Expiration dates of canned goods.

[jerrymrc]

Many ask about this topic. There is some data on canned goods but it is still a MFG recommendation and always, always, errs on the worst storage conditions.

Heat is the enemy of any stored food. Some do not like it at all. Take a look at the MREinfo site and you will see what I mean.

So where do we fit into this issue? Tonight I was making some split pea soup because I happen to like it and it is dirt cheap to make. I like to have ham in it so I remembered I had some cans of DAK that was put up years ago when it was on sale at $1.99 per can.

I looked and grabbed one and the can was not bulged or looked odd. I opened it up and used it in the soup. I tasted it as it came out of the can and it was fine.

After I tossed it into the soup I thought about how old it was. It expired in 2008. It had been stored down in the room I keep all my foods in that runs between 50-70 degrees. During the couple of hot months we have the room can get to 70 but in the winter it runs 50 so if I had to guess it averages 60 or less.

I have talked about this before but not too long ago there were no expiration dates on canned goods. The judge of a canned good was weather it was bulged/damaged or smelled bad when you opened it.

I understand that many are used to having absolutes. As one person put it years ago when his wife started to toss a bunch of stuff because it was the month after the "expiration" date. "Do you think there is a switch that tells the food to go bad this month?"

Most company's will tell you 12-18 months after the date. It is always a CYA thing. High acidic foods are the quickest to go. Tomatoes and anything that has a large amount in it always needs looked at once you get 12 months past the date. Do inspect these products on a regular basis because if it starts to go it will go quick.

Having a can explode in your pantry is no fun and it does happen. Rotate your stock. I am working on something that will help with this in the future but I am not there yet. Of course being in this forum assumes that you have a large stock of canned goods. Buy cheap and stack em deep.

This has been a PSA from your friendly S&P mod. [Flower]

[ChadAmberg]

Also a lot of products have a "Sell by" date, which isn't the same as a "Use by".

And something like 99% of medicines (with the exception of a few antibiotics) are good 20+ years after they "expire." Chalk it up to companies wanting you to throw out an old bottle of aspirin and buy new combined with the government laws screwing you for the same reason.

But... the thing about tomatoes makes me think it's time to make a big ol' batch of chili tonight.

[KevDen2005]

I'm getting hungry...

I think I will check out the recipe thread

[StagLefty]

Cleaned out the camper earlier this summer and found a can of beans that had been in there for 13 years. Needless to say it had been through some extreme temps. Decided to give it a try out of curiousity. It wasn't terribly bad but not your regular flavored can of beans. I was surprised that I didn't have any bad effects that night but I survived.
If the can had bulged or been rusted I wouldn't have tried this but I just had to tempt the canned food gods. [Beer]

[Prometheus]

Yeah you didnt have any bad effects, but how did your wife sleep.
[Tooth]

[mcantar18c]

I have a can of some kind of fancy tomato soup in the back of my pantry stamped 2006 or 2008 or something. Kind of tempted to open it up now...

[StagLefty]

Yeah you didnt have any bad effects, but how did your wife sleep.
[Tooth]

Have to ask her current husband [ROFL1]

[Colorado_Outback]

My mom is the volunteer organizer for her company, they do a lot of work for Care and Share food bank here in Springs.

The general rule they use is 5yrs after the exp date for any non acidic cans, 1yr after the date for acidic cans.

Anything leaking/rusty or bulged in any way gos in the trash.

[Sawin]

My mom is the volunteer organizer for her company, they do a lot of work for Care and Share food bank here in Springs.

The general rule they use is 5yrs after the exp date for any non acidic cans, 1yr after the date for acidic cans.

Anything leaking/rusty or bulged in any way gos in the trash.

Thanks for the insightful tip. I'm curious however if one should consider fruits like peaches or pears to be "acidic". I figure the several cans of mandarin oranges that I have are acidic, and of course tomatoes, but what else is there that you or she considers acidic enough to toss at 1 year?

[Wulf202]

Part of the reason is the food is still edible but the nutritional content degrades over time so the accuracy of the label is not correct after the ~12 months which is why they say that.

I've eaten canned corn that was 10 years past it's expiration date (grandma was depression era and going into senility). It tasted more like the can than corn... No ill effects.

[86k10]

I ate some ravioli's that were 16 months past expiration date and they were ok. The sauce was not smooth like it should be. A little bit "Chunky". Some of my stock is old but I am not going to throw it away.

