View Full Version : 2 Police officers came to my house
I had 2 police officers come to my house cause me and my wife had purchased to many guns in the last couple of months. Has anyone ever had that happen? I really feel like my privacy has been seriosly violated, and I would like to know what I can do about it, and if it has happened to any one else on here. They had me open all of my Safes and wanted to take pictures.
Bailey Guns
08-07-2011, 19:48
I had 2 police officers come to my house cause me and my wife had purchased to many guns in the last couple of months. Has anyone ever had that happen? I really feel like my privacy has been seriosly violated, and I would like to know what I can do about it, and if it has happened to any one else on here. They had me open all of my Safes and wanted to take pictures.
Did they have a warrant? Did you let them?
13 years, 3 FFLs (none currently), and I've not so much as had an audit.
Did they have a warrant? Did you let them? Yes I did cause the way it happened was they asked if we could go somewere quiet to talk, so we went into our room. Which happens to have all my gun safes, they asked if I would mind opening them up to see what is inside, and I did as I have nothing to hide, they asked if they could take pictures and I did not feel comfortable with that so I said no. I just want to know why they felt the need to come out to my house and see all my guns. It is really bothering me, I should be able to buy as many guns as I want and so should my wife.
I too think I've pushed the envelope but nothing's come of it. Sending local PD though? Either you're full of it or something very fishy's goin' on.
Colorado Luckydog
08-07-2011, 19:59
I hope you didn't let them. I'm not sure what I would but consulting a lawyer would be one of them. I would be calling dudley at Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and ask what you should do. I have his email if you don't. Or a phone number is on their web site.
What kind of police officers?
blacklabel
08-07-2011, 20:09
I'd start the process of getting a lawyer on the line. Something's definitely up and if nothing else, you should find out how they got that information and why.
Colorado Luckydog
08-07-2011, 20:13
I'd start the process of getting a lawyer on the line. Something's definitely up and if nothing else, you should find out how they got that information and why.
X2
Yes you have been violated. Did you buy all the guns from one ffl dealer? Then it must have been them that said something to the cops? Did you tell a liberal friend about all the new guns? who told on you? And why did you let the cops in your gun safe, house and bedroom? Tell them to get a warrant of go &&())*&^%^%$
sneakerd
08-07-2011, 20:41
Come 'on. That's insane. I would think that if as you say it was a matter of them coming to the house because you bought too many guns- it would be the BATF, not the local PD. Not buying it. There has to be something else going on.
I'd start the process of getting a lawyer on the line. Something's definitely up and if nothing else, you should find out how they got that information and why. I am pretty sure I know how, there is a company here in greeley big R of greeley is the only place we have our guns sent from gunbroker, there is a guy there that makes a comment everytime we go in, like oh you are getting more guns I see and he always has a bad attitude
I was thinking of getting a lawyer I am just not sure how to go about it
sneakerd
08-07-2011, 20:43
I'd never go there again regardless.
Lawyer up. Been there before. Now I won't let LEO's into my house without a warrant. Nor will I answer questions unless arrested.
I would never shop at BIG R again. There are other stores that have the same things as BIG R. Probably at better prices too.
Come 'on. That's insane. I would think that if as you say it was a matter of them coming to the house because you bought too many guns- it would be the BATF, not the local PD. Not buying it. There has to be something else going on.I really dont give a rats ass what you are buying, I have said exactly what happened, and I get a little upset when some one says some thing like that. I dont think I got on here to lie to all these good people and give a bulcrap story
I really dont give a rats ass what you are buying, I have said exactly what happened, and I get a little upset when some one says some thing like that. I dont think I got on here to lie to all these good people and give a bulcrap story
I too have a hard time buying much of what you've said even before you started this thread. Did you get cards, names? Badge #'s? Give Dudley a shout and let us know how this unfolds.
I hope you didn't let them. I'm not sure what I would but consulting a lawyer would be one of them. I would be calling dudley at Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and ask what you should do. I have his email if you don't. Or a phone number is on their web site.
What kind of police officers? I did and I am kicking myself for doing it. They told me that it is not a big deal and that they were just concerned about the amount of guns we own. They told me that they were very impressed with the collection and also very impressed with the safes and how I have my ammo locked away from the guns, and that every gun is locked in a safe. The only thing I can think of is that they were seeing if we were buying them and selling them to people who are not legal. I am not sure why they came here but they had no right and I would like to know what I can do about it and who is a good person to call, thanks
Buying or owning "too many guns" is not a crime. I would have politely told them to pound sand and come back with a warrant and that they should direct any and all questions to your attorney. I might have gotten their names and badge numbers and made a call to their supervisor as well. I must agree with others that the story sounds very "fishy" to me. (Not saying you are making it up). With all the news stories about people impersonating cops nowadays it almost sounds like more of a high-tech way to case your place for a future robbery. Did you call the Greeley PD to verify they actually sent officers to your residence?
I too have a hard time buying much of what you've said even before you started this thread. Did you get cards, names? Badge #'s? Give Dudley a shout and let us know how this unfolds. I dont see why you guys have such a hard time buying what I just said. Why would I get on here and make up such a story, I was mainly wanting to know if it has happened to any one else, and now I am being called a liar basicly, thats not cool.
and now I am being called a liar basicly, thats not cool.
I didn't say anything about you making up a story in my post. I just questioned the "fishiness" of the whole chain of events and possibly the fact of these people actually being law enforcement personnel.
I didn't say anything about you making up a story in my post. I just questioned the "fishiness" of the whole chain of events and possibly the fact of these people actually being law enforcement personnel.They are deffinetly local law enforcement I have a cop that lives down the street from me, and they knew each other. I do have business cards from them, like I said the local ffl gives my wife a hard time when she goes in to pick up a gun, I have to block my phone number when I am calling for them to even answer my calls
blacklabel
08-07-2011, 21:22
I am pretty sure I know how, there is a company here in greeley big R of greeley is the only place we have our guns sent from gunbroker, there is a guy there that makes a comment everytime we go in, like oh you are getting more guns I see and he always has a bad attitude
Start doing transfers through Gilcrest Farm Supply. Very cool people with cheap transfer fees. They do a ton of transfers.
Start doing transfers through Gilcrest Farm Supply. Very cool people with cheap transfer fees. They do a ton of transfers. Whats the cost there I was paying 30 bucks at big R
BPTactical
08-07-2011, 21:24
No warrant, no way.....
You sure they were legit LEO?
With the rash of impersonators lately I would be very very aware of your surroundings and whom is near. No warrant or balking at getting one would be a red flag to me.
You screwed the pooch allowing them in without a warrant so now you are in a defensive position.
You will probably have a hard time proving your rights were violated as you willingly allowed them in the house, the bedroom and to nose around in your safe.
Get ahold of Dudley and if you are a GOA, NRA or SAF member be contacting them. The more resources you have the better.
Document everything ASAP while it is still fresh and contact a lawyer in the AM.
I think I would also be inquiring with the Chief of Police how this behavior/inquiry is appropriate.
blacklabel
08-07-2011, 21:30
Whats the cost there I was paying 30 bucks at big R
$15. Free coffee if the NCIS check takes a while. They definitely don't come off as the type of people that care about what you're transferring so long as you pass the NCIS check.
SA Friday
08-07-2011, 21:30
It's highly plausible the local PD would Arrive at your door instead of the ATF. It's more realistic than the ATF driving up there from the Denver office to determine if you are doing straw purchases. Both the Joint Terrorist Task Force and the Safe Streets task force are ran by the FBI, have ATF Agents assigned to them, have multiple other local PD officers and sheriff officers assigned to them, and they would shell this out to the local PD rep to call their agency and do a request for assistance. Then the send a patrol car to the home and make contact.
As far as I can tell from the info posted, neither the OPer nor the cops have done anything illegal or shady. I wouldn't expect the average person to know how to handle being approached like this at their home either. Cops get training on the law, how to stay within the law, and how to manipulate a situation to get consent.
