View Full Version : Islam on capital Hill
I don't think the Mayflower had any muslims on board.
Saw a bumper sticker the other day that said :
This Country was Founded by White Men with Guns.
Of course the PC group can now comment.
Islamic Prayer at the Whitehouse
Article here.
http://islamoncapitolhill.com/
Jumpstart
07-24-2011, 11:08
I like it, and it's so true. !Viva la Raza!
colocowboy01
07-24-2011, 11:16
I don't think the Mayflower had any muslims on board.
Saw a bumper sticker the other day that said :
This Country was Founded by White Men with Guns.
Of course the PC group can now comment.
Islamic Prayer at the Whitehouse
Article here.
http://islamoncapitolhill.com/
That is an awesome bumper sticker.
You do know that many Europeans, Africans, and Chinese came to America before Columbus right? Heck if you throw a log off the coast of Africa it will float to South America on the currents.
If you want to read a good book about some of that read 1421. Great book written by a former British Submarine captain turned archaeologist.
Capitol Hill is public property, if a group wants to hold a prayer there, so what? It's their First Amendment right to do so.
You do know that many Europeans, Africans, and Chinese came to America before Columbus right? Heck if you throw a log off the coast of Africa it will float to South America on the currents.
If you want to read a good book about some of that read 1421. Great book written by a former British Submarine captain turned archaeologist.
Did they settle the country?
Did they write the Declaration, Constitution?
Did they settle the country?
Did they write the Declaration, Constitution?
Did the Irish? The French? The German? Did you?
Not being part of the founding doesn't make someone any less entitled to the effects of what was written.
mevshooter
07-24-2011, 12:25
Did the Irish? The French? The German? Did you?
Not being part of the founding doesn't make someone any less entitled to the effects of what was written.
BAM.
I cannot argue with that logic.
I don't have to like it. Lets luv our enemies and give them what they want, then when they blow us up we can all pray together.
Or at least teach them how to make them suicide bombs work 100% of the time.
I don't have to like it. Lets luv our enemies and give them what they want, then when they blow us up we can all pray together.
Or at least teach them how to make them suicide bombs work 100% of the time.
So, in order to overcome our enemies, we should give up what makes us better than them?
"Those who would give up freedoms for temporary safety deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin
I don't have to like it. Lets luv our enemies and give them what they want, then when they blow us up we can all pray together.
Or at least teach them how to make them suicide bombs work 100% of the time.
So what you are saying is all Muslims and Arabs are our enemies. If that is the case, why are we in Iraq "liberating" them? While I don't like extremist Muslims one bit, I have known many good Muslims. Are there problems with Islam, sure... but in my opinion their society is in what will be termed their form of the dark ages. Just like Christianity was a pile garbage in the middle ages. If you want to fix the problem, you have to help people do the right thing.
Love your neighbor right.... meh what ever
Byte Stryke
07-24-2011, 16:03
actually I believe the point is, that in accordance with the laws of Islam we are their enemies, regardless of our feelings about them.
for further explanation see signature:
actually I believe the point is, that in accordance with the laws of Islam we are their enemies, regardless of our feelings about them.
for further explanation see signature:
Christianity was once interpreted that way too. The dark ages were the same for us as today is for many of them.
As an example at one point in time the opening words of the Koran were interpreted in a much different way. I can't remember the specifics of it. Came from a book I read a long time ago on the history and changes.
But at one point the opening words of the Quran were interpreted as God (Allah) created the world for you to learn in. But today it is interpreted as the only thing you need to learn is within the Quran.
Hey kiss their asses if you want I don't have too. Be PC because that is the way you have been indoctorinated. Believe me you are losing your rights that I had when I was young, But you don't really care.
This Country Was Founded By White Men With Guns.
Hey kiss their asses if you want I don't have too. Be PC because that is the way you have been indoctorinated. Believe me you are losing your rights that I had when I was young, But you don't really care.
This Country Was Founded By White Men With Guns.
So how am I losing my rights by letting all Americans have the same rights as I to practice their chosen religion?
So far all you got is you hate muzzies. Not much other than that. Which tells me you don't understand the US Constitution at all on this issue. The Constitution protects freedom of religion, there is no rider in there to say except Muslims.
As to white guys with guns....... so what.
islandermyk
07-24-2011, 18:23
In a few words I can only say that both a handful of Muslim and Christian faiths/bible thumpers in this world are hypocrites.
Sorry to offend anyone...
The other thing I look at is the different mentalities of our world.
In this beautiful country of the U.S.A. it's more than likely that a person is in their religion due to family, friends, mainstream ideas, etc.. we are allowed options with no fear of persecution.
Now think of the Middle East... you almost think that the people there really don't have an option.
Now putting that all aside... I've always thought that mixing politics and religion or using religion in politics is a bad thing for many reasons... but who am I to say...
Drilldov2.0
07-24-2011, 18:28
BAM.
I cannot argue with that logic.
I can. The problem with that post is that is a list Nationalities, not religion. Islam is a religion. I have no problem with them praying wherever they wish. The problem with Islam I have is that there is also a troublesome part of governing of the people written into their beliefs. Sharia law. That makes it unacceptable to allow them to "pray" wherever they wish and eliminates their constitutional right to freedom of religion, since it is not actually a religion, but a form of government antithetical to the very core of which this country was founded upon.
\
Now think of the Middle East... you almost think that the people there really don't have an option.
Now putting that all aside... I've always thought that mixing politics and religion or using religion in politics is a bad thing for many reasons... but who am I to say...
Well said on the first. As to the last part. The middle east is a mess partly because religion and gov are nearly the same thing. The more the US lets religion into our gov the more messed up it becomes. There is no logic or reasoning with faith. And when faith goes wrong, what then?
I can. The problem with that post is that is a list Nationalities, not religion. Islam is a religion. I have no problem with them praying wherever they wish. The problem with Islam I have is there is also is a troublesome part of governing of the people written into their beliefs. Sharia law. That makes it unacceptable to allow them to "pray" wherever they wish and eliminates their constitutional right to freedom of religion, since it is not actually a religion, but a form of government antithetical to the very core of which this country was founded upon.
Christianity was once a form of gov too. All the way up until the founding of this nation. The founding fathers rightfully feared religion intertwined with gov in any form. Christians also argued that it was written in the bible that gov was to be the realm of the church at one time too. As to the Muslims and their problems. Well, its better to work with them to change and grow past the problems than start another crusade.
