Mosque ban in TN

[Ronin13]

Is this bad? It may seem closed minded and a bit racist (or whatever it is called when you discriminate against a religion- although Islam is not really a religious ideal, it's a life ideal), but he makes a good point that Islam doesn't separate church and state so thus it's cool to ban them.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/herman-cain-backs-mosque-bans-152052930.html

I'm in the camp that disagrees with the practices and beliefs of most muslims, but as long as they leave me alone and don't berate me for not believing the same crap they do I can tolerate. It's the fanatical ones (like those who want to put this "Islamic Center" in Murfreesboro, even Cain says:

"I don't agree with what's happening because this isn't an innocent mosque,"

[Zundfolge]

This is why Islam is the perfect enemy of The West.

The ONLY way to successfully deal with these people requires us to abandon our own principals and values (end religious liberty ... followed up by genocide).

So if we lose, we lose. If we win, we lose.

The devil is pretty clever ain't he?


I'm in the camp that disagrees with the practices and beliefs of most muslims, but as long as they leave me alone and don't berate me for not believing the same crap they do I can tolerate. It's the fanatical ones (like those who want to put this "Islamic Center" in Murfreesboro...

The problem is that you don't understand Islam. Its not just the fanatical, radicals or extremists that believe that it is their place to kill or convert EVERYONE, its the mainstream root of their religion.

Eventually even the "nice" ones WILL try to kill you.

Islam is Arabic for "Submission".
Muslim is Arabic for "One Who Submits".

There is no middle ground. There is no tolerance. There is no coexistence (no matter how many bumper stickers one puts on their Prius). There is only Submission.

[Ronin13]

This is why Islam is the perfect enemy of The West.

The ONLY way to successfully deal with these people requires us to abandon our own principals and values (end religious liberty ... followed up by genocide).

So if we lose, we lose. If we win, we lose.

The devil is pretty clever ain't he?



The problem is that you don't understand Islam. Its not just the fanatical, radicals or extremists that believe that it is their place to kill or convert EVERYONE, its the mainstream root of their religion.

Eventually even the "nice" ones WILL try to kill you.

Islam is Arabic for "Submission".
Muslim is Arabic for "One Who Submits".

There is no middle ground. There is no tolerance. There is no coexistence (no matter how many bumper stickers one puts on their Prius). There is only Submission.

Oh I fully understand Islam- as a US Army Intelligence specialist for 4 years I had to understand, learn, and even practically become a scholar in it... especially since I had to teach soldiers about it! Of course I didn't mention that the Koran states everyone must be a Muslim, and it's the duty of every Muslim to find and convert or kill everyone.
I agree, and we have a catch 22 here with the issue that we can't deal with the problem correctly or we'll go against what we believe. Islam also believes that Jews are a problem, and Christianity is decadent. When will this stop? People say that they are peaceful, look at them in large groups: the week leading up to the battle of Fallujah, Iraq- involving the Blackwater contractors that were murdered, the entire crowd was involved in defacing and burning the bodies; yet when we kill jihadis we respect their bodies, well I say F*** that, treat them how they treat us. We capture them, cut their heads off on CNN; we ambush them and kill them, piss on their rotting corpses and set them ablaze. You don't fight a junkyard dog with ACLU rules, you fight by taking the leash off your bigger meaner dog.

[jscwerve]

Wow, what a way to take away rights and end the very foundation that this country was built on. Freedom of religion, eh, guess it worked for a while.

Dammit, those evil Amish want to live the lifestyle of their religion! We should ban their communities too!!!! Oh ya, and don't even get me started on those crazy Mormons!!

Christianity is the boodiest thing EVER to grace the face of this planet barring the gigantic meteor that killed everything (you creationists can ignore that last statement.)


Personally I think if we get rid of ALL organized religion this planet would be a much better place.

[UberTong]

This is why Islam is the perfect enemy of The West.

The ONLY way to successfully deal with these people requires us to abandon our own principals and values (end religious liberty ... followed up by genocide).

So if we lose, we lose. If we win, we lose.

The devil is pretty clever ain't he?



The problem is that you don't understand Islam. Its not just the fanatical, radicals or extremists that believe that it is their place to kill or convert EVERYONE, its the mainstream root of their religion.

Eventually even the "nice" ones WILL try to kill you.

Islam is Arabic for "Submission".
Muslim is Arabic for "One Who Submits".

There is no middle ground. There is no tolerance. There is no coexistence (no matter how many bumper stickers one puts on their Prius). There is only Submission.


Amen. +10

[Zundfolge]

Wow, what a way to take away rights and end the very foundation that this country was built on. Freedom of religion, eh, guess it worked for a while.
That's kind of my point. Freedom of religion only works if all religions are ok with peaceful coexistence. Once you have one religion that orders its adherents to kill or convert everyone, then that freedom doesn't work (and don't give me this crap about how Christianity is just as bad. ANYONE who tries to force anyone else to convert to Christianity is BREAKING THE RULES of Christianity ... whereas the Rules of Islam ORDER Muslims to kill or convert everyone). But freedom of religion is a basic tenant of western culture (one I happen to like a lot) so we're in a catch 22 with Islam.


Christianity is the boodiest thing EVER to grace the face of this planet barring the gigantic meteor that killed everything (you creationists can ignore that last statement.)That is just assinine. Clearly you know nothing about Christianity, human history or any other world religion for that matter.



Personally I think if we get rid of ALL organized religion this planet would be a much better place.Yeah because Atheists would never commit mass murder (pay no attention to the hundreds of millions murdered in the 20th century by Atheist Communists).

[UberTong]

You are spot on Zundfolge.

[Zundfolge]

You are spot on Zundfolge.
Now if I could just get the entire world organized behind me ... like some sort of messiah ... [ROFL1]

[UberTong]

Now if I could just get the entire world organized behind me ... like some sort of messiah ... [ROFL1]

I'm subscribing buddy, yahweh, emmannuel...[Bow]

[blacklabel]

The government has no right to govern what religion anyone practices. If you think that these individuals are engaging in activities as terrorists then nail them on existing laws. You don't need to create new ones.

It sounds to me like Herman Cain is talking out of both sides of his mouth to gain votes honestly.

[Hoosier]

At least atheists wouldn't kill millions of people in the name of religion.

H.

[UberTong]

Unlike Islam, I don't care what others practice in this country. If they just want to practice any religion, peacefully, I have zero problem. But I go back to Zundfolges statement, they don't want to practice Islam peacefully here. They want to instill it in our culture, erase whats ours, and make us SUBMIT.

Ha1vvS1fOtQ

[Mtn.man]

It is TN so I wouldn't be surprised to see these guys show up

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Ku+Klux+Klan+Holds+Annual+Gathering+Tennessee+10hV sTg4SYcl.jpg

[jscwerve]

That's kind of my point. Freedom of religion only works if all religions are ok with peaceful coexistence. Once you have one religion that orders its adherents to kill or convert everyone, then that freedom doesn't work (and don't give me this crap about how Christianity is just as bad. ANYONE who tries to force anyone else to convert to Christianity is BREAKING THE RULES of Christianity ... whereas the Rules of Islam ORDER Muslims to kill or convert everyone). But freedom of religion is a basic tenant of western culture (one I happen to like a lot) so we're in a catch 22 with Islam.

That is just assinine. Clearly you know nothing about Christianity, human history or any other world religion for that matter.


Yeah because Atheists would never commit mass murder (pay no attention to the hundreds of millions murdered in the 20th century by Atheist Communists).


Ya, now I'm an atheist? Didn't know that. I'll go tell my family now.
No, I'm not an atheist, but my personal opinion on organized religion is not a good one. Was it needed at some point in history? Possibly, but that is debateable. The way it looks to me now is a propaganda tool to get the votes of the feeble minded that believe whatever they hear, and to push a personal agenda on other people while at the same time wasting money on pointless causes.

And I guess I'm just some ol moron that knows nothing about world history or religion. I really should get my money back for those theology classes. I admit I probably mis-spoke when I said that christianity was the bloodiest thing, while I should have said religion in general. Yes, that is debatable also with the world wars, slave trade, and wars fought over land/politics, etc. It can't be denied though that throughout history millions upon millions have been killed in the name of organized religion. Many for the simple problem of symantics. The "my god is better than yours" or the "convert or die" excuse gets old after a few thousand years. Hence my complete lack of faith in any type of organized religion. Although it may be wrong in christianity to "force to convert", a very large amount of the christians in the past didn't get that memo.