[motorep]

www.stilltasty.com

[Colorado_Outback]

Thanks for the insightful tip. I'm curious however if one should consider fruits like peaches or pears to be "acidic". I figure the several cans of mandarin oranges that I have are acidic, and of course tomatoes, but what else is there that you or she considers acidic enough to toss at 1 year?

I dont think so.. The mandrian oranges and most fruits like that are all packed in water or in a light sugar syrup.

Much less acidic than anything tomato based..

[SA Friday]

I dont think so.. The mandrian oranges and most fruits like that are all packed in water or in a light sugar syrup.

Much less acidic than anything tomato based..

Bzzzzzt! Oh no... And so close to the bonus round too.[Tooth]

Tomato based foods have a pH around 4.0 to 4.8. Fruits are citric acid compounds and run in the range of 2.0 ish even diluted.

The reason acidic compounds go bad faster is because hydrogen (pH is a measurement of the concentration of hydrogen ions, or hydronium, in the solution) is the ultimate electron swappin tool in chemistry. Let any mix of organic compounds sit enou and you are going to start seeing those little critters start swapping H's like wives at a swingers orgie. A year later... Goop.

Not all medications are good for an exuberant amount of time. Each medication is specific to it degradation capabilities and times. Some oxidize and die, some unravel all by themselves over time, some are very UV or IR sensitive. It all depends on the molecular structure of the medication and the packaging and storage. Hell, some can degrade into some really nasty stuff. So remember this about old meds, "hey kid, don't put that in your mouth. You don't know what in it or where it's been."

[Bootifus]

I too have had corn, green beans, peas and carrots that were about 10 years past the date (Grandmas are the same all over). Didn't taste all that great, but I'm still here..

[ChadAmberg]

Not all medications are good for an exuberant amount of time. Each medication is specific to it degradation capabilities and times. Some oxidize and die, some unravel all by themselves over time, some are very UV or IR sensitive. It all depends on the molecular structure of the medication and the packaging and storage. Hell, some can degrade into some really nasty stuff. So remember this about old meds, "hey kid, don't put that in your mouth. You don't know what in it or where it's been."

If you're careful with medicine storage, they can last a significant amount of time past what you'd think. From Harvard: (http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update1103a.shtml)

It turns out that the expiration date on a drug does stand for something, but probably not what you think it does. Since a law was passed in 1979, drug manufacturers are required to stamp an expiration date on their products. This is the date at which the manufacturer can still guarantee the full potency and safety of the drug.

Most of what is known about drug expiration dates comes from a study conducted by the Food and Drug Administration at the request of the military. With a large and expensive stockpile of drugs, the military faced tossing out and replacing its drugs every few years. What they found from the study is 90% of more than 100 drugs, both prescription and over-the-counter, were perfectly good to use even 15 years after the expiration date.

So the expiration date doesn't really indicate a point at which the medication is no longer effective or has become unsafe to use. Medical authorities state expired drugs are safe to take, even those that expired years ago. A rare exception to this may be tetracycline, but the report on this is controversial among researchers. It's true the effectiveness of a drug may decrease over time, but much of the original potency still remains even a decade after the expiration date. Excluding nitroglycerin, insulin, and liquid antibiotics, most medications are as long-lasting as the ones tested by the military. Placing a medication in a cool place, such as a refrigerator, will help a drug remain potent for many years.

Is the expiration date a marketing ploy by drug manufacturers, to keep you restocking your medicine cabinet and their pockets regularly? You can look at it that way. Or you can also look at it this way: The expiration dates are very conservative to ensure you get everything you paid for. And, really, if a drug manufacturer had to do expiration-date testing for longer periods it would slow their ability to bring you new and improved formulations.

[SA Friday]

If you're careful with medicine storage, they can last a significant amount of time past what you'd think. From Harvard: (http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update1103a.shtml)

It turns out that the expiration date on a drug does stand for something, but probably not what you think it does. Since a law was passed in 1979, drug manufacturers are required to stamp an expiration date on their products. This is the date at which the manufacturer can still guarantee the full potency and safety of the drug.

Most of what is known about drug expiration dates comes from a study conducted by the Food and Drug Administration at the request of the military. With a large and expensive stockpile of drugs, the military faced tossing out and replacing its drugs every few years. What they found from the study is 90% of more than 100 drugs, both prescription and over-the-counter, were perfectly good to use even 15 years after the expiration date.