If you want to learn something about many of the founders of this nation look up what "Deists" are. It deals with how many of them viewed religion.
islandermyk
07-24-2011, 18:45
We the people of this Earth sure have a very long road ahead of us... we only stay comfortable where we are now... with our guns, tv's, refrigerator filled with food, computers, working toilets, running water, etc... a lot of these conveniences has made us blind to what is happening around us. It's easy to blame religion, politicians, Jerry Springer, Martha Stewart, Obama, Bush, etc.. but really... isn't it really our fault for allowing these sneaky phuckers to pass all these wild Bills, taxes, gas prices, etc...?
Guess everyone missed the original topic and we have wandered into the pasture.
We the people of this Earth sure have a very long road ahead of us... we only stay comfortable where we are now... with our guns, tv's, refrigerator filled with food, computers, working toilets, running water, etc... a lot of these conveniences has made us blind to what is happening around us. It's easy to blame religion, politicians, Jerry Springer, Martha Stewart, Obama, Bush, etc.. but really... isn't it really our fault for allowing these sneaky phuckers to pass all these wild Bills, taxes, gas prices, etc...?
I agree. The problem is not Muslims as a whole either.
One of the biggest problems I see with our current situation is our system has become dysfunctional. Gov is bought and paid for and not beholden to the majority of Americans but rather to money power alone.
How would I fix it? End the idea that corporations have the same rights as living citizens for one. I would also fix our broken election system by making instant run off voting be used in all elections at every level. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting We need to fix our country so we are not ruled by a two party duopoly. This would give other parties just as much power as the Demicraps and the Repugnacans. I want the Libertarians and the Greens to have just as much of a shot. Let people have the ability to vote their conscience and then as a secondary choice vote for either the "Giant Douche or the Turd Sandwich" (Dem/GOP).
Guess everyone missed the original topic and we have wandered into the pasture.
Whats your original topic mountainman? So far it was you hate muzzies and can't explain why they don't deserve the same constitution rights of freedom of religion as you.
Enlighten me why they don't deserve the same rights as you?
I have a right to hate em and I don't believe in Political Correctness. So Sue me.
I have a right to hate em and I don't believe in Political Correctness. So Sue me.
Well good, just because you hate someone does not mean they don't have the same constitutional rights as you. If the KKK wants to march in the streets I will fight for their rights to march in the streets. Does not mean I like them one bit though.
Drilldov2.0
07-24-2011, 19:10
Guess everyone missed the original topic and we have wandered into the pasture.
We certainly have wandered into the pasture. Seems like we are stepping in shit every step latley, eh?
And on another note You young Dumb people don't have any idea what this country was founded on. And you think that PC is the way to go don't offend those that are different. My dad fought in 2 wars and I listen to him all the time and we are Going down probably below a 3rd world nation and You are Proud. Get a fuk'n grip.
Grow up and get some balls and quit kiising up to our pres and our government. you pussies will surrender your guns as soon as they knock on the door.
That is why I say Ever day you lose something because you are too stupid to realize it is happening.
We had a Prayer Day (Christian) and now we need a Islamic Prayer day Fuk you.
islandermyk
07-24-2011, 19:19
I'm sorry for derailing this thread... I should become a Politician being capable of accomplishing such [ROFL1]
And on another note You young Dumb people don't have any idea what this country was founded on. And you think that PC is the way to go don't offend those that are different. My dad fought in 2 wars and I listen to him all the time and we are Going down probably below a 3rd world nation and You are Proud. Get a fuk'n grip.
Grow up and get some balls and quit kiising up to our pres and our government. you pussies will surrender your guns as soon as they knock on the door.
That is why I say Ever day you lose something because you are too stupid to realize it is happening.
We had a Prayer Day (Christian) and now we need a Islamic Prayer day Fuk you.
What was this country founded on Mtn.man? White power? I have not said anything about PC. Thats you projecting your own fears. I said its your right to hate who ever you want. It still gives you no right to take away another Americans Constitutional rights. The US has many problems allowing Americans their Constitutional rights is not one of them.
As to calling me a pussy and me not believing in gun rights. If I did not believe in the 2nd Amendment, I would not be on this board.
I'm sorry for derailing this thread... I should become a Politician being capable of accomplishing such [ROFL1]
Islandmike, its all related.
And on another note You young Dumb people don't have any idea what this country was founded on. And you think that PC is the way to go don't offend those that are different. My dad fought in 2 wars and I listen to him all the time and we are Going down probably below a 3rd world nation and You are Proud. Get a fuk'n grip.
Grow up and get some balls and quit kiising up to our pres and our government. you pussies will surrender your guns as soon as they knock on the door.
That is why I say Ever day you lose something because you are too stupid to realize it is happening.
We had a Prayer Day (Christian) and now we need a Islamic Prayer day Fuk you.
As to religion, I don't think there should be Christian Prayer or Islamic prayer in gov at all.
As to your parents fighting for this country, I thank them for their service. My family has fought in every war including the Revolutionary War. I did my 8 years in too. Its not a trump card. It was an honor to serve my country.
As to having no balls or kissing up to the president. Thats your opinion. I don't share it.
islandermyk
07-24-2011, 19:39
And on another note You young Dumb people don't have any idea what this country was founded on. And you think that PC is the way to go don't offend those that are different. My dad fought in 2 wars and I listen to him all the time and we are Going down probably below a 3rd world nation and You are Proud. Get a fuk'n grip.
Grow up and get some balls and quit kiising up to our pres and our government. you pussies will surrender your guns as soon as they knock on the door.
That is why I say Ever day you lose something because you are too stupid to realize it is happening.
We had a Prayer Day (Christian) and now we need a Islamic Prayer day Fuk you.
This is a beautiful country. It is sad that it is turning to shit. People have lost their freaken minds. I don't know... but I sure don't pray for the worst on anyone... and I hope that no one prays for the worst on anyone as well.... Christian Prayer Day... Islamic prayer day... It really doesn't bother me just as long as the prayers are for the best for everyone. Kissing ass and being a puss.... Hhhhmmm... only when I'm at work [ROFL1].... Look... we are all brothers here and in arms if you will. This country is armed to the teeth. If the government wants to take that away from us... I think it's a little to late for that... it's work for them and you know how the government is... they don't like work [ROFL1] Sorry... I'm getting a little carried away with this... [Coffee]
islandermyk
07-24-2011, 19:40
Islandmike, its all related.
dangit... [Coffee]
As long as you go along with what they say instead of what is right you have NO balls.
And yes Gov should stay out of pretty much everything except RUINING the country. Which they have done a great job.
But if you cannot see where we are headed and you like it then you have NO balls.
If you cannot understand that our government doesn't have your best interest in mind, you have NO balls.
If you think other countries and illegals have rights, you have NO balls. If you interpret the constituition to allow others from other countries to NOT follow our beliefs, you have NO balls.
If you cannnot see that your high school teachers fuked up your interpetation of the way America is supposed to be then I have no pitty on you. You have NO balls.
