissistic enough to think he is beyond reproach.
He is not.
He does not care the least of this country.
This country is on a precipice, unemployment is still rampant, the economy still sucks, people are still losing their homes not to mention all of the rest of the crap this administration has done (or not done).
Even a fair number of Libs are pissed.
We as a Nation are nearing a tipping point I fear.

300 million pissed off 2A enthusiasts? Not a good scenario.

[Guylee]

All the idiot commenters are talking about "closing the gun show loophole."

What loophole, dipshits?

[Colorado Luckydog]

I am not sure but I don't think he can usurp the Constitution with an EO.
If he does he is narcissistic enough to think he is beyond reproach.
He is not.
He does not care the least of this country.
This country is on a precipice, unemployment is still rampant, the economy still sucks, people are still losing their homes not to mention all of the rest of the crap this administration has done (or not done).
Even a fair number of Libs are pissed.
We as a Nation are nearing a tipping point I fear.

300 million pissed off 2A enthusiasts? Not a good scenario.

Every now and then someone just nails it. Good post BP![Beer]

[Hoosier]

Don't believe it.

It's on Huffington Post, why would you believe it?

H.

[CMP_5.56]

I actually tried to make some posts in response there. It took me a few to realize I would have a better chance at shedding light on the evils of drugs to Keith Richards.

[TS12000]

Wonder if the shoulder things that go up will be included in the new bans.

[BigMat]

Wonder if the shoulder things that go up will be included in the new bans.

Those things only are meant to kill!


Question for the history buffs, can anyone one here think of a single item that has been perceived as a public threat, and then banned by the gov't and actually went away? All that comes to mind is slavery, and one could argue it was just replaced with migrant workers who arguably lived in a state of indentured servitude. I can't think of any product that became illegal and didn't just begin residing under the table and in the dark corners of society. I think one could argue the big gov't types have created the ghetos and the divides in society by banning so many things those who use them become a second class of citizen, often unable to get help, because they are now a "criminal."

[alxone]

Those things only are meant to kill!


Question for the history buffs, can anyone one here think of a single item that has been perceived as a public threat, and then banned by the gov't and actually went away? All that comes to mind is slavery, and one could argue it was just replaced with migrant workers who arguably lived in a state of indentured servitude. I can't think of any product that became illegal and didn't just begin residing under the table and in the dark corners of society. I think one could argue the big gov't types have created the ghetos and the divides in society by banning so many things those who use them become a second class of citizen, often unable to get help, because they are now a "criminal."
damn mat you got me , i have thinking on it and cant come up with one thing . well maybe lawn darts [LOL]

[BigMat]

I've done some thinking about it. If I'm wrong please fill me in, this has got me thinking.

-Illegal drugs – banned – still used, obviously. Created the Drug War, created the current turmoil in Mexico, filled our prisons with people sucking 3 hots and a cot off the depressingly sober taxpayer. Awesome
-Gay Marriage – banned (mostly) – could be said the ban on gay marriage plays a role in the spread of HIV/AIDs. One of the best ways to prevent the spread is, monogamy. Marriage is for sure not a certainty of monogamy, but it doesn’t hurt.
-ETOH – previously banned – created the power of the mob during prohibition, and the mob has yet to reseed from power fully.
-Illegal immigration – banned – Yeah, they don’t come in anymore /sarcasm. I don’t even need to go into this.
-Prostitution – banned – I am sure any if you who have seen news in CO recently know how common this is. Especially if you happen to be a federal judge, or maybe, running for office in which you will run the largest law enforcement organization in the state!
- Many types of guns – production terminated, heavily monitored – hasn’t the murder rate gone up in the past two decades? Thanks goodness we got rid of all those machine guns and SBRs!


I can think of a few pesticides and medications/supplements that have been banned, but I think the FDA has served mostly to create this problem as it creates lazy, trusting, consumers, who are often lulled into Salmonila and carcinogens. For example, would “organic” food exist if the consumer really trusted the FDA to keep people safe, of course not, why pay more for no benefit.


There are of course common law crimes, like murder and theft, but I do not credit government for creating rules of society that have existed sense before we made it out of caves!


Even if these rules have done some good, they have not quashed any of the items listed, and served in large part to fill our prisons, push those in need of help and treatment to the slums of society, devoid of help or a chance. I feel like theses laws cemented the class of people they were created to "help."

[CrufflerSteve]

With the latest jobs figures out Nobama is vulnerable as all heck, Watch the main stream media working overtime to label the GOP candidates lunatics and every thing else they can make up and see if it sticks. I think right now that is his only chance of re-election.

