View Full Version : What's Up With This?
[Bang]Someone please enlighten me. I'm not trying to start a pissing match, but I have a problem I just can't put together. When I buy, sell or trade a firearm on this site, RMGO or any place local (not out of state) of course. Why do so many want a "bill of sale" or paper work completed for the deal? I purposely find what I am looking for on a local Colorado site or forum to keep from doing that very thing. I understand and agree to the fact that you show me yours and I'll show you mine. That is proof or residence, age and I factor in my gut feeling too. If I show you my CDL or CCW and you do the same for me, isn't that enough for a legal ftf deal here? What am I missing? I have even seen the bill of sale deal and then go to an FFL to complete the trade or transfer. When I buy, sell, or trade with a dealer I'm good to go with it. But a face to face from a local? I have passed up 2 hand guns since Thursday last week just for that reason.
Thanks for letting me have the space for my little RANT and sorry if I set some of you off by doing it,[BooHoo] but what say you on my little peeve?
sneakerd
07-10-2011, 11:05
That's just your personal deal that you want it off paper, and that's fine, most of us do. Just keep something in mind. LE has started demanding proof of ownership to firearms that they recover and impound in any situation. If you don't have a receipt showing that you bought the gun and are the owner of the gun, it's getting harder and harder to get your gun back from the PD. Hope that none of your guns get stolen, make records, show proof of ownership. If it is recovered, and you have no proof, you may not get it back.
Scanker19
07-10-2011, 11:19
Most people don't own tinfoil hats. I understand not wanting paperwork, but I don't think anyone here is reporting to the GOV who they sold a gun too. Its basically CYA.
Cause Colorado drivers licenses don't indicate if you're a criminal or not.
That's just your personal deal that you want it off paper, and that's fine, most of us do. Just keep something in my mind. LE has started demanding proof of ownership to firearms that they recover and impound in any situation. If you don't have a receipt showing that you bought the gun and are the owner of the gun, it's getting harder and harder to get your gun back from the PD. Hope that none of your guns get stolen, make records, show proof of ownership. If it is recovered, and you have no proof, you may not get it back.
Ok, Good point
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/canofworms.gif?t=1277002143 [Pop]
Some people feel that a BOS will protect them if a firearm they sold was used in a crime. Bad guy buys gun and of course uses his real name on the BOS. Bad guy shoots up a bus load of nuns and orphans. LE traces gun back to seller. Seller waves BOS and all is well.
Personally, I never require a BOS for a sale and have only ever had one seller ask for one.
As far as proof of ownership goes, just take a pic of your firearms (with serial #s) and keep in a safe place.
Scanker19
07-10-2011, 11:32
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/canofworms.gif?t=1277002143 [Pop]
Some people feel that a BOS will protect them if a firearm they sold was used in a crime. Bad guy buys gun and of course uses his real name on the BOS. Bad guy shoots up a bus load of nuns and orphans. LE traces gun back to seller. Seller waves BOS and all is well.
Personally, I never require a BOS for a sale and have only ever had one seller ask for one.
As far as proof of ownership goes, just take a pic of your firearms (with serial #s) and keep in a safe place.
I've never asked for one either, and probably never will. I'll do one if the owner wants within limits of privacy, of course. I figured my CCW should be enough to encourage anyone here i'm GTG.
Byte Stryke
07-10-2011, 11:40
I've never asked for one either, and probably never will. I'll do one if the owner wants within limits of privacy, of course. I figured my CCW should be enough to encourage anyone here i'm GTG.
this
sneakerd
07-10-2011, 11:45
The BOS has nothing to do (to me) with protecting the owner if a stolen gun is used in a crime and recovered by PD. It has to do with being able to get the gun back from the PD after recovery. My records suck, and I'm going to rectify that. Part of it is from not having receipts from FTF purchases/sales.
It might be I sell it to you.... You get bored and sell it to someone else then he sells it and so on
sneakerd
07-10-2011, 13:15
Happens to me all of the time!!
Jumpstart
07-10-2011, 15:23
I don't require a BOS, nor do I make a purchase if someone does.
ChadAmberg
07-10-2011, 15:32
I find a lot of folks are trained by both having lived in non-free states like on the coasts, or by TV, that you need papers, fingerprints, DNA samples, etc, or else every gun they've ever sold will be used in school shootings, and CSI will show up and arrest them if they don't have the bill of sale.
Even though in reality, the most I've ever heard was a simple call by the cops saying "Did you sell this gun?" "Yup." "Have a nice day."
Now, it's good to keep your own records of course, mostly for insurance purposes. I just happen to have software that helps with that... (see the link in my tagline)
GunsRBadMMMMKay
07-10-2011, 16:10
Sometimes I'll ask for a bos just to see if they'll offer one. Sorry, but if someone is completely adamant about not putting their name on a paper with that serial number then it might be stolen or recently used for something unpleasant. Plus I've heard stories of fools selling their guns then reporting them stolen to try to collect the insurance. Not saying I always ask for a bos or that I'll take it after I ask, just saying sometimes I do to gauge the response if something feels a little off or whatnot. And like already pointed out, it's not like most people go register their sale with the atf or anything it's just a receipt.....