And for those that want/have political correctness and kiss the jobs ass or the bosses ass you have NO balls.
As long as you go along with what they say instead of what is right you have NO balls.
And yes Gov should stay out of pretty much everything except RUINING the country. Which they have done a great job.
But if you cannot see where we are headed and you like it then you have NO balls.
If you cannot understand that our government doesn't have your best interest in mind, you have NO balls.
If you think other countries and illegals have rights, you have NO balls. If you interpret the constituition to allow others from other countries to NOT follow our beliefs, you have NO balls.
If you cannnot see that your high school teachers fuked up your interpetation of the way America is supposed to be then I have no pitty on you. You have NO balls.
And for those that want/have political correctness and kiss the jobs ass or the bosses ass you have NO balls.
Mike you sound like an angry guy, its almost amusing if not so pathetic.
Illegals don't have all rights, they do however have the rights the Constitution affords them. If you don't like that then there is a path for changing the Constitution. As an example of where I get my interpretation.
Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)
In Yick Wo v. Hopkins, a case involving the rights of Chinese immigrants, the Court ruled that the 14th Amendment's statement, "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws," applied to all persons "without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality," and to "an alien, who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population, although alleged to be illegally here." (Kaoru Yamataya v. Fisher, 189 U.S. 86 (1903) )
There are many other times where this ruling was affirmed.
As to where we are headed, I don't live in fear. If it comes to the day when Muslims try to over through the US, then I will be there with you fighting. But till that day if it ever comes, they have just as much right to constitutional freedoms as you.
And just what are our beliefs..... are we a church run state now?
Hey Damn it I have a Blue Collar thing going and you guys wanna screw it up.
We don't need the gubment in our lives so why do we need an Islamic day. Screw em all let Godd sort em out.
Hey Damn it I have a Blue Collar thing going and you guys wanna screw it up.
We don't need the gubment in our lives so why do we need an Islamic day. Screw em all let Godd sort em out.
Mike I have thought this through some. I do agree the gov has no business in religion and there fore religion has no place in gov. I think that way of ALL religions. Same with Christianity. Now if it is private citizens, they have the right to their beliefs.
islandermyk
07-24-2011, 20:15
As long as you go along with what they say instead of what is right you have NO balls.
And yes Gov should stay out of pretty much everything except RUINING the country. Which they have done a great job.
But if you cannot see where we are headed and you like it then you have NO balls.
If you cannot understand that our government doesn't have your best interest in mind, you have NO balls.
If you think other countries and illegals have rights, you have NO balls. If you interpret the constituition to allow others from other countries to NOT follow our beliefs, you have NO balls.
If you cannnot see that your high school teachers fuked up your interpetation of the way America is supposed to be then I have no pitty on you. You have NO balls.
And for those that want/have political correctness and kiss the jobs ass or the bosses ass you have NO balls.
Enough with the BALLS...
It seems that the world is running short of some. Which is probably where this thread is going. Yes we are allowing a lot of bad things to happen here and everywhere in the world, but we are sitting comfortably in front of computers, tv's reading about it... etc.. when the guys with the balls are fighting wars for people without balls. The same people without balls are some how running this country to the ground. With that being said... How is one with balls to handle the fact that Islamic Prayer Day will probably happen sooner or later?
How is one with balls to handle the fact that Islamic Prayer Day will probably happen sooner or later?
Now this is what I am trying to understand. Because Mike did not add any details here as to why he has a problem with this event. Is this an event where Americans (Islamic Americans) are coming from all over the US to just pray together. Or are they trying to get the Gov to institute a day of gov sanctioned prayer. If they are trying to get Gov to take part in prayer I have an issue with that. Just like I do with the Christians do that crap too.
islandermyk
07-24-2011, 20:24
Hey Damn it I have a Blue Collar thing going and you guys wanna screw it up.
We don't need the gubment in our lives so why do we need an Islamic day. Screw em all let Godd sort em out.
[ROFL1][Beer] Tha's coo man... we gotta pay the bills and buy'em toys somehow!
Drilldov2.0
07-24-2011, 20:28
Mike you sound like an angry guy, its almost amusing if not so pathetic.
Illegals don't have all rights, they do however have the rights the Constitution affords them. If you don't like that then there is a path for changing the Constitution. As an example of where I get my interpretation.
Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)
In Yick Wo v. Hopkins, a case involving the rights of Chinese immigrants, the Court ruled that the 14th Amendment's statement, "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws," applied to all persons "without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality," and to "an alien, who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population, although alleged to be illegally here." (Kaoru Yamataya v. Fisher, 189 U.S. 86 (1903) )
There are many other times where this ruling was affirmed.
As to where we are headed, I don't live in fear. If it comes to the day when Muslims try to over through the US, then I will be there with you fighting. But till that day if it ever comes, they have just as much right to constitutional freedoms as you.
And just what are our beliefs..... are we a church run state now?
an alien, who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population, although alleged to be illegally here."
This is patently where I have a problem with the decision of the court in 1886. The troublesome part of your justification lies in your quoted, supposed precedent. "has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction"
To which in my interpretation means become a naturalized citizen, or here on a visa, etc. And paying taxes if they are earning a wage.
The case cited presents an excellent case for review and scrutiny due to the language. It's rather obtuse reference to "a part of its population" seems to circumvent the laws regarding legal immigration into this country .
It does not, however, override current immigration laws.
islandermyk
07-24-2011, 20:29
Now this is what I am trying to understand. Because Mike did not add any details here as to why he has a problem with this event. Is this an event where Americans (Islamic Americans) are coming from all over the US to just pray together. Or are they trying to get the Gov to institute a day of gov sanctioned prayer. If they are trying to get Gov to take part in prayer I have an issue with that. Just like I do with the Christians do that crap too.
You got me... [Coffee]
.. but in hopes that it doesn't go there as well... "If they are trying to get Gov to take part in prayer I have an issue with that"
an alien, who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population, although alleged to be illegally here."
This is patently where I have a problem with the decision of the court in 1886. The troublesome part of your justification lies in your quoted, supposed precedent. "has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction"
To which in my interpretation means become a naturalized citizen, or here on a visa, etc. And paying taxes if they are earning a wage.
The case cited presents an excellent case for review and scrutiny due to the language. It's rather obtuse reference to "a part of its population" seems to circumvent the laws regarding legal immigration into this country .
It does not, however, override current immigration laws.
The above case has to do with the right to constitutional protections and laws. It does not state that illegals are the same as citizens. It deals with everyone having the right to their day in court. Here is where I got that case from. http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/illegalrights.htm
OK now....everyone check your balls.
