View Full Version : Pistol In A Rifle Caliber
So I am just trying to figure out what every ones problem is with the pistols in rifle calibers. I understand that alot of people just cant afford it, and that is not who I want to hear from. I want to hear why it is stupid and a bad idea. Thanks for your input.
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 21:49
If you really need the power of a rifle cartridge.... WHY THE F*CK DON'T YOU HAVE A RIFLE.
I'm sorry I just don't see the point. They have too many drawbacks to justify them being practical in any way.
I see them as one of those novelty "because I can" things... kinda like .22TCM 1911s.
So I am just trying to figure out what every ones problem is with the pistols in rifle calibers. I understand that alot of people just cant afford it, and that is not who I want to hear from. I want to hear why it is stupid and a bad idea. Thanks for your input.
I know that my idea of fun is a rifle round with no shoulder to absorb the recoil. besides that fact that the size of the cartidge is a major factor in the size of the gun it self.
USMC88-93
08-08-2011, 21:52
The pistol length barrel in most cases negates the usefulness of the caliber in pistol form. From my experience anyway.
blacklabel
08-08-2011, 21:53
I can't think of a need for one. I can't easily conceal a handgun in .223 or 7.62x39 and that's the primary reason why I have my handguns. If I need a larger round than 9mm or .45, then I should have slung my rifle when I left for the store.
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 22:09
If you really need the power of a rifle cartridge.... WHY THE F*CK DON'T YOU HAVE A RIFLE.
I'm sorry I just don't see the point. They have too many drawbacks to justify them being practical in any way.
I see them as one of those novelty "because I can" things... kinda like .22TCM 1911s.
I'd like to expand a little, because I'm bored and have nothing better to do on a Monday night.
They have too many drawbacks to being practical:
1. Barrel length. There ain't much of it. Rifle cartridges are designed to be shot out of long barrels, they generally are loaded with slower burning powder to take advantage of that length... and there's simply more powder cause it's a bigger round (duh). Shooting these cartridges out of a handgun length barrel, you can't take advantage of their true velocity and energy potentials... which means you don't really have the power of a rifle caliber after all.
2. Round capacity. There ain't much of it. Most rifle-caliber handguns are single shot designs. I know in Atrain world, one hit with a bigger caliber is worth more than multiple hits with a smaller caliber, but 9 out of 10 dead men agree that more rounds > bigger rounds every time.
3. Slow to reload, and chances are if you're shooting something that you need the power of a rifle cartridge for you're going to want to be able to shoot it again quickly when you miss because you don't have enough velocity to accurately carry your bullet to the target.
4. The stock. There ain't one. Even if it was capable of quick follow up shots, you can't adequately absorb the recoil to put a quick follow up shot on target accurately.
I'm sure there's more dumb crap about them but I'm bored with this now.
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 22:12
Oh and
5. They look freakin dumb IMO.
Are you talking about a handgun type of pistol, or an AR or AK kind of pistol?
I'd like to expand a little, because I'm bored and have nothing better to do on a Monday night.
They have too many drawbacks to being practical:
1. Barrel length. There ain't much of it. Rifle cartridges are designed to be shot out of long barrels, they generally are loaded with slower burning powder to take advantage of that length... and there's simply more powder cause it's a bigger round (duh). Shooting these cartridges out of a handgun length barrel, you can't take advantage of their true velocity and energy potentials... which means you don't really have the power of a rifle caliber after all.
2. Round capacity. There ain't much of it. Most rifle-caliber handguns are single shot designs. I know in Atrain world, one hit with a bigger caliber is worth more than multiple hits with a smaller caliber, but 9 out of 10 dead men agree that more rounds > bigger rounds every time.
3. Slow to reload, and chances are if you're shooting something that you need the power of a rifle cartridge for you're going to want to be able to shoot it again quickly when you miss because you don't have enough velocity to accurately carry your bullet to the target.
4. The stock. There ain't one. Even if it was capable of quick follow up shots, you can't adequately absorb the recoil to put a quick follow up shot on target accurately.
