View Full Version : ballistic protection question
just a random curious question, how many here own ballistic protection? whether it be head protection, body, extremities, whatever. ive heard people in the firearm community claim its essential and ive heard people claim its a huge waste of money. ive heard people say anyone with any prudence would own some and ive heard people say anyone who owns some is a paranoid nut. im curious to see how many here own some and if so, why? if not, why not?
KevDen2005
07-31-2011, 00:58
I'm required to wear it for work. When I'm off duty, I carry all the time, but don't wear ballistic protection.
It is probably better to have one than not having one.
Home defense situation, I will be even busy just grabbing firearm, flaslight, and cell with me.
Would I wear that around regularly? no way.
Very very very hot wearing them.
Feel like I just came out of sauna/steamroom , when I just walk 10 minutes with it.
Glock Shooter
07-31-2011, 07:01
It is probably better to have one than not having one.
Home defense situation, I will be even busy just grabbing firearm, flaslight, and cell with me.
Would I wear that around regularly? no way.
Very very very hot wearing them.
Feel like I just came out of sauna/steamroom , when I just walk 10 minutes with it.
+1 Better to have than to have not. Wouldn't turn it down if I found one in XXL to keep in the trunk or in the closet.
NEEDING ballistic protection is just like NEEDING a gun.
If you NEED it, you REALLY NEED IT.
M2MG
NEEDING ballistic protection is just like NEEDING a gun.
If you NEED it, you REALLY NEED IT.
M2MG
better to have it and not need it, the need it and not have it.
I wouldnt go out and spend $2500 on some body armor, but if you keep an eye out on CL you can buy 2500 armor for a few hundred.
I had a level 2 vest that I bought from a cop buddy.
I only wore it when I was pheasant hunting on some public land back home. There were too many "hunters" that were unaware of their surroundings. I had shot rain down on us a few times and when my buddy was getting a new vest he gave me his.
I gained some weight and it no longer fit
AirbornePathogen
07-31-2011, 09:06
I have a vest, mainly because I can wear it at work, but I'm not required to. I do usually wear it when I'm working in the field though. I also have a plate carrier that I'm setting up as my SHTF rig, sooner or later I'll get some plates and/or panels for that.
I've got an old Vietnam era Flak that a buddy gave me. Not really armor but it is kinda neat to have around. Very heavy and offers little protection against small arms. Mainly designed for shrapnel.
i go through phases with armor , some times ill have it around just in case but all it does is sit there ,it is heavy and hot , if the ship goes down ill give up the armor weight to carry more water and ammo
blacklabel
07-31-2011, 10:56
I've never seriously entertained the idea of owning any armor. I'm not LE and would never wear it except possibly out shooting and I do my best to not shoot near anyone so the usefulness would be lost on me.
If I lived in Greeley, depending on the area, I would want some armor. Guys walking around with MS13 tattooed on their face and all. Yep, saw it in a grocery store near 11th Ave and Hwy 34. My buddy lives there and and hears gunshots all the time. I've even had police tell me they gets shots fired calls regularly.
blacklabel
07-31-2011, 11:11
And I'm a 6'3 285lb white guy with my head shaved. You'd think they'd give me more grief. I've briefly spoken to a couple of guys with MS-13 tattoed on their heads and they've been surprisingly nice. I'm not deranged though and know that if we were in the 'hood and they wanted to give me trouble, they definitely would. That's why I stay away from the seedy parts of town and carry always.
Touche. I also try to stay away from those parts. I don't always carry though. I really should carry more.
blacklabel
07-31-2011, 11:22
I lived on the corner of 8th Ave and 16th St for a couple of years. That was the time that I should have kept a full blown plate carrier on at all times. Definitely saw some interesting things and the weekends during the summer would bring quite a few gunshots.
We didn't have a single thing happen to us there though. It helps that after 8pm or so, you can stand outside and see Greeley PD drive by a half dozen times in 5 minutes.
I have some.. Never really felt the need to wear it..but it's great to throw it on when people come to the 'ghetto' just so I can go to the store.. always makes people laugh... oh..and should SHTF.. I can at least have a little more protection.. not wearing it for the zombies though.. [Tooth]
I think I might actually be more interested in some sort of protection against blades. Besides chain mail and plate steel, do they make such a thing?
Here you go Irving: www.turtleskin.com/Body-Armor.aspx (http://www.turtleskin.com/Body-Armor.aspx)
When looking for a vest, check to see if it has a stab rating.
i don't think many would argue that having it for everyday use is a waste on most of us. but as some have said having it around for shtf scenarios or even just for some off the wall situation doesn't seem like a bad idea. the problem is its pretty damn expensive. but if, and im not that paranoid, but still, if the government was to fall or worse yet become oppressive, it wouldn't be too bad to have some protection if people are shooting back. its an interesting thought that ive gone from "i really want some just in case" to "its a complete waste of money, no way" and then back again.
GunsRBadMMMMKay
07-31-2011, 13:54
I think I might actually be more interested in some sort of protection against blades. Besides chain mail and plate steel, do they make such a thing?
That is what they usually issue to prison guards, is it not?
My experience with armor....it is extremely hot, uncomfortable, and a little on the side of bulky/heavy. Soft armor is lighter, but only stops "most" pistol rounds, while plate armor is even more bulky and heavy and only stops a few direct hits from rifles before it's soft armor.