[Bouncy]
Drilldov2.0
07-24-2011, 21:25
The above case has to do with the right to constitutional protections and laws. It does not state that illegals are the same as citizens. It deals with everyone having the right to their day in court. Here is where I got that case from. http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/illegalrights.htm
I fully understand the meaning of the ruling. You did just contradict yourself though stating: " It does not state that illegals are the same as citizens. It deals with everyone having the right to their day in court."
I am wondering if you think that "everyone having their day in court" includes illegals?
CMP_5.56
07-24-2011, 21:32
5 pages of the same argument from a previous thread last week. You talk about islam, then somebody uses the constitution to stand up fir them. All the while never thinking about the fact that Islam is a societal belief structure. Including religion, Sharia law and keeping the church and state as one entity.
Our constitution and bill of rights call for the separation of church and state. Which Islam, if a true practicing Muslim, includes Sharia. To practice Sharia in the United States is to go against our constitution, which means you forfeit the rights it gives. If you choose to live outside our laws, you chose to lose your rights. So by practicing Islam, not just a religion, you forfeit the right for it to be protected for you to do so.
I have one question for all of you that are bent out of shape about Islam being religion/gov't.
there is a new guy running for pres. right leaning, pro-gun, pro-life, small gov't, less taxes, the whole right leaning package, but he is an affirmed atheist. Hell, one up it, he is Satanic (hasn't killed a goat or anything weird). Do you vote for him? You willing to put your pen to paper, making him the POTUS? For many of you, I have my doubts. To claim that Islam is weird because the line gets fuzzy is nonsense, every religion, EVERY religion, does.
The Constitution didn't lay out who gets what, you can pray to a retarded space goat that eats its own shit for all I care, not my problem, hell, if you want, get a petition, pass a law, and legalize Goat Prayer at NFL games. Go for it.
I say if you want to ban it, you are the one who is willing to ignore, and BETRAY the document my ancestors fought, and a few of them died, to protect. Hows that for PC?
When someone takes the pledge I care about one part, the flag they say it to, so long as they are a loyal and good American, the "under God" part can be referring to a goat in their head, that's their business, and theirs alone.
You can't take the rights you don't agree with and expect yours to be protected. If freedom of religion is off the table all the sudden because of "white men with guns." I have a feeling if that happens there is no way anyone will have your back when the guns are on the table. There is no footnote in the Constitution that says "or whatever, pick the parts you want"
If my freedom means people get to pray to a God I don't believe in, in a religion I don't understand, that means they are working!
Rock on America, this place is the best, even our "enemy" wants to live here. By the way, there are plenty of Muslims out there today, in the trenches next to the bravest sons and daughters of the US, shooting their own religious brethren. Hell, that means there are Muslims out there, right now, doing more to stop terrorism and protect the freedoms we enjoy in the US than YOU (assuming you aren't reading this from the Mid-East)! Hows that for something to chew on?
P.S. ball check comes up as two, thanks for the concern.
I have stopped seeing the political spectrum in the US as Right v. Left, I think this is a political creation. It seems to me the more honest and real divide is Freedom v. Control. Tax levels, minimum wage, social security, welfare, gay marriage, at the end of the day, this stuff is all small fries that in 100 years no one will remember, what people will remember is if our freedoms were protected or if they were lost. That's it, I am just waiting for the people from the far left and the people from the far right to realize what they really want is the freedom to be left alone, be it to smoke a pipe, marry a dude, or own a high cap magazine to protect their family. These people will realize they share little down deep with those they once saw as allies politically beyond surface level fluff, like tax loopholes. The true, and principled respect of freedom means, you have to respect the freedoms that you don't enjoy, thereby giving others the same freedom, if you can't do that, you like control, its just a matter of admitting it. No one wants control leveled on themselves, the question is, do you want control leveled on others?
Byte Stryke
07-24-2011, 23:08
Islam is not [B]just a religion...
if it were, your arguments would be valid.
its like saying that because I believe that killing everyone that doesn't believe the same way I do is my religion I should be allowed to do it.
Freedom of religion ends when it transgresses on the rights of others.
Islam is not [B]just a religion...
Name me one religion that is. Every religion I can think of involves a moral code, a way of life and a system of rules and judgments...at the least. these outside factors do play into society, the issue is just one of degree. Bang your iHead on the iWall all you want, but you are deluding yourself if you think Christianity is "just" a religion. Christian leaders lobby, plan, boycott, organize and petition, all outside of church hours. Just because their line is closer to ours makes the beliefs of others no less valid, and deserving of no fewer rights. If there is a single religion on earth that ends with whats in your heart and what you believe I am unaware of it.
Islam does have rules in Sharia that bleed into society, true. There is no refuting this, but so does every religion. If you are going to tell me Christianity hasn't denied "freedoms" to people in this country you are deeply mistaken. Just as you may see the second protecting 30 round mags and "those shoulder thingies" they may see their freedoms differently, marriage being a big one, A HUGE ONE. If you are going to tell me that your high-cap mags are more important to you than your spouse, you may need to keep your wife from reading this thread, and that "right" is denied, because its a "sin." No other reason for this ban is logical, sound, ethical, or holds water from more than a minute. -if you are going to say "sanctity of marriage" hold it for one second, in Sharia law, adultorers (sp.?) can be stoned to death...they may be onto something. That would help keep mom and dad at home, and probably drastically lower the divorce rate in the US! If you are anti-gay marriage "for the children" you better be anti-divorce "for the children," and maybe even pro-stoning "for the children" because dammit they're children!
Children are allowed wine in church, however, fully grown, independent American adults are not allowed other mind altering substances in their religion. Sure one is more sever, but the other is OK for children, No religion bias there...
Freedom of religion does end when it transgress the rights of others, agreed...can you elaborate how this prayer day transgressed your rights? why, for that matter, does polygamy transgress your rights? How about, peyote? Snake charming? Any rights transgressed yet? For that matter, does Sharia, when practiced in a subset of society, and not involving vigilantism (which is illegal, regardless of religious orientation), transgress YOUR rights?
5 pages of the same argument from a previous thread last week. You talk about islam, then somebody uses the constitution to stand up fir them. All the while never thinking about the fact that Islam is a societal belief structure. Including religion, Sharia law and keeping the church and state as one entity.
Our constitution and bill of rights call for the separation of church and state. Which Islam, if a true practicing Muslim, includes Sharia. To practice Sharia in the United States is to go against our constitution, which means you forfeit the rights it gives. If you choose to live outside our laws, you chose to lose your rights. So by practicing Islam, not just a religion, you forfeit the right for it to be protected for you to do so.
So now your argument to suspend the first amendment is because when it applies to a particular religion, they are exempt because their religion also features a form of government?