BPTactical
07-10-2011, 16:25
I always get a BOS whether I am selling, trading or buying one of my personal items. You really don't want the alphabet boys inquiring about the wherabouts of an item and then not have documentation, unless you like being grilled.
If somebody wont do a BOS or show ID it sends up a real red flag for me.
CYA-cheap insurance
Would somebody give an example of what their bill of sale would say, please.
Thank you.
Zundfolge
07-10-2011, 20:50
Some people are more afraid they'll end up selling a gun to a gang banger than they are afraid that the government is keeping tabs on their gun purchases.
Byte Stryke
07-10-2011, 20:54
http://www.freebillofsaleform.org/gun.html
DOWNLOAD (http://www.freebillofsaleform.org/freebillofsaleform/Gun-bill-of-sale.rtf)
What exactly does a Bill of Sale protect you from?
Byte Stryke
07-10-2011, 22:04
What exactly does a Bill of Sale protect you from?
I guess if somehow they tracked a gun found at a crime scene to you, it would show date and method of disposition.
Might get the investigators off of your butt.
chances of that situation happening though are probably about the same as hitting the power-ball on your first try.
SideShow Bob
07-10-2011, 22:24
To the O.P.,
If you look anything like your avatar picture, I would want you to fill out a bill of sale, attach fingerprints and a hair sample for DNA purposes before selling! [ROFL1] just kidding, I couldn't resist.
To the O.P.,
If you look anything like your avatar picture, I would want you to fill out a bill of sale, attach fingerprints and a hair sample for DNA purposes before selling! [ROFL1] just kidding, I couldn't resist.OUCH[Help]
BREATHER
07-11-2011, 17:35
Most of the firearms I own, I bought from a "store" so my name is on all records. I need proof that I sold it "to you" if you chose to be a dumbass or just a shithole. Don't like it, don't be an assmonkey.. Plain and simple.
Most of the firearms I own, I bought from a "store" so my name is on all records. I need proof that I sold it "to you" if you chose to be a dumbass or just a shithole. Don't like it, don't be an assmonkey.. Plain and simple.
Not real sure what you are trying to say (or said) All I got is you must be the BAD ASS here. Right?
Not real sure what you are trying to say (or said) All I got is you must be the BAD ASS here. Right?
I don't think he was referring to YOU in particular, just the other person in a transaction.
I don't think he was referring to YOU in particular, just the other person in a transaction.
I think it means I'll be buying from someone else.
BREATHER
07-12-2011, 05:00
No, Brother, I ain't a badass anywhere... I am just doing it right and coverin' my ass. Just cuz people are gun owners on this forum or anywhere for that matter, don't mean they're honest or upright citizens...
BREATHER
07-12-2011, 05:02
I was not referring to anyone on this forum as a shithole. I meant that anyone I sell a gun to could do anything with it so I will CMA...
Byte Stryke
07-12-2011, 07:55
if it weren't so goddamn big I would use this in my sig line
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f189/The_Vampress/Jokes/1212514019149mt7.jpg
No, Brother, I ain't a badass anywhere... I am just doing it right and coverin' my ass. Just cuz people are gun owners on this forum or anywhere for that matter, don't mean they're honest or upright citizens...
You got that right. I have a friend right now that is a member here that just got taken for a ride. Can't go into any details yet, but he met a guy over the weekend to sell one of his guns. The guy looked it over and said " I'll take it". Then said I need to run to the ATM and get some cash. My friend said he would wait there and locked up the gun in his truck and went in the store to buy a bottle of water while the guy went to the ATM. When he got back to his truck to wait for the guy his window was broken out and the center console had been broken open. The gun was gone. I can think of several things he did wrong there as I am sure you can too. I think when you said
"don't mean they're honest or upright citizens"...[/QUOTE] you are right. Looks like even if someone is a member of a forum, shit still happens. The only records I keep in a trade or sale is the guys screen name and his real name when I look at his ID (if I can remember it) and I always get his cell # before we meet and check out his profile in the forum to get what I can. Looks like that's not enough.
Byte Stryke
07-12-2011, 08:43
You got that right. I have a friend right now that is a member here that just got taken for a ride. Can't go into any details yet, but he met a guy over the weekend to sell one of his guns. The guy looked it over and said " I'll take it". Then said I need to run to the ATM and get some cash. My friend said he would wait there and locked up the gun in his truck and went in the store to buy a bottle of water while the guy went to the ATM. When he got back to his truck to wait for the guy his window was broken out and the center console had been broken open. The gun was gone. I can think of several things he did wrong there as I am sure you can too. I think when you said
"don't mean they're honest or upright citizens"... you are right. Looks like even if someone is a member of a forum, shit still happens. The only records I keep in a trade or sale is the guys screen name and his real name when I look at his ID (if I can remember it) and I always get his cell # before we meet and check out his profile in the forum to get what I can. Looks like that's not enough.
actually, after hearing that, I think we do need details
like the alleged buyers forum name at least.
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