I doubt if he would have the cojones to do any hard core anti-gun stuff and get gun owners upset. He does have a leftie base that is seriously unhappy with him so he needs to throw them a bone. Right now if you buy two handguns, it results in this http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-4.pdf I'll bet this gets expanded to long guns. It could be spun as helping stop violence south of the border. Maybe he'll allocate some funds to prosecute straw purchasers - providing they aren't working for the ATF. I'm sure he'd love to ban private sales but doubt if he'd do more than a speech on this.

Steve

[Ronin13]

Right now if you buy two handguns, it results in this http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-4.pdf I'll bet this gets expanded to long guns.

So what you're saying is, I can't buy more than one HG at a time without the dealer being forced into notifying the gov't that I am? What purpose does that serve? If I have the money, pass the BG check I should be able to buy whatever the hell I want within the law. If I wanted to buy 3 shotguns, 2 glocks, and a Colt .45, don't you think I should be free to do so without anyone looking over my shoulder?

Barrack Osama will keep pushing, I just wonder how long before a large mass of 2A supporters begins to push back.

[Zundfolge]

So what you're saying is, I can't buy more than one HG at a time without the dealer being forced into notifying the gov't that I am? What purpose does that serve?
The stated purpose is to help catch people illegally dealing in firearms without a federal firearms license.

The actual purpose it just to make gun purchasing and ownership as annoying as possible in order to discourage people from buying and owning guns ... drop the number of gun owners enough and it will be much easier to outright ban the things. Clearly its not working :p

[ghettodub]

With the latest jobs figures out Nobama is vulnerable as all heck, Watch the main stream media working overtime to label the GOP candidates lunatics and every thing else they can make up and see if it sticks. I think right now that is his only chance of re-election.



I don't think it's gonna take the media to do that; the current list of candidates from the GOP are a joke, and won't stand a chance in hell against Obama next time... just my .02...

[TEAMRICO]

I don't think it's gonna take the media to do that; the current list of candidates from the GOP are a joke, and won't stand a chance in hell against Obama next time... just my .02...

I here this all the time, care to explain.
Your research has shown this to be true how again?
Think about it, Obama? What qualified him to be Prez? It was cool cuz he was black is not good enough.
Once again how are the candidates a joke.
Everyone want me to believe it, have not heard a good argument yet.

[BigMat]

Early on I thought the GOP had no chance, as of right now, I feel like that isn't the case, purely by the POTUS's doing. He is making a big old mess of things, and I think he has failed his base and betrayed the undecided middle ground voter. I don't believe the election will be kind to him. If the GOP puts up a middle of the road candidate voters will swing that way, especially if he/she is anti-war. If the GOP goes tea-party, I bet Pres. Obama gets 4 more years.

[Irving]

I here this all the time, care to explain.
Your research has shown this to be true how again?
Think about it, Obama? What qualified him to be Prez? It was cool cuz he was black is not good enough.
Once again how are the candidates a joke.
Everyone want me to believe it, have not heard a good argument yet.

How do you prove that it is true that you don't like any candidates?

[mcantar18c]

Kind of in support of Matt's post... say Obama signs an EO that bans any and all firearms.
A) How will they find and obtain all of the firearms floating around? Sure, if you purchased from an FFL there's a record that you bought one, but do you really think they're gonna go door to door and tell people to hand them over? What about paperless private sales? No way to track those.
B) Are you really going to give them up? I know I damn sure ain't... the gov't can pass whatever laws they want, I'll keep on with my way of life. I have a feeling many of us would be involved in unfortunate boating accidents...

[mcantar18c]

Not that any of this matters. An EO is a policy, not a law... you can't be convicted of violating an EO, you would be convicted of whatever law is associated with the EO. Which means they would need to pass new laws, which is a little more difficult than signing an EO.

[Zundfolge]

Not that any of this matters. An EO is a policy, not a law... you can't be convicted of violating an EO, you would be convicted of whatever law is associated with the EO. Which means they would need to pass new laws, which is a little more difficult than signing an EO.

This is true, in general Executive Orders are orders given by the president to government agencies, they aren't as powerful as "laws by decree".

So all Obama could do regarding guns is things like shutting down all processing of NFA forms, shut down NICS checks (which would only result in an end to background checks but translate into a waiting period in most states). The biggest things he could probably do is shut down processing new and renewing FFLs (which would kill a large percentage of gun dealerships across the country) and ban all firearms imports. I'm sure there's other annoyances he could pull but those are all I can think of off the cuff.

Whatever he does will be both temporary and immensely damaging to his and other Democrats political futures.

[theGinsue]

All the idiot commenters are talking about "closing the gun show loophole."

What loophole, dipshits?

