MP5 9mm clones

[islandermyk]

Since the day I thought about shooting cheaper ammo (22lr) I had my eyes on an MP5 I was first thinking about getting a .22lr and was pretty much determined to getting one. I posted a "Want to buy" MP5 .22lr on here and Ridge threw a monkey wrench in my plans, SOB [ROFL1] (Thanx Ridge[Beer])... Now I see that it is possible to purchase a 9mm version.
I see that you can buy and build one from Demilled HK MP5 kits, but for a starting price of $1600 and up without the receiver.
Then they have MP5 clones from coharie-arms, Special Weapons, Vector, MKE, etc.. that start from $1200 and up, and the internals are not HK parts, but are interchangeable with'em HK parts...
Does anyone here have any experience with these clones?
I would like to know if it would be worth saving up the money to just build one up off a Demilled HK kit or should I just go with a clone MP5 and just change out parts as time goes by?
I've been dwelling on this for sometime now, and I am really close to committing on buying a Cohaire-arms MP5 clone. Only thing stopping me now is that I'm really just waiting for Iron Ridge to respond to my email that I sent'em.
Here's a Coharie-arms MP5 on Gunsamerica that is actually the same model I'm leaning on getting.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/976048921/Guns/Rifles/Heckler-Koch-Rifles/Tactical/CA94_9mm_special_Limited_production_MP5_Hk_BW5_ONL Y_35_MADE_VERY_RAR.htm
So I need some help... Should I get this MP5 clone? Or should I just build one up? And why?
Thanks! [Beer]

[Gunner]

I would go 9mm for the cool factor and go SBR

[dmo]

I've had a lot of experience with this particular subject. I would definitely get a 9mm first.

I have bought a special weapons SW5 when they first came out. I still own that piece. Ive got a vector V53 .223 and a coharie arms (SP-89) MP5K clone. Ive also had an HK SP-89 with S&H auto sear. The .22s are pretty cool pieces but I prefer the real thing.

Here are some of my opinions. I know mine stink just like everybody elses.

If you have the money I would get an HK 94 first as it is a factory gun. Everything is going to run fine. Typically you will not have to fix anything.

Second choice would be to get an LSC flat and a factory MP5 parts kit. I would have Ralph at RDTS build it. He's one of the best at building and working on HKs. It is pricey to have it built but you will be getting a very nice piece. The reason I would go this route is all of the parts are factory german and in spec. He can also have the magwell of the factory HK put on the flat so you have a clone that looks and is marked like a factory piece. If thats important to you.

If you do get a clone (coharie, bobcat, special weapons, vector etc) plan on replacing the bolt carrier and bolt. When I first got my special weapons sw5 it was a hunk of crap. I spent so much money trying to get to run properly and look like a real mp5 that I could have bought an HK94. Every clone I get now the first thing I do is replace the bolt carrier group. They just seem to run better. German parts are becoming very expensive these days. RCM manufacturing is making a nice bolt carrier. I've got that in my coharie.

Hope this helps.

[islandermyk]

I've had a lot of experience with this particular subject. I would definitely get a 9mm first.

RCM manufacturing is making a nice bolt carrier. I've got that in my coharie.

Hope this helps.

Right on.. thanks for your insight on this subject. [Beer]

I'm not to worried about having the HK cosmetics done up... well not yet anyhow [Coffee] But I just want a nice 9mm platform to go shooting with. I figure it can also be a long term (2 to 5 years) project if I do decide to go out all HK parts with full-auto and such. [Tooth]

How different is your Coharie with what you put into it already compare to an actual HK MP5?

And by the looks of things... Does it look difficult to change out barrels on it? The Cohraie I'm looking at comes with a 16 inch barrel with the ca93 hanguard. I will eventually get an SBR tax stamp for the receiver and then turn it into a... hehehehe.. a lil fun one[Beer]

And with the ammo selection? No Walmart Winchester 9mm ammo? Does your Coharie have any troubles with ammo?

Man.. sorry for all the questions... I have more, but I think this would help me ease my mind a little... Thanks again! [Beer]

[dmo]

no such thing as to many questions right.

The coharie is pretty nice. It has the proper cocking tube support which some of the earlier clones didn't. The receiver is pretty nice thats one of the reasons I got one.

Ive shot 115 gr. ultramax ammo through with no problems. Once I changed out the bolt carrier group. I think the ammo were reloads but im not sure. Ive shot american eagle 147 gr out of my SW5 with gemtech raptor suppressor and they worked pretty good. (once again changed out the bolt carrier and bolt.) None of my clones like hollow point ammo at all. If you use a good brass cased round nose bullet you should be good. Most of the problems that occur with the clones are with failure to eject spent cartridges. Everyone advises against using winchester white box for some reason so I stay away from it.

