Question for LEOs

[Lex_Luthor]

Is it common practice to pull someone over for a license plate infraction, run their license which comes up as "denied" (whatever that means) and then impound someone's car for unpaid parking tickets?

Yesterday my fiance was driving her Jeep to the library and was contacted by Adams County Sheriff. Apparently her license plate registration is past due (neither of us had checked in a while, dummy mistake on our part), but when he ran her license he told her it was "denied". Not suspended. Not under revocation. Denied. He asked if she was aware that her license was "denied" and she didn't even know what that meant. He told her she shouldn't be driving, and that this had been in effect since June of 2008. She NEVER received anything from the Dept of Motor Vehicles saying anything about an issue with her license. She doesn't have any moving violations. Just a couple parking tickets from Denver that need to be paid. She had honestly just forgotten about them. Then the officer told her that he would just give her a court summons instead of impounding the car, because he "trusted" that she would just drive home and not drive again. Her summons is for expired registration and for driving with a "denied" license.

Here's where it gets weird. She called the Dept of Motor Vehicle License Division, and talked to a high-up manager. He looked at her license record and said that it isn't "denied" and has no idea what the officer was talking about. Her license isn't suspended, it isn't revoked, and more over, there's NOTHING in there referring to the year 2008 that would indicate anything similar. She called the court and they had NO idea what the officer was talking about either. They said that they would tow a car if it was illegally parked, but from that location, not after an officer made contact with someone. Or they would boot the car, but they said that unpaid parking tickets have NO bearing on one's license.

So she's going to be calling the police station itself this morning to ask, and to challenge why was a ticket even written for "driving while license denied."

....? Any LEOs have any input? How would the officer even be able to run her license and come up with something completely different than even the DMV has on file? Aren't they looking at the same database? How come both the DMV and the Court have absolutely NO idea what this guy was talking about?

BTW: She's pretty sure it wasn't an impersonator. It was a fully marked, Adams County Sheriff car, he had a complete uniform, his badge number and name are on the summons, and it was a legitimate court summons.

FORGOT TO ADD: Oh yeah, AND he fingerprinted her when she signed the court summons! Right there, on the spot. I've never had this happen before. Is this new standard procedure?

[Ronin13]

I'm no LEO, but I would contact Adams County Sheriff and first find out if said Deputy is actually on the department, then contact the court and see if she actually has to make an appearance. If yes to the court appearance, get all necessary documentation either in person or faxed from DMV and bring it to court (or even before the summons date go to the court house and see if you can handle it). There may be a need to pay some sort of court fees but odds are if there was an error and her license is (as we can assume) valid the whole thing should be thrown out.
Good luck, this sounds like maybe the deputy entered the DL# wrong or something.

[BPTactical]

I would get a letter from DMV attesting to her having a license in good standing then go visit ADCO and ask them to explain the officers statement while they are reading said letter.

[TFOGGER]

What is the code section on the summons?

As far as I knew, the only official statuses for a DL were valid, expired, restricted, suspended, or revoked...but I'm not LE or DMworthlesslazybastardV...

[Lex_Luthor]

She called the police department, and the woman she talked to had no idea what the officer meant by "denied" license either. I would assume that she does still need to go to court because of the expired registration part of the ticket. But the other half is very strange. She did say that she is familiar with the officer who wrote the ticket and asked if she wanted him to give her a call or his Sergeant. My fiance suggested that the sergeant giver her a call. The woman she talked to also said to ask about being fingerprinted too, whether or not it's standard procedure.

[Ronin13]

Never in all my years have I heard of someone being fingerprinted during a traffic stop? Something sounds fishy here... were there black vans parked in areas that offered good lines of sight? Maybe she got Punk'd...

[Lex_Luthor]

The code for expired tags as written on the summons was 038 (she thinks, trying to decode the officer's handwriting.

The code for "denied" license he wrote 078

-- She also talked to Denver Parking Violations and they ALSO had no idea what was going on, that parking violations have no bearing on one's license status.....