So now your argument to suspend the first amendment is because when it applies to a particular religion, they are exempt because their religion also features a form of government?
worth note CMP_5.56, this may be a trap. [Tooth]
Sorry to blow your cover Ridge
worth note CMP_5.56, this may be a trap. [Tooth]
Sorry to blow your cover Ridge
Its not a trap......... its common sense
worth note CMP_5.56, this may be a trap. [Tooth]
Sorry to blow your cover Ridge
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2009/341/0/7/Achmed_The_Dead_Terrorist_by_papizero1.jpg
Now this is what I am trying to understand. Because Mike did not add any details here as to why he has a problem with this event. Is this an event where Americans (Islamic Americans) are coming from all over the US to just pray together. Or are they trying to get the Gov to institute a day of gov sanctioned prayer. If they are trying to get Gov to take part in prayer I have an issue with that. Just like I do with the Christians do that crap too.
1. Who's Mike?
And yes they are trying to get a National Day of Prayer declared for them.
Guess you had to read the article.
Oh and sign up to help them as well it's on their website.
Byte Stryke
07-25-2011, 08:49
Name me one religion that is. Every religion I can think of involves a moral code, a way of life and a system of rules and judgments...at the least. these outside factors do play into society, the issue is just one of degree. Bang your iHead on the iWall all you want, but you are deluding yourself if you think Christianity is "just" a religion. Christian leaders lobby, plan, boycott, organize and petition, all outside of church hours. Just because their line is closer to ours makes the beliefs of others no less valid, and deserving of no fewer rights. If there is a single religion on earth that ends with whats in your heart and what you believe I am unaware of it.
Islam does have rules in Sharia that bleed into society, true. There is no refuting this, but so does every religion. If you are going to tell me Christianity hasn't denied "freedoms" to people in this country you are deeply mistaken. Just as you may see the second protecting 30 round mags and "those shoulder thingies" they may see their freedoms differently, marriage being a big one, A HUGE ONE. If you are going to tell me that your high-cap mags are more important to you than your spouse, you may need to keep your wife from reading this thread, and that "right" is denied, because its a "sin." No other reason for this ban is logical, sound, ethical, or holds water from more than a minute. -if you are going to say "sanctity of marriage" hold it for one second, in Sharia law, adultorers (sp.?) can be stoned to death...they may be onto something. That would help keep mom and dad at home, and probably drastically lower the divorce rate in the US! If you are anti-gay marriage "for the children" you better be anti-divorce "for the children," and maybe even pro-stoning "for the children" because dammit they're children!
Children are allowed wine in church, however, fully grown, independent American adults are not allowed other mind altering substances in their religion. Sure one is more sever, but the other is OK for children, No religion bias there...
Freedom of religion does end when it transgress the rights of others, agreed...can you elaborate how this prayer day transgressed your rights? why, for that matter, does polygamy transgress your rights? How about, peyote? Snake charming? Any rights transgressed yet? For that matter, does Sharia, when practiced in a subset of society, and not involving vigilantism (which is illegal, regardless of religious orientation), transgress YOUR rights?
So you are saying that their freedom of religion outweighs everyone else's rights to life?
Because as I have said before, its not just a religion with some moral code.
Its is an absolution of law that requires conversion and obedience under penalty of death.
Been there, Done that. Seen the beheadings and hangings in front of the "Justice Ministry"
Capitol Hill is public property, if a group wants to hold a prayer there, so what? It's their First Amendment right to do so.
that is correct. i will gladly support the right of those whom i disagree with to practice their constitutionally given rights. the moment we start not supporting their rights is the time that we start losing our rights. you don't have to agree with the premise, but you have to agree with the right.
5 pages of the same argument from a previous thread last week. You talk about islam, then somebody uses the constitution to stand up fir them. All the while never thinking about the fact that Islam is a societal belief structure. Including religion, Sharia law and keeping the church and state as one entity.
Our constitution and bill of rights call for the separation of church and state. Which Islam, if a true practicing Muslim, includes Sharia. To practice Sharia in the United States is to go against our constitution, which means you forfeit the rights it gives. If you choose to live outside our laws, you chose to lose your rights. So by practicing Islam, not just a religion, you forfeit the right for it to be protected for you to do so.
this is not true. only certain sects believe in the whole shebang, including sharia law. i know lots of muslims who don't give a rat's ass about it. it is true, however, that if people start to disobey the laws, then that over powers their right to practice their own religion. they can have whatever societal beliefs they want as long as they are within the rules already established. as far as separation of church and state, it really doesn't apply here. there are small groups that want sharia law to be enacted within our government but that will never, ever happen. its a pipe dream of extremists (in this sense i don't mean bombers, just extremists). i am a firm believer in christ, but there are nut jobs on our side too. its true they don't try to blow people up, but they have since the beginning of time tried to put christian beliefs and religion at the heart of the government. many would love it if the government declared christianity the STATE religion. groups still push for it today.
and for the record, separation of church and state was never meant, originally, to mean government entities and officials cannot practice their religion in a government building or setting, it simply meant that the government is not allowed to sanction a state religion and make laws about what religion everyone must practice. it was changed, later, to what people perceive it to be today.
Don't turn off the phonograph but sh*t, I'm tired of being a broken record!
I'll try to make this as clear as possible:
ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION!!
Didn't hear that? Step closer to my bullhorn. Islam is a governance and way of life, much to the effect that Communism is a way of life not just a governmental system. Islam dictates how you live your live, how you govern your area, and how you command you family. Furthermore, Thomas Jefferson was an outspoken atheist who believed that the moment you combine religion and government you rectally impale yourself with the big black c**K of tyranny (not his exact words). It works out great for those that believe what the religious government believes, but not so much for those that have contrary beliefs.
Step one: have islamic prayer at Capitol Hill.
Step two: enact a few small Sharia based laws.
Step three: All who do not submit to Allah will be beheaded. Goodbye America.
I have no problem with people praying to whatever god, idol, statue, cracker jack box prize, whatever... but when their beliefs call for the murder of those who don't believe the same, I draw a line in the sand and say cross it, you better be a better shot than I. America was founded by white Europeans (from all over, but mostly the UK- to include Ireland and Scotland) who didn't want religion creeping into their system of government. We are not a democracy here, we are a republic, and in the words of Plato: "A republic is far superior when the power is not given to just one man, one group, or one sect, but instead distributed evenly so all men, groups and sects have a voice in how the republic is governed."
And on another note You young Dumb people don't have any idea what this country was founded on. And you think that PC is the way to go don't offend those that are different. My dad fought in 2 wars and I listen to him all the time and we are Going down probably below a 3rd world nation and You are Proud. Get a fuk'n grip.
Grow up and get some balls and quit kiising up to our pres and our government. you pussies will surrender your guns as soon as they knock on the door.
That is why I say Ever day you lose something because you are too stupid to realize it is happening.