If you're gonna sbr it, I would get a 3 lug german hammer forged barrel. A qualified gunsmith will have to do it as it requires a press to get it back in.

[dmo]

By the way. If you really want a cool piece. RDTS is offering a MP5SD built on a turkish MKE gun. The turkish guns are made using HK licensed machinery. RDTS builds some of the best SDs out there. Price is like 4000.00. Im saving my pennies to an SD at some point. Its a lot of scrilla but its pretty damn cool.

[islandermyk]

By the way. If you really want a cool piece. RDTS is offering a MP5SD built on a turkish MKE gun. The turkish guns are made using HK licensed machinery. RDTS builds some of the best SDs out there. Price is like 4000.00. Im saving my pennies to an SD at some point. Its a lot of scrilla but its pretty damn cool.

I saw this on Atlantic Arms http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct863.aspx

So between the 2 (Coharie and MKE) which one do you think I should go with?
My way of thinking is whatever I get... it will eat whatever I feed it [ROFL1] I'll let you know how them Winchesters perform when I get mine [Coffee]
Very good stuff [Beer]

[dmo]

If both are stock I would probably go with the coharie. The MKE has some different features that can limit you on modifying it later. I don't know what the differences are but I think the way the lower mounts. The MKE SD that RDTS is offering has some significant modifications. I think they had to make it a certain way to get them imported.

[islandermyk]

If both are stock I would probably go with the coharie. The MKE has some different features that can limit you on modifying it later. I don't know what the differences are but I think the way the lower mounts. The MKE SD that RDTS is offering has some significant modifications. I think they had to make it a certain way to get them imported.

Coharie it is... I thank you greatly for all that you've shared with me![Beer]
By the way... I'ma still gonna try out that Winchester Walmart ammo... I'll post a range report on that and share how it turns out when I get it. Thanks again! [Beer]

[oinco]

islandermyk, welcome to the darkside! I don't know if you stumbled across it- but the hkpro forum has quite a bit of info which may help you get a coharie/SW/BMP to run ok.

i think that dmo nailed it when he suggested get a real hk94 if the budget can be stretched- in the end (maybe not even that far down the road) it will be cheaper and an increasing value item vs a clone.

some have good luck with coharies, vectors, special weapons- but it does seem to be a game of figuring out what is out of spec and replacing it. i sold my coharies and sw's, keeping my vector and the hk's. I would also take a strong look at dakota tactical (hkparts stocks them) or have a very good builder build off of a flat and a parts kit.

from my observations, the builders with the best turnaround and quality seem to be rdts, dakota tactical, and pcs in no particular order. (possibly turner fab but idk?)

take a look at what a hk replacement bolt carrier, bolt head, ejector lever, extractor and locking piece costs and compare to what a very nice parts kit complete costs- all of a sudden a cheap clone can be as expensive or worse than the real thing.
esp if you get one with a crooked or out of spec cocking tube or the locking piece is wrong for your ammo and you dimple the receiver etc. etc.

I have run tons of wwb 9mm thru my 94- it is as dirty as (insert metaphor here) but makes holes in paper in pretty decent sized groups. favorite snack though is the hirtenberger L7A1.....try it- you'll like it.

[islandermyk]

islandermyk, welcome to the darkside! I don't know if you stumbled across it- but the hkpro forum has quite a bit of info which may help you get a coharie/SW/BMP to run ok.

i think that dmo nailed it when he suggested get a real hk94 if the budget can be stretched- in the end (maybe not even that far down the road) it will be cheaper and an increasing value item vs a clone.

some have good luck with coharies, vectors, special weapons- but it does seem to be a game of figuring out what is out of spec and replacing it. i sold my coharies and sw's, keeping my vector and the hk's. I would also take a strong look at dakota tactical (hkparts stocks them) or have a very good builder build off of a flat and a parts kit.

from my observations, the builders with the best turnaround and quality seem to be rdts, dakota tactical, and pcs in no particular order. (possibly turner fab but idk?)

take a look at what a hk replacement bolt carrier, bolt head, ejector lever, extractor and locking piece costs and compare to what a very nice parts kit complete costs- all of a sudden a cheap clone can be as expensive or worse than the real thing.
esp if you get one with a crooked or out of spec cocking tube or the locking piece is wrong for your ammo and you dimple the receiver etc. etc.

