Craigslist Heist

[sbouslog]

http://www.9news.com/news/article/213884/188/Craigslist-sellers-robbed-at-gunpoint-in-Aurora

Personally I try to get all my transactions with strangers done during daylight hours. There is no way I am meeting someone in a remote place in Aurora at night. As an avid seller on CL I know that I am responsible for my well being during a transaction. The few times that I have invited buyers over to my place to look at goods (larger items) I had guns hidden all over my place in case SHTF.

[Colorado_Outback]

Wow..

I have never had a problem with a cragislist transaction, but never meet people with out a weapon for that reason right there.

[Ridge]

Whenever I've done a large cash transaction on Craigslist, I've carried when we met, which was nowhere near my house.

[airborneranger]

Wow..

I have never had a problem with a cragislist transaction, but never meet people with out a weapon for that reason right there.

I am with you on this one. I recently sold a trailer on CL. I met in a business parking lot and I was carrying :).

[Bailey Guns]

From now on, I want to conduct all gun transactions in the food court at Park Meadows Mall...just to be safe.

[Lex_Luthor]

What would happen in a case like the above, if you were carrying but didn't have a ccw permit? What if he pulled a gun on you and you defended yourself? What kind of legal battle are you up against?

[Graves]

What would happen in a case like the above, if you were carrying but didn't have a ccw permit? What if he pulled a gun on you and you defended yourself? What kind of legal battle are you up against?

"I was OC'ing, guess he didn't see it"

[Colorado_Outback]

Also just being aware, body language says a lot.

One of the victims said that the dude was shaking as he approached.

Red Flag.

To me that says your working up the courage to do something stupid. The guy also stated that he didnt think he presented a threat because of his age and appearance.. Seriously... A 16yo girl can shoot you or walk up and stab you just as quick as a grizzly lookin crack head.

[Colorado_Outback]

What would happen in a case like the above, if you were carrying but didn't have a ccw permit? What if he pulled a gun on you and you defended yourself? What kind of legal battle are you up against?

If he has a deadly weapon, a gun or knife and threatens me with it. Im going to shoot him..

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...

EDIT: Didn't see the bit about not having a permit, that's a different deal..

[sniper7]

I always carry when meeting anyone...but I carry any time I am outside the house and usually have a gun or ten laying around ready to roll if needed.

[rondog]

Big red flag to me is when someone approaches and their head is swivelling, looking all around them like they're scanning for cops, whether it's a transaction or parking lot, or anywhere. That's the body language I watch for the most. Anybody coming towards you while obviously looking for danger is up to no good, IMO.

FWIW, I've done a ton of transactions like this, mostly from members here, with nary a problem. Heh, I bought some brass in a parking lot from a LEO member here, and I'd bet $20 that the guy sitting in the pickup a few spaces behind us was there as his backup!

Yes, I spotted him, and it made me smile! Like a fat, gimpy old cracker like me could be a threat.....[ROFL1]

[BPTactical]

Like a fat, gimpy old cracker like me could be a threat.....[ROFL1]

Shit Ron, your the worst kind[ROFL1]

[alan0269]

What would happen in a case like the above, if you were carrying but didn't have a ccw permit? What if he pulled a gun on you and you defended yourself? What kind of legal battle are you up against?

If I remember correctly, in Colorado your vehicle is an extension of your home and you are legally able to carry concealed in your vehicle.

[cysoto]

If I remember correctly, in Colorado your vehicle is an extension of your home and you are legally able to carry concealed in your vehicle.

Good answer! Now riddle me this... How far from your vehicle are you permitted to stand before you are no longer in your vehicle?

[cysoto]

What would happen in a case like the above, if you were carrying but didn't have a ccw permit? What if he pulled a gun on you and you defended yourself? What kind of legal battle are you up against?

By merely carrying a concealed weapon (without proper documentation), you could be charged with a Class 2 Misdemeanor under 18-12-105 ( http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll/cocode/1/2e7f3/32995/329bf/32a0b?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0 ).

If you had to unholster your weapon and, God forbid, use it against another human being, the charges will become significantly more stringent.

Colorado is a "Shall Issue" State. If you want to carry a concealed pistol, exercise your Legal Right by going through the proper process of applying for a CC permit.

[rondog]

Shit Ron, your the worst kind[ROFL1]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/smilies/gun.gif

[alan0269]

Good answer! Now riddle me this... How far from your vehicle are you permitted to stand before you are no longer in your vehicle?

I never really worried about that as I do have my permit, but it would be good info for someone to know if they did make the decision to carry in their vehicle without one.

