Six Months After Tucson Shooting, White House Readies Gun Control Stance

[USCED]

From Fox news yesterday...
"Whatever direction the White House takes, the president emphasized that something has to be done, "None of us should be willing to remain passive in the face of violence or resigned to watching helplessly as another rampage unfolds on television.""

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/07/07/six-months-after-tucson-shooting-white-house-readies-gun-control-stance?test=latestnews

[Byte Stryke]

If the POTUS wanted to be tough on Gun crime he would mandate tougher sentences on those that commit crimes with guns.

Commit armed robbery and kill someone? Have a seat, this is going to pinch a little, you might feel a little burning.

Kill someone out of malicious intent? Have a seat, this is going to pinch a little, you might feel a little burning.

we dont need more laws that the criminals dont care about.
we need laws that will get rid of criminals

[Zundfolge]

If the POTUS wanted to be tough on Gun crime...
Yeah, but if the POTUS wanted to be tough on Law Abiding Gun Owners he'd just continue on the path he's been traveling since forever.

[DavieD55]

And who is the biggest contributor of firearms to violent people.

Have you guys ever heard of fast and furious?

[Zundfolge]

And who is the biggest contributor of firearms to violent people.

Have you guys ever heard of fast and furious?

Yeah, and I still say Vin Diesel is grossly over rated. [ROFL1]

[Ronin13]

I talked to a very avid 2A loving, republican history professor a couple weeks ago and he came up with a theory:
If POTUS/Congress/etc. passes laws that make it so only police and military can own guns, and we all criminals will totally disregard those laws, then we will see a large influx of law enforcement and military, overloaded dispatching centers and law enforcement officers, and crime rates skyrocketing making the violence in places like Prohibition-era Chicago look like an 4th Of July parade. Law-abiding citizens will become victims of crimes that normally weren't at risk... anarchy will follow shortly thereafter when the police decide that this is just too much. Either that or we'll just have a coup and get a whole new government.

[DavieD55]

Yeah, and I still say Vin Diesel is grossly over rated. [ROFL1]


[LOL]

[Zundfolge]

The real answer is in a small scene from Atlas Shrugged (the book ... dunno if its in the movie as I haven't seen it yet).


"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now, that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

[Clint45]

I talked to a very avid 2A loving, republican history professor a couple weeks ago and he came up with a theory:
If POTUS/Congress/etc. passes laws that make it so only police and military can own guns, and we all criminals will totally disregard those laws, then we will see a large influx of law enforcement and military, overloaded dispatching centers and law enforcement officers, and crime rates skyrocketing making the violence in places like Prohibition-era Chicago look like an 4th Of July parade. Law-abiding citizens will become victims of crimes that normally weren't at risk... anarchy will follow shortly thereafter when the police decide that this is just too much. Either that or we'll just have a coup and get a whole new government.

It is not going to go down like that at all.

I believe that, eventually, concealed carry and private party sales of handguns will be prohibited in all 50 states and mere possession of an autoloading rifle or hi-cap magazine will be a felony offense. Gun ownership will go underground and these laws will be selectively enforced against specific targeted individuals and groups. I do not think there will ever be random house to house searches in this country, but I do believe that informers will be awarded cash payments to point out homes where unauthorized firearms are stored, and if you have an unauthorized firearm there will be no defense to that charge and mandatory minimum sentencing. Give it another 5 years.

[TAR31]

we dont need more laws that the criminals dont care about.
we need laws that will get rid of criminals
Pretty much says it all right there.

[Zundfolge]

It is not going to go down like that at all.

I believe that, eventually, concealed carry and private party sales of handguns will be prohibited in all 50 states and mere possession of an autoloading rifle or hi-cap magazine will be a felony offense. Gun ownership will go underground and these laws will be selectively enforced against specific targeted individuals and groups. I do not think there will ever be random house to house searches in this country, but I do believe that informers will be awarded cash payments to point out homes where unauthorized firearms are stored, and if you have an unauthorized firearm there will be no defense to that charge and mandatory minimum sentencing. Give it another 5 years.

What on EARTH makes you think any of that is likely, let alone possible?

Seriously ... go back in time to the 1970s and tell someone you run into that by 2011 EVERY STATE IN THE UNION EXCEPT ONE would have some sort of concealed carry permit law.