We had a Prayer Day (Christian) and now we need a Islamic Prayer day Fuk you.
im guessing your dad didn't fight for the rights of people who only agree with him. every single person differs in some way or another, some more than others, but if you want to split hairs we are all different and have different beliefs. some believe in the death penalty, some don't. some are republican some are democrat. some believe in one god, some believe in many. the constitution is quite clear that we are all supposed to be treated equally under the laws of this country. its literally the biggest thing that makes this country unique and special. there are TONS of people i don't agree with and some i think are just plain crazy. but they still have rights. i think westboro baptist church are the scum of the earth, but they still have some rights. frankly if i don't support the right to exercise those, i have dishonored this country, its founding fathers, my family members who fought for it, and everyone else in between. even if i was to march to protest some of these groups' actions, id STILL support their right to practice what they want within the laws.
i am a super conservative and super traditionalist. i think this country is going down the crapper probably as much as you do. i wish we could go back to the times of yester year where family meant something, patriotism was everywhere, and people didn't want to leach off of everyone else. but thats not what we are talking about here. we are talking about basic rights. so what if they are people you don't like? thats when you really find out just how much you really support the principles this country was founded on. i don't believe in treating minorities or majorities favorably or giving groups perks, but i believe in treating them all fairly.
Don't turn off the phonograph but sh*t, I'm tired of being a broken record!
I'll try to make this as clear as possible:
ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION!!
Didn't hear that? Step closer to my bullhorn. Islam is a governance and way of life, much to the effect that Communism is a way of life not just a governmental system. Islam dictates how you live your live, how you govern your area, and how you command you family. Furthermore, Thomas Jefferson was an outspoken atheist who believed that the moment you combine religion and government you rectally impale yourself with the big black c**K of tyranny (not his exact words). It works out great for those that believe what the religious government believes, but not so much for those that have contrary beliefs.
Step one: have islamic prayer at Capitol Hill.
Step two: enact a few small Sharia based laws.
Step three: All who do not submit to Allah will be beheaded. Goodbye America.
I have no problem with people praying to whatever god, idol, statue, cracker jack box prize, whatever... but when their beliefs call for the murder of those who don't believe the same, I draw a line in the sand and say cross it, you better be a better shot than I. America was founded by white Europeans (from all over, but mostly the UK- to include Ireland and Scotland) who didn't want religion creeping into their system of government. We are not a democracy here, we are a republic, and in the words of Plato: "A republic is far superior when the power is not given to just one man, one group, or one sect, but instead distributed evenly so all men, groups and sects have a voice in how the republic is governed."
what is judaism?
people within every religion differ on their beliefs on just how far that should go. judaism was originally created to be everything in someone's life, including politically. not all muslims believe islam should be everything in their life. many practice it just as christians or jews or anyone else. my muslim friends have zero interest in changing the united states government to practice islamic doctirine. in two of their cases, thats exactly why they fled here.
Jumpstart
07-25-2011, 10:19
I would like to comment on my beliefs of Islam in the USA. I will refrain as I am a white Christian male, and subject to persecution by the Homeland Security Administration for my beliefs.
If Islam were a religion and ONLY a religion I would have ZERO problem with it. None. Just like any other religion for that matter as I don't care. Believe what you want and as long as it doesn't infringe one anyone else's rights (assuming we're talking about those practicing in the US since rights differ by country) then it's fine by me and I feel that everyone has this freedom as afforded by the constitution.
The problem I have with Islam is it's NOT just a religion, it's a way of life/society/government as well. This way of life does NOT mix well with our way of life as afforded by the government we've created. In fact, the society/government that Islam preaches is in direct conflict with our current government. Bottom line is that for Islam to flourish as laid out in their holy guidelines our government must perish as we know it. They two are not able to plug into each other and it's like oil and water. No matter how much you want them to mix and coexist it's simply not possible. You can saw what you want about extremist v. fundamentalist v. radicals v. casual followers but the bottom line is this IS how it's written.
That's the problem I have with it. Not because it's a religion that I may or may not agree with but that it's a way of life that would require the demise of our way of life.
what is judaism?
people within every religion differ on their beliefs on just how far that should go. judaism was originally created to be everything in someone's life, including politically. not all muslims believe islam should be everything in their life. many practice it just as christians or jews or anyone else. my muslim friends have zero interest in changing the united states government to practice islamic doctirine. in two of their cases, thats exactly why they fled here.
Where does Judaism preach deceit and denial to gain numbers and then once you have the upper hand.... force that hand onto others who will follow or die? Where does Judaism preach surrender is only acceptable when it's your side surrendering and if an enemy surrenders their options are to convert or die?
I can appreciate what your friends have been through but I also have Christian and Catholic friends who don't understand the first thing about the religion they practice.
CMP_5.56
07-25-2011, 12:11
Name me one religion that is. Every religion I can think of involves a moral code, a way of life and a system of rules and judgments...at the least. these outside factors do play into society, the issue is just one of degree. Bang your iHead on the iWall all you want, but you are deluding yourself if you think Christianity is "just" a religion. Christian leaders lobby, plan, boycott, organize and petition, all outside of church hours. Just because their line is closer to ours makes the beliefs of others no less valid, and deserving of no fewer rights. If there is a single religion on earth that ends with whats in your heart and what you believe I am unaware of it.
Islam does have rules in Sharia that bleed into society, true. There is no refuting this, but so does every religion. If you are going to tell me Christianity hasn't denied "freedoms" to people in this country you are deeply mistaken. Just as you may see the second protecting 30 round mags and "those shoulder thingies" they may see their freedoms differently, marriage being a big one, A HUGE ONE. If you are going to tell me that your high-cap mags are more important to you than your spouse, you may need to keep your wife from reading this thread, and that "right" is denied, because its a "sin." No other reason for this ban is logical, sound, ethical, or holds water from more than a minute. -if you are going to say "sanctity of marriage" hold it for one second, in Sharia law, adultorers (sp.?) can be stoned to death...they may be onto something. That would help keep mom and dad at home, and probably drastically lower the divorce rate in the US! If you are anti-gay marriage "for the children" you better be anti-divorce "for the children," and maybe even pro-stoning "for the children" because dammit they're children!
Children are allowed wine in church, however, fully grown, independent American adults are not allowed other mind altering substances in their religion. Sure one is more sever, but the other is OK for children, No religion bias there...
Freedom of religion does end when it transgress the rights of others, agreed...can you elaborate how this prayer day transgressed your rights? why, for that matter, does polygamy transgress your rights? How about, peyote? Snake charming? Any rights transgressed yet? For that matter, does Sharia, when practiced in a subset of society, and not involving vigilantism (which is illegal, regardless of religious orientation), transgress YOUR rights?
