View Full Version : Setting up dies
OK, so I went out and spent a lot more money than I should have today on new equipment and the wife isn't exactly pleased. The worst part is, I can't even get the thing working right to show her that it was money well spent.
I bought a set of RCBS 3 pc. carbide dies. For the most part, I think I get the resizer/primer pusher outer thing and the belling die (I have no idea if these are what they're really called) set up properly. The problem is the 3rd die, the one that seats the bullet and crimps the casing. I can't get the damn thing to work!!!! Sorry, just a little frustrated.
Everytime I pull the handle on the press, the bullet actually ends up getting stuck inside the die. I've tried moving the whole die up and the pusher thing in the middle down, but to no avail. If I move the plunger up, the bullet doesn't get stuck, but it doesn't get pushed into the case either. I've only had one round so far come out ok, and that was with the bullet being sandwiched much too low into the brass.
Someone please help before I go ballistic and destroy my basement in a fit of rage directed at the reloading gods for not allowing my first time to go smoothly and making me look like a money wasting whore in front of my wife (ok, I really am that, I just didn't want to be exposed for a couple more years). :evil:
RTFM
what types of bullets are you using?
if all else fails, call RCBS. They have great customer service.
I did RTFM, 3 times in fact. I guess i'll scan through it once more to see if there's something I've missed.
I'm using X-treme bullets .45 cal. I bought a box of 500 for ~$40.
here's a question I meant to ask earlier. I'm doing .45 ACP and the bullets do not have a crimp groove in them. Does this mean that I should not be crimping them? That may be the problem as I thought I was supposed to be. According to the manual, it says "Do not crimp on jacketed bullets unless they have a crimping groove". I'm using bullets that are copper plated, but I don't think this means they are jacketed.
first, I wasn't trying to be impolite in any way... RTFM was just a reminder, sometimes you'll find stuff 'hidden' in there...
remember: "when all else fails, read the instructions" :)
some bullets don't work too well with some dies.
the RCBS uses taper or roll type crimp IIRC... and that is where you have to be careful with the crimper... I use a LEE factory crimp on my stuff and don't have a problem.
Yea, You want to be careful with .45 ACP, it headspaces off the case mouth, so, You don't want to overdo Your crimp. A nice taper crimp is the way to go. Of course the bet way is the Lee crimp dies, It's almost impossible to mess those up.
Sorry if I came off snippy, I was in no way intending that. I guess it's hard to make certain points on the internet, sorry.
I just tried an empty round moving the die way up and the seating tool way down and it seemed to work just fine. I think I'll make a live round and shoot one off tomorrow and see what happens. Barrels are cheap, right.....?
Yea, You want to be careful with .45 ACP, it headspaces off the case mouth, so, You don't want to overdo Your crimp. A nice taper crimp is the way to go. Of course the bet way is the Lee crimp dies, It's almost impossible to mess those up.
So, basically, I should have gotten Lee dies instead, damn.
What happens if I don't crimp it (or atleast such a small crimp that I can't see it) and fire one off and it ends up not working out? How much damage do I stand to do?
when you set the die are you backing the die a full turn back from just touching the top of a sized case? i've never done .45 but that is how I set my 9mm and .357 mag they are rcbs also.
Yea, You want to be careful with .45 ACP, it headspaces off the case mouth, so, You don't want to overdo Your crimp. A nice taper crimp is the way to go. Of course the bet way is the Lee crimp dies, It's almost impossible to mess those up.
So, basically, I should have gotten Lee dies instead, damn.
What happens if I don't crimp it (or atleast such a small crimp that I can't see it) and fire one off and it ends up not working out? How much damage do I stand to do?
we call that a kaboom below is an example, I would never fire a round when I question if I made a mistake reloading it. my, or the life of others around me are not worth it. you will figure it out it just takes time and practice.
http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/kaboom2.jpg
No, You can buy the crimp dies seperatly.
And, pay attention to car-15's post. If Your close to Westminster I could stop by and have a look see.
if you are in southern colorado I run a semi up and down I-25 from pueblo to new mexico I can stop by and take a look.
Holy shit. Would that be the result of over/double charging? Could that happen from just not crimping the bullet?
No, You can buy the crimp dies seperatly.
And, pay attention to car-15's post. If Your close to Westminster I could stop by and have a look see.
Awesome! I'm in Westy on 88th between Wads and Independance. I wish you could come over tonight, we're shooting tomorrow morning and I'd love to shoot off some of my "Scott" brand ammo.
PM Your addy, I'll see. :mrgreen:
HunterCO
09-04-2006, 00:09
Scott you will do no harm if you crimp it light or not at all. Like I told you don't crimp it excesive there is no need too.
Why the round is getting stuck in the die has me stumped you are useing the same set of dies that you used with me yesterday.
If you want give me a call you have my number if you lost it PM me.
HunterCO
09-04-2006, 00:14
Yea, You want to be careful with .45 ACP, it headspaces off the case mouth, so, You don't want to overdo Your crimp. A nice taper crimp is the way to go. Of course the bet way is the Lee crimp dies, It's almost impossible to mess those up.
So, basically, I should have gotten Lee dies instead, damn.
What happens if I don't crimp it (or atleast such a small crimp that I can't see it) and fire one off and it ends up not working out? How much damage do I stand to do?
we call that a kaboom below is an example, I would never fire a round when I question if I made a mistake reloading it. my, or the life of others around me are not worth it. you will figure it out it just takes time and practice.
http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/kaboom2.jpg
Come on Osprey don't tell the guy he can blow his gun up because he didn't crimp the round enough. If you don't know what your talking about don't give advice. :roll:
Thanks Tim. I think that the crimp was too tight. Marlin came over and took a look and said it looks alright. I'm going to make up a few rounds and shoot them tomorrow and see how it goes. Thanks for the info on not blowing my gun up with a lack of a crimp. That's exactly what I was looking for.
