Sheriff Sign-off for NFA firearms

[FROGMAN]

I live in Douglas County, and am looking to get a suppressor transfered in.
I need the sheriff to sign the form 4, but I have been told that Sheriff Weaver will not sign off.

Questions:
1. Anyway around this? Please be specific.
2. I have a second home in Summit County. Will the Sheriff in Summit sign off?
3. (Assuming #2 happens) and the weapon is registered in Summit County, can I bring the rifle down to Douglas County without the suppressor? (To shoot unsuppressed and for cleaning)

Thank you in advance.

[KarlPMann]

1.) Yes. There are several in your case (maybe).

You can form a corporation. A corporation can purchase NFA Title II weapons without the CLEO signature. There are ups and downs to this, for more details please do a search in this forum for threads related to corporations.

You may also POSSIBLY get the CLEO in Summit County to sign. Technically, the person that signs is SUPPOSED to be the CLEO having jurisdiction where you reside. Where you reside is defined by BATFE as your PRIMARY place of residence. It's my understanding that they don't try to enforce that, it's too hard.

If the Summit County Sheriff will sign, I'd try that first, the corp. as a backup. I'd bet that he does sign.

Once the silencer is transferred to you legally, you can take it ANYWHERE you can legally possess any firearm. That means you can take the gun AND silencer to your home in Douglas County and tell the NAZI er I mean 'sheriff' to go **** ***. :evil: You can also use the suppressor in his little kingdom, whether he likes it or not. :twisted: If you look around you'll see that we do monthly shoots. One north every other month and one south the months in between. The south shoots are actually held in Douglas County just north of Woodland Park.

Welcome aboard. Karl.

[FROGMAN]

Thanks KarlPMann, your response made me laugh (about using it in his kingdom, lol)

Back on topic, I have read about forming a revocable living trust, in which case you add the title II items to the trust, pay the $200 tax, and actually wait less time for approval than acting as an individual. Like an LLC, you also bypass prints and photos as well.

Would you recommend a trust?
I hear you about the summit county sheriff, and the whole PRIMARY residence, but I do not wish to break the law in any way shape or form. If my county's sheriff is going to be a pain, then I would want to legally go around him, not just find another county sheriff who will sign. So thank you for that information.

[KarlPMann]

I honestly don't know too much about either. I do know the ups and downs to a corp as far as acquiring NFA weapons, but I know NOTHING of trusts in that regard. If BATFE alows it and the trust is easier to form or maintain, then I'd go that route. The main downs to the corp. is the paperwork, added annual cost for the corp. itself, and not having the gun reg'd. to yourself. Karl.

[FROGMAN]

Yea, the ATF allows the trust route. The "ups" are that with the trust, there is no annual fee, and the paperwork is minimal from what I hear. "Downs" are that it isnt registered in your name.

I am trying to get someone else in Douglas county to sign off. I just called the DC sheriff's office, and got redirected to someone else who they said was in charge of the NFA items and form 4's. It wasn't sheriff Weaver, it was a different LT. I left a message, hopefully he will come through. I'd rather just do this the easy way, and have my prints and photos on file, than have to learn how to make a revocable living trust.

I have heard you can have a Judge with arresting powers sign the form as well. Maybe I'll check that route if this LT thing doesnt work.

Thanks again KarlPMann.

[HunterCO]

You can have a judge, DA or (chief of police if you live in a city) sign also.

The corporate route would be the easy way to go in my opinion. Many people do it that way even though they can get sign off because then anybody listed as a corporate board member can posses the item.

[FROGMAN]

I called the DC sheriff's office today. I asked to speak with the sheriff about a sign off for an NFA firearm with a Form 4. The receptionist told me that a different LT was in charge of that stuff and gave me his number. I called and left a message. I will try again tomorrow.

I am aware that the sheriff can delegate this responsibility to other officers, and may have a chance here with the LT rather than sheriff Weaver.