[Lex_Luthor]

I know it's legal to carry in your own home, and in your car. But what about using your firearm in a situation like that?

[airborneranger]

I know it's legal to carry in your own home, and in your car. But what about using your firearm in a situation like that?

I have a ccw and I didn't carry concealed until I got one. I would think that I would rather be charged with some sort of crime for using my firearm over the risk of being shot by some jerk hole.

[Mazin]

I always carry when meeting anyone...but I carry any time I am outside the house and usually have a gun or ten laying around ready to roll if needed.

^This

[tactuppernut]

Something is being overlooked here. We all have loved ones and extended family making these transactions as well. Not only is my chamber hot during the numerous CL transactions I've made previous to this, I insist upon "tagging along" with all other family transactor's potential deals as well, especially when larger $$ transactions may occur (cars, boy toys and so on). Gone so far as taking separate vehicles and lurking in the shadows before.
In regards to weapons in cars, CO dictates one loaded and concealed sidearm per vehicle. An empty auto with a separately stored loaded mag. IS considered loaded. No loaded rifles', scatterguns or bazooka's. Here's something interesting, I cannot find any code that addresses' revolver speed loaders, I.E., it seems to be even though an empty auto with a charged mag. inside of vehicle is considered to be a loaded weapon, an empty revolver with charged speed loader is not. Anybody know for sure?
Last thing, each local governing municipalities' are different. Laws in certain municipalities have been passed further restricting loaded sidearms inside of vehicles. City of Denver is the 1st that comes to mind, where any loaded weapon inside of a vehicle is illegal (class 3 felony) without a c/c permit. Charges are even more stringent within 500 feet of schools, various municipal buildings and so on. Most of us would look like doughnuts on legs by the we'd be paroled. No craigslist transactions in the city of Denver for me!
Did anybody know CO c/c permits are good in something like 18 other states? There's a list somewhere in cyberspace.
Did anybody know an Arizona drivers' license is good for 40 years and doubles as an AR c/c permit? If it wasn't so ^&%&^$^% hot, I'd move there and save a few bucks(lived there between May-Oct 1 summer season,*&^*&% sucked ass!).
Lastly, I can't %&^$%$%^$ believe that stupid-ass pinhead retard wound commit multiple felonies over an IPhone, my vote is already cast for this years Darwin's award!!

[alxone]

Something is being overlooked here. We all have loved ones and extended family making these transactions as well. Not only is my chamber hot during the numerous CL transactions I've made previous to this, I insist upon "tagging along" with all other family transactor's potential deals as well, especially when larger $$ transactions may occur (cars, boy toys and so on). Gone so far as taking separate vehicles and lurking in the shadows before.
In regards to weapons in cars, CO dictates one loaded and concealed sidearm per vehicle. An empty auto with a separately stored loaded mag. IS considered loaded. No loaded rifles', scatterguns or bazooka's. Here's something interesting, I cannot find any code that addresses' revolver speed loaders, I.E., it seems to be even though an empty auto with a charged mag. inside of vehicle is considered to be a loaded weapon, an empty revolver with charged speed loader is not. Anybody know for sure?
Last thing, each local governing municipalities' are different. Laws in certain municipalities have been passed further restricting loaded sidearms inside of vehicles. City of Denver is the 1st that comes to mind, where any loaded weapon inside of a vehicle is illegal (class 3 felony) without a c/c permit. Charges are even more stringent within 500 feet of schools, various municipal buildings and so on. Most of us would look like doughnuts on legs by the we'd be paroled. No craigslist transactions in the city of Denver for me!
Did anybody know CO c/c permits are good in something like 18 other states? There's a list somewhere in cyberspace.
Did anybody know an Arizona drivers' license is good for 40 years and doubles as an AR c/c permit? If it wasn't so ^&%&^$^% hot, I'd move there and save a few bucks(lived there between May-Oct 1 summer season,*&^*&% sucked ass!).
Lastly, I can't %&^$%$%^$ believe that stupid-ass pinhead retard wound commit multiple felonies over an IPhone, my vote is already cast for this years Darwin's award!!
ok so if i have a gun with a full mag thats ok but if i have my bazooka and a round not loaded in it at the same , is it ok or not ok[Tooth]

[tactuppernut]

ok so if i have a gun with a full mag thats ok but if i have my bazooka and a round not loaded in it at the same , is it ok or not ok[Tooth]
NICE!!!