So the expiration date doesn't really indicate a point at which the medication is no longer effective or has become unsafe to use. Medical authorities state expired drugs are safe to take, even those that expired years ago. A rare exception to this may be tetracycline, but the report on this is controversial among researchers. It's true the effectiveness of a drug may decrease over time, but much of the original potency still remains even a decade after the expiration date. Excluding nitroglycerin, insulin, and liquid antibiotics, most medications are as long-lasting as the ones tested by the military. Placing a medication in a cool place, such as a refrigerator, will help a drug remain potent for many years.

Is the expiration date a marketing ploy by drug manufacturers, to keep you restocking your medicine cabinet and their pockets regularly? You can look at it that way. Or you can also look at it this way: The expiration dates are very conservative to ensure you get everything you paid for. And, really, if a drug manufacturer had to do expiration-date testing for longer periods it would slow their ability to bring you new and improved formulations.

I don't disagree with the above at all, but this information doesn't cover each drug in specificity. Tetracycline can become some pretty nasty stuff depending on how it degrades. Most antibiotics, including the solid pill forms, have a tendency to degrade from heat and UV, some fairly quick. Some will last for years after the expiration. I'm not a pharmacist, but have to deal with this info in chemistry class all day, and the bottom line is you have to research the meds you want to keep long term and understand their different storage capabilities and how to test them. Titration is the best method of testing most antibiotics for their potency, but I suspect the mass majority have no idea hot to titrate and then do the stoichometry afterwards to determine how much denigration has occurred. Then, you have to figure out how much to administer based on the % potency remaining from the current stock. In other words, do I take two or three or four pills?

You start getting into specialized drugs, and all standards do not apply. Stuff like mercaptapuran and methotrexate are highly specialized drugs sub derived from nitrogen mustards and their synthesized counterparts. One of their uses is to suppress the immune system in lupus patients. Another use is low grade leukemia chemotherapy. Nitrogen mustards are the same precursor used in making mustard gas. If either of these two degrade, you literally could have a concoction of nasty stuff. A lot of drugs like the above utilize amine chemical groups in their molecular structure. It's rare, but with multiple amine groups in a highly acidic compound, the degradation can result in a compound called hydrazine. That stuff is just plain poison.

Most over the counter drugs, you are going to be ok. Prescription stuff? Better off doing the research ahead of time.

[hollohas]

Off Topic...

SA Friday, I know you study chemistry but not only that, it seems like you LOVE IT. For that I say...nerd. Kidding.

I did some chemistry while getting an engineering degree and while I didn't think it was extremely difficult (rather basic classes of course), I was not fond of it in the slightest.

I hope your love of chemistry pays off and you invent the next Viagra or something.

Back on topic....now.

How long can one store something like a vitamin C supplement? That is a biggie in my book. I don't want to get scurvy when SHTF and I don't know of many citrus trees in CO. Rose Hips have lots of vitamin C but we don't have tons of roses either. Vitamins in a bottle seem like the best bet.

[Nix]

As my parents/aunts/uncles aways said:

"expiration dates didn't exist when we grew up. You opened something and looked at it. If it looked OK, you smelled it, if it smelled ok you tasted it. If at any point it did not appear good (look/smell/taste) throw it out otherwise eat it."

[Bootifus]

As my parents/aunts/uncles aways said:

"...If it looked OK, you smelled it, if it smelled ok you tasted it. If at any point it did not appear good (look/smell/taste) throw it out otherwise eat it."


I have taken the same approach to women...

[ChadAmberg]

I have taken the same approach to women...

I can see you in a bar now... "Excuse me miss, you're pretty hot, but I need to check for mold..."

[tmckay2]

Foods aren't a huge risk. If it looks and smells ok it's probably fine. May have little to no nutritional value but still fine. Depends a bit on the food. Medications are a risky business. If it's past a year old I wouldn't use it unless life or death

[tactical_2012]

Made some Mac N Cheese the powder type with an expiration date of 8/24/2010 on it tonight. I used some fresh from the farm buttermilk to reconstitute the powder cheese. It tasted great may have to buy a few dozen of these and repackage them in some mylar for longer SHTF storage

[rbeau30]

Made some Mac N Cheese the powder type with an expiration date of 8/24/2010 on it tonight. I used some fresh from the farm buttermilk to reconstitute the powder cheese. It tasted great may have to buy a few dozen of these and repackage them in some mylar for longer SHTF storage