HunterCO
09-04-2006, 00:51
The only thing I have to say is your going shooting and I am not. :cry:
Have some fun for me. :mrgreen:
Colorado Osprey
09-04-2006, 05:19
we call that a kaboom below is an example, I would never fire a round when I question if I made a mistake reloading it. my, or the life of others around me are not worth it. you will figure it out it just takes time and practice.
http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/kaboom2.jpg
Come on Osprey don't tell the guy he can blow his gun up because he didn't crimp the round enough. If you don't know what your talking about don't give advice. :roll:
Huh? that was car-15....not me
There are plenty of rounds I don't crimp...like just about any jacketed bullet without a canalure....heck even a bunch that do.
I do agree with the statement
"I would never fire a round when I question if I made a mistake reloading it.
Get a separate crimp die...
If you try to crimp *and* seat at the same time, a couple things happen. The bullet is being pushed down while the case is getting crimped. No matter how you do it, there at the end, the case is fully crimped and the bullet still has a touch to go. Sometimes the bottom of the case gets belled out if you have too much crimp. Or, you shave some copper off the bullet and these little rings of copper rolling around the inside of your pistol.
Add in variations in case length and you can get a lot of crimp, just enough, or not enough.
I like to crimp until I just leave a faint ring on a pulled bullet and I cant push the bullet any deeper with firm thumb pressure. Too much crimp and accuracy falls off, bigtime.
A good wag for 45ACP and 10mm is an OAL of 1.250 and 9x19 and 40 is 1.130.
I dont crimp rifle ammo, at all.
I tried the Lee FCD, but took them off my 1050s and 550s cause it made them too jerky and much less smooth. I case-pro all my brass and use an EGW undersize die, so I am not really worried about fat cases anymore.
Even if you are using carbide dies, use case lube like Hornady One Shot. Your shoulder will thank you.
Go slow and step away when you get confused or frustrated. I have been reloading since I was 12 or 13, and I still learn stuff.
http://coloradoshooting.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/Hoser/Bench_Chaos.sized.jpg
hunterco, all I'm saying is if you start making mistakes and still shooting questionable reloads, where does it stop? its human nature to test the envelope. I would rather someone showed me the extreme consequences now, rather than having to post the results of my surgery later. or worse having my wife post my death on here for you guys to feel sorry for me. hunterco I have pmed you on arf.com to no avail for trying to jump on me for no reason (I can find the link if needed) and watched you jump on people here, what is your problem? with mod status you should be taking care of problems not creating them. sorry to hijack this post, but since this gentelman's problem has been taken care of, and with no results from my pm, I belive it's time. if I'm in the wrong here I will gladly delete my membership and move on. some people dont know everything (myself included) that is why there is no stupid question.(expecially when reloading) but when someone asks a question and gets an answer that dont agree with another's and we jump on them, that is a perfect way to chase away new, as well as older members. my rant is over and I will jump down of my soapbox now.
HunterCO
09-04-2006, 11:31
Osprey my bad I was tired and it was late I appologize. :oops:
Car-15 I was not jumping on you and didn't mean any offense. Scott is a newbie when it comes to loading and does not need false info that is all I was getting at. He came over to my house saturday night and he loaded 100 rnds.
I agree that if there is any doubt as to a load I would not shoot it either. He asked if he could hurt his gun by not useing enough crimp and you said he could blow his gun up. That is false no need to scare the guy like that. I am not trying to run anybody off you included but do not want to see a new guy to reloading scared away either.
Not enough crimp can be bad if it leads to bullet set-back...
KarlPMann
09-05-2006, 00:31
VERY TRUE! All aspects of hand loading are important for one reason or another. Learn slowly, and be careful. Karl.
Thanks for all the info and advice guys.
I made 20 rounds on Sunday night and shot all 20 of them off on Monday. I didn't blow a gun up :P I was actually pretty proud of myself that all 20 (save one) fired fine and I couldn't tell any difference between them and the WWB rounds I brought as well.
Tim, all 100 rounds that I made at your house went fine. I had one round that I made that didn't fire. The firing pin made contact with the primer, it just didn't go bang..... I assume it was a faulty primer.
Thanks again to everyone, I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions.
Not enough crimp can be bad if it leads to bullet set-back...
What is bullet set-back?
HunterCO
09-05-2006, 14:03
Not enough crimp can be bad if it leads to bullet set-back...
What is bullet set-back?
Remember how I explained to you why I use ballistic tip bullets in my high powers. Well if the crimp was to light it could push the bullet back into the case farther.
You do not have to worry about that with the .45 you are loading. There is plenty of press even without a crimp.
What powder and charge did you use? I am going to guess the same as what we used at my house.
Not enough crimp can be bad if it leads to bullet set-back...
What is bullet set-back?
What powder and charge did you use? I am going to guess the same as what we used at my house.
Yep, identical. Figured I'd keep it simple. :mrgreen:
What is bullet set-back?
Thats the bullet being pushed back into the case when it hits the feedramp.
One way to check for it is to cycle the same round through the gun a few times, then measure it to see if it got any shorter than it was before you started.
Loading ammo short will make pressures go up in a hurry. Thats bad.
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