Having a law/ban/whatever you want to call it on the books would be just another step into destroying this country.

I was playing the devils advocate, I could give two squirts of warm piss what religion someone is. I do think being called a godless moron was a bit uncalled for though. There are two sides to everything, and if you believe that christianity is peaceful and doesn't have an extremely bloody history, you need to do some reasearch.


I'm done with this subject, it can be argued endlessly until everyone is dead from old age or boredom. (or religious war!! (just kidding [LOL]))

[Irving]

Religion wasn't the cause of anything, it is just a scape goat.

[Byte Stryke]

religion is a tool for the greedy to manipulate the masses.


"it is God's will!"

or

"God is Great!"


regardless.
Murder in the name of any religion only serves to prostitute the faithful.

[BPTactical]

It is not so much the Muslim/Islamic religion that has TN in a tizzy but rather the Sharia law that accompanies it. There was a story today on a Judge that passed some ruling how Sharia law is contrary to US law and therefore has no standing. Kudos to the Judge.
Islam is kind of all inclusive in that it is not just a religion but a system of beliefs on how one should live life and laws to abide by.

I have no problem with somebody practicing their version of religion but when beliefs of said religion are so against common values then yes, it is a problem.
Beliefs such as beheading those that are not of the same faith, stoning your women for trivial reasons etc.......

[theGinsue]

At least atheists wouldn't kill millions of people in the name of religion.

H.
Sorry to tell you, but technically atheism IS a religion.

[mcantar18c]

Islam is a religion of peace...

(warning: graphic)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd3_1310954791

[palepainter]

That video was just beautiful and peaceful.

Political correctness is allowing the enemy to set up shop right in our back yards. I do not think that our founding fathers considered that a religious sect would be so determined to destroy everyone other than those who were Muslim.

Until I see Muslims coming forward condemning acts of violence against us, and they thoroughly convince me. My guard is up.

[Ranger]

Christianity is the boodiest thing EVER to grace the face of this planet barring the gigantic meteor that killed everything (you creationists can ignore that last statement.)

Spoken like a true atheist. Perhaps you are are agnostic, but that last statement really says otherwise.



Personally I think if we get rid of ALL organized religion this planet would be a much better place.

Whether you choose to believe or not, and to make sure I'm stating my position clearly - I do, at the very core of religion are generally good values and if belief in those values make a person a better person then I think religion has served a good purpose. Without these values then murder would be OK because there are no societal norms based on religion that would have banned it. Many laws of this country and in many ways this country itself could have been lawless without Christianity.

Since the basic principal of most religions is acceptance, love and compassion, these are all apparently bad things to you (and others that believe the same thing). In order to support your side of the equation you are quick to point out how the various religions have committed heinous acts but of course fail to point out those committed by the non religious. That is the same as saying all priests are child molesters when, in fact, they represent a VERY small percentage of priests but be sure to put the spotlight on those that are in order to make your point that region is corrupt and evil.

How many poor have you fed or clothed in your lifetime? And I don't mean that you gave to charity, but actually provided for them? This is the mission of many religious orders and man aren't they evil for doing it?

So go on believing your double rainbows or whatever the heck else you believe in and I'll keep putting my FAITH behind the core values that people of all walks tend to support more - like doing my best to be an honest, forgiving and loving person but accepting that I am human and will falter.

Atheists always sound like liberals to me (and I believe most probably are), in that the only information they have is their talking points that justify their position but know absolutely nothing about the actual topics or issues themselves. Now you may not be an atheist yourself, but you sure hate religion for no real reason other than your talking points.

Oh, and by the way, I was a hard core atheist for a long time, so I'm not speaking as someone who doesn't understand their position and rationale.

An in order to keep on topic, I believe in freedom of religion and I know that muslims are FAR more peaceful than the radicals that are brought to the forefront. How many other constitutional rights should we give up? Might as well throw out the 2nd amendment too, since we are just tearing up the constitution.

[Ranger]

No way the inquisition, crusades, other messed up Christian causes killed that many.

And don't forget that while the inquisition was wrong (yes, Christians can be wrong of course), the crusades were the Catholic reaction to the Muslims killing all who didn't convert - so thank God for the crusades or we would all be worshiping Muhammad!

[Zundfolge]

Whether you choose to believe or not, and to make sure I'm stating my position clearly - I do, at the very core of religion are generally good values and if belief in those values make a person a better person then I think religion has served a good purpose.
I'm a Christian and I have absolutely no problem with any religion EXCEPT Islam.

Islam is not just a religion, its also a political, economic and legal system. It CAN NOT coexist peacefully with other religions, political systems, economic systems or legal systems. Period. This is by design.

EVERY other religion on Earth has within it the ability to peacefully coexist with its non believing neighbors (that doesn't mean they always do, but it is still possible). ONLY Islam orders its adherents to kill or convert all of humanity and establish a global theocracy.

Islam is an existential threat to every other belief system on the planet.

[Ranger]

EVERY other religion on Earth has within it the ability to peacefully coexist with its non believing neighbors (that doesn't mean they always do, but it is still possible). ONLY Islam orders its adherents to kill or convert all of humanity and establish a global theocracy.

I'm not versed well enough in Islam to agree or disagree with you. I have read only small portions of the Quran and haven't see this. I do know that Muslims are followers of Islam and I've known many good Muslims.

[Ronin13]

Ok time to drop some scholarly knowledge about our burkha wearing, towel headed friends...
In the early years (remember the Qua'ran doesn't go in chronological order) of Mohammad's life he was peaceful and considered all those of the book (Holy Bible, Torah) to be tolerated and accepted as worshiping the same God. He stated that the Jew and the Christian were true believers and that they should be granted peace. Those who didn't believe (this included Taoists, Buddhists, etc.) were to be given a chance to learn the ways of God. Later in life Mohammad became very rich, very powerful, and had his own army in tow. He became a very wealthy warlord in what is now Jordan and his tone soon changed. That is when he started preaching that those who didn't follow the way of Islam, and those that didn't accept Allah as the one true God were vipers and must be rooted and killed in the same way (cut off the head). The belief behind cutting off the head was so the victim would be unable to find paradise (heaven) or God. He preached for years that all believers of Allah (read: Muslims) must teach the non-believers (by this point defined as non-Muslims) the ways of Islam and have them call out "There is no God but God, and Mohammad is his prophet," in order to convert. Those that were steadfast in their non-belief of Islam and it's ways were to be found and killed.
Jihad- Holy war in the name of Islam, at first was defend your belief from those trying to eradicate it, later became going after those who don't follow Islam. Near the end of his life Mohammad issued a Fatwa against the Roman Catholic church and told his followers to root them out of the Holy Land (modern day Israel). Then he soon spoke out against the Jews. Thus that is where these nut cases get their antisemitism today.
Trust not one of these cowardly heathens:

“If you have made a treaty with infidels who are honorable, do not break the treaty until after the holy months are past. Then fight them and kill them wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and ambush them... after all, honorable men deserve to be betrayed, ambushed, and murdered!"

"And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

There is no other interpretation of this. It is not like the Bible where it can be interpreted metaphorically, or contextually... many Imams I have met have said "the Qua'ran is not open to interpretation, it is a literal edict from Mohammad himself and will be followed to the letter, otherwise one is not a true Muslim." I am weary of all who follow Islam, and trust none because they all smile now, but one day... It was taught earlier when the crusades were going on, "wait until the armies of Allah are strong, then strike. If not strong enough, be peaceable with the non-believers until you gain enough strength to destroy them." -Tactic of Takiya

[Zundfolge]

I've known many good Muslims.

Same here. I have known a handful of Muslims for years and they openly denounce the violence of the Jihadists.

Therefore they are either heritics of their own faith, or practicing Takiya.

Therein lies the problem. Since lying to infidels (a component of Takiya) is not only permitted, but in some cases ordered, you really can't trust anyone that considers themselves a follower of Mohammad and in submission to Allah.


Again this all points back to my original point, which is that the only way the west can ever effectively deal with Islam is to abandon our own core values and just wipe them out. I think some here have misunderstood me and think I am CALLING for this genocide ... I am not. I would rather western culture fall than abandon our principals.