I'm sure there's more dumb crap about them but I'm bored with this now.So let me translate, I have never owned one I dont know what I am talking about. Oh yeah were did I ever say you only need one shot, besides my comment about a 340 grain 44.
Are you talking about a handgun type of pistol, or an AR or AK kind of pistol? Guns like the FN 5.7x28 and the ria 22 tcm
Guns like that are created for a pretty small niche market. If you think they are cool, buy one. Don't worry about what other people think. It's a factory gun with at least some reliability and availability of parts/ammo. It's up to you if you want to spend the money on the purchase. It's not like your dedicating your life to reinventing the wheel for something with little to no purpose or something.
I want a Mazda Miata, but I wouldn't ever ask people on the internet if they thought it was a good idea.
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 22:33
So let me translate, I have never owned one I dont know what I am talking about. Oh yeah were did I ever say you only need one shot, besides my comment about a 340 grain 44.
Great (not sarcasm), I enjoy talking with intelligent people that don't agree with me... so pull your head out of your ass and instead of saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, tell everyone why you disagree with what I'm saying. Unless of course you just don't like me cause I'm giving good arguments to everything you've posted recently, then by all means run around saying I don't what I'm talking about without backing it up... its pretty entertaining [Flower]
Oh and my bad, is this better for you?...
I know in Atrain world, less hits with a bigger caliber is worth more than multiple hits with a smaller caliber, but 9 out of 10 dead men agree that more rounds > bigger rounds every time.
Guns like the FN 5.7x28 and the ria 22 tcm
Again my bad, I thought you were talking about a handgun chambered in an actual rifle cartridge:
http://images116.fotki.com/v695/photos/3/39835/2560057/BenchBellm1-vi.jpg
Since you're talking about things like the FN Five7 and your super-cool totally-new FN Five7 wannabe, its a totally different conversation.
I don't consider the 5.7 (or .22TCM) to be rifle powered cartridges. Sure, they may be designed to shoot out of a rifle, but so is a .22LR. They don't have near the power that a true rifle cartridge does, and are really just glorified handgun rounds. The only thing they have over other handgun rounds is velocity... other than that, they're just another handgun caliber.
Why are you acting like such a dick mcantar18c? Is all this attitude really necessary?
blacklabel
08-08-2011, 22:37
I don't consider the 5.7 (or .22TCM) to be rifle powered cartridges. Sure, they may be designed to shoot out of a rifle, but so is a .22LR. They don't have near the power that a true rifle cartridge does, and are really just glorified handgun rounds. The only thing they have over other handgun rounds is velocity... other than that, they're just another handgun caliber.
My thoughts as well. When I think handgun chambered in a rifle cartridge, I think .223 as a minimum.
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 22:41
Why are you acting like such a dick mcantar18c? Is all this attitude really necessary?
He annoys me. He says things that are incredibly dumb (like saying that a .45ACP will drop someone as long as you can get one hit on em), and then when I disagree with him he can only counter with "you don't know what you're talking about.
Train, when it comes to hobbies or most anything for that matter money's always an issue even when you have some to burn you'll always be after more bang for your buck (no pun intended). When ammo is hard to find and costs a substantial amount more than the typical service calibers your toy will likely end up range toy. While range toys are fun and all, I'm a shooter who'd rather use the money on something a bit more practical.
Great (not sarcasm), I enjoy talking with intelligent people that don't agree with me... so pull your head out of your ass and instead of saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, tell everyone why you disagree with what I'm saying. Unless of course you just don't like me cause I'm giving good arguments to everything you've posted recently, then by all means run around saying I don't what I'm talking about without backing it up... its pretty entertaining [Flower]
Oh and my bad, is this better for you?...
Again my bad, I thought you were talking about a handgun chambered in an actual rifle cartridge:
http://images116.fotki.com/v695/photos/3/39835/2560057/BenchBellm1-vi.jpg
Since you're talking about things like the FN Five7 and your super-cool totally-new FN Five7 wannabe, its a totally different conversation.