[TFOGGER]

In regards to weapons in cars, CO dictates one loaded and concealed sidearm per vehicle. An empty auto with a separately stored loaded mag. IS considered loaded.
Not sure where you came up with this. A firearm is considered loaded when there is a live round in the chamber under CO law. I can find no limitation on the number or type of loaded handguns permitted in a vehicle. Code sections?
No loaded rifles', scatterguns or bazooka's.
Correct CRS 33-6-125 (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll/cocode/1/5a2cb/5a2f3/5a8c0/5a8f4/5aace?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0)
Here's something interesting, I cannot find any code that addresses' revolver speed loaders, I.E., it seems to be even though an empty auto with a charged mag. inside of vehicle is considered to be a loaded weapon, an empty revolver with charged speed loader is not. Anybody know for sure?
Last thing, each local governing municipalities' are different. Laws in certain municipalities have been passed further restricting loaded sidearms inside of vehicles. City of Denver is the 1st that comes to mind, where any loaded weapon inside of a vehicle is illegal (class 3 felony) without a c/c permit. Charges are even more stringent within 500 feet of schools, various municipal buildings and so on.
Incorrect. Covered by CRS 18-12-105 (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll/cocode/1/2e7f3/32995/329bf/32a0b?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0) and CRS 18-12-201 (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll/cocode/1/2e7f3/32995/329bf/32a0b?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0)

Most of us would look like doughnuts on legs by the we'd be paroled. No craigslist transactions in the city of Denver for me!
Did anybody know CO c/c permits are good in something like 18 other states? There's a list somewhere in cyberspace.

Actually, it's more than 35 other states, currently.
Did anybody know an Arizona drivers' license is good for 40 years and doubles as an AR c/c permit? If it wasn't so ^&%&^$^% hot, I'd move there and save a few bucks(lived there between May-Oct 1 summer season,*&^*&% sucked ass!).
Lastly, I can't %&^$%$%^$ believe that stupid-ass pinhead retard wound commit multiple felonies over an IPhone, my vote is already cast for this years Darwin's award!!

I agree that Craigslist transactions require a certain amount of caution. If I am the buyer, I want to meet at their house or in a well lit public place, and I will almost certainly be armed (especially if I am carrying a significant amount of cash). If I am selling, I generally do it from my business location, where I have a tactical and armament advantage.

[tactuppernut]

I agree that Craigslist transactions require a certain amount of caution. If I am the buyer, I want to meet at their house or in a well lit public place, and I will almost certainly be armed (especially if I am carrying a significant amount of cash). If I am selling, I generally do it from my business location, where I have a tactical and armament advantage.
Look at the big brain on Brad! Been 3+ years since I've researched this. I'll thread after some fresh digging. Not sure if code has changed since or last 2 concussions are still causing issues.

[stevelkinevil]

I have probably done over a hundred craigslist transactions with no problems, just goes to show you allways have to be on guard.

[jplove71]

Did anybody know an Arizona drivers' license is good for 40 yearsActually, it will expire on your 60th birthday which won't be 40 years from the time you get a new license on your 21st birthday.


and doubles as an AR c/c permit?
Huh?

[TFOGGER]

Look at the big brain on Brad! Been 3+ years since I've researched this. I'll thread after some fresh digging. Not sure if code has changed since or last 2 concussions are still causing issues.

Actually, it's Jim [Beer]

State law became the overriding law on concealed carry in 2003, when the "shall issue" portion of CRS 18-12-2xx took effect. Denver sued the state, claiming Home Rule City status exempted them from the state law. The Meyer Decision (http://www.rmgo.org/2004-news) basically allowed Denver to keep their Assault Weapons ban in place, and regulate open carry, but voided their ordinances concerning concealed/vehicle carry.

[Bailey Guns]