Do I own...maybe. Would I wear it if necessary - certainly. Do I wear it every day "just in case"....hell no. Definitely agree that it is better to have and not need, but unless your job requires you to wear it every day I wouldn't.
That is what they usually issue to prison guards, is it not?
My experience with armor....it is extremely hot, uncomfortable, and a little on the side of bulky/heavy. Soft armor is lighter, but only stops "most" pistol rounds, while plate armor is even more bulky and heavy and only stops a few direct hits from rifles before it's soft armor.
Do I own...maybe. Would I wear it if necessary - certainly. Do I wear it every day "just in case"....hell no. Definitely agree that it is better to have and not need, but unless your job requires you to wear it every day I wouldn't.
i agree but im not really talking about wearing it daily at all. but with complete armor available even on ebay, to stop up to 7.62, and complete with military helmets, neck protection, arm protection etc, i was just curious who has some and why, and if they don't, why not. like i said, it seems to me like something that although expensive could be invaluable to have sometime down the road. who knows. but with that thinking, we could all buy apc's too (which i do want funny enough, but can probably never afford). obviously there is a level of preparadness and we all draw the line somewhere different so its interesting to hear people out on their thoughts and beliefs.
Several sets of level IIIA wraparound, level IV plates in carriers, helmets, you name it...but then again, we work on ranges & in shoothouses for a living.
GunsRBadMMMMKay
07-31-2011, 22:43
i agree but im not really talking about wearing it daily at all. but with complete armor available even on ebay, to stop up to 7.62, and complete with military helmets, neck protection, arm protection etc, i was just curious who has some and why, and if they don't, why not. like i said, it seems to me like something that although expensive could be invaluable to have sometime down the road. who knows. but with that thinking, we could all buy apc's too (which i do want funny enough, but can probably never afford). obviously there is a level of preparadness and we all draw the line somewhere different so its interesting to hear people out on their thoughts and beliefs.
I would love to have an APC too - nothing wrong with that [Beer]
IDK if I would trust the ceramic plates off ebay....just saying.
I've got an old flak jacket and a k-pot...just cool to have around, I don't think I'll really ever need it.
The only armor I would ever wear would be IIIA ballistic ESAPI protection... it's enough to stop rifle rounds, and guess what, carrier with plates cost way too much to justify- I'd rather spend the money on an H&K MP5. LE I can understand, private security I can understand, but the common person, unless you're going around looking for trouble, you shouldn't need it. At the range your standard kevlar vest won't do diddly if the irresponsible person next to you is shooting a .223 or 7.62 rifle.
The only armor I would ever wear would be IIIA ballistic ESAPI protection... it's enough to stop rifle rounds, and guess what, carrier with plates cost way too much to justify-
ummm....the ESAPI you are referring to are level IV plates, not level IIIA.
Plate Carrier: $170 new
2 Level IV Plates: $1000
I'd rather spend the money on an H&K MP5.
MP5: Starting at $1800 post 86, $5K pre 86.
LE I can understand, private security I can understand, but the common person, unless you're going around looking for trouble, you shouldn't need it.
Agreed
At the range your standard kevlar vest won't do diddly if the irresponsible person next to you is shooting a .223 or 7.62 rifle.
Level IIIA does. read here (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/223054.pdf)
My mistake on the III and IV difference... long weekend.
I know about IIIA, but I'm talking about mom and pop purchased kevlar vests designed for .357mag and lower caliber (standard police issue standards back in the 90's).
And on the MP5 thing, I wasn't saying they're comparable prices, I was stating for how much a full armor system costs (DoD standards) that money would be better spent toward something I actually want, not something that I probably would never actually use.
There are no published "DoD standards" on armor. The amount each service menber is required to wear is determined by their unit & METT-TC guided. ie...the normal fobbit will have to wear full vest, groin, neck, etc...just to go to the chow hall where the standard grunt may only have to wear a vest & plates and SOCOM can wear what they want (usually just plates, no need to wear level IIIA & level IV together).
GunsRBadMMMMKay
08-01-2011, 12:27
Has anyone seen the vietnam era rifle rated armor? Literally looks like a turtle shell, made out of steel lol. (I think it was vietnam era - that is what I was told when I seen some being sold as a collectible once....)
There are no published "DoD standards" on armor. The amount each service menber is required to wear is determined by their unit & METT-TC guided. ie...the normal fobbit will have to wear full vest, groin, neck, etc...just to go to the chow hall where the standard grunt may only have to wear a vest & plates and SOCOM can wear what they want (usually just plates, no need to wear level IIIA & level IV together).
I'm talking about full system- what the DOD states is issued body armor gear... coloccw you keep retorting out of context, WTF? I'm full aware that unit guidelines dictate the level or armor SMs wear, I helped write it for our PSD team (with CSM approval). I'm more speaking in tune to the IOTV system with 4 ESAPI plates, the cost alone (well what .gov pays) would buy much nicer offensive gear- ie Guns.
I'm talking about full system- what the DOD states is issued body armor gear... coloccw you keep retorting out of context, WTF? I'm full aware that unit guidelines dictate the level or armor SMs wear, I helped write it for our PSD team (with CSM approval). I'm more speaking in tune to the IOTV system with 4 ESAPI plates, the cost alone (well what .gov pays) would buy much nicer offensive gear- ie Guns.
Guns don't stop IEDs, or bullets....total offense is not the solution.
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