I don't consider the 5.7 (or .22TCM) to be rifle powered cartridges. Sure, they may be designed to shoot out of a rifle, but so is a .22LR. They don't have near the power that a true rifle cartridge does, and are really just glorified handgun rounds. The only thing they have over other handgun rounds is velocity... other than that, they're just another handgun caliber. The same can be said about that sbr I mean pistal NO SARCASM
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 22:46
The same can be said about that sbr I mean pistal NO SARCASM
Uhhhh..... WTF?
He annoys me. He says things that are incredibly dumb (like saying that a .45ACP will drop someone as long as you can get one hit on em), and then when I disagree with him he can only counter with "you don't know what you're talking about.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel about you, but I don't act like as much of a dick. Maybe sometimes, but I try and tone it down because it is totally unnecessary.
If you think that it is appropriate to act like a total cock to someone just because you don't like them, you've sure got a lot of growing up to do.
Train, when it comes to hobbies or most anything for that matter money's always an issue even when you have some to burn you'll always be after more bang for your buck (no pun intended). When ammo is hard to find and costs a substantial amount more than the typical service calibers your toy will likely end up range toy. While range toys are fun and all, I'm a shooter who'd rather use the money on something a bit more practical. Why does everyone just thank it shoots one kind of bullet. I am currently having mine fitted for a 38 super barrel, thats 3 different rounds out of the same gun
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 22:53
That's pretty much exactly how I feel about you, but I don't act like as much of a dick. Maybe sometimes, but I try and tone it down because it is totally unnecessary.
If you think that it is appropriate to act like a total cock to someone just because you don't like them, you've sure got a lot of growing up to do.
See I have no problem with you, even though we don't agree on some things you can still have an intelligent discussion without resorting to saying crap like "you don't know what you're talking about" without backing it up.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel about you, but I don't act like as much of a dick. Maybe sometimes, but I try and tone it down because it is totally unnecessary.
If you think that it is appropriate to act like a total cock to someone just because you don't like them, you've sure got a lot of growing up to do. Show me a post were I said a 45 will drop you in one hit and that I said you did not know what you are talking about. And if you think it will not while we are on this subject That is just wrong IMO, but I have so many guns the cops end up at my house what do i know.
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 22:56
Why does everyone just thank it shoots one kind of bullet. I am currently having mine fitted for a 38 super barrel, thats 3 different rounds out of the same gun
Multiple calibers out of a handgun isn't anything new to the gun world.
Also, about .38 Super... What's the point? It definitely served its purpose and did it well (talking pre-.357mag days here), but modern technology has caught up to it. You can get the same velocity and energy out of a hot 9mm as you can from an average .38 Super, and you can get it in a cheaper, more readily available, and smaller package.
blacklabel
08-08-2011, 22:59
Show me a post were I said a 45 will drop you in one hit and that I said you did not know what you are talking about. And if you think it will not while we are on this subject That is just wrong IMO, but I have so many guns the cops end up at my house what do i know.
When I was going through my tactical training I practiced 2 in the chest and one to the head. Now the problem for most people is once you are being shot at, your heart is racing and shot placement is going to be a big problem. So I say that for 2 reasons 1 I dont think any jury is going to put you behind bars for unloading a gun into a guy, that is threatining your life especialy if he has a gun, 2 a bigger caliber like a 45 will help if you are having problems with shot placement when your heart is racing, do to it being such a big slow moving bullet it will put the target down pretty much anywere you hit it. Now I think if you were to unload more than 1 mag into a guy, or shoot some one when they are running away is when you will have a problem.
Multiple calibers out of a handgun isn't anything new to the gun world.
Also, about .38 Super... What's the point? It definitely served its purpose and did it well (talking pre-.357mag days here), but modern technology has caught up to it. You can get the same velocity and energy out of a hot 9mm as you can from an average .38 Super, and you can get it in a cheaper, more readily available, and smaller package. That is just because I have always wanted a 38 super
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 23:02
Show me a post were I said a 45 will drop you in one hit and that I said you did not know what you are talking about. And if you think it will not while we are on this subject That is just wrong IMO, but I have so many guns the cops end up at my house what do i know.