Something is being overlooked here. We all have loved ones and extended family making these transactions as well. Not only is my chamber hot during the numerous CL transactions I've made previous to this, I insist upon "tagging along" with all other family transactor's potential deals as well, especially when larger $$ transactions may occur (cars, boy toys and so on). Gone so far as taking separate vehicles and lurking in the shadows before.
In regards to weapons in cars, CO dictates one loaded and concealed sidearm per vehicle. An empty auto with a separately stored loaded mag. IS considered loaded. No loaded rifles', scatterguns or bazooka's. Here's something interesting, I cannot find any code that addresses' revolver speed loaders, I.E., it seems to be even though an empty auto with a charged mag. inside of vehicle is considered to be a loaded weapon, an empty revolver with charged speed loader is not. Anybody know for sure?
Last thing, each local governing municipalities' are different. Laws in certain municipalities have been passed further restricting loaded sidearms inside of vehicles. City of Denver is the 1st that comes to mind, where any loaded weapon inside of a vehicle is illegal (class 3 felony) without a c/c permit. Charges are even more stringent within 500 feet of schools, various municipal buildings and so on. Most of us would look like doughnuts on legs by the we'd be paroled. No craigslist transactions in the city of Denver for me!
Did anybody know CO c/c permits are good in something like 18 other states? There's a list somewhere in cyberspace.
Did anybody know an Arizona drivers' license is good for 40 years and doubles as an AR c/c permit? If it wasn't so ^&%&^$^% hot, I'd move there and save a few bucks(lived there between May-Oct 1 summer season,*&^*&% sucked ass!).
Lastly, I can't %&^$%$%^$ believe that stupid-ass pinhead retard wound commit multiple felonies over an IPhone, my vote is already cast for this years Darwin's award!!

Ummm...you need to stop trying to quote Colorado law since you're woefully misinformed regarding every legal tip you just mentioned (with the exception of no loaded long guns in/on vehicles...and that's a Title 33 statute, not a Title 18 statute).

There is no statute that says you can have, or are limited to, "X" number of loaded handguns in your vehicle in the state of Colorado. And it's been that way since at least the late 80s when I went to the academy.

Municipalities can not regulate loaded handguns in cars...already been challenged by Denver in 2003 after the new CCW laws were passed. Denver lost.

[Bailey Guns]

TFOGGER beat me to it on the Meyer Decision.

[Colorado_Outback]

Look at the big brain on Brad!

Excellent Pulp Fiction reference!

[tactuppernut]

Everybody, I do apologize. I have in fact supplied incorrect legal information I attained from various sources online in 2007, as well as from the person who issued my c/c certification last year. I will elaborate:



Something is being overlooked here. We all have loved ones and extended family making these transactions as well. Not only is my chamber hot during the numerous CL transactions I've made previous to this, I insist upon "tagging along" with all other family transactor's potential deals as well, especially when larger $$ transactions may occur (cars, boy toys and so on). Gone so far as taking separate vehicles and lurking in the shadows before.
In regards to weapons in cars, CO dictates one loaded and concealed sidearm per vehicle-PDF linked to CO State Patrol website, now gone. Current info. is not PDF link, but on site, and DOES NOT EVEN SPECIFY HANDGUN CURRENTLY (only firearm)http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/StatePatrol-Main/CBON/1251594549010. An empty auto with a separately stored loaded mag. IS considered loaded-this I told by above mentioned instructor, and is untrue, chamber loaded correct. No loaded rifles', scatterguns or bazooka's-though apparently true,you wouldn't know it from reading above CSP link. Here's something interesting, I cannot find any code that addresses' revolver speed loaders, I.E., it seems to be even though an empty auto with a charged mag. inside of vehicle is considered to be a loaded weapon, an empty revolver with charged speed loader is not. Anybody know for sure?-already addressed, but raises new question. Is it considered loaded if hammers down on empty chamber, but rest are loaded?
Last thing, each local governing municipalities' are different. Laws in certain municipalities have been passed further restricting loaded sidearms inside of vehicles. City of Denver is the 1st that comes to mind-apparently outdated? even printed this link out in '07, whereas, at the time, it prohibited loaded weapons in Denver, but not Aurora. Now it's the opposite(#7)http://www.coloradoceasefire.org/munilaws.htm, where any loaded weapon inside of a vehicle is illegal (class 3 felony)-instructor(it is a misdemeanor) without a c/c permit. Charges are even more stringent within 500 feet of schools, various municipal buildings and so on-instructor. Most of us would look like doughnuts on legs by the we'd be paroled. No craigslist transactions in the city of Denver for me!
Did anybody know CO c/c permits are good in something like 18 other states? There's a list somewhere in cyberspace.-found a map(in '07 there were fewer)http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf
Did anybody know an Arizona drivers' license is good for 40 years and doubles as an AR c/c permit?-haven't check on that in a year,may have also changed. If it wasn't so ^&%&^$^% hot, I'd move there and save a few bucks(lived there between May-Oct 1 summer season,*&^*&% sucked ass!).
Lastly, I can't %&^$%$%^$ believe that stupid-ass pinhead retard wound commit multiple felonies over an IPhone, my vote is already cast for this years Darwin's award!!-as being an opinion, I stand by it!
I have searched the Co.gov website,CO ATF website, the CSP website, and every search engine I know for a link to Colorado's complete firearms' code section, along with Denver/Aurora, and can't find anything. Can somebody shoot me a link, or thread it here? Couldn't locate in '07 either. If I had, I wouldn't be blushing now.

