View Full Version : Advice
Thank you for all of the kind welcomes and tips. I don't know if I can buy a tip top Noveske right off the bat -- SO what are some of your mid-upper suggestions for an AR type M4A3?
I have read over and over "buy a Colt or you will be sorry that you didn't", but I have learned that there is much more to an AR-15 than that. In fact I had an LE6920 back ordered for 1,050$, but it was cancelled by the dealer- they can't get it. So then I was thinking of buying the Colt Defense 6720 flat plat that seems a bit pricey and controlled by Clyde Armory, maybe I am wrong. I just looked at the Stag website, how times have changed ~ the old 500-600$ Stag is now over 1,000$ just like everything else. I am a lost newbie - the Rock River Arms R4 Entry Tactical did call to me & I know it has a nice trigger set, does anyone have good or bad or uglies about the RRA R4? So I am asking you all for your bare bones favorite AR's from ~ 1,000-1,400$ -- I would really appreciate it.
Also, I read some great threads today. - i.e. "Where to Shoot". You all remember the Mountain shooting range above that little town North of Bailey/Crow Hill? (the one with all the bowling pins). Anything like that in the foothills/Front Range anymore? Since I have come home they have closed it (I couldn't find it again - but there is BLM on the South side of the Highway).
Anyway, I have read and read, blah blah blah and need solid advice -- read stories such as; buy a LMT lower and upper separately and the attach to save money, Stag is the same base platform as SW M&P, Bushmaster has horrible specs (that was news, I love the Bushy's I have shot) - etc etc etc. I just want to have a few good options to choose from if you all can help me. I am sure just about all of the new AR's are acceptable, but I am looking for the best bang for the buck to make the right decision - if it costs ~ 600$ or 1,400$ + to begin with...
Thank you & I apologize if I am beating a dead horse, I know you have heard all of this before.
Much appreciated,
Ozzie
mcantar18c
08-09-2011, 00:41
BCM is pretty good quality for a pretty good price IMO.
You'll get lots of opinions on this.
If you're not looking to spend a small fortune, Spikes has been doing some good things lately.
mcantar18c
08-09-2011, 00:48
+1 on Spikes.
If you're able/willing to build your own, Spikes has cosmetic blem stripped lowers for around $90 IIRC. You could get one of them and get the internals from BCM, with either for an upper. I think Spikes has cosmetic blem uppers and BCM has good deals on complete ones.
BushMasterBoy
08-09-2011, 00:54
A used Spikes Tactical lower on a gas piston upper from CMMG for a total cost of $850
specs on the upper here...
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/M4-LEP-II-Upper-1374
they can be had cheaper at Sportsmans Guide
Robby30-06
08-09-2011, 01:23
I just typed paragraphs and then deleted them deciding to say you have come to the correct forums to help you make an informed decision about AR Clones vs Colt (imho Colt has mostly collector and heritage value).....I suppose additional info can be found in member posts to follow.....
Great-Kazoo
08-09-2011, 06:37
there are enough parts and accessories for sale here and other boards, that you could assemble your own for a lot less than new retail.
I would say Spikes is really good- if you can afford it... Noveske makes some really nice rifles (or riffles if you're nynco :P ) and I currently have a POF P415 which I love- but it's a piston system and some aren't really fans esp since it raises the rail a bit by comparison to DI. I have friends who have DPMS and they say they're pretty good. I personally agree with Robby- Colts are good, but there are better out there, and the Colt is really more for name dropping and historical value. I put my seal of approval an POF, Spikes, Noveske, LWRC and haven't heard anything bad about BCM... also the Barrett AR I shot recently is pretty nice- but the price is a bit higher than I'd actually pay.
Alright you have already tried dropping a nice thousand already so I think the door is open for ya on this. Go with POF, plain and simple choice for the money. If you have it to spend on one, you don't get any better for a piston upper. Someone posted a video of how and why the POF system is better, but I can't find it or I would have reposted it for you. Anyway, do your homework and you will see yourself.
BPTactical
08-09-2011, 11:29
Colt 6920 is more or less the standard on a M4 pattern rifle.
Olympic, DPMS and the "Off brands" are generally the "lower teir"
Noveske,Rainier, Daniel Defence, POF are generally the "upper teir" rifles.
So now you need to find something in the middle. LMT is worthy of consideration as is an older Bushy. I would take a Smith and Wesson over a Stag. Colts are damn good rifles so don't discount them.
Bravo Company are great for the money as is CMMG. Rock River is not too bad.
For the price you already tried to drop, here is an 18" POF upper for $1025 on GB: 245798542
Here is a nice 16" with a nice protective finish for $1250 on GB: 245328368
Like I said, you were already gona drop the price on something in that similar ball park, so why not get the best you can?
Colt 6920 is more or less the standard on a M4 pattern rifle.
Olympic, DPMS and the "Off brands" are generally the "lower teir"
Noveske,Rainier, Daniel Defence, POF are generally the "upper teir" rifles.
So now you need to find something in the middle. LMT is worthy of consideration as is an older Bushy. I would take a Smith and Wesson over a Stag. Colts are damn good rifles so don't discount them.
Bravo Company are great for the money as is CMMG. Rock River is not too bad.
Again BP, I usually bow to your excellent advice... personally though, I wasn't overly wowed by RRA. Fired and field stripped one and just something about it didn't sit well with me. Bushmasters are good, I used an M4A2 in the Army made by Bush and they're decent, just not the biggest fan of DI, I'd rather have a piston system.
BPTactical
08-09-2011, 15:00
Again BP, I usually bow to your excellent advice... personally though, I wasn't overly wowed by RRA. Fired and field stripped one and just something about it didn't sit well with me. Bushmasters are good, I used an M4A2 in the Army made by Bush and they're decent, just not the biggest fan of DI, I'd rather have a piston system.
Never claimed RockRiver had a "Wow" factor, when a new one would come in it was more of a "Meh" factor. They are a halfway decent rifle and the best thing about them was being able to pretty much order any configuration. The upcharge of 40.00 for a chrome lined bore was BS though.
I like piston guns just fine.
That's why we have AK's and FAL's.
I can't think of one piston AR that has not exhibited bolt tilt or battering that I have seen.
I like piston guns just fine.
That's why we have AK's and FAL's.
I can't think of one piston AR that has not exhibited bolt tilt or battering that I have seen.
Wait, so you're saying I'm going to get bolt tilt and/or battering on my POF someday? Uh oh, that's a lot of money I have invested in that weapon.
BPTactical
08-09-2011, 16:08
Wait, so you're saying I'm going to get bolt tilt and/or battering on my POF someday? Uh oh, that's a lot of money I have invested in that weapon.
You may. All I can attest to is the piston AR's I have worked on have shown signs of bolt tilt, battering or otherwise unusual wear.
With a G-I rifle the gas impulse is evenly distributed to the bolt carrier/bolt and is a rapid although smooth impulse. It is also directly in line with the bore which helps keep recoil managable.
On a piston rifle the entire recoil impulse is focused on the top of the bolt, where the gas key usually resides. This results in bolt tilt and battering of the impact area of the carrier. It also causes the recoil impulse to be about 3/4" above the bore centerline. This can contribute to muzzle rise.
I am just not a big fan when folks go about trying to re-invent the wheel. Eugene Stoner was a mechanical genius similar but no equal to John Browning. Everytime somebody thinks they are smarter than the original designer and deviate too much from the design the results are usually less than expected.
YMMV.............................................. .....
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