Loading 38 Special

[michael_aos]

I think I'd like a load for my 1866 that will send a 158gr @ ~1000fps.

Qiuckload shows me some slow powders that will get me to ~1400fps at <17,000 psi (SAAMI).

Is there any way to tell if 4.5gr of TiteGroup behind a 158gr and COAL of 1.55" is "safe" (38 special pressure)?

I'd hate to put undue stress on the rifle, but I've also got a LOT of TiteGroup and I'd like to use it if I could.

Mike

[car-15]

I'm no expert by far, with that said the below is taken from the hodgdon 2006 annual manual shows the max safe load as 4.3 grn's titegroup with a 158 grn bullet. that will put you at 905 fps with 19,300 cup,and that is with a 7" barrel so a rifle should net you a few more fps. they reccomend a oal of 1.455 but my lyman manual shows 1.550 as the max safe oal. I dont know if I helped you, but if you need any more specs out of the annual let me know. :cool:

[Hoser]

Keep your eye on how hard they extract. If the initial pull on the lever is hard and you get any primer cratering, back off. What does Hodgon say for a max load?

Whats the main reason for a goal of 1,000 fps? I would just pick a load that is accurate, minimal recoil and is clean. If thats 800 fps or 1200 fps, no matter.

If you want to drive 158s faster, get a slower powder. Keep in mind, the faster you push lead, the more likely you are to get lead buildup.

[michael_aos]

I'm using the Rainier copper-plated lead right now. Also ordered some FMJ.

Nothing "special" exactly about 1000fps. Just a nice round number.

Hodgdon lists 3.9gr with a 158gr HDY XTP, but they don't mention OAL.

It seems to cycle more smoothly w/1.55" OAL, and I was sort of hoping I could reduce the pressure a little by running them longer.

38 Special (http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/38spec.php)
38 Special +P (http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/38specp.php)

Mike

[michael_aos]

Quickload estimates only 10405psi @1001 fps w/4.1gr of N340.

11174psi @ 1006fps w/3.9gr N330
13304psi @ 1009fps w/3.7gr N320

Even lower pressures w/3N37 / N350 / N105, but the don't achieve 100% propellant burn.

Quickload doesn't list TiteGroup.

Honestly, I'd thought I'd be there w/4.0gr of TiteGroup. I wonder if maybe I need more crimp?

Mike

[michael_aos]

I've been shooting this 1866 sort of like a "big .22", if that makes any sense.

I figured getting the velocity up near a normal .22LR would be a "good thing", but yeah I don't have my heart set on 1000fps.

It's amazingly accurate with anything and everything I've fed it so far.

Mike

[Colorado Osprey]

Here is a link to Hodgdon's website and the loadings for 38 Special in Cowboy loadings for a carbine:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/cowboy/spc38spe.php

They list 158 grain with 3.2 grains of Titegroup at 815 ft/sec up to 3.8 grains at 920 ft/sec

They also list the XTP 158 grain at 4.3 grains for 905 ft/sec

Titegroup burns so fast that getting 1000 ft/sec and keeping pressure down will be tough with a 158 grain bullet.

To get over that 1000ft/sec threshold the pressure almost doubles in the .357 mag from 17,000 CUP to 40,000 CUP as well as the powder charge almost doubles.

[michael_aos]

Any suggestions on different powders then?

I'm loading with a Dillon RL550B.

Mike

[michael_aos]

I saw the 4.3gr listing @ 19,300 CUP.

That's 905fps in a 7.7" bbl. Any way to extrapolate that into a 19" barrel?

These Ultramax 158gr SWC commercial reloads are 785fps in my 4" revolver and 1030fps in the 19" carbine.

Mike

[michael_aos]

Anybody played with the Alliant powders?

American Select
Red Dot
Green Dot

Some others that caught my eye were Bullseye and Unique. Nice low pressures, but they don't burn completely in a 4" revolver. I figured it would be nice to have a single load for both.

Mike

[KarlPMann]

Bullseye should burn in any barrel, it's VERY fast burning. If it wont, then few others would. I use Bullseye for ALL of my reloading, but I'd have to hunt for the data for 38's. Karl.

[michael_aos]

Quickload shows 100% burn with a 19" barrel for 3.5gr of Bullseye and only 10141psi.

But only 91.41% burned from a 4" barrel.

Not bad, but it estimates 100% burn for both 4" and 19" w/3.7gr of Green Dot @ 13115 psi.

Hodgdon HP38 is another one that looks promising. 12104psi and 99.65% burned from a 4" barrel.

I figure I have some "wiggle room" as far as pressure in this S&W Model 67-6 (4"). It's stamped ".38 S&W SPL. +P", but since it's a stainless-steel K-frame I wouldn't be surprised to find it can handle .357 Mag pressures.

I just don't want to "hot rod" this 1866.

Mike

[KarlPMann]

Hmmmm, 10,141psi is real low too. Maybe try a different OAL to get less powder and more burn as well as maybe a little more pressure. I know you want light, but that's REAL light. Karl.

[michael_aos]

Good catch.

I've mostly just followed recipes for other loads, but nothing is jumping out at me here.

The loads I'm finding are either really low "cowboy" or more high-end (relatively speaking). Not a lot in the middle.

I do want enough pressure to seal the cartridge up against the chamber walls.

Maybe Red Dot (14,096 psi) is the way to go...

Quickload lists 17000psi as Pmax.

What's funny is that Red Dot and VV N320 both seem like pretty good choices. TiteGroup is right between them on the burn-rate chart, so you'd think it would be fine.

:?:

Mike

[michael_aos]

The more I think about it, the more I think I need more crimp.

I've noticed some "soot" on the brass, like you'd see on the wimpy low-pressure cowboy loads. It seems to me if I was pushing the limits of pressure, I wouldn't be seeing that.

Probably explains why the velocities are less than predicted and the occasional high-SD on on the chronograph.

Mike

[michael_aos]

Ultimately I'd like to wind up with a single 158gr load that shoots ~750fps from the revolver and ~1000fps in the carbine.

From the numbers I've seen so far, I think that's doable.

Mike

[HunterCO]

I load a ton of .38 special 158 grn. SWC's. I use 3.5 grns of red dot out of my Ruger GP100 4" barrel they chrony at 680 fps. I am sure that 4.0 grns which is still under max load would push them to 750 fps.

I recently have went to the copper plated bullets with the same load but I have not chronyed them yet.