What concerns me the most out of this scenario is just how the info on your gun purchases became an issue in the first place. There are a few ways it could have happened, and a couple of them are concerning. But, I do suspect which ever task force got involved, they didn't put a lot of credence to the possibility you were breaking the law. They would have handled it differently if they did. I would write this one off to a learning experience and save your money for a lawyer at this time.
What to take away from this is cops don't get in your house without a warrant or logical explanation while discussing the matter OUTSIDE YOUR CLOSED DOOR. I can think of a few reasons I might give consent, so I won't say to never give consent, but you should be very hard pressed to open the door and let them in after stepping out and shutting the door to discuss the matter with them. If they act offended by this, well, too bad (and they are playing you to get in if they act all butt-hurt). Consent can be revoked at any time. When they said why they were there, you can tell them they are off base, you haven't committed any crimes, they are on a fishing expedition, and to leave. Just be polite. That never hurts. If they do see evidence of a crime while in though, they aren't leaving. So, hide the big bag of cocaine that's on the counter (just kidding).
A similar incident happened to me about 5 years ago. Except they didn't leave without my firearms. I made a big mistake not asking for a warrant, or calling a lawyer right away. I did get my property back after 3 years though.
All you people saying the OP is full of it need to back off and offer him some advise. It does happen, and it will keep happening until we know our rights as gun owners.
I would go to the PD and ask why the police were dispatched. I believe it is your right.
No warrant, no way.....
You sure they were legit LEO?
With the rash of impersonators lately I would be very very aware of your surroundings and whom is near. No warrant or balking at getting one would be a red flag to me.
You screwed the pooch allowing them in without a warrant so now you are in a defensive position.
You will probably have a hard time proving your rights were violated as you willingly allowed them in the house, the bedroom and to nose around in your safe.
Get ahold of Dudley and if you are a GOA, NRA or SAF member be contacting them. The more resources you have the better.
Document everything ASAP while it is still fresh and contact a lawyer in the AM.
I think I would also be inquiring with the Chief of Police how this behavior/inquiry is appropriate. They were deffinetly local leo's they were friends of the cop down the street, they basicly told me I had to let them see inside my safe in a nice way. I did because I have nothing to hide but now I am worried that this might be a way of trying to take them away like they did with assult rifles in california, What would be the best thing to do if they come back?
blacklabel
08-07-2011, 21:34
Nothin' to hide or not, I don't talk to cops unless absolutely necessary.
6wXkI4t7nuc
Bailey Guns
08-07-2011, 21:37
What would be the best thing to do if they come back?
I think that's been answered several times already.
Meet them at the door. Step outside and close the door. Ask if they have a warrant. If so, cooperate. If not, tell them they'll need to get one and, short of that, refer them to your attorney (it might be a good idea to do some research on this aspect now).
Be polite and respectful but aware of your rights.
OneGuy67
08-07-2011, 21:38
My office has received reports from ffl holders about 'suspicious' people who buy a number of guns at one time and the ffl holder feels the buyer is buying 'straw purchase' guns. The buyers tend to buy a number of the same type of guns, many are the cheap small autos like Jennings or other similar types, but have also been Glocks. The buyers also tend to be not from the town in which the store is located as well. A lot of small things that would make the seller be suspicious of the person.
SA Friday
08-07-2011, 21:38
I think I would also be inquiring with the Chief of Police how this behavior/inquiry is appropriate.
Ok, I'll amend my previous post. That might not be a bad idea to work through a lawyer. As I said, my concern is what the catalyst was to start this whole thing.
Serious question here; you aren't Arabic or have an Arabic name do you? someone might have gotten overzealous.
Buying half a dozen pistols of the same model can set off bells too like OneGuy said too.
Hey sorry if I came off like a dick I felt like I was being accused of being a liar
Ok, I'll amend my previous post. That might not be a bad idea to work through a lawyer. As I said, my concern is what the catalyst was to start this whole thing.
Serious question here; you aren't Arabic or have an Arabic name do you? someone might have gotten overzealous.
Buying half a dozen pistols of the same model can set off bells too like OneGuy said too.No I am of Irish decent.
Zundfolge
08-07-2011, 21:49
My office has received reports from ffl holders about 'suspicious' people who buy a number of guns at one time and the ffl holder feels the buyer is buying 'straw purchase' guns.
If the FFL holder suspects a buyer and still sells to them anyway, said FFL could be asking for some trouble from the ATF. Their instructions are to refuse the sale if you think something is hinky, not complete the sale and then call the local PD.
As for the OP, it looks like someone here has given you a good line on a better FFL to use, I'd call the manager at the Big R and tell him that 1) you will never spend another dime in his store, 2) you will tell everyone you know not to do any form of business with them and 3) you might tell him you question the legitimacy of this particular employees parentage and that until he rids himself of said bastard he's likely going to lose many more customers.
It's highly plausible the local PD would Arrive at your door instead of the ATF. It's more realistic than the ATF driving up there from the Denver office to determine if you are doing straw purchases. Both the Joint Terrorist Task Force and the Safe Streets task force are ran by the FBI, have ATF Agents assigned to them, have multiple other local PD officers and sheriff officers assigned to them, and they would shell this out to the local PD rep to call their agency and do a request for assistance. Then the send a patrol car to the home and make contact.
As far as I can tell from the info posted, neither the OPer nor the cops have done anything illegal or shady. I wouldn't expect the average person to know how to handle being approached like this at their home either. Cops get training on the law, how to stay within the law, and how to manipulate a situation to get consent.
What concerns me the most out of this scenario is just how the info on your gun purchases became an issue in the first place. There are a few ways it could have happened, and a couple of them are concerning. But, I do suspect which ever task force got involved, they didn't put a lot of credence to the possibility you were breaking the law. They would have handled it differently if they did. I would write this one off to a learning experience and save your money for a lawyer at this time.
What to take away from this is cops don't get in your house without a warrant or logical explanation while discussing the matter OUTSIDE YOUR CLOSED DOOR. I can think of a few reasons I might give consent, so I won't say to never give consent, but you should be very hard pressed to open the door and let them in after stepping out and shutting the door to discuss the matter with them. If they act offended by this, well, too bad (and they are playing you to get in if they act all butt-hurt). Consent can be revoked at any time. When they said why they were there, you can tell them they are off base, you haven't committed any crimes, they are on a fishing expedition, and to leave. Just be polite. That never hurts. If they do see evidence of a crime while in though, they aren't leaving. So, hide the big bag of cocaine that's on the counter (just kidding). I am aware of that I did not even have to talk to them do to the fact that I was not breaking any laws, but I chose to and I now know that I should not have, I was going to be a police officer at one time. I am concerned about how and why they got our info, that is what i want to know.
SA Friday
08-07-2011, 22:01
No I am of Irish decent.
Fuckin IRA... [LOL]
SA Friday
08-07-2011, 22:04
If the FFL holder suspects a buyer and still sells to them anyway, said FFL could be asking for some trouble from the ATF. Their instructions are to refuse the sale if you think something is hinky, not complete the sale and then call the local PD.
As for the OP, it looks like someone here has given you a good line on a better FFL to use, I'd call the manager at the Big R and tell him that 1) you will never spend another dime in his store, 2) you will tell everyone you know not to do any form of business with them and 3) you might tell him you question the legitimacy of this particular employees parentage and that until he rids himself of said bastard he's likely going to lose many more customers.
Whoa dude, whoa. Better make sure that's what happened in the first place before tossin the gas tank and torch through the window. I can think of more than one other scenario as to how this got kicked off.
theskalickys
08-07-2011, 22:37
I am pretty sure I know how, there is a company here in greeley big R of greeley is the only place we have our guns sent from gunbroker, there is a guy there that makes a comment everytime we go in, like oh you are getting more guns I see and he always has a bad attitude
Ok so my Question is:
How many guns do you buy? Maybe I shop around for guns at different places too much. This concerns me.. but depending on the amount of guns you bought and possibly the type of guns you bought.. it might be something that a gun shop needs to report.