Pretty good Idea, I may add that to my stores as well. Buttermilk? hmm... sounds different, I'll try that too :-D

[jerrymrc]

Made some Mac N Cheese the powder type with an expiration date of 8/24/2010 on it tonight. I used some fresh from the farm buttermilk to reconstitute the powder cheese. It tasted great may have to buy a few dozen of these and repackage them in some mylar for longer SHTF storage

I have bought the cheese in bulk and put it up in mylar along with plenty of pasta. Much cheaper that way. $22 gets you a #10 can. http://store.honeyvillegrain.com/powderedcheesecan.aspx#.UhLKt3_pyys [Flower]

And they have powdered buttermilk as well.

[hollohas]

Since Jerry mentioned the Honeyville cheese I'll mention their current discount code. Use code "FOODIE" during checkout at Honeyville today to get 10% off.

[jerrymrc]

Since Jerry mentioned the Honeyville cheese I'll mention their current discount code. Use code "FOODIE" during checkout at Honeyville today to get 10% off.

I should post them up when they come in. They normally are good for 3-4 days. I just forgot. Honeyville also has cheap shipping.

[tactical_2012]

Ya I no longer buy honeyville now that walmart is carrying Augason Farms products no shipping cost and its cheaper

[SideShow Bob]

If there is anyone brave enough, while going through some old boxes that have been packed for several moves, I can across a couple of cans of Harley Davidson beer from Sturgis. One is 1984 and the other is 1985...........

[jason303]

I'd go with depression era wisdom personally. One bit of advice from me: pay attention to the flimsy plastic bag type packaging you see in cereal and crackers, etc. It'll degrade quicker than the food contents and make your saltines taste like diesel.

[tactical_2012]

Well I found a pack of McCormick's Brown Gravy in the back of the spice cabinet tonight the "use by date" was August 21, 2009. Well I figured heck with it lets try it. Cooked it up to go with the Pot Roast and taters the wife made tonight. It thickened up fine and tasted great. I think I'm going to have buy a bunch for my food stash.

[blacklabel]

Well I found a pack of McCormick's Brown Gravy in the back of the spice cabinet tonight the "use by date" was August 21, 2009. Well I figured heck with it lets try it. Cooked it up to go with the Pot Roast and taters the wife made tonight. It thickened up fine and tasted great. I think I'm going to have buy a bunch for my food stash.

A lot of times those mixes are stored in thin mylar packaging and they're dry in the first place. I wouldn't have any issues using them well past their use by date.

[rbeau30]

A lot of times those mixes are stored in thin mylar packaging and they're dry in the first place. I wouldn't have any issues using them well past their use by date.


I found an archive of an FDA page... talks a little bit about preservation and an old can of corn.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080115081538/http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00043.html


Barring the container's deterioration... the food can stay good for a long time.

[jerrymrc]

Barring the container's deterioration... the food can stay good for a long time. And I will agree and that is why I started this thread in the first place. [Flower]

[HoneyBadger]

How long can one store something like a vitamin C supplement? That is a biggie in my book. I don't want to get scurvy when SHTF and I don't know of many citrus trees in CO. Rose Hips have lots of vitamin C but we don't have tons of roses either. Vitamins in a bottle seem like the best bet.
I'm curious about this as well. I have a few bottles of centrum multivitamins that I hope aren't worthless in 5 years.

[Wulf202]

Storage and degridation are hard to define without specifics. The container. Wet or dry packed and if they use an o2 obsorber. If I can find my chart on permeability of products ill post it.

If you can get things dry packed in steel or mylar and youre good for 10ish years.

[Aloha_Shooter]

30 years ago, I took some K-Rats on a school outing. My father had rescued a case of them when the Department of Civil Defense was rotating its supplies -- the case was dated (best as I recall) 1946 or 1948 or something like that. None of the cans were rusted or bulging. The P-38 worked like a charm of course. The spaghetti itself was bland and a rather disgusting texture since I hadn't bothered to heat the can before opening it -- in fact, after seeing the can, a schoolmate offered me his lunch if I'd throw it out. The fruit cocktail was marvelous. I survived eating both.

Think about what the item is and what it would take to make it degrade. Yogurt is past its date but has been kept sealed and cool? Just what do you think would have caused it to spoil? Do you think sugar or vinegar will go bad?

We live in wimpy weenie times.