[Jumpstart]

Fingerprints,.... during a traffic stop? That sounds way, way out of bounds to me.

[TFOGGER]

Found this on the Colorado Dept of Revenue site:

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?c=Page&cid=1207900868757&pagename=Revenue-MV%2FRMVLayout (http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?c=Page&cid=1207900868757&pagename=Revenue-MV%2FRMVLayout)


Revocation: A mandatory restraint action on a valid driver's license or driving privilege. A revoked license is invalid and cannot be re-issued. After reinstatement of your driving privilege you must re-test (both written and drive) to be issued a new license.
Suspension: A temporary withdrawal of the driving privilege. A suspension is a restraint action but does not void the driver's license. A valid license may be re-issued upon reinstatement. A license that has expired must be renewed upon reinstatement. Point suspensions require a written test at renewal.

Denial: A restraint action when no valid license exists at the time of restraint.

Cancellation/Denial: Actions to void a Colorado license and deny the driving privilege. Reinstatement is required and passing of a written and a road test is mandatory.

Cancellation: This action will void a valid Colorado license. A cancellation by itself is not a restraint action and does NOT require reinstatement if complied with in a timely manner. Another license/permit may be issued, unless the reason for cancellation is still outstanding.


Possible causes for restraint:
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Revenue-MV/RMV/1218536116688

[BlasterBob]

She doesn't have any moving violations. Just a couple parking tickets from Denver that need to be paid. She had honestly just forgotten about them.


I sure hope this does not make me look like an insensitive old fart but "forgetting" to pay a traffic ticket of any kind is, to me, about like "forgetting" to pay your Federal income tax - things that just can't be overlooked or forgotten. On the upside, at least the car didn't get booted, hauled off, impounded and then costing a small fortune to retrieve it. It will be interesting to hear more about that fingerprinting thing. Good luck.

[blacklabel]

I'm very curious about the fingerprinting. I'm not sure how I'd handle being asked for fingerprints during a traffic stop.

[Lex_Luthor]

Apparently the fingerprinting is something new that Adams County is doing during traffic stops because of a lot of illegal immigrants. Something to curb that I guess, but I don't see how that really helps, fingerprint them and cut them a check on the spot? The sergeant was glad that my fiance was asking about it and concerned about it because of the impersonators lately. The sergeant didn't know why the DMV told her that her license was in good standing, because they are accessing the same database. So it seems that the sergeant thinks the error was on the DMV's side. And EVERYONE else she's talked to, wondered what the officer was seeing when he accessed her file. My fiance has had ONE moving violation ever. She paid it a little late, but was within the grace period and everything was fine. They still don't know why parking tickets would affect someone's license... She's calling the DMV again, and will probably be going there in person tomorrow to get this dealt with.

[OneGuy67]

Is it common practice to pull someone over for a license plate infraction, run their license which comes up as "denied" (whatever that means) and then impound someone's car for unpaid parking tickets?

Yesterday my fiance was driving her Jeep to the library and was contacted by Adams County Sheriff. Apparently her license plate registration is past due (neither of us had checked in a while, dummy mistake on our part), but when he ran her license he told her it was "denied". Not suspended. Not under revocation. Denied. He asked if she was aware that her license was "denied" and she didn't even know what that meant. He told her she shouldn't be driving, and that this had been in effect since June of 2008. She NEVER received anything from the Dept of Motor Vehicles saying anything about an issue with her license. She doesn't have any moving violations. Just a couple parking tickets from Denver that need to be paid. She had honestly just forgotten about them. Then the officer told her that he would just give her a court summons instead of impounding the car, because he "trusted" that she would just drive home and not drive again. Her summons is for expired registration and for driving with a "denied" license.