Just another one of those cute little anti-gun phrases that do nothing but stir up more anti-gun hatred based off of nothing real. Like the use of the term "assault weapon" and banning firearms due to athstetic/cosmetic reasons instead of functionality. They've had agreat marketing campaign though and no one in the media or anywhere else that can reach out and be heard has called them on it. Gun show loophole is bad because it lets anyone - including convicted mass murders go buy guns" is the ideology they've brainwashed folks into believing.


The president directed the Attorney General to form working groups with key stakeholders to identify common sense measures that would improve American safety and security while fully respecting Second Amendment rights," Carney said at Thursday's briefing. "That process is well underway at the Department of Justice with stakeholders on all sides working through these complex issues and we expect to have more specific announcements in the near future."


Any time you hear the term "common sense measures" it bodes VERY bad things on the horizon for our 2A rights. For them to claim that they will identify "common sense measures" and in the same breath claim "while fully respecting Second Amendment rights" I can know that they have no idea what the Second Amendment says or means. They always seem to overlook that pesky little part that says "shall not be infringed".

[CrufflerSteve]

This was just posted at the Daily Beast:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/11/obama-s-new-gun-control-regulations-exclusive.html?om_rid=CaSuGQ&om_mid=_BOG05LB8cSpV2K

Hey I guessed the reporting requirement extended to long guns? Do I win a tinfoil hat?

I like this one:
"A national electronic system designed to make background checks for handgun buyers simpler and faster, leaving an electronic paper trail."

Damn! It's a shame I sold all my guns.

Steve

[bameverden]

Man I hate it when they start messing with our right's, they spend our money and then take away our gun rights. I had a teacher tell me this "quit school and use the money to buy all the guns you can...you can always go to school later in life, you can't buy a banned gun!" haha

[sniper7]

doubt this will go anywhere. He is puffing up for a while to appease the anti's. if he actually does an EO, there will be extreme outrage, it will go to SCOTUS, and will go away...huge waste of time. But it will also ensure he will not get re-elected.

[Ronin13]

Man I hate it when they start messing with our right's, they spend our money and then take away our gun rights. I had a teacher tell me this "quit school and use the money to buy all the guns you can...you can always go to school later in life, you can't buy a banned gun!" haha

You had a teacher tell you that? Holy cow! I wanna go to a school where the teachers are pistol packin' educators! It is really sad that our tax dollars pay the salaries of Obama's anti-gun "think tank" people... I guess the "think tank" doesn't read the "constitution."

[waxthis]

"The Giffords shooting had, seemingly, upped the pressure to implement reforms."

Hmmm..So let me get this right, it's all fine and dandy when one of us peasants get shot and killed by some thug. But, when it starts happening to the elite government class, new laws must be passed>>WTF..
[Bang][Bang]

All these Fuc!ers need to go.

[BPTactical]

Obozo blew his chance at any "Gun Control"
Shot himself in the foot with "Fast and Furious".
This debacle showcased his "under the radar" control attempts and Congress is furious, even libs that support the Pretender in Chief are incensed.
FAIL!
If he tries anything sneaky-err, sneakier than usual- he really puts himself in a bad place with an election 13 months away.

What we have to watch is shifts in policy, such as the recent open letter to FFL's regarding MMJ card holders and firearms.
Also we have to hope and pray that the SCOTUS conservative judges stay the course.

Of course all bets are off if he loses next year. That grey area between November and January he will be pissed.

[DOC]

They have been told many times the errors in their opinions. And yet they still spout off about the same stuff. The people they are trying to fool with this stuff (me) isn't listening anymore. We have heard the truth and found them to be liars and unamerican.
They want reasonable gun control measures. Try repealing a gun control law or 2. I don't think they will find it as hard as pushing more controls.

[sniper7]

You had a teacher tell you that? Holy cow! I wanna go to a school where the teachers are pistol packin' educators! It is really sad that our tax dollars pay the salaries of Obama's anti-gun "think tank" people... I guess the "think tank" doesn't read the "constitution."

there are plenty of these kind of teachers in our public school system, now getting them to say that is highly doubtful. I am guessing that guy was a college professor.

[Ronin13]

They have been told many times the errors in their opinions. And yet they still spout off about the same stuff. The people they are trying to fool with this stuff (me) isn't listening anymore. We have heard the truth and found them to be liars and unamerican.
They want reasonable gun control measures. Try repealing a gun control law or 2. I don't think they will find it as hard as pushing more controls.

Or just omit everything the Brady crap did to restrict our 2a freedoms, give it 6 months, if crime goes up then re-institute it, but I can tell you it won't need to be.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Those things only are meant to kill!


