Another gun sale question.

[Scanker19]

Can you drive a gun to another state and sell it to a legal resident of that state, Given that private sales are legal there? Can someone provide a reference to their answer as well. I'm not having much luck.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv....but my understanding is that if they cross state lines, it's federal jurisdiction and governed by federal law. Heard that active military is granted the equivelant of being a state citizen where stationed, and I have also heard that family ties make for different rules as well but overall I would have to say...NO, you can't private party sale to another state you have to go through an ffl.

(Would have also added that what people don't know won't hurt them but you did post on a public forum :P)

[alxone]

as far as i know you can buy a gun out of state and drive it home but you cant drive a gun across state lines with the intention of selling unless you have a c&r or an ffl

[car-15]

short answer no. long answer below

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

B. UNLICENSED PERSONS

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

Shipping Methods:

B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

[Zundfolge]

I do believe it's perfectly legal for you to drive your gun into another state and take it to a local FFL there and have him transfer it to the buyer (instead of shipping it) ... but its just out of the ordinary enough that I bet most FFLs wouldn't be comfortable doing it (plus shipping it is likely cheaper).

[Colorado Luckydog]

A couple of questions. Long gun? Bordering state? Bottom line is, don't do it if your not sure. Why the hell would you drive to another state to sell a gun? To make an extra 50 bucks and spend 100 bucks in gas?

[Scanker19]

A couple of questions. Long gun? Bordering state? Bottom line is, don't do it if your not sure. Why the hell would you drive to another state to sell a gun? To make an extra 50 bucks and spend 100 bucks in gas?

Family.

[alxone]

Family.if its family then im pretty sure you can give it to a relative as a gift .but you might need an ffl still .

[BlasterBob]

Jordan, NO!! Being a bordering State would make absolutely no difference either as the Federal law still prevails.
The post made by car-15 pretty well covers it for you.
Providing you transport it in a legal condition (some States require the firearm to be broken down,unloaded, in a case and locked in a separate compartment - like in Illinois), you could possibly take it to an "AGREEABLE" FFL in the state where you want to transfer it and that FFL, can run it through his books to make the transfer legal - after the required background check is completed. That FFL will most likely require payment for his service. If that FFL takes it and enters it into his bound book as required, and the intended recipient does not pass the background check, the FFL would have to have YOU fill out the 4473 and do a background check on you for you to get your own gun back. If you are talking handgun and NOT a long gun, the FFL couldn't return it to you directly (if the intended recipient failed the background check) but would have to ship it to a FFL here in your home State where you'd have to go through all the paperwork again for your own gun.
Sad but true.
OK, now who's going to be the first to tell me that I'm full of crap on this one?

[BlasterBob]

Family.

Same applies for family also. Only other legal way, that I am aware of, is when the firearm is bequeathed to someone (due to death) and then no FFL or 4473 crap would be necessary providing the recipient is legally able to accept/own the firearm and the firearm type is allowed in his State.

[Zundfolge]

Providing you transport it in a legal condition (some States require the firearm to be broken down,unloaded, in a case and locked in a separate compartment - like in Illinois), you could possibly take it to an "AGREEABLE" FFL in the state where you want to transfer it and that FFL, can run it through his books to make the transfer legal - after the required background check is completed. That FFL will most likely require payment for his service. If that FFL takes it and enters it into his bound book as required, and the intended recipient does not pass the background check, the FFL would have to have YOU fill out the 4473 and do a background check on you for you to get your own gun back.

OK, now who's going to be the first to tell me that I'm full of crap on this one?
Nope, I think that's pretty much right.

The difficulty is going to be finding an AGREEABLE FFL ... most FFLs are extremely wary of doing anything that seems out of the ordinary since they are beholden to an inconsistent and capricious government agency that at least can end their livelihood at worst will burn down their house and stomp their kittens.

The only way to find out is to start calling FFLs in the buyer's local area.

My brother lives in Raymore Missouri (suburb of KCMO) and the FFLs around the Kansas City are are used to this type of transaction (since the KC Metro Area is in two states ... three if you count folk in the Nebraska towns close by. But again, FFLs are hesitant to do anything out of the ordinary (especially if the gun in question is a handgun).

[Scanker19]

Well if this happens it would be in New mexico which I am a Tax paying resident of. I live here in CO with a Co drivers license cause of the military. So would I have dual "citizenship".

Also How do they know, So if you move to a state do you have to do a transfer for your guns bought in State X? Or because you are now a resident of state Y so are your guns.

[Circuits]

Well if this happens it would be in New mexico which I am a Tax paying resident of. I live here in CO with a Co drivers license cause of the military. So would I have dual "citizenship".

Also How do they know, So if you move to a state do you have to do a transfer for your guns bought in State X? Or because you are now a resident of state Y so are your guns.

As a dual state resident you could, indeed, transport your personal firearm back to NM, and provided you are in residence in NM at the time, transfer that firearm to a resident of NM, provided NM allows that private sale. Just driving there to do the sale/gift wouldn't be legal, though if you were in residence there for leave or something, that would be OK. ATF might still consider it shifty, but it meets the letter of the law.

"They" wouldn't know unless you told them, or it was somehow established as a result of an investigation, in which case you'd have bigger things to worry about, probably. You may always transport your own firearms interstate without an FFL, provided the firearms are legal in your origination and destination states. If the transportation is a permanent move, that's OK too, though you'll have to comply with state laws in your new state, which might require a permit to own a handgun, for instance.

If you were moving to New York, as an example, your long guns could come with you, provided they comply with NY's assault weapon ban, but your handguns would have to go to a New York FFL until you had your New York pistol permit.

[BlasterBob]

Well if this happens it would be in New mexico which I am a Tax paying resident of. I live here in CO with a Co drivers license cause of the military. So would I have dual "citizenship".


Jordan, if you are a "tax paying resident of NM" would certainly appear that you must have a residence down there which according to what circuits posted would probably make it OK.
I am the type guy who likes to stay well within the letter of the law and if I were in a position like you are in, with a true residence down in NM I'd most likely just make the personal transfer. There is so damn much "gray area" contained in the laws that we have to contend with that it's really difficult to please everyone.