You are right, religions all have a st of rules. They all bleed into society based on, in large, being the majority in the society. I am personally not against gay marriage. I dont care who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Calling it marriage instead of any other term for a lifetime legal binding partnership is what gets most people up in arms. I think it is based in the fact the terms marriage, married etc. all stem from religion, namely christianity.
My problem with islam is that of all religions I see, and I'm going into extremist church branches or anything, but the base of that religious belief is to be looked at. Of all religions i have ever studied, read about, or been introduced to, Islam is the only one whose laws of the religion would conflict with the laws of our country. To be a true Muslim means you practice Sharia, if you practice Sharia you break the laws of our nation, which in turn means you forfiet your rights.
People want to stand up for the constitution, and I am sure one of those people, but the basis of rule of law means you agree to live inside the law, or outside the law. When you choose outside you don't just break the laws you want to and keep the rights. No you lose the protection of the law you chose to ignore.
Where does Judaism preach deceit and denial to gain numbers and then once you have the upper hand.... force that hand onto others who will follow or die? Where does Judaism preach surrender is only acceptable when it's your side surrendering and if an enemy surrenders their options are to convert or die?
I can appreciate what your friends have been through but I also have Christian and Catholic friends who don't understand the first thing about the religion they practice.
+100! No other "religion" (see my comment above about how this applies to Islam) preaches absolute submission and conversion or extreme/severe punishment (ie: death) to those who refuse to join. That's not what America is founded upon, it was founded by people fleeing a religious society that persecuted them, thus why our founding fathers wanted to make it a safe place for people to practice whatever they believe and be governed by different ideals aside from religion.
+100! No other "religion" (see my comment above about how this applies to Islam) preaches absolute submission and conversion or extreme/severe punishment (ie: death) to those who refuse to join.
Many versions of christianity do. It's been a few too many years since bible class in my youth but best I can recall (very loose recollection), you submit to god, accept jesus, or burn in the lake of fire for a good long while.
Accept it and get heaven, reject it and get hell. While the "punishment" isn't immediate, or of this earth, I see that as punishment nonetheless. As such, yes, there are other religions that preach that.
Granted, I think all religions are a crock so I don't worry too much about any of them.
Many versions of christianity do. It's been a few too many years since bible class in my youth but best I can recall (very loose recollection), you submit to god, accept jesus, or burn in the lake of fire for a good long while.
Accept it and get heaven, reject it and get hell. While the "punishment" isn't immediate, or of this earth, I see that as punishment nonetheless. As such, yes, there are other religions that preach that.
Granted, I think all religions are a crock so I don't worry too much about any of them.
Not even close to the same thing. You're talking about post-life which, depending on how you believe, may or may not even exist and if it does... well, every religion is the only way to attain post-life salvation, correct?
The one thing we ALL know for sure is this life we're living right now. One religion teaches conversion or murder in the name of said religion and one doesn't. Not really a good comparison.
CMP_5.56
07-25-2011, 12:26
So now your argument to suspend the first amendment is because when it applies to a particular religion, they are exempt because their religion also features a form of government?
Okay, one thing people need to get over is Islam is not a true religion. It is a societal belief system that includes It's own government. Sharia and islam are one in the same, not parts you can pick and choose from. If you are a Muslim, you live by sharia, plain and simple. Under rule of law, which is what our country is supposed to be, if you live within the law you are protected by the law, if you choose to live outside the law you lose that protection.
You can not stand up for something that goes against the base rights of our nation and say it is protected by our rights. The basis for all of our rights is the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Islam takes away that which is the fundamental right of every human being. When taking the hand of a thief, or stoning a cheating partner, or beheading an infidel, you are going against the principles this nation was
on.
Making an argument that you have to give people all the rights of the bill of rights and our nations constitution, without having to live by the laws of our nation, you are making a dangerous statement. Under that mentality, saying everyone has the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, with out the responsibility to live under the law, is the same as saying, well old Bundy and Dahmer were doing what makes them happy, so let em do it.
All of our rights come with the responsibility to live within our rules and not to deny those rights to others. If you were a Muslim woman, your tone might change about this argument.
CMP_5.56
07-25-2011, 12:37
this is not true. only certain sects believe in the whole shebang, including sharia law. i know lots of muslims who don't give a rat's ass about it. it is true, however, that if people start to disobey the laws, then that over powers their right to practice their own religion. they can have whatever societal beliefs they want as long as they are within the rules already established. as far as separation of church and state, it really doesn't apply here. there are small groups that want sharia law to be enacted within our government but that will never, ever happen. its a pipe dream of extremists (in this sense i don't mean bombers, just extremists). i am a firm believer in christ, but there are nut jobs on our side too. its true they don't try to blow people up, but they have since the beginning of time tried to put christian beliefs and religion at the heart of the government. many would love it if the government declared christianity the STATE religion. groups still push for it today.
and for the record, separation of church and state was never meant, originally, to mean government entities and officials cannot practice their religion in a government building or setting, it simply meant that the government is not allowed to sanction a state religion and make laws about what religion everyone must practice. it was changed, later, to what people perceive it to be today.
I do understand what separation of church and state is. But in Islam, the church and state is one in the same. Just because people haven't started beheading infidels in public does not mean they are not practicing Sharia. There are many cases where someone on trial for commiting an act of violence has used Sharia as their defense. And I'm sure the mutilations that happen to Muslim women are practiced behind closed doors.
You day you know many Muslims that are good people, and i know a few as well, but in all honesty, I don't trust them because the base of their religion goes against my rights. Plain and simple.
Many versions of christianity do. It's been a few too many years since bible class in my youth but best I can recall (very loose recollection), you submit to god, accept jesus, or burn in the lake of fire for a good long while.
Accept it and get heaven, reject it and get hell. While the "punishment" isn't immediate, or of this earth, I see that as punishment nonetheless. As such, yes, there are other religions that preach that.
Granted, I think all religions are a crock so I don't worry too much about any of them.
While true, modern Christianity talks about what they believe will happen to those who do not believe in God and accept Jesus and all that. Islam preaches what the followers of Allah and Mohammad should DO to those that do not believe what they do. Kind of a pressure to act on non-believers who do not subscribe to their sick ideology.
CMP_5.56
07-25-2011, 12:58
Many versions of christianity do. It's been a few too many years since bible class in my youth but best I can recall (very loose recollection), you submit to god, accept jesus, or burn in the lake of fire for a good long while.
Accept it and get heaven, reject it and get hell. While the "punishment" isn't immediate, or of this earth, I see that as punishment nonetheless. As such, yes, there are other religions that preach that.
Granted, I think all religions are a crock so I don't worry too much about any of them.