If the LT declines, I guess I can contact a judge or prosecuting DA.

If any of these authorities ask why I need the suppressor, I am planning to tell them that it makes competition and recreational shooting more enjoyable.
Any other suggestions for legitimate reasons?

[MuzzleFlash]

Not a reason, but you can point out that they are relativly unregulated in other countries . This whole suppressor business is a US thing thanks to Hollywood. In Finland, they encourage them on ranges and when hunting to protect hearing. They are over-the-counter in France and available as a firearms accessory in Germany. Here's a pic from Walther's site:

http://www.carl-walther.de/englisch/defense/defense-55.html

[HunterCO]

You are wasting your time trust me. Alan sent a letter to them asking why they will not sign off and he showed me the response they gave. They basically gave some BS excuse about it's an ATF matter.

Nothing wrong with you calling and trying I am just letting you know it's all in vain. Many before you have tried already and they will not sign of period.

[FROGMAN]

Allright, well I guess I will go the Living Trust route. A lot of people on arfcom have had great success with that. Sounds like you just use Quicken Willmaker 2006. It makes legal trusts that you can print off and sign. Then you just add the Title II weapon (item) to the trust. Attatch a copy of the Trust to the Form 4's, and send into the ATF. No prints, photos, or CLEO sign off. They say the approval time is usually less than if you act as an individual, because there are no prints to run.

Im trying to gain as much info as possible, and I can update as soon as I know EXACTLY what to do.

Anyone else try this route, or have any other info on it?

[MuzzleFlash]

Trusts have beneficiaries and if they are minors when you kick the bucket, have become prohibited, live in a non-NFA state, etc. it can become a mess. LLCs are perpetual beyond your lifetime, and in theory could be passed from your kids to their kids, etc (if this civil right isn't destroyed by then).

Also, you can transfer all the assets of the corp en masse by selling the corp to someone else. This doesn't trigger the $200 per item transfer taxes since the ownership of the NFA items still rests in the corp.

Something to ponder.

[FROGMAN]

Trusts have beneficiaries and if they are minors when you kick the bucket, have become prohibited, live in a non-NFA state, etc. it can become a mess. LLCs are perpetual beyond your lifetime, and in theory could be passed from your kids to their kids, etc (if this civil right isn't destroyed by then).

Also, you can transfer all the assets of the corp en masse by selling the corp to someone else. This doesn't trigger the $200 per item transfer taxes since the ownership of the NFA items still rests in the corp.

Something to ponder.

Thanks MuzzleFlash for that info, I did not know that. I am pretty sure that with the trust, you can name yourself as the beneficiary, aswell as the grantor. So when you expel, I do not know what comes of the trust. Plus with a living trust, there are no annual fees or taxes to pay.

I am probably going to have a lawyer draft the trust, in which case I will probably have all these questions answered. I just dont want to pay 200 to get the item, and another 200 every year just because some sheriff wont sign off.

[KarlPMann]

You don't pay the $200.00 every year no matter what way you get them. Corp., LLC, Trust, individual, etc. Doesn't matter. What you pay annually is the stuff related to having the corp. License or whatever they call it. Karl.

[FROGMAN]

You don't pay the $200.00 every year no matter what way you get them. Corp., LLC, Trust, individual, etc. Doesn't matter. What you pay annually is the stuff related to having the corp. License or whatever they call it. Karl.

Yea, I know it's a one time transfer fee. I had heard that the LLC fees were around $200 a year (which they aren't, more like $25). Thats why I said the "$200 every year" *Just clarifying*

It sounds like I may be able to go with the sign off from the summit county sheriff, but there may be some hurdles since that address doesnt match my drivers license address. I think the trust or LLC is the legitimate option, so both my father and I can have legal access to the suppressor, with or without eachother present.

In fact, we may already have an LLC that we can add to. Would you recommend this or Making a NFA items only LLC?

Thank you

[KarlPMann]

That's a good question for a lwayer. :roll: Karl.