I have run tons of wwb 9mm thru my 94- it is as dirty as (insert metaphor here) but makes holes in paper in pretty decent sized groups. favorite snack though is the hirtenberger L7A1.....try it- you'll like it.

I never thought it would get any darker than building an AR, but hey.. thanks for the invite! [Beer]
I've searched and searched for ways to make this work...

If I do a HK MP5 build:
Parts Kit from $1600 and up
Flat receiver $200
Putting it all together... I don't know how much would it cost for a pro to build...

Buying a clone and adding HK parts:
I found a New Coharie CA94 through Tod Bailey/Wendy for $1060
Complete HK bolt group lowest $460 Full auto $823

Not really worried about increasing the value of the planned MP5 I'm getting... I just want a well functioning MP5... I'm expecting all kinds of failures pretty much like everything else from time to time, but hoping nothing catastrophic. I'm sure gonna enjoy shooting the heck out of it [UZI] nothing I will depend my life on.

Please tell me if I am missing something in my little list of things to make a clone MP5 work properly... so far this is what I'm looking at. I really appreciate all the info and really look forward to seeing what kind of :D this black soul-less rifle will bring me [Muaha]

Thanks again! [Beer]

[dmo]

Sounds like you have a good handle on what your going to spend. The labor to have one built is pretty high.

I would not have a problem getting a Coharie. See how it works out of the box. They have done a lot of upgrades since the clones were first introduced. If it works fine don't look back. If you do need to replace something you'll still be into it for about half of an HK 94. I really enjoy shooting my MP5s. Clones and original. I think they are one of the funnest guns to shoot. Let us know how it goes. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[islandermyk]

Sounds like you have a good handle on what your going to spend. The labor to have one built is pretty high.

I would not have a problem getting a Coharie. See how it works out of the box. They have done a lot of upgrades since the clones were first introduced. If it works fine don't look back. If you do need to replace something you'll still be into it for about half of an HK 94. I really enjoy shooting my MP5s. Clones and original. I think they are one of the funnest guns to shoot. Let us know how it goes. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[ROFL2][ROFL3] I think I know what I'm doing... this can make a person go crazy [LOL]
I went ahead and got the Coharie CA94 off Gunbroker. I believe it maybe one of the last ones they have on hand/built. From what I understand they will no longer build these clones... so I had to jump on that one. The funds are on their way by Friday. I'll get back with y'all when I get it on hand and shoot out a date on here when I take it out to shoot and maybe you guys would care to join me.
Thank you guys for all the awesome info and the emotional support and with the never ending drooling and wanting of an MP5 so bad [Beer]

[spyder]

If it was built by Todd and his groupies, good luck! [Beer] When it fails to eject every two and three rounds, don't go buy expensive Hk stuff, it is just the timing that his dipshits don't really care about. If by some miracle it works correctly, consider yourself lucky, very lucky.

[spyder]

... I believe it maybe one of the last ones they have on hand/built. From what I understand they will no longer build these clones...
They have been saying that for a little longer than a year now... At least since I have been buying MP5's anyway.

[islandermyk]

If it was built by Todd and his groupies, good luck! [Beer] When it fails to eject every two and three rounds, don't go buy expensive Hk stuff, it is just the timing that his dipshits don't really care about. If by some miracle it works correctly, consider yourself lucky, very lucky.

I figured before I take it out shooting I'ma have these parts installed first:
Extractor spring $10.00
Extractor (bolt head) $60.00
Ejector lever $50.00
Ejector lever spring $7.00
Hopefully that'll keep me out there shooting for a bit longer than anticipated... and I'm gonna try using'em Winchesters from Walmart for poops and giggles [Coffee]
I'm pleased about getting a cheap MP5 that shoots 9mm rounds. I know.. I know... you get what you pay for, but at least (I think) I would be able to polish this turd into something cool and fun. [Beer]


They have been saying that for a little longer than a year now... At least since I have been buying MP5's anyway.