Yes, Christianity does believe that if you choose to live a life outside its beliefs you will suffer consequences after life for that choice. So do many other religions. Nowhere does it say that you will be robbed of your life for making that choice. The one thing you're not seeing is Christianity does not take away your free will, as a matter of fact it is the focus of the religion that we were created with free will. Islam, does not want free will, and it takes it from all of its followers.
While true, modern Christianity talks about what they believe will happen to those who do not believe in God and accept Jesus and all that. Islam preaches what the followers of Allah and Mohammad should DO to those that do not believe what they do. Kind of a pressure to act on non-believers who do not subscribe to their sick ideology.
what do you think Evangelical Christians are or do? They just don't strap bombs on themselves (yet) see Norway.
what do you think Evangelical Christians are or do? They just don't strap bombs on themselves (yet) see Norway.
Evangelical Christians are not screaming out "Death to the non-belivers." At least they're not making their voices heard. Islam preaches, and this is conservative Islam I'm talking about, that the infidel is a viper and must be hunted down and killed as such. How do you kill a viper? Cut off it's head. Sounds strangely familiar, just ask Daniel Pearl, oh wait, you can't. I haven't seen any Christians film cutting off peoples heads, blowing up military convoys, and screaming "Holy war on those who don't believe what we believe!"
Evangelical Christians are not screaming out "Death to the non-belivers." At least they're not making their voices heard. Islam preaches, and this is conservative Islam I'm talking about, that the infidel is a viper and must be hunted down and killed as such. How do you kill a viper? Cut off it's head. Sounds strangely familiar, just ask Daniel Pearl, oh wait, you can't. I haven't seen any Christians film cutting off peoples heads, blowing up military convoys, and screaming "Holy war on those who don't believe what we believe!"
Not all, but let me tell you, there are some loons out there. I also think that Islamic extremists are a huge problem too. I just think its counter productive to treat all Muslims like they are. Islam is in their dark ages. While fighting fire with fire might win temporary battles, eventually you have to figure out a way to end the firefight. So unless you are willing to go out and commit genocide on 2 billion people..... what do you do?
Not all, but let me tell you, there are some loons out there. I also think that Islamic extremists are a huge problem too. I just think its counter productive to treat all Muslims like they are. Islam is in their dark ages.
Trying to compare a handful of religious zealots to the Nation if Islam is wrong. One hand is a few crazies and the other are millions doing exactly what the religion says to do.
While fighting fire with fire might win temporary battles, eventually you have to figure out a way to end the firefight. So unless you are willing to go out and commit genocide on 2 billion people..... what do you do?
What do you do? You don't permit them free reign of your country that's their self professed #1 enemy so they can actively add recruits from your people. You preserve your government and your way of life against ALL enemies and this includes the painfully obvious (to most) ones.
Keep in mind that the 1st amendment protecting someone's right to freedom of religion w/o persecution wouldn't exist in Sharia law which is what would rule the nation if Islam were to take over the way their scripture teaches. Ironic, don't ya think?
Keep in mind that the 1st amendment protecting someone's right to freedom of religion w/o persecution wouldn't exist in Sharia law which is what would rule the nation if Islam were to take over the way their scripture teaches. Ironic, don't ya think?
Freedom of Religion does exist in America and the last thing I want to do is for this nation become more like the bad things you see in them. Until beliefs become action there is no law broken. We should never prosecute someone for thoughts alone. Its downright Orwellian. So until the Muslim breaks a law, they have just as much right as you do to the 1st Amendment.
Freedom of Religion does exist in America and the last thing I want to do is for this nation become more like the bad things you see in them. Until beliefs become action there is no law broken. We should never prosecute someone for thoughts alone. Its downright Orwellian. So until the Muslim breaks a law, they have just as much right as you do to the 1st Amendment.
Great logic... let's arrest someone after they martyr themselves with a nuclear weapon outside the Capitol in D.C.! Let's not arrest and investigate a group of guys claiming they are the tip of the sword for Jihad in America, but they haven't acted yet! Oh and let's not forget, the Koran teaches them to lie in wait until they are strong enough to defeat their enemies, it's happened before, hence why until Post-WWII Muslim Arabs ruled Jerusalem, and not the European Christians. So you keep avoiding facing the problem until their knife is slowly entering your back. Me, I'm going to continue to struggle with this massive conundrum because I don't want to become what we formed this country against, but then again if nothing is done we will lose once they gain enough strength. France is already dealing with it, in just 15 years they WILL become an Islamic republic- there are figures out there and if you look at the Muslim population increase from the last 10 years you'll see it's only a matter of time until Muslims are the majority there.
France is already dealing with it, in just 15 years they WILL become an Islamic republic- there are figures out there and if you look at the Muslim population increase from the last 10 years you'll see it's only a matter of time until Muslims are the majority there.
Bearing in mind that it's been illegal to collect information about race and religion in the French census for about 100 years, but that recent unofficial polling suggests that less than 10% of the population is Islamic, perhaps you'd like to furnish us with some evidence to support the claim that in 15 years France is going to be an Islamic republic.
Bearing in mind that it's been illegal to collect information about race and religion in the French census for about 100 years, but that recent unofficial polling suggests that less than 10% of the population is Islamic, perhaps you'd like to furnish us with some evidence to support the claim that in 15 years France is going to be an Islamic republic.
I don't have the exact links, but an EU immigration committee found that over 20% of the population of France is Islamic, and they have average 5.8 kids per family, whereas the "non-Muslim" French families are comprised of 1.4 kids... that just proves when maturity comes around the Islamic families will be larger, thus bigger population.
Great logic... let's arrest someone after they martyr themselves with a nuclear weapon outside the Capitol in D.C.! Let's not arrest and investigate a group of guys claiming they are the tip of the sword for Jihad in America, but they haven't acted yet! Oh and let's not forget, the Koran teaches them to lie in wait until they are strong enough to defeat their enemies, it's happened before, hence why until Post-WWII Muslim Arabs ruled Jerusalem, and not the European Christians. So you keep avoiding facing the problem until their knife is slowly entering your back. Me, I'm going to continue to struggle with this massive conundrum because I don't want to become what we formed this country against, but then again if nothing is done we will lose once they gain enough strength. France is already dealing with it, in just 15 years they WILL become an Islamic republic- there are figures out there and if you look at the Muslim population increase from the last 10 years you'll see it's only a matter of time until Muslims are the majority there.
Those are not thoughts... those are actions. Does not matter if they carry through on those actions to the end. They are still the same thing as actions. We don't arrest people for thinking of killing someone do we? We arrest them for attempted murder. Which is an action.
France is fucked for many reasons. Having a too liberal immigration policy is one. Why do you think they are fighting Kadafi? To hopefully send those people back.
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