Here's where it gets weird. She called the Dept of Motor Vehicle License Division, and talked to a high-up manager. He looked at her license record and said that it isn't "denied" and has no idea what the officer was talking about. Her license isn't suspended, it isn't revoked, and more over, there's NOTHING in there referring to the year 2008 that would indicate anything similar. She called the court and they had NO idea what the officer was talking about either. They said that they would tow a car if it was illegally parked, but from that location, not after an officer made contact with someone. Or they would boot the car, but they said that unpaid parking tickets have NO bearing on one's license.

So she's going to be calling the police station itself this morning to ask, and to challenge why was a ticket even written for "driving while license denied."

....? Any LEOs have any input? How would the officer even be able to run her license and come up with something completely different than even the DMV has on file? Aren't they looking at the same database? How come both the DMV and the Court have absolutely NO idea what this guy was talking about?

BTW: She's pretty sure it wasn't an impersonator. It was a fully marked, Adams County Sheriff car, he had a complete uniform, his badge number and name are on the summons, and it was a legitimate court summons.

FORGOT TO ADD: Oh yeah, AND he fingerprinted her when she signed the court summons! Right there, on the spot. I've never had this happen before. Is this new standard procedure?

Okay. I am a LEO and will answer your questions. The full term is cancelled/denied and it does show "cancel/deny uj not clear" on your driving privileges that shows up when a name/dob is run. The officer (or dispatcher) then has to contact DMV via computer system and confirm the driving status. It is for violations that occur that are not arrestable offenses, such as parking citations (the most common), wildlife violations (camping without paying, etc), or even not paying child support or taxes. the confirmation received from DMV would show the date the action took place and some other minor information like unpaid citation.

The court doesn't tow vehicles, nor does it have any input on the towing of vehicles, so I don't know who your wife spoke to or why they would say that. The court deals with the statute violations. The towing is done at a agency level, based upon their policy and procedures.

You would not usually receive anything from DMV on it, as they are doing it at the request of another agency. Now, if you are suspended, revoked, etc., that is a DMV action they've initiated and you receive notice from them. In this case, they assume you've received notice from the agency/city in which the actions that prompted the cancel/deny to be asked for, have notified you.

I have in the past impounded vehicles of drivers who were cancelled/denied, but only if they couldn't provide a proof of insurance or get a valid driver to take the vehicle. It was a last resort type thing and I would work with the driver to get someone to drive the vehicle away. In your wife's case, she doesn't have a driver's license and her registration is expired, so I can see where the officer was contemplating on impounding the vehicle.

Fingerprinting on the roadsite isn't common, but it isn't uncommon either. My last local agency had in car cameras and I would have those people whom I had some concerns about their identity step out of the vehicle and stand in front of the patrol vehicle for a few moments and record their image. Usually only occured when the driver didn't have their ID with them and other indicators didn't add up (like not driving a vehicle registered to them) and I didn't have enough to come out and say they weren't who they say they were. I cleared up a couple of cases this way, when it did turn out the person was lying about who they were (using a siblings identity) to get out of being arrested or getting a citation and the accused person came to the station and identified the suspect of the stop.



I'm no LEO, but I would contact Adams County Sheriff and first find out if said Deputy is actually on the department, then contact the court and see if she actually has to make an appearance. If yes to the court appearance, get all necessary documentation either in person or faxed from DMV and bring it to court (or even before the summons date go to the court house and see if you can handle it). There may be a need to pay some sort of court fees but odds are if there was an error and her license is (as we can assume) valid the whole thing should be thrown out.
Good luck, this sounds like maybe the deputy entered the DL# wrong or something.

The courts would not receive the citation yet, so they wouldn't have any idea as to answer the specific questions provided to them. It takes between one-two weeks before the citations wind their way through the local agencies paper stream to get to the court and go through their paper stream.

I would obtain the record indicated by the DMV that indicated the record was incorrect as the officer is going to attach his confirmation to the citation which showed the cancelled/denied status was correct. If she is in fact cancell/denied, I would clear that with the DMV by taking care of the citations that caused it, pay the reinstatement fee and take all that to court and most courts will dismiss the charge. Same goes for the expired tags.