I read a couple of forums that probably dated back to 2009 or something about their lawsuit with H&K, but I'm kinda convinced about it, cause I don't see any of their stuff available for sale anywhere. It's kinda weird though... I see names like Special Weapons, Vector, and Bob something that are building/making MP5... and I think they were/are associated with Coharie in some way... who knows...[Dunno]

[spyder]

I figured before I take it out shooting I'ma have these parts installed first:
Extractor spring $10.00
Extractor (bolt head) $60.00
Ejector lever $50.00
Ejector lever spring $7.00
Hopefully that'll keep me out there shooting for a bit longer than anticipated... and I'm gonna try using'em Winchesters from Walmart for poops and giggles [Coffee]
I'm pleased about getting a cheap MP5 that shoots 9mm rounds. I know.. I know... you get what you pay for, but at least (I think) I would be able to polish this turd into something cool and fun. [Beer]



I read a couple of forums that probably dated back to 2009 or something about their lawsuit with H&K, but I'm kinda convinced about it, cause I don't see any of their stuff available for sale anywhere. It's kinda weird though... I see names like Special Weapons, Vector, and Bob something that are building/making MP5... and I think they were/are associated with Coharie in some way... who knows...[Dunno]
The only ones that are associated with eachother are Special Weapons, and Cohaire. Vector was it's own private company out of Utah, all others came after. Vector made identicle receivers as Hk's and then got sued over it and put out of business. As it sits, Vector receivers are the best there are. Todd runs special weapons out of Mesa Arizona.

[islandermyk]

The only ones that are associated with eachother are Special Weapons, and Cohaire. Vector was it's own private company out of Utah, all others came after. Vector made identicle receivers as Hk's and then got sued over it and put out of business. As it sits, Vector receivers are the best there are. Todd runs special weapons out of Mesa Arizona.

Vector Arms is still building MP5's but twice the cost. Here's the link: http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct902.aspx
I'm guessing.. If Todd can't build MP5's under Coharie (which is under fire) Todd builds under Special Weapons, but MP5's only for LEO's. Their SW site is weird. Then there are BOBCAT, MKE, etc... and all cost close to or over $2000 for a build.
All in all... I think what I got will be a cool project and fun MP5 platform to mess with. [Tooth]

[spyder]

Vector did go out of business. I don't know when they came back online but I went to their site and saw that they have. I don't know if they are the original same owners or not either, what I do know is that they don't make the MP5 series anymore. The guns you saw at atlantic could be new old stock, new builds, or nice used guns. I still have three vector receivers I am sitting on because Todd's dumb ass won't send me the parts I have paid for (gunbroker) to finish them. All three of mine are within the first two hundred vector receivers to be punched out (new old stock). They are still out there in pieces if you can find them.

Here are my three still unfinished:
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/asrspyder/SANY0472.jpg

[spyder]

Vector Arms is still building MP5's but twice the cost. Here's the link: http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct902.aspx
I'm guessing.. If Todd can't build MP5's under Coharie (which is under fire) Todd builds under Special Weapons, but MP5's only for LEO's. Their SW site is weird. Then there are BOBCAT, MKE, etc... and all cost close to or over $2000 for a build.
All in all... I think what I got will be a cool project and fun MP5 platform to mess with. [Tooth]
Todd is a fucking idiot and so are all of the dipshits at that outfit. I have delt with them too many times to try to save money and will never do so again. I spend the money with Adam Webber at Hkparts.net now and have never had any problems what so ever. Todd has sent me used shit when I bought what was supposed to be new, then argued that it was no different and I shouldn't be complaining. He has sent me outright broken items, then asked if I could have someone fix the items for me before asking to send them back. I have had to deal with all sorts of shit like that, now I spend more money with Adam. Just a heads up. Oh, forgot to mention, still waiting on the correct parts and magazines Todd has yet to send me from a gunbroker purchase on feb. 28th of this year. Sorry about the Todd rant, I just hate the dick and that whole companies lack of business ethic.

No matter what you get, it will be able to run perfect with a little fine tuning, that won't be a problem (unless they pushed the barrel to far into the trunion, which they have done...). You don't need genuine Hk parts to run a semi auto perfectly.

[islandermyk]

Vector did go out of business. I don't know when they came back online but I went to their site and saw that they have. I don't know if they are the original same owners or not either, what I do know is that they don't make the MP5 series anymore. The guns you saw at atlantic could be new old stock, new builds, or nice used guns. I still have three vector receivers I am sitting on because Todd's dumb ass won't send me the parts I have paid for (gunbroker) to finish them. All three of mine are within the first two hundred vector receivers to be punched out (new old stock). They are still out there in pieces if you can find them.

Here are my three still unfinished:
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h403/asrspyder/SANY0472.jpg
[Wow2][Lick]... Uuuhh... can I touch it/them? [ROFL1]


Todd is a fucking idiot and so are all of the dipshits at that outfit. I have delt with them too many times to try to save money and will never do so again. I spend the money with Adam Webber at Hkparts.net now and have never had any problems what so ever. Todd has sent me used shit when I bought what was supposed to be new, then argued that it was no different and I shouldn't be complaining. He has sent me outright broken items, then asked if I could have someone fix the items for me before asking to send them back. I have had to deal with all sorts of shit like that, now I spend more money with Adam. Just a heads up. Oh, forgot to mention, still waiting on the correct parts and magazines Todd has yet to send me from a gunbroker purchase on feb. 28th of this year. Sorry about the Todd rant, I just hate the dick and that whole companies lack of business ethic.