I'm just pointing out the conundrum.

[Ronin13]

Same here. I have known a handful of Muslims for years and they openly denounce the violence of the Jihadists.

Therefore they are either heritics of their own faith, or practicing Takiya.

Therein lies the problem. Since lying to infidels (a component of Takiya) is not only permitted, but in some cases ordered, you really can't trust anyone that considers themselves a follower of Mohammad and in submission to Allah.


Again this all points back to my original point, which is that the only way the west can ever effectively deal with Islam is to abandon our own core values and just wipe them out. I think some here have misunderstood me and think I am CALLING for this genocide ... I am not. I would rather western culture fall than abandon our principals.

I'm just pointing out the conundrum.

This is a conundrum! What do we do when there are "enough" Muslims in America that they decide now is the time to take over and enact Sharia Law into our legal system? How about when they make our wives, girlfriends, daughters, etc start wearing burkhas? What happens to those of us who refuse to submit to Islam and refuse to pray 5x a day? Freedom is fragile and I tell you one thing, if I have to lead the anti-Islam revolt whenever they do take over I'll say this: I will die a free man, I will not live in submission!

[BPTactical]

This is a conundrum! What do we do when there are "enough" Muslims in America that they decide now is the time to take over and enact Sharia Law into our legal system? How about when they make our wives, girlfriends, daughters, etc start wearing burkhas? What happens to those of us who refuse to submit to Islam and refuse to pray 5x a day? Freedom is fragile and I tell you one thing, if I have to lead the anti-Islam revolt whenever they do take over I'll say this: I will die a free man, I will not live in submission!

What do we do if ????????
Lead will fly.

Shit, my Ol Lady will kick their ass if they try to make her wear a Burkha!
That right there should scare the hell outta them.

[bellavite1]

Ya, now I'm an atheist? Didn't know that. I'll go tell my family now.
No, I'm not an atheist, but my personal opinion on organized religion is not a good one. Was it needed at some point in history? Possibly, but that is debateable. The way it looks to me now is a propaganda tool to get the votes of the feeble minded that believe whatever they hear, and to push a personal agenda on other people while at the same time wasting money on pointless causes.

And I guess I'm just some ol moron that knows nothing about world history or religion. I really should get my money back for those theology classes. I admit I probably mis-spoke when I said that christianity was the bloodiest thing, while I should have said religion in general. Yes, that is debatable also with the world wars, slave trade, and wars fought over land/politics, etc. It can't be denied though that throughout history millions upon millions have been killed in the name of organized religion. Many for the simple problem of symantics. The "my god is better than yours" or the "convert or die" excuse gets old after a few thousand years. Hence my complete lack of faith in any type of organized religion. Although it may be wrong in christianity to "force to convert", a very large amount of the christians in the past didn't get that memo.

Having a law/ban/whatever you want to call it on the books would be just another step into destroying this country.

I was playing the devils advocate, I could give two squirts of warm piss what religion someone is. I do think being called a godless moron was a bit uncalled for though. There are two sides to everything, and if you believe that christianity is peaceful and doesn't have an extremely bloody history, you need to do some reasearch.


I'm done with this subject, it can be argued endlessly until everyone is dead from old age or boredom. (or religious war!! (just kidding [LOL]))

+1: every religion claims to be the ONLY real religion.Everybody else is wrong and they are THE DEVIL[Help].
This is because economical power comes with religion and everybody wants the power.
Some people at the bottom may genuinely believe, but the ones on top know way too well what they are doing.

[Zundfolge]

+1: every religion claims to be the ONLY real religion.Everybody else is wrong and they are THE DEVIL[Help].
I never understood why people object to this. Why would I believe in a religion if I didn't believe it was right?

Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between "If you disagree with me, when you die you'll got to hell." and "If you disagree with me I'll kill you!" In the case of Islam, its the latter (and any Christian that claims that second position is in direct violation of Christ's teachings).


This is because economical power comes with religion and everybody wants the power.
Some people at the bottom may genuinely believe, but the ones on top know way too well what they are doing.This assumes that YOUR religious belief (which appears to be atheism) is the "ONLY real religion".

Most folk (top to bottom) that claim a religion say they believe it because they actually DO believe it. That's the essence of faith. Your glib cynicism notwithstanding.

[Ronin13]

I never understood why people object to this. Why would I believe in a religion if I didn't believe it was right?

Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between "If you disagree with me, when you die you'll got to hell." and "If you disagree with me I'll kill you!" In the case of Islam, its the latter (and any Christian that claims that second position is in direct violation of Christ's teachings).

This assumes that YOUR religious belief (which appears to be atheism) is the "ONLY real religion".

Most folk (top to bottom) that claim a religion say they believe it because they actually DO believe it. That's the essence of faith. Your glib cynicism notwithstanding.

What about those of us who don't believe in the mass religious system, and think Atheism is a bit too extreme in the other direction? I don't subscribe to any mass ideal system but do learn about them and base my beliefs on the things I like (such as Norse Paganism- that one works because they place a deity on different aspects of the world and life). Why is it that everyone who stands against major religions gets pegged with being an atheist? If I were to claim no beliefs I would immediately call myself a nihilist (for those unsure what that is basically you believe in NOTHING).

[Zundfolge]

What about those of us who don't believe in the mass religious system, and think Atheism is a bit too extreme in the other direction?
You're probably right. Agnostic would probably be a safer and more polite guess.

And I can certainly understand those with issues with organized religion (I myself am an Antidenominationalist Christian).

Thing is, most often those that go down the "all organized religion is teh evilz" are angry, proselytizing Atheists.

[bellavite1]

I never understood why people object to this. Why would I believe in a religion if I didn't believe it was right?

Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between "If you disagree with me, when you die you'll got to hell." and "If you disagree with me I'll kill you!" In the case of Islam, its the latter (and any Christian that claims that second position is in direct violation of Christ's teachings).

This assumes that YOUR religious belief (which appears to be atheism) is the "ONLY real religion".

Most folk (top to bottom) that claim a religion say they believe it because they actually DO believe it. That's the essence of faith. Your glib cynicism notwithstanding.
Yes, I am an Atheist and a Satanist (there is no conflict here, just look up modern Satanism).
And no, it is not a religion, but rather a philosophy: an Atheist believe the there is no senzient entity ruling the world or deciding your destiny, no heaven or hell, therefore you are the maker of your own destiny and fully responsible for your life and what you do with it.
If there was a God, He would know your past, present and future, because He is past present and future.
This would negate the freedom of choice in your life, because the future not only is already written, but has been created by God Himself by own act of existing.
With that being said, if you want to believe, it is your own business and I have no right to try to change your mind.
And nobody should try to change mine, be it by flipping me off when I drive in my pentagram emblemed car, come to my door to tell me I am wrong and I WILL burn in hell, or try to behead me because I have a pentagram tattooed on my chest.
Different religions have different ways to "change your mind", but the whole concept is disrispectful and any attempt to impose your views on me is an act of violence, be it moral or phisycal.
Different approaches will be addressed in like manner, and, depending on your approach, I might flip you back off, engage you in a theological and philosophical conversation (and trust me, you do not want to go there with me[Coffee]) or just fight you back with every last bullet I have.
Now, about that bachelor party and them titties...[Tooth]

[UberTong]

I will accept anyone here, in the USA as long as they are accepting of the ideals and values embodied here. If not, if you want to come to this country and only buy into the positives with the intent to take, change, convert, this country and its people for the worse, you can dodge lead on the way out.

IMHO, if we allow Islam leniency in our culture because of how 'pc paralyzed' our country has become, something terrible will happen on our soil in my lifetime, worse than 9-11. They will infiltrate our society as 'nice Muslims' until the day comes and Allah calls for the destruction of infidels at the right time, and the west falls, hard. If that makes me a racist or a bigot, I sign. I believe in God, a higher power and frankly I'm not 100% sold on religion as a whole sometimes either, its a lifelong struggle for me called faith. But I still see too much beauty, too much good, and too many good people to think all of this world, was an accident.

[Ronin13]

You're probably right. Agnostic would probably be a safer and more polite guess.

And I can certainly understand those with issues with organized religion (I myself am an Antidenominationalist Christian).