SideShow Bob
08-07-2011, 22:44
This should defiinatly be in the General discussion section. I almost missed it down here in the handguns section.
It is a good topic with some information for all of us.
Thanks for posting Atrain1.
Perhaps the dick at Big R was bent because you're buying a lot of guns online and shipping them to their store for transferring, and not buying from them? Maybe he thinks you're single-handedly supplying the Mexican cartels? Maybe he's just an antisocial asshole too. I second the motion to contact the manager and tell them to pound sand, and why.
But if the cops were nice about it, it kinda sounds to me they were just following up on a call about your "suspicious activity", and merely wanted to verify that you really did have as many firearms as the tipster said. If you didn't have them, then it might have gotten a little more intense? If someone said "so & so has bought X number of guns in the last Y months" and you couldn't produce them, that would look kinda bad.
If the FFL holder suspects a buyer and still sells to them anyway, said FFL could be asking for some trouble from the ATF. Their instructions are to refuse the sale if you think something is hinky, not complete the sale and then call the local PD.
As for the OP, it looks like someone here has given you a good line on a better FFL to use, I'd call the manager at the Big R and tell him that 1) you will never spend another dime in his store, 2) you will tell everyone you know not to do any form of business with them and 3) you might tell him you question the legitimacy of this particular employees parentage and that until he rids himself of said bastard he's likely going to lose many more customers. That is exactly what I was going to do, but my brother told me it is not worth my time and just dont buy there anymore. I want to call and tell them exactly why I am not doing business with them anymore, and when I get a chance I will put up a post on Big R of greeley. Thanks for the advice guys.
That is exactly what I was going to do, but my brother told me it is not worth my time and just dont buy there anymore. I want to call and tell them exactly why I am not doing business with them anymore, and when I get a chance I will put up a post on Big R of greeley. Thanks for the advice guys.
Sorry, but it IS worth your time, IMO. Whether the clerk dimed you in or not, if he's been rude to you and your wife you need to dime HIM in about it. Ain't none of his business WTF you're buying.
100% worth your time.
stevelkinevil
08-08-2011, 01:35
Could this have something to do with the new ATF thing requiring a dealer to notify them any time someone purchases 3 or more firearms at a time? I thought I read that this was only in states bordering Mexico though.
Some studying of The Bill of Rights is in order -
FOURTH AMENDMENT [U.S. Constitution]
'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'
Sorry, but it IS worth your time, IMO. Whether the clerk dimed you in or not, if he's been rude to you and your wife you need to dime HIM in about it. Ain't none of his business WTF you're buying. I agree
No I am of Irish decent.
{bad accent}Sooo, laddieboy...yer an IRA type, are ya? {/bad accent}[LOL]
Your dealer that is processing the transfers probably was miffed because you aren't buying from him, only doing (numerous) transfers. So he convinces himself that you're doing straw purchases/illegal sales (without an FFL), and rings up the BATFE, who in turn contacts local LE. They come out and convince your that you HAVE to let them in (Silly Fourth Amendment, pshaw!). I agree that a conversation with a lawyer should be in your very near future.
UberTong
08-08-2011, 11:36
Is the revolution ready yet? No? Ok just checking. [UZI]
Great-Kazoo
08-08-2011, 14:58
Could this have something to do with the new ATF thing requiring a dealer to notify them any time someone purchases 3 or more firearms at a time? I thought I read that this was only in states bordering Mexico though.
multiple handgun purchases and or more than X per 2 week period? requires notification to the local LE / sheriff. they have a form that gets filled out and so on.
Without a warrant you were foolish (for lack of a kinder word) to allow any le dept to peek at anything in your house. When they came to my door i talked with them outside. I was asked if there was anything i was hiding and told them unless there is a warrant NO Entry is permitted.
Just following SOP for my domain. YMMV
multiple handgun purchases and or more than X per 2 week period? requires notification to the local LE / sheriff. they have a form that gets filled out and so on.
Without a warrant you were foolish (for lack of a kinder word) to allow any le dept to peek at anything in your house. When they came to my door i talked with them outside. I was asked if there was anything i was hiding and told them unless there is a warrant NO Entry is permitted.
Just following SOP for my domain. YMMV I agree it was down right stupid for me to let them in, especialy with me knowing that I did not have to. It did not start to bother me until I started to think about what had happened. Now I dont know if I should contact a lawyer do to the fact that I let them in my house. Does any one have any idea what I should do since I let them in, should I call the store and talk to the manager, should I talk to the police chief, or any other idea would be great, should I just look at it as a lesson learned, And if they ever come back do not let them in without a warrant.
UberTong
08-08-2011, 16:11
Personally I couldn't live in my own house in peace without finding out what happened, why and some sort of resolution. I would call a lawyer to inquire what action you can take first. Then the store, then the police. Just my .02, sorry that happened to you man. That makes me feel like big bro is watching.
Great-Kazoo
08-08-2011, 17:04
I agree it was down right stupid for me to let them in, especialy with me knowing that I did not have to. It did not start to bother me until I started to think about what had happened. Now I dont know if I should contact a lawyer do to the fact that I let them in my house. Does any one have any idea what I should do since I let them in, should I call the store and talk to the manager, should I talk to the police chief, or any other idea would be great, should I just look at it as a lesson learned, And if they ever come back do not let them in without a warrant.
You Consented to Entry and Search / Inspection of your personal items, you do not have any legal recourse. By consenting to search you waived any rights you had away, that is basic law 101.
Had they entered w/out permission and then trashed the place out with you having documentation (pictures) witness statements legal recourse could have been demanded.
HBARleatherneck
08-08-2011, 17:20
delete
In the last few months, I've bought and sold several pistols through local gun shops. At one shop, I was told that if I purchased more than one handgun a week, I would need to fill out a special BATF form. Since it was 8 days since the previous purchase it wasn't an issue at the time and I bought the gun with only the normal background check.
At another shop, where I was planning on buying a used pistol after having purchased a new one a few days prior, I asked about the BATF paper work and they knew nothing about any special form. I passed on the purchase so it was a moot point but I do wonder what would've happened if I had made the purchase with only the regular background check.
If there is a BATF "frequent buyer form" and somehow it was overlooked in all of your purchases/transfers the local law enforcement officials might have been notified by someone in the background check office of your "suspicious" activity. By dealing politely and openly with the police you showed them that you are a law abiding and legal gun owner and probably built up some good will with them as well. Now, if they are contacted again in the future about your suspicious activity I bet they might just give you a call or just not worry about it at all.
It would be nice to know what the real details are behind what happened but I doubt it is anything sinister or something that requires a lawyer but just some research online or a few phone calls to some government offices.
OneGuy67
08-08-2011, 17:22
Look at it this way: what's a lawyer going to do for you other than take your money? There was no violation of your rights, you voluntarily let them in. They asked to look at your guns and you showed them. You refused to allow them to photograph and they abided by your wishes. It was a consentual contact between you and them.
You can contact the Chief of Police and ask him why they came. After he gets briefed on the situation, he will tell you what he knows.
It comes down to, what are you looking for to happen out of this, with or without a lawyer?
I am going with oneguy on this. If you are not doing anything illegal, there is no need for a lawyer unless the popo try to do something else. Like oneguy said, what exactly are you giong to do with one right now anyway? Nothing. Why? Because right now, there isn't anything to do. You don't need to freak out till there is actually something to freak out about. Actually Train, what you did to begin with might have been the best thing to do. You complied and showed them what they wanted. You acted like you didn't have anything to hide which from what I can read, you don't. If you would have been all secretative and said no and what not, that would have made them wonder. So at this point, what are they going to do? NOTHING. Because they don't have a reason to do anything as nothing illegal is going on. Don't fret.
Of course if you are a target of some dumb ass conspiracy thing, sue the shit out of them when they act on it. Lawyer or not, they're still going to do whatever it is they have planned if something is going down (which is more than likely not going to happen, just worse case scenario) so just save your money.
