Possible workable renewable energy?

[TFOGGER]

http://www.gizmag.com/enviromission-solar-tower-arizona-clean-energy-renewable/19287/

[Hoosier]

Heat Chimneys are a simple technology, but to get the numbers up there they have to be built really, really large. Have to make sure the glass greenhouse can withstand hail storms. Some designs have the enclosure being used for growing plants near the outer edge, before the air gets too hot or is moving too fast.

H.

[nynco]

Interesting, thanks for posting. Also, looks like that design would work well in CO too.

[netsecsys]

There are many sources of unclaimed energy that we can tap as a society as well as individually (if you can figure out the hurdles the government puts in your way). Wind, solar (passive and active), gravity, gasification, methane, tidal, biofuels to name a few.

For instance, my wife and I are working towards purchasing south facing property on a slope. Towards the top of the property, I will use a solar pump on my well which will fill (3) 1500 gallon cisterns. We will have (3) 1500 gallon cisterns near the bottom of the property. We will run PVC piping between the two sets of cisterns and have a harris microhydro generator just in from of the bottom set to generate energy to a battery bank. Using a water ram (which does not need electricity) we will send the water back up to the upper set of cisterns and the process will start again. It will cost me a bunch of overtime at work but for me the benefit of not relying upon the "system", it is well worth it.

Youtube is full of folks doing cool things to generate their own electricity. A strong ally of generating your own energy is ensuring you make use of all the potential energy you are using now (i.e. heating water with a woodburning stove, capturing the heat released by your clothes dryer that just pumps it outside, radiant floor heating(and cooling in the summer). The "green" movement could learn quite a bit from the petroleum refining industry. They have very little waste (not because they are green but because it is a waste of profits if they don't) and are very energy efficient.

Ok. I'm done... ;) Thanks.

[TFOGGER]

I was intrigued by this as it doesn't require water or any exotic materials, just hot air....think of the untapped resources of that in DC.....[LOL]


Seriously, though, this has potential because of the high efficiency. It would seem to be something that works on a fairly massive scale, but not so much on a smaller one.

[68Charger]

it seems like this could have great potential for co-generation, as was mentioned growing on the outer parts of the ring before the air is too hot or moving too fast.

what about solar panels- what kind of heat can they take? could they occupy some of the space in the "greenhouse" where it is hotter? What about housing other heat sources inside that area, or using heat chimneys in places where you already need to have heat that you're trying to vent?

Just throwing some ideas out there- but co-generation is how you really drive up efficiency... like heating water with exhaust temp from a generator (as an example)

[Hoosier]

For instance, my wife and I are working towards purchasing south facing property on a slope. Towards the top of the property, I will use a solar pump on my well which will fill (3) 1500 gallon cisterns. We will have (3) 1500 gallon cisterns near the bottom of the property. We will run PVC piping between the two sets of cisterns and have a harris microhydro generator just in from of the bottom set to generate energy to a battery bank. Using a water ram (which does not need electricity) we will send the water back up to the upper set of cisterns and the process will start again. It will cost me a bunch of overtime at work but for me the benefit of not relying upon the "system", it is well worth it.

How is what you are describing not an over-unity device? In other words, it sounds like you're describing perpetual motion. A water ram requires a large supply of flowing water, only some portion of which is pumped. If you were trying to harness a flowing stream coming down a hill to return some of that water back up, it would work. I don't see how it'll work with two cisterns -- and certainly not in any way that will generate continuous power without violating the third law of thermodynamics.

H.

[netsecsys]

I was intrigued by this as it doesn't require water or any exotic materials, just hot air....think of the untapped resources of that in DC.....[LOL] Not to mention they could power the world with the methane coming off all that BS they are spewing...

[Sharpienads]

Very interesting. And even if it doesn't work, the gubment will subsidize and say that it does. It's a win-win.

[netsecsys]

How is what you are describing not an over-unity device? In other words, it sounds like you're describing perpetual motion. A water ram requires a large supply of flowing water, only some portion of which is pumped. If you were trying to harness a flowing stream coming down a hill to return some of that water back up, it would work. I don't see how it'll work with two cisterns -- and certainly not in any way that will generate continuous power without violating the third law of thermodynamics.

H.

I will have two sets of cisterns. One at the top of the property and one set at the bottom. There will be some flow and head downstream the cisterns at the bottom of the property that can send some (not all) of the water back up to the upper tanks to keep them filled (taking some load off the pump system at the top) with the water ram. Not talking about perpetual motion. Thanks.