Thing is, most often those that go down the "all organized religion is teh evilz" are angry, proselytizing Atheists.

Well that can be true, but being neither agnostic or atheist (raised Protestant Christian) I look at the fact that all organized religion leads to irrational and violent problems... more have killed in the name of God than anything else (Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Early Years of Islam, any conflict involving Israel, GWOT, etc.). Does it mean all organized religion is evil? no, but masses worshiping some deity or another does lead to animosity, head butting, and eventually violence- the problem is historically the most violent have been Muslims. And that is where I draw the line. Modern day religions do not advocate conversion or murder as the only alternatives to their ideals... You will never see a Jewish congregation force their members to pull all their women out of school and force them to stay home and tend to the household. And you certainly wouldn't see some Presbyterians stoning someone to death because they committed adultery. Islam is not a religion of peace as some Muslims would try and have you believe.

[UberTong]

Yes, I am an Atheist and a Satanist (there is no conflict here, just look up modern Satanism).


Honest question here, as I know nothing about your beliefs. What is your goal worshiping Satan? Do you get a place in hell just a Christian would in Heaven? Who do you fight for in the end? As a Satanist do you wish for the way of Satan to take place on earth, i.e. anarchy, complete loss of morality on Earth etc?

No questions here meant to be aggressive or anything but inquisitive, I've never spoke to a Satanist.

[Ronin13]

Honest question here, as I know nothing about your beliefs. What is your goal worshiping Satan? Do you get a place in hell just a Christian would in Heaven? Who do you fight for in the end? As a Satanist do you wish for the way of Satan to take place on earth, i.e. anarchy, complete loss of morality on Earth etc?

No questions here meant to be aggressive or anything but inquisitive, I've never spoke to a Satanist.

What Uber said... I'm curious too. I was raised my whole childhood thinking Satan is wrong, God/Jesus are right, you don't want to go to hell, heaven is the place to be, etc etc. But thinking about it, if God forbids random fornication, drugs (?), and polygamy then would it be safe to surmise that hell is just one great big drug filled orgy? That can't be so bad, can it?

[Zundfolge]

With that being said, if you want to believe, it is your own business and I have no right to try to change your mind.
And nobody should try to change mine, be it by flipping me off when I drive in my pentagram emblemed car, come to my door to tell me I am wrong and I WILL burn in hell, or try to behead me because I have a pentagram tattooed on my chest.
Different religions have different ways to "change your mind", but the whole concept is disrispectful and any attempt to impose your views on me is an act of violence, be it moral or phisycal.
Again, I don't understand how polite discussion is disrespectful or even an "imposition of views".

I agree 100% that it would be wrong to flip you off or try to kill you because of your beliefs. But if I believed I had discovered the answer to life's problems and/or a way to spend eternity in paradise I'd be a real dick if I DIDN'T try to share that with you. Granted it would be wrong to use force (or for that matter be obnoxious about it once I've been told you're not interested). It just seems to me that lumping reasonable and polite prosletizing in the same category as armed conquest is intellectually dishonest.

I see no difference in sharing one's faith with others (again in a non coercive fashion) than sharing one's favorite recipes.



Honest question here, as I know nothing about your beliefs. What is your goal worshiping Satan?
At the risk of appearing to speak for bellavite1, modern Satanism isn't really worship of Satan. A more accurate description of it would be a stylized form of hedonism and non-conformity blended with a strong libertarian attitude toward ones spirituality.

I think most of the time when someone hears "Satanist" they assume "Occultist". Most of the Satanists I've known are decent folk that just wear a bit too much black :p

[bellavite1]

Honest question here, as I know nothing about your beliefs. What is your goal worshiping Satan? Do you get a place in hell just a Christian would in Heaven? Who do you fight for in the end? As a Satanist do you wish for the way of Satan to take place on earth, i.e. anarchy, complete loss of morality on Earth etc?

No questions here meant to be aggressive or anything but inquisitive, I've never spoke to a Satanist.
No problem.
A Satanist does not worship Satan: if you believe in Satan God is implied.
Modern Satanism is a form of Atheism.
As mentioned before, most religions out there will profess that their religion is the only one, and everything else, including the lack of belief in a God, is the making of the Devil, Satan himself.
Hence, somewhat ironically, the name Satanism, not anlike the 1% status in the biker world.
A Satanist believes that , without Heaven or Hell, your life is over when you die, and your consciusness with it (which is somewhat a peaceful feeling to me).
When you die you go back in Nature's cycle, by decomposing and therefore creating new life.
Your life is the only one you'll get and your main responsibility is to live it fully, as long as you don't hurt others in the process.
A Satanist does not believe in offering the other cheek, if you are bothering no one and somebody slaps you inthe face, destroy him.
Last but not least, a Satanist does not proselithize (and I might be breaking this rule here), because everybody is entitled to their happines, and if your religion gives you happines, you have the right to believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Bible

[bellavite1]

Again, I don't understand how polite discussion is disrespectful or even an "imposition of views".

I agree 100% that it would be wrong to flip you off or try to kill you because of your beliefs. But if I believed I had discovered the answer to life's problems and/or a way to spend eternity in paradise I'd be a real dick if I DIDN'T try to share that with you. Granted it would be wrong to use force (or for that matter be obnoxious about it once I've been told you're not interested). It just seems to me that lumping reasonable and polite prosletizing in the same category as armed conquest is intellectually dishonest.

I see no difference in sharing one's faith with others (again in a non coercive fashion) than sharing one's favorite recipes.



At the risk of appearing to speak for bellavite1, modern Satanism isn't really worship of Satan. A more accurate description of it would be a stylized form of hedonism and non-conformity blended with a strong libertarian attitude toward ones spirituality.

I think most of the time when someone hears "Satanist" they assume "Occultist". Most of the Satanists I've known are decent folk that just wear a bit too much black :p
I just don't believe that I would be well received at your door trying to convince you you wasted your life believing in something that it is not there and feeling guilty for desires and feelings that are natural to any human being.
It gets a little more personal than my Spaghetti alla Carbonara recipe...[ROFL1]
As far as your description of a Satanist, it is fairly accurate, but it gets a little deeper than that (see above).

[UberTong]

Thanks for sharing, honestly. And shit man, tell your fellow believers..umm...participants in Satanism to change the name and you will have a crowd from the sounds of it. [ROFL1]

[Zundfolge]

I just don't believe that I would be well received at your door trying to convince you you wasted your life believing in something that it is not there and feeling guilty for desires and feelings that are natural to any human being.
It gets a little more personal than my Spaghetti alla Carbonara recipe...[ROFL1]
As far as your description of a Satanist, it is fairly accurate, but it gets a little deeper than that (see above).
I don't think there's anything wrong with telling someone "Hey, I've discovered a wonderful way to live and believe ... it makes me happy and works real well for me, so if you're looking for something you might give this a go." Where it breaks down is when they reply "No thank you." and you don't just drop it.

As a Christian I am only given one job by God and that is to spread the Gospel (which is Greek for "Good News" ... and who could object to Good News?).

Over the years too many Christians have twisted that to mean they need to force conversions and/or beat people over the head with the entire teachings of Christ (or even worse, harangue people over their sins). This is demonstrably wrong ... basically all I should do is offer to share what I know and not pester people further that aren't interested (but you're not going to know who is not interested if you don't ask).

This brings me back to my original point. Satanists and Christians can easily be neighbors ... share a meal ... have kids that play together in the park... engage in commerce, etc. Same thing goes for Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Zoroastrians etc.

There is only ONE kid that can't play nice in the sandbox and still be in obedience to their own religion, and that's Mohammad's crew.

[Ronin13]

Satanists and Christians can easily be neighbors ... share a meal ... have kids that play together in the park... engage in commerce, etc. Same thing goes for Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Zoroastrians etc.

There is only ONE kid that can't play nice in the sandbox and still be in obedience to their own religion, and that's Mohammad's crew.