BushMasterBoy
08-08-2011, 17:48
I'd talk to a lawyer anyway. They may be building a case against you and if you make any mistakes, they can use it against you. If they come back, at least you have a lawyer you can call. You probably won't have to pay for the first consultation, and at least you will have a lawyer. It is hard to shop for a lawyer in jail. Sounds like you probably won't hear from them again and remember this forum is owned by some police officers and subject to monitoring. They are required by law to report any violations of state and federal law they see on this forum.
Never trust anybody from the government!
I don't get it, out with all the conspiracy bull shit, what case would they have against him? We are talking legally here. If train is doing illegal stuff with his guns, then well frankly his ass needs to go to jail. If he isn't doing anything illegal, what does he need to fear? I think someone should actually take the time to explain before wasting his time here, like I said, no conspiracy shit here. He hasn't done anything illegal so why does he need to do anything? Seriously, all the conspiracy theorists need to say what the cops can actually do legally here because untill they have evidence, they can't do shit.
KevDen2005
08-08-2011, 18:36
Buying or owning "too many guns" is not a crime. I would have politely told them to pound sand and come back with a warrant and that they should direct any and all questions to your attorney. I might have gotten their names and badge numbers and made a call to their supervisor as well. I must agree with others that the story sounds very "fishy" to me. (Not saying you are making it up). With all the news stories about people impersonating cops nowadays it almost sounds like more of a high-tech way to case your place for a future robbery. Did you call the Greeley PD to verify they actually sent officers to your residence?
Might be late to this thread but am hoping you saw proper ID and got cards. Call the PD to verify that officers actually came to your house and not a scam. Who knows what this guy at Big R has been blabbing to violating your privacy to both government and citizens.
As a police officer I have never even heard of something like this and have to say I work in an area where lots of gun owners live. I would definitely speak to an attorney and find out what else might be going on.
HBARleatherneck
08-08-2011, 18:37
delete
clearly the deed is done.
but the 4th ammendment to the constitution provides for protection from unreasonable searches.
i would have politely said "no you cant look at my firearm collection witout a warrant"
if they came back with one, well then they get a view of the goods.
but if you voluntarily let them look, i dont see any recourse you would have.
and without looking at serial numbers i dont see why they wanted to look. I mean. what officer says to the other, " yep, just like the schmo at big r said, this guy has a lot of guns" what did that accomplish? maybe you have dozens more than you bought at big r. so what?
so was it greeley pd? and did they look at serial numbers? and name names as to who the schmuck at big r is. i want to make sure i dont interact with that person.No they just wanted to take pictures and I said No to that bs, and no they would not say, and yes it was GPD that showed up
trlcavscout
08-08-2011, 20:03
First if you find out it was big r let us know I know people that will stop shopping there. Second greeley is funny, they have a joint task force building but use the local cops for dirty work. With all the gangs/problems they have they probably got nervous? But ya no warrant no lookie!
Zundfolge
08-08-2011, 20:06
I agree it was down right stupid for me to let them in...
Don't beat yourself up about it. Just chalk it up as a lesson learned.
Thankfully things didn't go sideways (and in all honesty the percentage probability of them going bad are slim since you're not up to anything).
colocowboy01
08-08-2011, 20:20
Look at it this way: what's a lawyer going to do for you other than take your money? There was no violation of your rights, you voluntarily let them in. They asked to look at your guns and you showed them. You refused to allow them to photograph and they abided by your wishes. It was a consentual contact between you and them.
You can contact the Chief of Police and ask him why they came. After he gets briefed on the situation, he will tell you what he knows.
It comes down to, what are you looking for to happen out of this, with or without a lawyer?
While I agree with the statement that Atrain1 consented so he waived his rights I will say "Don't Ever Consent to a home search if there is not a warrant".
If you have nothing to hide, they have nothing to look at. Why show them nothing?
I am very interested to see how this plays out.
I don't get it, out with all the conspiracy bull shit, what case would they have against him? We are talking legally here. If train is doing illegal stuff with his guns, then well frankly his ass needs to go to jail. If he isn't doing anything illegal, what does he need to fear? I think someone should actually take the time to explain before wasting his time here, like I said, no conspiracy shit here. He hasn't done anything illegal so why does he need to do anything? Seriously, all the conspiracy theorists need to say what the cops can actually do legally here because untill they have evidence, they can't do shit.
because last I heard this is still the United States of America,
and he did nothing wrong.
and it's none of their fucking business what he owns
and because each time we "consent" to one of their "requests" a little piece of our our rights wash away
conspiracy theorists need to say what the cops can actually do legally here because untill they have evidence, they can't do shitI quoted this again because it deserves it's own answer. . . you may have missed some news reports, so I'll do a quick recap...they could "no knock" his home and shoot his dog, they could "no knock" his home and kill him in front of his wife and kids, they "could" find something else while walking through his home, they "could" tase him because he wasn't answering questions, they "could" have beat him while he was cuffed until he died, they"could" have "found" something in his house they dont like, they "could" beat his daughter for taking video, they "could" do whatever the fuck they wanted, because there are no consequences
I'm not, as you said, a "Conspiracy Theorist", but I'll tell you that law enforcement is not your friend. The days of community policing, and protecting and serving are over. Today's police (on the whole-there are exceptions) are military forces. They dress, look, talk, and act as such....they call us "civilians" not "citizens". You are no longer innocent until proven guilty- the new view is "you're guilty of something, I'll find what it is"
The police are not your friends, DO NOT talk to the police without a warrant and without a lawyer
I'm curious as to how many purchases in a how short a period of time. . .
claimbuster
08-08-2011, 23:51
Perhaps a bit off the topic; however, I don't do all of my transfers or purchases at any one vendor. The last thing I want is some loose lipped dumb a$$ store clerk blabbering about me in a local bar, telling everyone about this guy that comes into the store and buys all these guns. He has my name, my address and a pretty good idea what is in my safe.
[Rant1]
If you have nothing to hide, they have nothing to look at. Why show them nothing?
Ever hear about 4a? Or would you be cool with LE performing a weekly inventory on your stuff?
Ever hear about 4a? Or would you be cool with LE performing a weekly inventory on your stuff?
He's saying that since you have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to look at, so you wouldn't show them anything. It's a good line.
Guess I was a little fixated on "why show them nothing".
Isn't it passed your bedtime young man?
colocowboy01
08-09-2011, 05:08
Ever hear about 4a? Or would you be cool with LE performing a weekly inventory on your stuff?
What is 4a? In a Jackboot's perfect world LE would get to perform a weekly inventory, so No I would not be cool with that. I hate tyranny. I hope that any attempt to implement a plan like that would result in a strong resistance by the people.
If the police are so fixated on seeing how much and what kind of "nothing" I have they can do it the right way and go get a warrant. They still will find nothing.
"If you have nothing to hide, they have nothing to look at. Why show them nothing, FOR FREE?" Fixed for Graves.[ROFL1]
Heh, actually as I read your post I had been busted thumbing away on my phone here for the um-teenth time last night while 'working' so I kind of skimmed over your post before replying . . . Theeere's that and thesunwasinmyeyes.
I have a big question relating to this... Doesn't the OP have the right to face his accuser? I mean seriously, if someone is reporting him to the PD for "suspected illegal or straw purchases," as I think is the case, doesn't he have a legal right to know who is accusing him of a crime and face them? I would find out who reported this, who wasted mine and the cop's precious time, and then I'd file a suit for defamation of character just to teach the prick a lesson. That's what I'd do, but then again I've never had the cops come to my door (yet) and pray that they don't find the big wall safe behind me Irish flag that contains missiles and full auto AKs so I can fight the evil Brit occupiers! (JK) ;)
I have a big question relating to this... Doesn't the OP have the right to face his accuser?