[Hoosier]

I will have two sets of cisterns. One at the top of the property and one set at the bottom. There will be some flow and head downstream the cisterns at the bottom of the property that can send some (not all) of the water back up to the upper tanks to keep them filled (taking some load off the pump system at the top) with the water ram. Not talking about perpetual motion. Thanks.

Ok, as long as you aren't talking about perpetual motion. How are you getting water into the cisterns, rain collection or a well? I'd love to live off-grid -- except I need internet. ;P

H.

[Glock Shooter]

I work for an Energy company in Boulder providing efficiency & sustainability solutions for Utilities and major end users. I'll ask one of my research team to look into this technology and I'll follow up. Would love to see Colorado leading the way for energy independence.

[68Charger]

I work for an Energy company in Boulder providing efficiency & sustainability solutions for Utilities and major end users. I'll ask one of my research team to look into this technology and I'll follow up. Would love to see Colorado leading the way for energy independence.

Here in Colorado, put something on the top that will use the wind current to pull air out of the chimney... that should give a boost with the winds here [Coffee]

[Ronin13]

A friend and I came up with a pretty neat renewable energy concept some years back- but we're not engineers so not sure how exactly to do it- but in theory it should work. It involves using trash to keep a fire lit that heats up water to rotate a hydro-electric turbine, while also using water to filter the smoke and other toxins that are burned. The only labor would be keeping the fire stoked and theoretically would create limitless energy as long as you have stuff to throw away.

[Hoosier]

A friend and I came up with a pretty neat renewable energy concept some years back- but we're not engineers so not sure how exactly to do it- but in theory it should work. It involves using trash to keep a fire lit that heats up water to rotate a hydro-electric turbine, while also using water to filter the smoke and other toxins that are burned. The only labor would be keeping the fire stoked and theoretically would create limitless energy as long as you have stuff to throw away.

Burning trash normally is pretty yucky. However there are Gassifiers that I think someone else mentioned. They burn trash and use the heat to pre-heat the trash before they burn it. That preheated trash releases gasses that are flammable, and are used to burn the trash at a much higher temperature. The net result is you end up with mostly carbon and black glass-like shards. There isn't a lot of surplus energy out of the system, and it still produces CO2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration

I saw a neat system that uses the CO2 rich gas coming out of a power plant and funneling it through clear plastic bags filled with pond water. The algae bloomed in the sunlight (bags hung in greenhouses). The algae was then processed into an oil. Essentially the algae took the CO2 from the power plant, hydrogen from water, and sunlight for power to produce a hydrocarbon. Presumably it could run on any source of CO2.

[netsecsys]

Ok, as long as you aren't talking about perpetual motion. How are you getting water into the cisterns, rain collection or a well? I'd love to live off-grid -- except I need internet. ;P

H.

Preferably, spring fed. Realistically, well powered by solar w/small battery array (generator as a backup).

You can be off grid and still have internet..but satellite internet sucks (ask me how I know... [Bang] )

[Ronin13]

Burning trash normally is pretty yucky. However there are Gassifiers that I think someone else mentioned. They burn trash and use the heat to pre-heat the trash before they burn it. That preheated trash releases gasses that are flammable, and are used to burn the trash at a much higher temperature. The net result is you end up with mostly carbon and black glass-like shards. There isn't a lot of surplus energy out of the system, and it still produces CO2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration

I saw a neat system that uses the CO2 rich gas coming out of a power plant and funneling it through clear plastic bags filled with pond water. The algae bloomed in the sunlight (bags hung in greenhouses). The algae was then processed into an oil. Essentially the algae took the CO2 from the power plant, hydrogen from water, and sunlight for power to produce a hydrocarbon. Presumably it could run on any source of CO2.

Well our idea, and I'd like to get an engineer input on it, was not focused on burning trash- hydro electricity from heating water to turn a turbine. But the algae/water filter was kind of what we were playing around with the idea of since most toxins can be absorbed through water and not pollute the air.
Here is a concept drawing we did (I'm no artist and there is not much detail- simple concept art from MSPaint):
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g66/RyGuy1321/CONCEPT.jpg

[Hoosier]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g66/RyGuy1321/CONCEPT.jpg

This article seems to sum up the pros and cons of what you're talking about:

http://blogs.forbes.com/energysource/2010/06/09/how-to-burn-trash-for-power/

Another interesting technology for turning a temperature differential into power is the Sterling engine. It's a closed cycle heat engine that works by having hot on one side and cold on the other. Anywhere you have a thermal gradient you can use this technology.

H.