Truer words were never spoken. I politely ask Jehova's Witnesses to leave my property, I'm not interested, they still try to push their ideals on me until I say "I asked nicely, please leave, I'm not interested.... I own guns..."
When the day comes that some towel headed, camel sodomizer arrives at my house with his message of "convert or die" I won't ask him to leave politely!
Satanism (while the name is misleading) sure doesn't sound all too bad, be happy, live, die, provide for new life. Sounds to me like what happened to Paganism during the era of Roman Catholic purge... Pagan=Satan, therefore evil. When in real life, Paganism is the sacred worship of Earth and all living things (with more respect given to women than most religions of that time). Hence why I really like, and consider following Norse Paganism. Besides, Mohammad thinks he soo cool with his Wahhabi bandits... try and face off against guys named Odin, Thor, Tyr and Frigg (names still in use today BTW: Odin's Day= Wednesday, Tyr's Day= Tuesday, Thor's Day= Thursday, Frigg's Day= Friday).

[Ranger]

Well, this has proven the concept of never talking about religion, sex or politics. I think the only reason why most of our political discussions don't go like this is because most of us are on the same side of the fence on it.

I choose many paths and accept many things in my life. I accept that gays can do whatever with whomever they want and I choose to believe they will burn for it - this being said I have quite a few gay friends who I adore but just don't agree with. I accept that liberals are entitled to their view but I believe they are wrong and I choose to not associate with them. I accept bellavite1 (meaning Beautiful Vine) has every right to believe in and practice Satanism but I choose to disassociate myself with Satanists - and while bellavite1 paints a very rosy picture of Satanism, I can tell you I knew many where I grew up who were true occultists and even as an athiest at the time I found it a foul practice. This isn't to say the bellavite1 is an occultist - by his own admission - perhaps it is just my own ignorance towards their non occultist practices that keeps me from acceptance of it.

So, that being said, and pointing back to the original theme of the thread, all of these folks have a right to believe in what they want, including the Islamist. And, Ronin, if they do "rise up" and defeat us then while it is a sad day it is "destiny" (and not in the God meaning of that word), perhaps that destiny is what causes the sheeple to actually stand up and fight for their rights - and maybe this isn't a bad thing. I have had my fill of killing to go and start a new crusade against Islam for no other reason than the Quran.

You know, the Bible says "go forth and make Christians of all nations" and while there are some religious believers that do, the vast majority do not (and really, how harmful is it to do so?), how can I believe that Muslims don't do the same thing and sit on the fence on certain scriptural topics like killing all who do not believe? Wasn't there a movie about judging those who were going to commit a crime before it ever happened - Minority Report?

When we see the uprising of Islam in the U.S. and get much closer to the brink then I'm right there with you Ronin, I'll gladly man my weapon and die free (which also goes for the threat to any of my other rights as well), but until then I'm not going to commit genocide just in case.

[cofi]

you guys are wildly racist against muslims.........lot of misinformation in here all the muslims i know are just normal dudes not part of some sort of terrorist network lots of fox news watchers in here

[UberTong]

you guys are wildly racist against muslims.........lot of misinformation in here all the muslims i know are just normal dudes not part of some sort of terrorist network lots of fox news watchers in here

Well then its okay, because you're muslim friends are super cool. Look up Anjem Choudary. He wants our blood in the name of Islam, as a Muslim. If I'm racist because I guard a set of ideals and a lifestyle in this country that I love, sign this brother up, I'm a racist in your eyes and it really doesn't matter to me what you think. Muslims are racist too, anything not Muslim is 'less than' and must submit or else...

[jake]

Well then its okay, because you're muslim friends are super cool. Look up Anjem Choudary. He wants our blood in the name of Islam, as a Muslim. If I'm racist because I guard a set of ideals and a lifestyle in this country that I love, sign this brother up, I'm a racist in your eyes and it really doesn't matter to me what you think. Muslims are racist too, anything not Muslim is 'less than' and must submit or else...
Look up Fred Phelps, etc etc. I try not to judge an entire group on a YouTube video made by one particular crackpot.

[BPTactical]

you guys are wildly racist against muslims.........lot of misinformation in here all the muslims i know are just normal dudes not part of some sort of terrorist network lots of fox news watchers in here

Islam is not to be trusted. PERIOD
I know a gent from the eastern coast of Africa, he is Christian. We were discussing Islam one day and he made an interesting statement. "Americans don't understand, you are being quietly invaded by Muslims. I had many many Muslims that I knew at home and while they may claim to be a friend they will always be Muslim and unless you are, you are less, an Infidel."
I was just listening to a very interesting oration on the Mosque uproar in TN. Over one hundred mosques in the US were covertly infiltrated by US entities. They were monitored for adherence to Sharia law and reference and support to Jihaad.
Eighty one out of one hundred exhibited adherence to Sharia and support for Jihaad.
81 out of 100.
Kind of like southeast Asia. Out of 38 species or so of snakes 35 are venomous. How do you tell the venomous ones apart from the non?
With that kind of ratio you can't afford to be cautious.

[Zundfolge]

you guys are wildly racist against muslims.........lot of misinformation in here all the muslims i know are just normal dudes not part of some sort of terrorist network lots of fox news watchers in here
Islam is not a race.

You lose.

Furthermore, if there is a "lot of misinformation in here" on Islam, I challenge you to point it out ... please cite Sura and Verse.


Look up Fred Phelps, etc etc...

The difference is, I can prove within the context of Christian teaching that Fred Phelps is wrong. Likewise I can prove that within the context of Islamic teaching that Anjem Choudary's position is both correct and mainstream.


I think the overall point I keep trying to get to is that one of the wonderful things about Western Civilization is pluralism ... religious freedom ... tolerance. Islam is incompatible with these things and thus is incompatible with Western Civilization. One or the other will have to yield.

[CMP_5.56]

you guys are wildly racist against muslims.........lot of misinformation in here all the muslims i know are just normal dudes not part of some sort of terrorist network lots of fox news watchers in here

Please look up the definition of the term racist. Being a racist implies you feel your race is superior to another. So to talk about religion, and more to the point, a societal belief structure, (Islam is a societal belief structure, not a religion) has nothing at all to do with racism. Muslims make it a point to tell westerners that not all muslims are the same race. So by definition alone, to call people on here racist for not agreeing with Islam is bullshit.

Furthermore, there is all this talk about our constitutional rights, and the freedom of religion. To say that not allowing a societal belief structure into our country is not the same as denying a religion. Part of the bill of rights and the constitution that should be common sense, is the fact all rights are based on you living within our laws. Those who chose to live outside our laws forfeit said rights. Basically, you have those rights as long as they do not infringe on other peoples rights. If we are to believe what we are told, Islam infringes on our laws and our rights.

I know quite a few Muslims, and they are nice people. I will admit, i am always waiting for the other shoe to drop though.

I personally have a belief system that is based heavily in Asatru. (Norse paganism) Though i grew up a Christian. When one looks at religions of the world there is a common thread in all of them. Christians call it the golden rule, do unto others, as you would have others do unto you. Every religion, eastern ones as well, have this common sense view of right and wrong. They also have the same view of humans being mistake prone. And all state that when you make those mistake you seek to better yourself.

All religions, except Islam that is. I have not read the full Qua' ran, but I have read enough. It plainly states, which was quoted above, that all infidels are to be converted, or killed. And it is the only religious text, that I have knowledge of, that states such a thing.

Edited to add:

Further thought on quoted text leads me to believe it is the most racist statement in this thread. Obviously, you are the one here that believes all Muslims are middle eastern.

[UberTong]

Islam is not a race.

You lose.

Furthermore, if there is a "lot of misinformation in here" on Islam, I challenge you to point it out ... please cite Sura and Verse.



The difference is, I can prove within the context of Christian teaching that Fred Phelps is wrong. Likewise I can prove that within the context of Islamic teaching that Anjem Choudary's position is both correct and mainstream.


I think the overall point I keep trying to get to is that one of the wonderful things about Western Civilization is pluralism ... religious freedom ... tolerance. Islam is incompatible with these things and thus is incompatible with Western Civilization. One or the other will have to yield.

Thank you, again you are spot on Zundfolge and bptactical as well. Couldn't have said it any better.

[jake]

The difference is, I can prove within the context of Christian teaching that Fred Phelps is wrong. Likewise I can prove that within the context of Islamic teaching that Anjem Choudary's position is both correct and mainstream.
But can you prove that all Muslims adhere to the same position? If they do, even the ones who live in the West and have pretty much integrated into our way of life, we're talking about a conspiracy of silence without equal.

[jake]

I'm confuzzled.