In a way, he is. The accuser, in this case, is the police - acting on behalf of the possible whistle blower. I think my very first questions on the doorstep would be "what is this about" and "why do you need to see my guns". Allowing someone in my door, police or otherwise, without me knowing exactly their intent and who they are is on my short list of things not to do. I understand that people automatically want to cooperate because they have done nothing wrong and want to be a good citizen, but far too many things can happen as a result. What if they are just making sure you are not a straw buyer, walk in your house and see those personal items that define us as people and decide, based on seeing those things, that you are suspicious - maybe because you have a rebel flag pin hanging on a jacket somewhere. Now the investigation really begins and they would testify that it was caused by the stars and bars they saw.
Too many things can go wrong, even when it appears innocent enough. Without doubt I would be making a lot of phone calls to find out what prompted this behavior and who started the ball rolling in my direction and if it didn't come freely then my lawyer would be demanding it for me. No matter what, the OP should get every possible fact and if that includes paying an attorney then so be it, better safe and a little poorer than sorry and either in prison or paying hundreds of thousands to defend yourself.
In a way, he is. The accuser, in this case, is the police - acting on behalf of the possible whistle blower. I think my very first questions on the doorstep would be "what is this about" and "why do you need to see my guns". Allowing someone in my door, police or otherwise, without me knowing exactly their intent and who they are is on my short list of things not to do. I understand that people automatically want to cooperate because they have done nothing wrong and want to be a good citizen, but far too many things can happen as a result. What if they are just making sure you are not a straw buyer, walk in your house and see those personal items that define us as people and decide, based on seeing those things, that you are suspicious - maybe because you have a rebel flag pin hanging on a jacket somewhere. Now the investigation really begins and they would testify that it was caused by the stars and bars they saw.
Too many things can go wrong, even when it appears innocent enough. Without doubt I would be making a lot of phone calls to find out what prompted this behavior and who started the ball rolling in my direction and if it didn't come freely then my lawyer would be demanding it for me. No matter what, the OP should get every possible fact and if that includes paying an attorney then so be it, better safe and a little poorer than sorry and either in prison or paying hundreds of thousands to defend yourself.
Touche! But I was more thinking along the lines of how the sweet f*ck can someone get away with blowing the whistle. I'd be furious that someone ratted me out to the cops for something that is perfectly legal and justified by my 2A rights. I already think it's bullshit that my FFL has to fill out ATF paperwork if I buy 2 guns at once. So this would just push me over the edge. Good on Atrain for keeping his cool, and perhaps it wasn't smart to let them in, but that's already happened, so now it's focus on where to go from here... maybe nowhere, maybe they got the info they needed, saw he was law-abiding and fully cooperative, and they'll just leave it at that. Ultimately it's what he does from here and how things pan out. If lucky he won't hear another word about this instance.
OneGuy67
08-09-2011, 11:53
Some serious tin foil hats being made here.
Maybe I'm reading the OP's initial statements wrong, but it sounds like he got a knock on the door and when he opened the door, there were two uniformed officers standing there. They asked him if they could speak to him in private and that is where it isn't clear. Did the officers ask to step inside to speak to him or did he invite them inside to speak. Either way, it really doesn't matter. While inside, they told him the reason for their appearance at his door and they asked him if they could look. They didn't tell him he needed to show them, they didn't force the issue. They respected his rights. They were polite and cordial.
Now, everyone is concerned about 4th Amendment violations (there were none) and how everyone here would not invite them in and speak to the officers on the porch for some fear that they would see 'pins' on a jacket which would lead them to believe they have the grand master king pin of some weirdo group on their hands. You certainly have a right to continue the conversation (and that was what it was) with the officers wherever you wanted to have it; on your porch, in your living room over coffee, on the sidewalk if you are so suspicious of the police.
The officers were polite and cordial. They didn't treat him like a suspect, demand his ID, search him, place metal bracelets on him, detain his family in the living room, tear through anything, seize anything or DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN HAVE A CONVERSATION.
The officers were polite and cordial. They didn't treat him like a suspect, demand his ID, search him, place metal bracelets on him, detain his family in the living room, tear through anything, seize anything or DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN HAVE A CONVERSATION.
And ask to do a visual inventory of his weapons, and take pictures (clearly out of line, IMHO). While nothing nefarious is probably going on, I gotta think he's now on their (mental) list of potential right wing gun nut whackos. You know the ones that the news say"...the fire occurred at 123 XYZ road, where police say the resident had numerous rifle and pistols, as well as thousands of rounds of ammunition. The cause of the fire is under investigation."
This is peculiar, but it might be understandable if you recently had 20 transfers through the same FFL for inexpensive zinc Saturday Night Specials and high capacity autoloading rifles like the SKS with detachable magazine. Some folks might think if you were buying a LOT of cheap guns favored by gangbangers that you might be reselling them to criminals for inflated prices or swapping them for illicit goods and services.
Now that the GPD has seen that you still have all those items in your collection they should be able to eliminate you as a potential gunrunner. I think it is screwy that they wanted to take photographs though. Did they ask to write down serial numbers too?
OneGuy67
08-09-2011, 12:13
And ask to do a visual inventory of his weapons, and take pictures (clearly out of line, IMHO). While nothing nefarious is probably going on, I gotta think he's now on their (mental) list of potential right wing gun nut whackos. You know the ones that the news say"...the fire occurred at 123 XYZ road, where police say the resident had numerous rifle and pistols, as well as thousands of rounds of ammunition. The cause of the fire is under investigation."
From what I read, they asked to look inside and he agreed to it. They didn't inventory it (unless they mentally counted the number of guns he may have had in there. It would be difficult to do that with my own gun safes as there are boxes containing items inside them, etc.) They did ask to photograph and he declined it and they did as he wished.
It just doesn't seem like there is anything here other than the officers saying to each other, "Wow! He's got a lot of guns!" The OP even mentioned they commented on how organized his safes were and how neat he kept things.
BPTactical
08-09-2011, 12:15
In a way, he is. The accuser, in this case, is the police - acting on behalf of the possible whistle blower. I think my very first questions on the doorstep would be "what is this about" and "why do you need to see my guns". Allowing someone in my door, police or otherwise, without me knowing exactly their intent and who they are is on my short list of things not to do. I understand that people automatically want to cooperate because they have done nothing wrong and want to be a good citizen, but far too many things can happen as a result. What if they are just making sure you are not a straw buyer, walk in your house and see those personal items that define us as people and decide, based on seeing those things, that you are suspicious - maybe because you have a rebel flag pin hanging on a jacket somewhere. Now the investigation really begins and they would testify that it was caused by the stars and bars they saw.
Too many things can go wrong, even when it appears innocent enough. Without doubt I would be making a lot of phone calls to find out what prompted this behavior and who started the ball rolling in my direction and if it didn't come freely then my lawyer would be demanding it for me. No matter what, the OP should get every possible fact and if that includes paying an attorney then so be it, better safe and a little poorer than sorry and either in prison or paying hundreds of thousands to defend yourself.
Wisedom again prevails
Yeah, I'm not just a paranoid, I have a whole collection of noids..[LOL]
Great-Kazoo
08-09-2011, 12:19
how the sweet f*ck can someone get away with blowing the whistle. I'd be furious that someone ratted me out to the cops
just cut and pasting your quote.
Ever here of Dime Droppers / Crime Stoppers???
What's the line they use,
"If you have information call 1-800-5555 and you can remain anonymous. Know or hear of a crime being committed call 1-800-5555. There may be a reward."
Take a look at the utility trucks next time you pass one. Notice the Eye & Ear graphics? They are the eyes and ears of LE dept's keeping an eye out for "questionable activities" My question being to them, what constitutes "Questionable"?
While this advertisement has it's place for the criminal element, Using it and other Tip hotlines to bring a potential hoard of nervous rookies to your door is not what the original intent was. Same as the RICO act. It went from being a "necessary tool" of the feds to 'crack down on the outlaw motorcycle gangs" has morphed in to an over zealous machine that raids card games going on in the back of the VFW hall.