I would get a letter from DMV attesting to her having a license in good standing then go visit ADCO and ask them to explain the officers statement while they are reading said letter.

See above.


What is the code section on the summons?

As far as I knew, the only official statuses for a DL were valid, expired, restricted, suspended, or revoked...but I'm not LE or DMworthlesslazybastardV...

See above.


Never in all my years have I heard of someone being fingerprinted during a traffic stop? Something sounds fishy here... were there black vans parked in areas that offered good lines of sight? Maybe she got Punk'd...

You ain't that old, son. Not fishy.

[Ronin13]

You ain't that old, son. Not fishy.

Meant as a joke... you know like all our grandpas would say "Never in all my years..." And I know I'm still pretty young, but I sure do have some miles on me.

[Lex_Luthor]

Thanks OneGuy. Any idea why the officer would have something inconsistent with the DMV's records?

So parking tickets DO in fact, affect one's driver's license.... ?

[OneGuy67]

Thanks OneGuy. Any idea why the officer would have something inconsistent with the DMV's records?

So parking tickets DO in fact, affect one's driver's license.... ?

I think there is a glitch somewhere (we are talking computer systems, after all), but when she goes down to 1881 Pierce St in Lakewood to speak to the DMV people about the issue, they can provide her with either a clearance printout or if they were in error on the phone with her, a printout of the information they were given by the city/agency/state.

Yes, parking citations can affect your driving privilege. Has been that way for over 15 years now. Most cancel/denied people I ran across as a patrol officer, had their privileges taken away due to unpaid parking citations, usually due to more than one. The cancel/deny was a way to address the issue for out of state traffic citations (what can Kansas do to me for that speeding ticket? ), parking citations, and other minor, administrative things. They are an action being requested of the DMV and not a DMV action. Example: You get a number of speeding citations in one year and you exceed the amount of points allowed. All the courts are going to send the DMV copies of the citation to the DMV and they figure out you are over the points allowed. The DMV then suspends your driving privilege for excessive points for a period of time. It is a DMV action. The courts didn't do it (they actually can't do it).

[OneGuy67]

Meant as a joke... you know like all our grandpas would say "Never in all my years..." And I know I'm still pretty young, but I sure do have some miles on me.

Yeah...I thought that too at 27. You got a lot of life yet to live and learn from. Talk to me in 20 years.

[Lex_Luthor]

We're in Unincorporated Adams County, but use the Northglenn DMV office I believe. But the process should be the same, right?



I think there is a glitch somewhere (we are talking computer systems, after all), but when she goes down to 1881 Pierce St in Lakewood to speak to the DMV people about the issue, they can provide her with either a clearance printout or if they were in error on the phone with her, a printout of the information they were given by the city/agency/state.

Yes, parking citations can affect your driving privilege. Has been that way for over 15 years now. Most cancel/denied people I ran across as a patrol officer, had their privileges taken away due to unpaid parking citations, usually due to more than one. The cancel/deny was a way to address the issue for out of state traffic citations (what can Kansas do to me for that speeding ticket? ), parking citations, and other minor, administrative things. They are an action being requested of the DMV and not a DMV action. Example: You get a number of speeding citations in one year and you exceed the amount of points allowed. All the courts are going to send the DMV copies of the citation to the DMV and they figure out you are over the points allowed. The DMV then suspends your driving privilege for excessive points for a period of time. It is a DMV action. The courts didn't do it (they actually can't do it).

[OneGuy67]

We're in Unincorporated Adams County, but use the Northglenn DMV office I believe. But the process should be the same, right?

Don't quote me on this, but I was under the impression that all local DMV offices are required to send people with license issues to the 1881 Pierce Street office, where they deal with the problems.

That is where everyone has to go to meet with a DMV hearing officer if you are contesting a DUI revocation specifically, and having spent a lot of time in the waiting room waiting for specific cases I was involved with to be heard, I overheard a lot of conversations about suspensions, etc. being spoken about at the counter.