I accept that gays can do whatever with whomever they want and I choose to believe they will burn for it


Look up Fred Phelps


The difference is, I can prove within the context of Christian teaching that Fred Phelps is wrong.



Thank you, again you are spot on Zundfolge and bptactical as well. Couldn't have said it any better.

[Zundfolge]

But can you prove that all Muslims adhere to the same position? If they do, even the ones who live in the West and have pretty much integrated into our way of life, we're talking about a conspiracy of silence without equal.
A Muslim that does not adhere to the Koran's position on infidels, jihad and the call for a global caliphate may call themselves a Muslim but they are as much of a Muslim (that being one who submits to Allah) as someone that claims to be a Christian but believes that there was no Jesus.

I guess one could hold out hope for some sort of "Islamic Reformation" but it would probably require a new prophet. Maybe someone could appear on the scene that most Muslims accept as the Mahdi ... but instead of ushering in Armageddon they instead turn Islam back toward a path of peaceful coexistance with non Muslims. Of course this would make about as much sense as Christ returning and telling all Christians to become Buddhists.

[jerrymrc]

I do not normally weigh in on topics of religion since I am somewhat of a weird mixed bag. (think the christian and buddist have a kid)

I do invite everyone to spend a year or more in the sandbox and then form your opinion. I will leave it at that. [Flower]

[BPTactical]

Personally I am glad to see some hackles get raised.
The American Dream and lifestyle incrementally destroyed because we have become a country of pussies.
We are being forced to accept everybody else's way of life while ours is lost.
We are watching America slowly turn into a third world shithole.
We secure other countries borders and not our own.
We have an administration that is trying their dammed best to "Fundamentally Change America".
We have become a country of compromise instead of strength.
We were the strongest manufacturing base and now we can't even seem to make a lightbulb.

Its about time somebody got some balls and said something.


This is America and we are Americans.
If you don't like it you have two choices.
Both involve leaving America.
One by your own power.
One by six.

You decide

[sneakerd]

I say that a locality should be able to say no to a mosque. I sure as hell don't want one anywhere near me.

[Zundfolge]

a whole bunch of good stuff that I'm using as a jumping of point but not leaving quoted for the sake of space

As I've said in the past, Political Correctness = Cultural Suicide.

Because of PC we've forgot that the word "discriminate" has multiple meanings.


dis·crim·i·nate
verb \dis-ˈkri-mə-ˌnāt\

1 a : to make a distinction <discriminate among historical sources>
b : to use good judgment
2 : to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit <discriminate in favor of your friends> <discriminate against a certain nationality>

The politically correct have spent so much energy trying so hard not to do definition 2 that they become incapable of definition 1 (especially 1b).

[BPTactical]

I sure as hell don't want one anywhere near me.


Too late here, my old dentist office 4 blocks away from me is now a Mosque.
Since 9/11 there have been in excess of 3000 building permits issued for Mosque's in the US.
In contrast there have been about 400 for traditional churches/chapels/synagogues.

Do the math.

[UberTong]

Personally I am glad to see some hackles get raised.
The American Dream and lifestyle incrementally destroyed because we have become a country of pussies.
We are being forced to accept everybody else's way of life while ours is lost.
We are watching America slowly turn into a third world shithole.
We secure other countries borders and not our own.
We have an administration that is trying their dammed best to "Fundamentally Change America".
We have become a country of compromise instead of strength.
We were the strongest manufacturing base and now we can't even seem to make a lightbulb.

Its about time somebody got some balls and said something.


This is America and we are Americans.
If you don't like it you have two choices.
Both involve leaving America.
One by your own power.
One by six.

You decide

BP, You could not be more spot on...you just vocalized my feelings and said it better than I could have, thank you.


I'm confuzzled.

Jake, you are probably confused because I didn't say what you quoted me for:
Originally Posted by ubertong
I accept that gays can do whatever with whomever they want and I choose to believe they will burn for it

Before you quote me, make sure its me. I believe Zundfolge made the above comment.

[Zundfolge]

Originally Posted by ubertong
I accept that gays can do whatever with whomever they want and I choose to believe they will burn for it

Before you quote me, make sure its me. I believe Zundfolge made the above comment.

Twas not I (I don't believe that Gays will automatically burn ... we're all sinners, none of us is perfect. Rejection of Christ is the ONLY reason people "burn", so yes I'm saying that Gays can also be Christians ... just like Adulterers, Liars, Thieves, Murderers or any other sinners ... even people like me)

[jake]

Haha, you're right. I apologize. I would say I was drunk but I don't drink because of my reli... well, anyway.

[UberTong]

Twas not I (I don't believe that Gays will automatically burn ... we're all sinners, none of us is perfect. Rejection of Christ is the ONLY reason people "burn", so yes I'm saying that Gays can also be Christians ... just like Adulterers, Liars, Thieves, Murderers or any other sinners ... even people like me)

Hey sorry Z, wasn't trying to bus roll ya buddy. I thought you said it, I know it wasn't me.

[jake]

Twas not I (I don't believe that Gays will automatically burn ... we're all sinners, none of us is perfect. Rejection of Christ is the ONLY reason people "burn", so yes I'm saying that Gays can also be Christians ... just like Adulterers, Liars, Thieves, Murderers or any other sinners ... even people like me)
Nah, ranger made the original comment, for some reason I thought it was ubertong and so I found his agreement with your comments about the WBC strange. But I'm a liberal so reading comprehension is just one of my many deficiencies ;)

[UberTong]

Haha, you're right. I apologize. I would say I was drunk but I don't drink because of my reli... well, anyway.

No problem Jake, it was Ranger that said it.

[Zundfolge]

Nah, ranger made the original comment, for some reason I thought it was ubertong and so I found his agreement with your comments about the WBC strange. But I'm a liberal so reading comprehension is just one of my many deficiencies ;)
Ah, yes it was Ranger.

And as for his comment, it was pretty clear to me he was saying that we are all free to choose how to live, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with your choices (nor you mine), just that I can't stop you from making them.


Political Correctness tends to claim that not only do I have to respect your right to decide how to live, once you've picked something (especially something I find detestable) I have to endorse, encourage, support and ultimately agree with your life choices.

[Ranger]

Ah, yes it was Ranger.

And as for his comment, it was pretty clear to me he was saying that we are all free to choose how to live, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with your choices (nor you mine), just that I can't stop you from making them.

Exactly. I have my beliefs and everyone else has theirs and everyone is correct in their own beliefs. I really have nothing against gays - like I said I have many friends who are - I just think it's clearly laid out in the book that I, personally, believe in. This doesn't mean I'm going to go and slaughter them all for it.

As for the 3000 mosques that are being built and the assumption that Islam will rise in the US and strive to destroy the infidels - well, this may be true and I'll deal with that when it's time to deal with that. This is not a pacifist position but a position in which I believe in the ideals of America even if they don't suit me or cave on themselves and create a threat for the country I love. I can't sacrifice one right without being willing to sacrifice them all - so if I were to go on a killing spree and tell myself that I'm protecting America by doing so then how do I legitimately object when the government decides that Christians are a threat and does the same thing? It's a dangerous precedent that we set when we start to wiggle around the framework and laws and start doing our own thing because we feel something is out of control and it's up to us to fix it.

I'm no lover of Islam or their practices, but good or bad this is a free country and they have the freedom to rise to power and try to destroy us (isn't our "muslim or not" president doing that already?). This may mean that I have to fight to survive when our own freedoms may become our very downfall, but that is the price I pay to be an American.

[Ronin13]

Too late here, my old dentist office 4 blocks away from me is now a Mosque.
Since 9/11 there have been in excess of 3000 building permits issued for Mosque's in the US.
In contrast there have been about 400 for traditional churches/chapels/synagogues.

Do the math.