OneGuy67
08-09-2011, 12:41
Yeah, I'm not just a paranoid, I have a whole collection of noids..[LOL]
[ROFL1] Ha ha!
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?40,file=38015,filename=noid.jpg
So were should I start, my wife wants to just leave it alone, but I am with every one else I want to know why they felt the need to call the cops, and it really gets me that those guys got to look at everything, I know it is my fault but I still feel violated.
OneGuy67
08-09-2011, 13:43
So were should I start, my wife wants to just leave it alone, but I am with every one else I want to know why they felt the need to call the cops, and it really gets me that those guys got to look at everything, I know it is my fault but I still feel violated.
Since you know the officers names who came to your residence, you could call one of them and ask.
UberTong
08-09-2011, 13:59
The more time that passes by, you are kind of losing your case...call them or stop talking about it.
mcantar18c
08-09-2011, 14:12
call them and stop talking about it.
Fixed.
UberTong
08-09-2011, 14:30
Fixed.
lol [Beer]
SA Friday
08-09-2011, 14:43
Since you know the officers names who came to your residence, you could call one of them and ask.
Im not very up to date on the different reporting procedures of the different agencies, but they probably assigned some sort of case number to your house visit. I know my agency did this in request for assistance requests from other agencies and for simple allegations that we put to bed fairly easy. There is probably some sort of report that you can request a copy of. Call one of the officers and ask. Getting a copy of a police report, and having a civil conversation with an officer are pretty routine things.
OneGuy67
08-09-2011, 15:09
Im not very up to date on the different reporting procedures of the different agencies, but they probably assigned some sort of case number to your house visit. I know my agency did this in request for assistance requests from other agencies and for simple allegations that we put to bed fairly easy. There is probably some sort of report that you can request a copy of. Call one of the officers and ask. Getting a copy of a police report, and having a civil conversation with an officer are pretty routine things.
It may have not gone to that level and instead, may only be a CAD noted call. Reports generally are done regarding a criminal act, not the call received from the reporting party. It could have easily and most likely been dispo'ed as a no crime incident and no report generated.
So were should I start, my wife wants to just leave it alone, but I am with every one else I want to know why they felt the need to call the cops, and it really gets me that those guys got to look at everything, I know it is my fault but I still feel violated.
I would feel compelled to leave the business alone. Based on your signature, you should as well...just don't use them anymore.
All I would do at this point is find out why the police came to your door; you should be able to find out from the Police Department...get a copy of the report.
It sounds as though they were investigating you for possible straw purchasing. The desire for pictures were for putting them in their report, which probably says that you are buying for your collection. I don't see anything sinister here.
request a copy of their report.
and never let them past your doorjamb again without a warrant.
sneakerd
08-09-2011, 21:35
The end please. I think we've wrung this one to death. Imho.
I would not go back to the place you have been doing all your transfers, and I would also not bring it up with them either. just disappear from their radar.
as to the cops, you might make a small inquisition to the dept. about it, but do not make a big stink about it. hopefully the only thing that came out of the whole deal is 2 officers knowing you have lots of guns, hopefully they are both gun guys and respect your rights. they were doing their job, you failed at doing yours in this instance.
If something more comes of it and the ATF were to get involved, you might put together for yourself a list of all the guns you have bought and sold, take pictures of all of them, the serial number and condition and make a electronic and hard copy list of all firearms, condition, price paid, location bought from etc. Just enough info to cover yourself if they try to say you are selling illegally, acting like a dealer for a profit, trafficking or other related charges.
stevelkinevil
08-09-2011, 23:43
It is frankly just sad that we have to feel this way about this subject in this country. Sad state of affairs indeed.
I would not go back to the place you have been doing all your transfers, and I would also not bring it up with them either. just disappear from their radar.
as to the cops, you might make a small inquisition to the dept. about it, but do not make a big stink about it. hopefully the only thing that came out of the whole deal is 2 officers knowing you have lots of guns, hopefully they are both gun guys and respect your rights. they were doing their job, you failed at doing yours in this instance.
If something more comes of it and the ATF were to get involved, you might put together for yourself a list of all the guns you have bought and sold, take pictures of all of them, the serial number and condition and make a electronic and hard copy list of all firearms, condition, price paid, location bought from etc. Just enough info to cover yourself if they try to say you are selling illegally, acting like a dealer for a profit, trafficking or other related charges. I already have and electronic inventory of my guns with all serial numbers,and trust me I know i screwed up bad, I am going to go to that place I will have to look back but theguy said it was 15 bucks for a transfer. Also they said they were very impressed with the collection and my safes, and how I have the ammo locked away from the guns, so it sounds like they were gun guys the cops were cool about it.
colocowboy01
08-10-2011, 04:43
You might want to try using Bear Arms in Windsor for your transfers. They are great people to work with.
snichols28
08-12-2011, 11:42
They had me open all of my Safes and wanted to take pictures.
They HAD you open all of your safes... as in they MADE you or they showed up at your door and ASKED if they could talk and ASKED if they could look at your armory and you gave them permission to do so?
Without a search warrant they can't come over and un-invitingly come in your house to search for anything unless a crime was in progress and they were chasing you in to the house or concerned that you were destroying evidence (burning it, flushing down toilet, etc...)
If they showed up at your door and ASKED to talk and ASKED for permission to see your stuff and you WILLINGLY gave them permission then you are wasting your time with the legal talk. Just giving you some advice partner!
Asked to look in your safes...and you let them? What were you thinking? Common sense?
Sorry, but you should be nominated for a Darwin Award. You let it happen...and didn't do a thing to stop it. How about the word "no"? Sad as hell.
He already stated he had nothing to hide, figured whatever... no need to jump down his throat about it.
Tell them no on general principle. You don't have anything to hide and you DON'T have to let them in without a warrant.
I would have call 911 and asked for some real police to show up. Were these cops in uniform or suits like detectives?
jscwerve
08-12-2011, 16:45
Long video. A lot of information in it though. I would recommend everyone watch it.
6wXkI4t7nuc
Geology Rocks
08-13-2011, 11:20
Long video. A lot of information in it though. I would recommend everyone watch it.
6wXkI4t7nuc
welcome to post #29.
jscwerve
08-13-2011, 11:32
welcome to post #29.
oops, guess thats what i get for not reading every post.
6wXkI4t7nuc
Oh man you have to see this video I just heard about it. Everyone should watch it!
Who cares if its a dupe and he's just ripping off your post? And he looks like and asshole that should have read all the posts or at least skimmed over them looking for videos. He had the right instincts to share it.
[Beer]
In this case I think everyone should watch the video twice get quiz on it and have to sign off on it that they watched it. Everyone on this board should know this stuff if one day the police show up wanting us to show them our guns.
[Bang]
Tell them to get their own guns. I was never good at sharing.
Dnag it, I forgot about this until today-
http://www.target.com/Come-Back-Warrant-Doormat/dp/B00020O572/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&searchView=grid5&keywords=door%20mat&fromGsearch=true&sr=1-4&qid=1313294168&rh=&searchRank=target104545&id=Come%20Back%20Warrant%20Doormat&node=1038576%7C1287991011&searchSize=30&searchPage=2&searchNodeID=1038576%7C1287991011&searchBinNameList=subjectbin%2Cprice%2Ctarget_com_ primary_color-bin%2Ctarget_com_size-bin%2Ctarget_com_brand-bin&frombrowse=0
Nice doormat.
stevelkinevil
08-13-2011, 23:09
Dnag it, I forgot about this until today-
http://www.target.com/Come-Back-Warrant-Doormat/dp/B00020O572/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&searchView=grid5&keywords=door%20mat&fromGsearch=true&sr=1-4&qid=1313294168&rh=&searchRank=target104545&id=Come%20Back%20Warrant%20Doormat&node=1038576%7C1287991011&searchSize=30&searchPage=2&searchNodeID=1038576%7C1287991011&searchBinNameList=subjectbin%2Cprice%2Ctarget_com_ primary_color-bin%2Ctarget_com_size-bin%2Ctarget_com_brand-bin&frombrowse=0
Nice doormat.