The best bet would be for her to call and see what she needs to do to get a copy of her driving record.

[Irving]

The DMV is not good at keeping correct records, and even worse at notifying you of issues.

My cousin didn't have a license for over two years (for an out of state ticket) and never knew about it until he embarrassed himself by applying for a driving job. They were excited to hire him until they had to tell him that he didn't even have a license.

Go the Pierce St DMV in Lakewood. Be prepared to spend all day there though.

[KevDen2005]

I may be late here, but it's CRS 42-2-138...Driving a motor vehicle while a license is under restraint (whether revoked, suspended, or denied). Not exactly sure why one happens versus the other, but I go directly off of what DMV sends us.

During the license clearance it will show as one of those three things, dispatch will send a request for DMV for confirmation. Again, this sounds more like DMV is being their usual selves.

And I used to be a dispatcher so it is not uncommon that a dispatcher wouldn't know what that means. Ask to make sure that they were actually stopped by an officer (If they aren't sure), either speak to the officer about the ticket or his/her supervisor for clarification. I also have no problem answering questions by the driver in question during the traffic stop, which I understand that many people are uncomfortable in doing this with cops.

[KevDen2005]

Well, as always, OneGuy beat me to the answer. Dang it.

But just to add in, I also fingerprint during traffic stops on specific types of tickets or a notice of revocation, which I give to you after I keep your license for it being revoked.

[OneGuy67]

Well, as always, OneGuy beat me to the answer. Dang it.

But just to add in, I also fingerprint during traffic stops on specific types of tickets or a notice of revocation, which I give to you after I keep your license for it being revoked.

Sorry dude! [Tooth]

[hollohas]

But just to add in, I also fingerprint during traffic stops on specific types of tickets or a notice of revocation, which I give to you after I keep your license for it being revoked.

Sorry if this is a little off topic...

Can you refuse to have your prints or picture taken during a traffic stop? Seems to me those things are for criminal records...and if you're not being charged with a criminal offense I don't think they should be taken. Almost like your saliva can be taken from you for DNA without a warrant, correct?

One reason I ask is I have had prints taken exactly one time, for my CCW. Last time I crossed the boarder into Canada for work I was pulled aside into a back room, after I had passed all the customs and was on my way out the door of the airport. An officer in full tactical kit came out of the woodwork, made a straight line to me and cut me off at the door. I was led to a back room and the first question out of his mouth was "have you ever been finger printed?" They questioned me for 5 minutes, searched my stuff and took my passport to another backroom for another 20 minutes before they sent me on my way...

I have never been arrested and the only time I have ever had any recorded contact with LEO was one speeding ticket in Nebraska 11 years ago (promptly taken care of) and my CCW application process. Other than that I am squeaky clean. Literally, not one other time in my life have I had official or semi-official contact with any LEO. The only reason I can fathom why they pulled me aside was that my name popped up on some screen because my prints are on file somewhere. Which makes me not want to have my prints taken anymore...

[Lex_Luthor]

Thanks again for the responses from KevDen and OneGuy, and for your insight. We are going to get her car registered and get her license issue fixed as well. Is there a chance that if the screw-up was on the DMV's end, and if the DMV's records are not correct, that this issue would be thrown out in court as long as she gets her license reinstated, tickets paid, and car registered before the court date?

[OneGuy67]

Thanks again for the responses from KevDen and OneGuy, and for your insight. We are going to get her car registered and get her license issue fixed as well. Is there a chance that if the screw-up was on the DMV's end, and if the DMV's records are not correct, that this issue would be thrown out in court as long as she gets her license reinstated, tickets paid, and car registered before the court date?

I can only speak to experiences with Arapahoe County, but they usually will dismiss the citation if all the issues discussed here are taken care of prior to court. The "I didn't know about this until I was stopped and I took care of it promptly when it was pointed out by the officer" goes a long way. At least it did.