I thank all involved for correcting me. I promise never to dictate legal code again without 1st currently researching through only proper channels.
I now must dig a hole to stick my head in.[Bang][Roll1][Dunno][Hang]

[tactuppernut]

Excellent Pulp Fiction reference!
Thanks, but I owe an apology to TFOGGER for that too, Sorry.

[Bailey Guns]

OK...fair enough.

But just to be clear, there's no restrictions in any municipality against having a handgun (loaded or unloaded, visible or concealed) in your vehicle, anywhere in the state. This is regulated by state statute and, as already mentioned, has been challenged in court and upheld.

Now, you can check this out:

33-6-125. Possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle. (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=query&iid=51102ea2.db91b27.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2733-6-125%27%5D)

Now, I have to be honest. I don't think there is any definition for "loaded" vs "unloaded" in Title 18 (the criminal code). It's been a while, so I may have forgotten where to look.

[alxone]

NICE!!!
the funny thing is , i do have a bazooka [Flower]

[TFOGGER]

Thanks, but I owe an apology to TFOGGER for that too, Sorry.

No worries [Beer]

Best info on current laws : Colorado Revised Statutes (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll/cocode/1?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0#)

also :http://www.handgunlaw.us/ and www.usacarry.com

[Lex_Luthor]

This is what I found:


18-12-204. Permit Contents - Validity - Carrying Requirements.
(3) (a) a person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed: (I) the handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense.

But does this mean that you have to be IN your car when acting in self-defense? Like ONLY if someone tried to carjack you at gunpoint? Or what if you were doing a Craigslist transaction like this guy was, in the general vicinity of your vehicle (not highlighted in the story, this is the hypothetical part), and just MAYBE you had the chance to pull your weapon out of your vehicle and use it to save your own life?

[cysoto]

But does this mean that you have to be IN your car when acting in self-defense? Like ONLY if someone tried to carjack you at gunpoint? Or what if you were doing a Craigslist transaction like this guy was, in the general vicinity of your vehicle (not highlighted in the story, this is the hypothetical part), and just MAYBE you had the chance to pull your weapon out of your vehicle and use it to save your own life?
That is precisely what I was hinting at on post no. 15... To the best of my knowledge, this law has never been brought up in a Colorado Court of Law and therefore there is no case law to fully answer your question.

If we adhere to the letter of the law, a person who is exercising his right to self-defense, needs to be within the confines of the vehicle. Again, the definition of what are the confines of your vehicle has never been challenged in Colorado but there is case law in our neighboring state of New Mexico where a judge ruled that, (and I am paraphrasing) "as long as you are within arms reach of your vehicle, you are considered to be 'in' your vehicle". This, of course, has absolutely no legal ramifications in our state but it could be used by the defense team to validate their defense. Whether a judge will side with them or not, is yet to be seen...

Is it confusing enough for you yet?!? [Muaha]

[Irving]

In order to stay within the law, your gun needs to stay inside your vehicle while carrying without a permit.

If you had to run to your car and get a gun to protect yourself, once the gun is out, it's not concealed anymore, and I can't see how it would matter if you have a CCW or not. However, once you get to the point of having a gun in your HAND, then things change. So, assuming there was some crazy scenario where you are able to run to your vehicle, dig around for your gun, then emerge again from your vehicle, ALL ON THE DEFENSIVE, then I'm not sure if it matters if you have a CCW or not. At that point you are brandishing and not carrying anyway. Clear as mud?

[alxone]

damn its all kinda dizzying , i guess ill keep the bazooka empty when i have a loaded gun in the car

[Ronin13]

damn its all kinda dizzying , i guess ill keep the bazooka empty when i have a loaded gun in the car

Well now this presents a problem for me... I keep an AT-4 at all times in my trunk, they're a 1-shot deal and are ALWAYS loaded. For that matter, the two LAWs on my running boards of my trucks put me in a sticky mess since they're 1-shot, fire and drop weapons.... How do we work around this? [LOL]

I'm no lawyer, but like was said before, once you pull your weapon from your console/glovebox/underseat/etc it is no longer concealed and thus is defined as a "exposed weapon" and using it for self defense falls into what a judge and jury decide for your fate. Pretty sure you getting robbed by a craigslist robber is a pretty good defense in court for making a would-be criminal a little more "holey." [Beer]