HAHAHA thats bloody fantastic!
tactuppernut
08-16-2011, 21:32
I believe whether ATRAIN1 knows it or not, so long as there is nothing to hide, he did the right thing. I would've ascertained the validity of big brother calling through local P.D. before allowing them in though. I believe if he hadn't let them in, both mr. & mrs. ATRAIN1 would have seen dark colored, indistinct sedans everywhere, including front of residence, possibly for weeks, until enough "intel" was gathered for a judge to sign a warrant, at which time, all big brother pleasantries go out the window, carpets get trashed, things get broken, possibly even stolen or confiscated during raid. He had nothing to hide, cooperated upon initial contact, brownie points earned, case closed. Big brother goes on to fuck with somebody else. I do agree with MED, as the police report should reflect as to why an investigation was initiated, anonymous tipster (Big R asshole), or BATF. Could've even been the nosy old lady across the street watching firearms being removed from trunk nightly for that matter. Point is, nothing to hide, cooperate. Something to hide, don't cooperate, and they will return will your requested warrant and you will be violated more so than you currently feel, possibly even being detained for 72 hours without ever being charged with a crime. Probably wouldn't pass a background check in the future either, because of a"glitch". Big brother can be vengeful too, if you fuck with him too much. Keep a lookout for those sedans, seriously. Especially when picking up future transfers, they'll probably need to verify the next several stay in the safe as well before closure. I would probably consult counsel only for your own piece of mind. You only needed a travel size tube of KY for this, not the 1 gal. bucket found only in prison commissaries. Did ya at least get a reach-around? Don't answer that please.
Or they go away as requested and a judge never signs a warranty because there is no evidence of a crime being committed and the judge tells the police to stop wasting his time and harassing people by going on fishing trips. In the future they will not even bother because its so hard to harass people without a warrant. But if did get pinched on some trumped up charges higher a lawyer and have your day in court. After that sue the shit out the police department and collect a large sum of money that you can spend on more guns or give to random people on this board.
If you aren't doing anything bad you have nothing to fear by saying no. Its your right after all.
tactuppernut
08-17-2011, 17:10
While looking up state and local codes in regards to a different matter, I came across this on about.com's CO gun law page (which is pasted in):
Local governments are prohibited from maintaining a list or other record or database of persons who purchase or exchange firearm or leave them for repair or sale on consignment, and persons who transfer firearms unless they are federally licensed firearms dealers, or of the descriptions, including serial numbers, of such firearms.
I had 2 police officers come to my house cause me and my wife had purchased to many guns in the last couple of months... I really feel like my privacy has been seriosly violated...
...Yes I did cause the way it happened was they asked if we could go somewere quiet to talk, so we went into our room. Which happens to have all my gun safes, they asked if I would mind opening them up to see what is inside, and I did as I have nothing to hide, they asked if they could take pictures and I did not feel comfortable with that so I said no. I just want to know why they felt the need to come out to my house and see all my guns....
They were deffinetly local leo's they were friends of the cop down the street, they basicly told me I had to let them see inside my safe in a nice way. I did because I have nothing to hide but now I am worried that this might be a way of trying to take them away like they did with assult rifles in california, What would be the best thing to do if they come back?
...but I still feel violated...
By who? It sounds to me like someone generated a call for service for some reason. We still don't know who, or why.
You need to contact Greeley Police Department (not the chief) and speak with a patrol supervisor. Give him the date and names of the officers and ask to speak with him/her regarding the incident. It would be a good idea to try and articulate your concerns and ask who generated the complaint against you, and why. I would also ask if GPD came out on behalf of the BATFE.
...Like I said the local ffl gives my wife a hard time when she goes in to pick up a gun, I have to block my phone number when I am calling for them to even answer my calls...
Why would you continue to do business with a place like this?
My office has received reports from ffl holders about 'suspicious' people who buy a number of guns at one time and the ffl holder feels the buyer is buying 'straw purchase' guns. The buyers tend to buy a number of the same type of guns, many are the cheap small autos like Jennings or other similar types, but have also been Glocks. The buyers also tend to be not from the town in which the store is located as well. A lot of small things that would make the seller be suspicious of the person.
Agreed. It's the job of LE agencies to investigate crimes. It sounds like they investigated, determined there was no illegal activity, and did so respectfully. Your complaint should be a civil one against your FFL for bad business practices.
Some studying of The Bill of Rights is in order -
FOURTH AMENDMENT [U.S. Constitution]
'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'
I fail to see the relevance of 4A here. There was no unreasonable search or seizure.
You Consented to Entry and Search / Inspection of your personal items, you do not have any legal recourse. By consenting to search you waived any rights you had away, that is basic law 101.
Had they entered w/out permission and then trashed the place out with you having documentation (pictures) witness statements legal recourse could have been demanded.
I agree.
Look at it this way: what's a lawyer going to do for you other than take your money? There was no violation of your rights, you voluntarily let them in. They asked to look at your guns and you showed them. You refused to allow them to photograph and they abided by your wishes. It was a consentual contact between you and them.
You can contact the Chief of Police and ask him why they came. After he gets briefed on the situation, he will tell you what he knows.
It comes down to, what are you looking for to happen out of this, with or without a lawyer?
I wonder the same thing. What are you looking for to happen from all of this?
I quoted this again because it deserves it's own answer. . . you may have missed some news reports, so I'll do a quick recap...they could "no knock" his home and shoot his dog, they could "no knock" his home and kill him in front of his wife and kids, they "could" find something else while walking through his home, they "could" tase him because he wasn't answering questions, they "could" have beat him while he was cuffed until he died, they"could" have "found" something in his house they dont like, they "could" beat his daughter for taking video, they "could" do whatever the fuck they wanted, because there are no consequences
I'm not, as you said, a "Conspiracy Theorist", but I'll tell you that law enforcement is not your friend. The days of community policing, and protecting and serving are over. Today's police (on the whole-there are exceptions) are military forces. They dress, look, talk, and act as such....they call us "civilians" not "citizens". You are no longer innocent until proven guilty- the new view is "you're guilty of something, I'll find what it is"
The police are not your friends, DO NOT talk to the police without a warrant and without a lawyer
I would welcome the opportunity to prove you wrong. Feel free to PM me and I will assist you in setting up a ride along with your local police department. If you saw things from a police officer's POV, you may change your mind.
I'd like you to know your local police are in fact working to make YOUR life in YOUR city more safe, and enjoyable, for you and your family.
If you disagree, allow me an opportunity to prove you wrong.
Pepsi is on me during the ride-along. [Pepsi]
What is 4a? In a Jackboot's perfect world LE would get to perform a weekly inventory, so No I would not be cool with that. I hate tyranny. I hope that any attempt to implement a plan like that would result in a strong resistance by the people.
If the police are so fixated on seeing how much and what kind of "nothing" I have they can do it the right way and go get a warrant. They still will find nothing.
4a is the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
You would be surprised at how very little you actually know about "jackboots." [Beer]
Some serious tin foil hats being made here.
Maybe I'm reading the OP's initial statements wrong, but it sounds like he got a knock on the door and when he opened the door, there were two uniformed officers standing there. They asked him if they could speak to him in private and that is where it isn't clear. Did the officers ask to step inside to speak to him or did he invite them inside to speak. Either way, it really doesn't matter. While inside, they told him the reason for their appearance at his door and they asked him if they could look. They didn't tell him he needed to show them, they didn't force the issue. They respected his rights. They were polite and cordial.
Now, everyone is concerned about 4th Amendment violations (there were none) and how everyone here would not invite them in and speak to the officers on the porch for some fear that they would see 'pins' on a jacket which would lead them to believe they have the grand master king pin of some weirdo group on their hands. You certainly have a right to continue the conversation (and that was what it was) with the officers wherever you wanted to have it; on your porch, in your living room over coffee, on the sidewalk if you are so suspicious of the police.