... again with a 45 it is going to take them down as long as you can put one in the guy.
Bam.
So by your logic:
Having lots of guns = knowing lots about guns.
Having a drivers license = you're a good driver.
Having a CCW permit = you know how to fight with a gun.
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 23:06
Well look at that, you asked for it and now you've got not one but TWO of your own quotes [ROFL1]
That is just because I have always wanted a 38 super
See now that's a perfectly fine reason to want a .38 Super, or a .22TCM, or a handgun in a "rifle caliber." You asked for practical, logical reasons that people don't like them, and those are the answers you got.
I would love to have an Anzio 20mm rifle, though it serves absolutely no practical purpose for me. I recognize and accept that, I don't try to justify it with reasoning... I simply want one just because I want one.
See I have no problem with you, even though we don't agree on some things you can still have an intelligent discussion without resorting to saying crap like "you don't know what you're talking about" without backing it up.
I also don't have a problem with you. I just think you're young and angry and full of energy. :p
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 23:08
I also don't have a problem with you. I just think you're young and angry and full of energy. :p
You say that like its a bad thing [Coffee]
[Beer]
Were did I say you did not know what you were talking about. And do you really not think a 45 will do that.
Well look at that, you asked for it and now you've got not one but TWO of your own quotes [ROFL1]
See now that's a perfectly fine reason to want a .38 Super, or a .22TCM, or a handgun in a "rifle caliber." You asked for practical, logical reasons that people don't like them, and those are the answers you got.
I would love to have an Anzio 20mm rifle, though it serves absolutely no practical purpose for me. I recognize and accept that, I don't try to justify it with reasoning... I simply want one just because I want one. Maybe it is just me, I wanted more info, and that is my fault I should have asked for people that have owned them, I have just seen to many adds were every on thinks that over penitration will be a problem.
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 23:24
Were did I say you did not know what you were talking about.
Stop asking "where did I say ___?" Searching through your posts is time consuming. Here ya go:
So let me translate, I have never owned one I dont know what I am talking about. You quoted one of my posts and this is your response Oh yeah were did I ever say you only need one shot, besides my comment about a 340 grain 44.
And do you really not think a 45 will do that.
Uh... didn't you just ask "where did I say it would do that?" in a way that made it sound that you don't think it would?
Look at our recent posts in the the .45 vs 9mm thread, you'll see plenty of info on this subject.
Maybe it is just me, I wanted more info, and that is my fault I should have asked for people that have owned them, I have just seen to many adds were every on thinks that over penitration will be a problem.
That's because it likely WILL be a problem.
See what I mean Irving?
Yeah I know what you mean, I did from the start, but you're never going to educate anyone by telling them how stupid they are.
Stop asking "where did I say ___?" Searching through your posts is time consuming. Here ya go:
Uh... didn't you just ask "where did I say it would do that?" in a way that made it sound that you don't think it would?
Look at our recent posts in the the .45 vs 9mm thread, you'll see plenty of info on this subject.
That's because it likely WILL be a problem.
See what I mean Irving? I dont think it will I dont see this going anywere but around and back and fourth, I got it because I wanted something that would be more pwerful than my brothers 5.7 so to each his own.
If you really want to show him up, throw one of these on one of your 1911's.
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm
He'll poop a little.
If you really want to show him up, throw one of these on one of your 1911's.
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm
He'll poop a little.yeah I want one of those so bad, I want to do it with my mac10 with the carbine kit, it will take down a wall in 30 rds
mcantar18c
08-08-2011, 23:46
Yeah I know what you mean, I did from the start, but you're never going to educate anyone by telling them how stupid they are.
I was hoping telling him why he's stupid would help a little... but you're right. Just can't fix stupid.
I thought this thread would be about bashing the .22 Long rifle cartridge used in pistols.
:)
stevelkinevil
08-16-2011, 00:45
If you really want to show him up, throw one of these on one of your 1911's.
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm
He'll poop a little.
That is just obscene, and I really like it.
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