This can be viewed as attack then invade. It's a classic military tactic that we ourselves have used in the past- (Recent example: Shock and Awe preceding the invasion of Iraq.)
A healthy distrust of Muslims is fully warranted, considering (forgive me for not remembering who said it) because their way of life (not religion) is contrary to our society we enjoy as Americans. Furthermore, not sure if people know this, but their depravity goes on here as well... a man was nearly evicted from his community for claiming that his neighbor's ex-wife be stoned to death for cheating on her "lawful husband" and there are countless tales of Muslim families without permission removing certain "lady parts" from their daughters because it removes "temptation" right here in the USA! Why there is not a bigger outcry over this is beyond my comprehension.
And to retort to jerrymrc, I have spent a year in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, and have formed my opinion not just from living among it, but also dealing with them -and the moral issues that come with being an American in a country that has different customs than we do- case in point: the moral dilemma of dealing with a mob of angry villagers who are out for blood after a boy from another village "disgraced" one of the elders' granddaughters... what exactly happened is wishy washy, but we surmised that he saw her without much clothing on and smiled at her. It's a violent society that uses extreme punishment for things that over here are usually dealt with outside the court- such as unfaithfulness, blasphemy, etc.
Also- side note: I did read an intelligence report that some German soldiers wanted to detain a village elder for cutting out one of his fellow villagers tongues because he spoke out against Allah and desperately wanted to become a Christian.

[BPTactical]

One thing many don't realize and it really comes to light over the proposed Mosque a couple of blocks away from ground zero: it is Islamic tradition to build a Mosque at a site of Islamic victory in battle.
Slap in the face.

[UberTong]

One thing many don't realize and it really comes to light over the proposed Mosque a couple of blocks away from ground zero: it is Islamic tradition to build a Mosque at a site of Islamic victory in battle.
Slap in the face.

+1

[Ranger]

One thing many don't realize and it really comes to light over the proposed Mosque a couple of blocks away from ground zero: it is Islamic tradition to build a Mosque at a site of Islamic victory in battle.
Slap in the face.

That's interesting, I didn't know that until you brought it up and I did some research on it.

[Ronin13]

One thing many don't realize and it really comes to light over the proposed Mosque a couple of blocks away from ground zero: it is Islamic tradition to build a Mosque at a site of Islamic victory in battle.
Slap in the face.

Almost a s*** all over you move by them... I remember that was my sole argument against it. Victory huh? I still don't see any Islamic republics that possess thermo-nuclear weapons... Maybe we should give them some- fastest delivery method is the Minuteman II... it could be there in about the same time it takes Dominos to deliver a hot pizza.
(No I'm not advocating actually using nuclear weapons against Muslim countries... or am I?)

[Zundfolge]

I still don't see any Islamic republics that possess thermo-nuclear weapons

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/nuke/ (http://www.pakistan.gov.pk/)

[hatidua]

Eventually even the "nice" ones WILL try to kill you.

As someone who has lived in three Islamic countries, and was a fairly easy (blond American) target, that wasn't even remotely my experience.

[Ronin13]

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/nuke/ (http://www.pakistan.gov.pk/)

Totally forgot about those cheesedi*ks! Ok, so now we tread softly and carry a big stick. Worst part about that is, Pakistan is about one revolution away from becoming a hardline anti-western republic and that could spell doom for us if some Taliban Supporting, Al Qaeda loving Jihadi gets into power (I'm talking openly supporting, not this playing both sides crap that goes on now).

[Zundfolge]

Now you see why we bend over backward (and sometimes forward) to work with the Pakis.

Thing is their neighbors (India) have Nukes too and they don't much like the muzzies so if Pakistan gets too far out of whack its gonna get messy out there.

[BPTactical]

As someone who has lived in three Islamic countries, and was a fairly easy (blond American) target, that wasn't even remotely my experience.

You just weren't there long enough to get to the "Eventually" part.[Muaha]

Be it a radical cleric or a US "soccer mom" Muslim you are an Infidel and you are less in their eyes.
I firmly believe that the influx of Islam into the US post 9/11 is by design. We have been quietly invaded and our dumbass Government has allowed if not encouraged it.
You hear about clowns like the guy from Aurora that got popped planning to blow up the subway in NY.
You don't hear about how many "sleeper" cells are in this country. They are here no doubt, awaiting the time to go live.
Every major city in the US has a substantial Islamic community. And I can guarantee that not all are of the "Can't we just get along" mentality.

And the media and Gooberment will act surprised when it happens.

I won't.
There is a reason I won't go to a major sporting event, a mall or travel abroad.

[hatidua]

You just weren't there long enough to get to the "Eventually" part.[Muaha]

18 years provided ample opportunity.

I spoke with my wife by phone yesterday as she is on a research project in Indonesia, which has more muslims than any country on earth. She said that three years ago when she was there, people had a definite opinion of Americans, be it positive or negative - some of each, but everyone had a viewpoint. She said there's been a palpable change in the past few years. The economy is absolutely thriving over there, trade with other neighbor nations is booming, and as far as viewpoints on America - completely nonexistent, as if the U.S. doesn't exist, -like asking your average person in Denver what they thought of the game in Latvia last week.

While there are definitely terrorists in the world that want nothing more than to do the U.S. harm, there are a great many muslims who are busy running their tech firms, their pharmaceutical companies, Etc. rather than concerning themselves with the U.S.

Suggesting that every single muslim wants to kill the infidel is quaint in that it assumes the average muslim cares that we exist. Many are busy on the trading floor in Dubai or on the golf course in Brunei, they don't give a rats ass about some American, or if that American converts to Islam or not.

Instead of squabbling over the street address of a mosque, maybe we as a nation should put a tad more concern toward getting our economy straightened out, keeping our noses out of other countries business, and maybe trying to resolve our debt issues by spending a whole lot less money 'building nations' around the world that likely don't want us there in the first place.

No, that's not nearly as popular on an internet forum as fuming about the latest enemy du jour, but it might get us back to being a successful country instead of sucking on the Chinese teet waiting for them to buy more treasuries to keep us afloat.

[cofi]

18 years provided ample opportunity.

I spoke with my wife by phone yesterday as she is on a research project in Indonesia, which has more muslims than any country on earth. She said that three years ago when she was there, people had a definite opinion of Americans, be it positive or negative - some of each, but everyone had a viewpoint. She said there's been a palpable change in the past few years. The economy is absolutely thriving over there, trade with other neighbor nations is booming, and as far as viewpoints on America - completely nonexistent, as if the U.S. doesn't exist, -like asking your average person in Denver what they thought of the game in Latvia last week.

While there are definitely terrorists in the world that want nothing more than to do the U.S. harm, there are a great many muslims who are busy running their tech firms, their pharmaceutical companies, Etc. rather than concerning themselves with the U.S.

Suggesting that every single muslim wants to kill the infidel is quaint in that it assumes the average muslim cares that we exist. Many are busy on the trading floor in Dubai or on the golf course in Brunei, they don't give a rats ass about some American, or if that American converts to Islam or not.

Instead of squabbling over the street address of a mosque, maybe we as a nation should put a tad more concern toward getting our economy straightened out, keeping our noses out of other countries business, and maybe trying to resolve our debt issues by spending a whole lot less money 'building nations' around the world that likely don't want us there in the first place.

No, that's not nearly as popular on an internet forum as fuming about the latest enemy du jour, but it might get us back to being a successful country instead of sucking on the Chinese teet waiting for them to buy more treasuries to keep us afloat.


this

[Ronin13]

18 years provided ample opportunity.

I spoke with my wife by phone yesterday as she is on a research project in Indonesia, which has more muslims than any country on earth. She said that three years ago when she was there, people had a definite opinion of Americans, be it positive or negative - some of each, but everyone had a viewpoint. She said there's been a palpable change in the past few years. The economy is absolutely thriving over there, trade with other neighbor nations is booming, and as far as viewpoints on America - completely nonexistent, as if the U.S. doesn't exist, -like asking your average person in Denver what they thought of the game in Latvia last week.

While there are definitely terrorists in the world that want nothing more than to do the U.S. harm, there are a great many muslims who are busy running their tech firms, their pharmaceutical companies, Etc. rather than concerning themselves with the U.S.

Suggesting that every single muslim wants to kill the infidel is quaint in that it assumes the average muslim cares that we exist. Many are busy on the trading floor in Dubai or on the golf course in Brunei, they don't give a rats ass about some American, or if that American converts to Islam or not.

Instead of squabbling over the street address of a mosque, maybe we as a nation should put a tad more concern toward getting our economy straightened out, keeping our noses out of other countries business, and maybe trying to resolve our debt issues by spending a whole lot less money 'building nations' around the world that likely don't want us there in the first place.

No, that's not nearly as popular on an internet forum as fuming about the latest enemy du jour, but it might get us back to being a successful country instead of sucking on the Chinese teet waiting for them to buy more treasuries to keep us afloat.