Tell that same person that there would be 4.99 states where one can carry concealed WITHOUT A PERMIT (the .99 is Montana).

They'd laugh in your face while digging in their pocket for a dime and looking for a pay phone to call the loony bin to haul you away. (you could finish them off with; "Oh and by then you'll not need a pay phone because you'll have a wireless phone in your pocket ... about the size of a pack of gum").

Go back to 1994 and tell some sad sack that doesn't own an AR15 yet that the AWB will sunset. He'll shake his head and say "you poor deluded soul".

Go back to 2000 and ask some Democrat in Tennesee why Gore couldn't carry his home state in the Pres election and he'll say "The Goddamn NRA!".


No sir, the momentum is on OUR SIDE. The Obama over-reach (on a lot of things, but guns is one of them) will be his undoing.


Hell, I'm a pessimist but even I am enough of a realist to see that we're winning (of course the economy and possibly the American government is headed for collapse so gun laws will likely be a moot point in 5 years [Tooth] )

[DOC]

Still tell him to keep his hands off our guns. And after that call and write the congress critters until his bills die a deserved death in committee.

[Clint45]

What on EARTH makes you think any of that is likely, let alone possible?

Seriously ... go back in time to the 1970s and tell someone you run into that by 2011 EVERY STATE IN THE UNION EXCEPT ONE would have some sort of concealed carry permit law. Tell that same person that there would be 4.99 states where one can carry concealed WITHOUT A PERMIT (the .99 is Montana).

Prior to 1968 no-one required a permit to purchase or carry a handgun (NYC and Chicago excepted) and you could even order them through the mail delivered to your home with no signature required. Nowadays, it is a misdemeanor in most states to carry a concealed handgun without a permit or even have it in your car, and about a half dozen states have made it a felony with mandatory prison time -- even if the handgun is unloaded and locked in the trunk of your car. Private party sales of handguns without official approval and registration of transfer is also a felony in several states.

Tell me again how we're winning.

[Byte Stryke]

Prior to 1968 no-one required a permit to purchase or carry a handgun (NYC and Chicago excepted) and you could even order them through the mail delivered to your home with no signature required. Nowadays, it is a misdemeanor in most states to carry a concealed handgun without a permit or even have it in your car, and about a half dozen states have made it a felony with mandatory prison time -- even if the handgun is unloaded and locked in the trunk of your car. Private party sales of handguns without official approval and registration of transfer is also a felony in several states.

Tell me again how we're winning.

I have to agree
repealing laws that should not have been in place to begin with is hardly "winning"

[hatidua]

I believe that, eventually, ... private party sales of handguns will be prohibited in all 50 states

While unfortunate, I suspect that is going to be the case.

[DavieD55]

It is not going to go down like that at all.

I believe that, eventually, concealed carry and private party sales of handguns will be prohibited in all 50 states and mere possession of an autoloading rifle or hi-cap magazine will be a felony offense. Gun ownership will go underground and these laws will be selectively enforced against specific targeted individuals and groups. I do not think there will ever be random house to house searches in this country, but I do believe that informers will be awarded cash payments to point out homes where unauthorized firearms are stored, and if you have an unauthorized firearm there will be no defense to that charge and mandatory minimum sentencing. Give it another 5 years.

+1

http://youtu.be/nu7l2hTjUzk
How many of these firearms depicted in this short video were illegal. I sure didn't see any "Assult Rifles"

[Zundfolge]

Tell me again how we're winning.
I didn't say we've won, all I'm saying is that the movement in gun laws in generally in OUR direction.

Yes we have a lot of crap to overcome, no we're nowhere near where I believe we should be. But we do have momentum on our side and I don't see any evidence of that changing anytime soon.

[cstone]

+1

http://youtu.be/nu7l2hTjUzk
How many of these firearms depicted in this short video were illegal. I sure didn't see any "Assult Rifles"

50 different states and 1000's of local jurisdictions. NYC is one of them and I would hope that no one reading this board is surprised to hear that the gun laws in NYC are extremely restrictive.

Were the cops wrong to enforce the laws?

Were the residents wrong to disobey the laws?

I'm glad we can still live where we choose. I like the gun laws in Colorado much more than the gun laws in the states on the east coast, where I used to live [ROFL1]