The officers were polite and cordial. They didn't treat him like a suspect, demand his ID, search him, place metal bracelets on him, detain his family in the living room, tear through anything, seize anything or DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN HAVE A CONVERSATION.
This is how I see it as well.
From what I read, they asked to look inside and he agreed to it. They didn't inventory it (unless they mentally counted the number of guns he may have had in there. It would be difficult to do that with my own gun safes as there are boxes containing items inside them, etc.) They did ask to photograph and he declined it and they did as he wished.
It just doesn't seem like there is anything here other than the officers saying to each other, "Wow! He's got a lot of guns!" The OP even mentioned they commented on how organized his safes were and how neat he kept things.
Yep.
The more time that passes by, you are kind of losing your case...call them or stop talking about it.
What case?
It may have not gone to that level and instead, may only be a CAD noted call. Reports generally are done regarding a criminal act, not the call received from the reporting party. It could have easily and most likely been dispo'ed as a no crime incident and no report generated.
That is exactly how I would have handled it.
Call for service titled "assist other agency" or "suspicious incident" or "citizen assist" depending on how the report/complaint (if it was a complaint) was generated. Contact the subject of the "complaint" (our fair Mr. Atrain1), determine whether a crime has been/is being/or is about to be committed.
No criminal activity, unfound the complaint. It's really that simple. The pictures request leads me to believe this was a referral from BATFE with a request for pictures if consented to by Atrain1.
Obviously, the officers who responded were cordial and treated you professionally and with respect. They have a job to do, and putting a flippant doormat out or swearing at them and telling them to pound sand does nothing but put a cloud of suspicion over you.
Don't take that to mean you cannot refuse consent. Our current generation of police officers as a whole have a citizens best interests in their heart. They want to arrest bad guys on hot calls, not harass law abiding gun owners. They will, by and large, respect your polite refusal to consent to what you believe to be an unnecessary search of your person or property. Happens all the time.
There is quite a bit to the job of a police officer these days. A lot you don't know about, unless you do the job. Going on a ride along or attending a citizens police academy is a great way to kick off an understanding that will be mutually beneficial to both you and any police you may encounter in the future.
[Beer]
Police ride alongs are terribly boring. I encourage you to not waste your time.
Police ride alongs are terribly boring. I encourage you to not waste your time.
Define boring?
It's not for entertainment purposes, Irving. It's a hell of a dangerous job, which is quite often misunderstood and demonized by folks for no good reason.
There are people here, yourself included apparently, who have a generally negative reaction to ANYTHING LE related.
As a career police officer, shooting enthusiast and gun rights supporter, I seek to change that.
Owning guns means you have to be a political sharp shooter as well as a shiny gun owner.
Inspector Fowler
08-18-2011, 08:21
Hey - a husband and wife team at my church own a local gun shop. It was odd, but it came up that she had a customer who was frustrated that the police had been to his house to look at his guns. The contact sounded exactly like this one.
She told me that if somebody buys two handguns within a five business day period (So I guess one week, unless the first purchase was on a Monday) they are required to report the transactions to the ATF. The ATF website confirms this requirement (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html). Did you perhaps buy two handguns within this period?
Edit - I see others have mentioned this. Late to the party, sorry!
kittrich
09-05-2011, 20:36
Bull Shit
^^^^^That's right! Bullshit!!!!
Um, hey guy, what are we talkin about?
jerrymrc
09-06-2011, 06:07
Bull Shit
Care to explain so the rest of us can see what thought it was that popped into your brain?
Byte Stryke
09-06-2011, 10:21
Care to explain so the rest of us can see what thought it was that popped into your brain?
Tourette Syndrome of the fingers maybe?
[ROFL1]
sneakerd
09-06-2011, 10:28
Take a Byte outta crime!!!! The Byte is back.
Byte Stryke
09-06-2011, 10:32
Take a Byte outta crime!!!! The Byte is back.
Yeah, I Missed you freaks too...
*Hug*
BPTactical
09-06-2011, 10:37
I am going to throw the question of validity to this entire thread.
Given the OP's "other" posts which can most all be viewed with extreme "skepticism" and obvious "embellishments" I sincerely question this "incident".
stevelkinevil
09-06-2011, 10:59
I am going to throw the question of validity to this entire thread.
Given the OP's "other" posts which can most all be viewed with extreme "skepticism" and obvious "embellishments" I sincerely question this "incident".
At this point I am inclined to agree.
sneakerd
09-06-2011, 11:03
You are not alone. Nor did I ever see a follow-up from the op as to the results of his pending call to the PD questioning the issue. Seems like trolling to me.
Colorado Luckydog
09-06-2011, 11:05
I am going to throw the question of validity to this entire thread.
Given the OP's "other" posts which can most all be viewed with extreme "skepticism" and obvious "embellishments" I sincerely question this "incident".
X 2
Really? Given his amazing insight (as shown by the other stellar threads), how can you possibly question his integrity(not to mention his near omniscient knowledge base)?
/extreme sarcasm
OneGuy67
09-06-2011, 11:36
Just when you thought a thread was dead....
funkfool
09-06-2011, 11:37
Just when you thought a thread was dead....
It 'rears' it's ugly head...
Just when you thought a thread was dead....
http://www.motorcycleforums.net/forum/attachments/suzuki/25297d1309921005-intruder-recall-zombie-thread.jpg
I am going to throw the question of validity to this entire thread.
Given the OP's "other" posts which can most all be viewed with extreme "skepticism" and obvious "embellishments" I sincerely question this "incident". Why would I make something like that up, it is funny how people get when they cant do something that means no one else can, I have not embellished one thing if I said I did it thats what went down. I would really like to know why I would make this up and how you know what me and my Lawyer are doing about right now. Maybe I have not been posting stuff on what I am doing cause of stuff like this.
Bailey Guns
09-06-2011, 18:22
Maybe I have not been posting stuff on what I am doing cause of stuff like this.
Oh...so there is an upside.
Bailey Guns
09-06-2011, 18:23
http://www.motorcycleforums.net/forum/attachments/suzuki/25297d1309921005-intruder-recall-zombie-thread.jpg
That zombie chick in the pink robe is HAWT!
I believe whether ATRAIN1 knows it or not, so long as there is nothing to hide, he did the right thing. I would've ascertained the validity of big brother calling through local P.D. before allowing them in though. I believe if he hadn't let them in, both mr. & mrs. ATRAIN1 would have seen dark colored, indistinct sedans everywhere, including front of residence, possibly for weeks, until enough "intel" was gathered for a judge to sign a warrant, at which time, all big brother pleasantries go out the window, carpets get trashed, things get broken, possibly even stolen or confiscated during raid. He had nothing to hide, cooperated upon initial contact, brownie points earned, case closed. Big brother goes on to fuck with somebody else. I do agree with MED, as the police report should reflect as to why an investigation was initiated, anonymous tipster (Big R asshole), or BATF. Could've even been the nosy old lady across the street watching firearms being removed from trunk nightly for that matter. Point is, nothing to hide, cooperate. Something to hide, don't cooperate, and they will return will your requested warrant and you will be violated more so than you currently feel, possibly even being detained for 72 hours without ever being charged with a crime. Probably wouldn't pass a background check in the future either, because of a"glitch". Big brother can be vengeful too, if you fuck with him too much. Keep a lookout for those sedans, seriously. Especially when picking up future transfers, they'll probably need to verify the next several stay in the safe as well before closure. I would probably consult counsel only for your own piece of mind. You only needed a travel size tube of KY for this, not the 1 gal. bucket found only in prison commissaries. Did ya at least get a reach-around? Don't answer that please. I dont think they would have had enough pc to get a warrant but you never know, I have a plan to see exactly who it is once I find out then I will figure out were to go from there. Thanks for your time and input.
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