So I was just imagining things when I saw on the news all day long on 9/11/01 massive crowds people in Cairo, Islamabad, and Syria burning American flags and chanting things to the effect of "Down with America"? Ya know, since they couldn't care less about us and don't concern their daily lives with what goes on in the US.

[Jumpstart]

So I was just imagining things when I saw on the news all day long on 9/11/01 massive crowds people in Cairo, Islamabad, and Syria burning American flags and chanting things to the effect of "Down with America"? Ya know, since they couldn't care less about us and don't concern their daily lives with what goes on in the US.

this

[Mr. Burns]

retarded, a mousque is not full of mujahadeem fighters.
live and let live man, its not like ppl who go there for worship
are strapped up with heavy ordnance.

some people are just scared of what they do not understand,
or just simply know nothing about islam, or other religions

[UberTong]

retarded, a mousque is not full of mujahadeem fighters.
live and let live man, its not like ppl who go there for worship
are strapped up with heavy ordnance.

some people are just scared of what they do not understand,
or just simply know nothing about islam, or other religions
[NoClue]

Agree to disagree.

[Ronin13]

retarded, a mousque is not full of mujahadeem fighters.
live and let live man, its not like ppl who go there for worship
are strapped up with heavy ordnance.

some people are just scared of what they do not understand,
or just simply know nothing about islam, or other religions

Okay, welcome to the convo, but I established a few pages ago my intricate and extensive knowledge of Islam and ME culture (having not only studied with the US Army Intelligence School at Ft. Huachuca, AZ but also lived in an Islamic Republic for a year)... I am not in misunderstanding, I would like to think I know quite a bit, and no, I do not fear them, I just simply do not agree with their social standard (as stated before, Islam is not a religion it's a structure of life, family, politics, etc.) I would LOVE to live and let live, but they have a little clause in their holy book (Qua'ran) that instructs them to find and kill the infidel who refuses to subscribe to their little system. Guess what infidel means... Anyone who doesn't believe that "There is no God but God and Mohammad is his prophet." Oops! I don't believe that, so therefore I'm an infidel, or kafir (aka Non-Believer). And while not every Muslim is a suicide bomber, in recent history EVERY suicide bomber has been a Muslim. I'm not the best a kindergarten games any more, but this game of connect the dots is pretty simple.
I have sat in on a few Mosques before (some under extensive subterfuge so they can be more candid) and a lot of them spout intolerance and hatred for the west and it's "Decadence." So tell me, please, why is it that not every Mosque is not full of Muj fighters, but EVERY Muj fighter attends a Mosque and not say, a Synagogue or Mass? Oh yeah, because Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Taoism, Paganism, and especially Buddhism do not condone the murder of innocent civilians. Last time I checked it was Muslims that brought down the WTC. It was Muslims that issued a Fatwa against the West. And it was Muslims who regularly burn the American flag and "praise Allah" every time an American soldier, sailor, airmen, or marine is killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else.

[Zundfolge]

some people are just scared of what they do not understand
I wasn't afraid of Islam until I actually read their Koran.


Anyway, I point back to the posts I made on Political Correctness a couple pages back (this one's starting to go in circles).

[jake]

And while not every Muslim is a suicide bomber, in recent history EVERY suicide bomber has been a Muslim. I'm not the best a kindergarten games any more, but this game of connect the dots is pretty simple.
The suicide bombers of the Tamil Tigers might disagree with you there, but I get your point... however, just because all suicide bombers are Muslims, doesn't mean all Muslims are suicide bombers. Like Zundfolge, the idea of compromising my principles for safety doesn't sit well with me. I already do it every time I go to the airport. When we start ignoring one part of the Bill of Rights because we fear one particular group of people, which part is next on the chopping block?

[CMP_5.56]

The suicide bombers of the Tamil Tigers might disagree with you there, but I get your point... however, just because all suicide bombers are Muslims, doesn't mean all Muslims are suicide bombers. Like Zundfolge, the idea of compromising my principles for safety doesn't sit well with me. I already do it every time I go to the airport. When we start ignoring one part of the Bill of Rights because we fear one particular group of people, which part is next on the chopping block?

Yet again you fail to understand, the bill of rights is only good for those who chose to live by our laws. If you want your own set of laws, like Sharia, then you are choosing to live outside our nations laws. Therefore you are choosing not to be under the protection of those laws as well. Islam is a societal belief system, that happens to revolve around a religuon. Therefore living by Sharia in the United States is a forfeit of the rights given by our constitution and bill of rights.

I live in fear of nothing or no person. I do not fear Muslims or Islam. But i do not trust them either. Goes back to what has been said by myself and others, it is the only religion that outwardly states that all non believers must be converted or killed. Plain and simple, anyone who truly believes themselves a Muslim is willing to abide by its rules. That is why I choose to not trust them, and that is what I will continue to do.

[jake]

Yet again you fail to understand, the bill of rights is only good for those who chose to live by our laws. If you want your own set of laws, like Sharia, then you are choosing to live outside our nations laws. Therefore you are choosing not to be under the protection of those laws as well. Islam is a societal belief system, that happens to revolve around a religuon. Therefore living by Sharia in the United States is a forfeit of the rights given by our constitution and bill of rights.
It seems like the failure to understand here is on you. I didn't say anything about Sharia Law. I don't have any problem with the idea that Sharia Law is not welcome in this country. I'm talking about taking away the right to practice any religion, or none at all, from one particular group Americans. After them, who is next in the firing line? We've pretty much abrogated our Fourth Amendment rights in airports and there are rumors that train and bus stations are next so it's not like there's not a precedent.

[CMP_5.56]

It seems like the failure to understand here is on you. I didn't say anything about Sharia Law. I don't have any problem with the idea that Sharia Law is not welcome in this country. I'm talking about taking away the right to practice any religion, or none at all, from one particular group Americans. After them, who is next in the firing line? We've pretty much abrogated our Fourth Amendment rights in airports and there are rumors that train and bus stations are next so it's not like there's not a precedent.

Yet again, you fail to see the entire picture. Islam is not a religion. It is an all encompassing way of life that includes laws and social structure as well as political control. To say someone has the right to practice Islam is also saying they have the right to practice sharia. Because you cant have the religion without the laws. Our constitution calls for the separation of church and state. According to Islam, the church and the state are one in the same. Therefore the practice of Islam goes against the constitution, which means you are living outside our laws, and you forfeit your rights.

[Byte Stryke]

We've pretty much abrogated our Fourth Amendment rights in airports and there are rumors that train and bus stations are next so it's not like there's not a precedent.


those aren't rumors


gOv8Zh3OvSg

[sneakerd]

I don't think of Muslims as Americans. I also damn well don't think very many of them consider themselves Americans. I consider them invaders and infiltrators. I think they're testing us, finding our vulnerabilities, the weaknesses within our own system of justice. They're pushing all of the buttons trying to find which one turns on the light, then they won't push that one again, they'll change direction. I'm sure there are a few who could be found to be otherwise, but that would be a small minority of a minority. [AR15]

[hatidua]

Our constitution calls for the separation of church and state.

I'd certainly like to get back to that but at the moment it doesn't seem eminent. I'd like people to leave their deity in their house of worship rather than bringing him/her into politics but thats not what we currently experience.

[Ronin13]

Islam is not a religion. It is an all encompassing way of life that includes laws and social structure as well as political control. To say someone has the right to practice Islam is also saying they have the right to practice sharia. Because you cant have the religion without the laws. Our constitution calls for the separation of church and state. According to Islam, the church and the state are one in the same. Therefore the practice of Islam goes against the constitution, which means you are living outside our laws, and you forfeit your rights.

I really couldn't have said it better myself. It may come to the point (and I really hope it's not in our or our children's lives) that we may need to leave this land and settle somewhere new to escape religious persecution (kinda like how America was founded). But that may not work considering that I doubt the Muslims will rest until the whole world is converted or dead... just seems to me like they can't allow bygones to be bygones and they do their thing over in the sandbox and we do ours here in the land of Washington and Jefferson...
Funny observation about ME peoples- in Iraq and Afghanistan those who are not as civilized as the rest of us wipe their behinds with their bare left hands, but they call the pig a "filthy creature" and refuse to eat or touch it... [ROFL1]