No matter what you get, it will be able to run perfect with a little fine tuning, that won't be a problem (unless they pushed the barrel to far into the trunion, which they have done...). You don't need genuine Hk parts to run a semi auto perfectly.

Like you've stated before. It's a hit and miss... I guess both working with Todd and his MP5 clones. I've read all kinds of reviews about them (Todd and his MP5's, and his wife), and yep... more bad things than anything. I went for his MP5 cause it was up for auction at $1020... the cheapest by far I've seen anywhere, and was the last one too [Tooth]. I swore no loyalty to the clone maker (Todd), and I come to expect some problems with the MP5 I just got, and I did the math... as a long term project I think I will hit the $2000+ mark adding actual HK parts into the clone, but like what I said long term project... I wish to turn this thing full auto[Tooth].
But for this Todd guy... Don't know him.. don't really care for him. I'll have a local gunsmith like Iron Ridge mess with my MP5 if something I can't handle pops up. As for parts... HKParts.net looks like a nice place to go shopping for some new and used stuff.
Right on Spyder! Thanks for the heavy insight on things [Beer] Get your MP5's up and running and lets go shoot the piss out of'em[UZI]

[islandermyk]

Okay... back to the subject...
I should be getting my MP5 this weekend or so and was looking at parts accessories, and mags... I've figured out what I want to add on the thing, but what is killing me is the price tag on HK 30 round mags [Bang]
Does anyone have any good or bad info on these Asian/Korean/ATI 30 round curve mags, function, durability, etc...???
any info is good info and would be greatly appreciated [Flower]

Thanks [Beer]

[spyder]

The ones I had worked fine for me on all of my guns. The mag will not be an issue. As a matter of fact, I still have an extra mag if you would like to buy it for $20 shipped to you.

[islandermyk]

The ones I had worked fine for me on all of my guns. The mag will not be an issue. As a matter of fact, I still have an extra mag if you would like to buy it for $20 shipped to you.

Oh hell yeah! I'll take it!... uuhh... I don't get paid till the Oct 9th[Bang] I'll hit you up/PM you when I get some $$$$ on hand...

You mentioned "the mag wont be an issue"... should I have a hammer and chisel near by when I take it out shooting? [Coffee]

[spyder]

Oh hell yeah! I'll take it!... uuhh... I don't get paid till the Oct 9th[Bang] I'll hit you up/PM you when I get some $$$$ on hand...

You mentioned "the mag wont be an issue"... should I have a hammer and chisel near by when I take it out shooting? [Coffee]
Nah, the most common problem with clones is failure to eject. Hands down it is easily the first issue most have. Most of the time luckily, it is the last issue also. The quickest way without buying a bunch of parts and trying to fix everything, is just buy an german bolt head. I know I said you don't need new parts and bla bla bla earlier, but dropping a buck fifty (good find on GB) and then just installing the new head is so much easier. It also takes the worries out for later down the road if you spend ten thousand on a registered sear.

[islandermyk]

I finally got it!!! Now time to tear it down and get some parts and then take out shootin [Coffee]
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/HKs8.jpg

I'll follow up on the parts I add on and range update... hopefully soon..er [Beer]

[islandermyk]

SO I finally took it out... and you know what?
No failures [Coffee] No shit! [Beer]
Ran 200 rounds through her and not one failure... freaken accurate as hell, hardly any felt recoil. I shot Walmart 9mm ammo, Federals, and some other old stuff my buddy had lying around his house from the early 90's [ROFL1], and not one failure. I even tried a couple of mag dumps and she just kept on spittin away. Wish the trigger was a little lighter though...
Before I took her out (days ago) I tore it up and realized that the Bailey people had some internal HK parts in it already (Extractor and extractor spring).
It's hell'a fun to shoot. You could hear the rounds impact the targets.. I guess cause of the slower 9mm round... but all in all I really like it. Now just to get it SBR'd [Beer]

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/HK94CA94.jpg

[dmo]

Niiiice! Good to hear it ran fine. Looks like a very nice piece. SBR that baby ASAP!

[islandermyk]

SBR that baby ASAP!

I know... I know... [Beer] trying to save up $$$$ for the whole SBR process [Bang]