Question for the history buffs, can anyone one here think of a single item that has been perceived as a public threat, and then banned by the gov't and actually went away? All that comes to mind is slavery, and one could argue it was just replaced with migrant workers who arguably lived in a state of indentured servitude. I can't think of any product that became illegal and didn't just begin residing under the table and in the dark corners of society. I think one could argue the big gov't types have created the ghetos and the divides in society by banning so many things those who use them become a second class of citizen, often unable to get help, because they are now a "criminal."

Absinthe. Until the mental and moral degradation sunk to new lows recently, absinthe just flat out disappeared. You could also make a case to say LSD and PCP have largely gone away although that's more because the users found "better" ways to get high without the dangers of psychotic episodes that LSD and PCP posed but they ARE essentially gone. Leaded gasoline and house paint are gone too.

[DOC]

Or just omit everything the Brady crap did to restrict our 2a freedoms, give it 6 months, if crime goes up then re-institute it, but I can tell you it won't need to be.
Make it so. And whomever is right after that owes the other an apology and must take up another hobby that is less dangerous to the constitution. Like (ritual) suicide.

[Ronin13]

Absinthe. Until the mental and moral degradation sunk to new lows recently, absinthe just flat out disappeared. You could also make a case to say LSD and PCP have largely gone away although that's more because the users found "better" ways to get high without the dangers of psychotic episodes that LSD and PCP posed but they ARE essentially gone. Leaded gasoline and house paint are gone too.

Not entirely accurate. LSD and PCP are not gone, I know plenty of people who regularly use LSD- and PCP is really not gone... Prohibition just forces it underground, doesn't make it go away. Except for Quaaludes, whatever happened to them? I see it in old movies all the time but haven't heard of any of my druggie friends using them, and they'll do anything!
"Nothing more frightening than a man in the depths of an ether binge..." -Hunter S. Thompson.

[DeusExMachina]

I'm not sure if this was pointed out, but it was posted in July.



Not entirely accurate. LSD and PCP are not gone, I know plenty of people who regularly use LSD- and PCP is really not gone... Prohibition just forces it underground, doesn't make it go away. Except for Quaaludes, whatever happened to them? I see it in old movies all the time but haven't heard of any of my druggie friends using them, and they'll do anything!
"Nothing more frightening than a man in the depths of an ether binge..." -Hunter S. Thompson.

Don't forget lithium...pretty sure nobody abuses lithium anymore.

[BPTactical]

I'm not sure if this was pointed out, but it was posted in July.

Yup- the Noobie resurrected it but it is still a worthy discussion. Especially given the "F&F" Charlie Foxtrot.

[DeusExMachina]

Yup- the Noobie resurrected it but it is still a worthy discussion. Especially given the "F&F" Charlie Foxtrot.

I haven't noticed, has anyone posted Obama's interview on F&F?

He said something like, "Everyone responsible will be held accountable". Way to try and cover your ass.

[Ronin13]

I haven't noticed, has anyone posted Obama's interview on F&F?

He said something like, "Everyone responsible will be held accountable". Way to try and cover your ass.

Said it once, saying it again "The Buck Stops Here." Give the man a 1911 and a single .45ACP Hollow Point and tell him to go out with some F*$%ing honor.

[cstone]

I haven't noticed, has anyone posted Obama's interview on F&F?

He said something like, "Everyone responsible will be held accountable". Way to try and cover your ass.

And as the President of the United States of America and the head of the executive branch of government, where would you rate President Obama's responsibility for F&F? More importantly, what did President Obama say he was doing to determine who knew what was going on and who approved F&F in the first place?

If the Attorney General knew about F&F and the AG remains in control of the Department of Justice, the DOJ has a conflict of interest in the investigation. The law calls for the President to appoint a special counsel to conduct the investigation.

Border Patrol Agent Terry and his surviving family members deserve justice.

[BPTactical]

1-And as the President of the United States of America and the head of the executive branch of government, where would you rate President Obama's responsibility for F&F?
2-More importantly, what did President Obama say he was doing to determine who knew what was going on and who approved F&F in the first place?

Border Patrol Agent Terry and his surviving family members deserve justice.

1- Directly at his feet. There is no "Plausible Deniability" at the POTUS level. He is directly responsible for the professional conduct of all those within the Executive Branch. This was clearly illustrated in the Watergate hearings. Is this not what brought Nixon down?
2- I don't believe he has said anything regarding this. Has he?

[hammer03]

Leaded gasoline and house paint are gone too.
Leaded gasoline is still available at most small airports. And lead paint is used in China all the time (as seen in the recent kids toys painted with the stuff).


And Lithium is still used as medication for many mental disorders.