View Full Version : $25 Prison Visit Fee. Am I wrong?
Scanker19
09-12-2011, 19:30
http://news.yahoo.com/visitors-arizona-prisons-hit-25-fee-151547011.html
It seems that I am among a few that agrees with this. Who's weird here?
http://news.yahoo.com/visitors-arizona-prisons-hit-25-fee-151547011.html
It seems that I am among a few that agrees with this. Who's weird here?i dont have a problem with them charging for background checks on people who visit correctional facilities .
the government charging for what you already pay for via taxes!!!??
No way!
the government charging for what you already pay for via taxes!!!??
No way!if i have to pay every time i buy a gun (from an ffl),all they get is a one time fee . sorry but i dont see the problem .
mcantar18c
09-12-2011, 20:03
While I don't disagree with charging asshats to visit asshats... I don't see why they're charging for one thing and using the money for an unrelated thing, nor why they collect that money from 15 prisons and only send it back towards 10 (unless those 5 don't need it).
Scanker19
09-12-2011, 20:07
Those five are privately owned. Like the CCAs or whatever they are called in CO.
Fentonite
09-12-2011, 20:13
Makes sense to me. Call it a tax if you want, I like it. I don't visit criminals, and I don't want to subsidize those that do. You want to visit scum?, pay your own way.
(likewise, I dont expect Boulderites to pay for my admission to a gun show)
DD977GM2
09-12-2011, 20:34
My response
There should be an Amendment mandating money paid to the facility or state for ANY visitation to a prisoner. As a taxpayer who funds these facilities that hold these SCUMBAGS, aka CRIMINALS, this would be one less "burden" I would have to worry about being taxed on and feeling my money is just being thrown down the toilet. You commit a crime, TS for you and your family. Should have thought of the consequences before you raised a criminal and if you are a criminal.
Scanker19
09-12-2011, 21:09
Well the comments are against us.
While not a good judge of the vast difference in people, those morons have the capability to vote, which is scary.
I say they should pay. user fee. more guards, more electricity, more buildings, more cameras, more doors, more tables, more chairs, more security outside, more cement/asphalt and related maintenance etc etc etc.
call it a parking fee, not an admission or visitation fee, I don't care.
my only gripe is that the money should go to offset tax money received, maybe pay the guards salary or portion of it. anything to offset taxes. I want to see less and less taxes, less government.
Drilldov2.0
09-12-2011, 21:38
Excellent idea!
They should have to pay $25 to get in and $25 to get out each visit. Also the only road to the prison should be a toll road, with a booth every 25 feet.
I don't know anyone in jail or prison, but just knowing someone that is incarcerated is not a reason to have retarded taxes or fees implied on you.
That's the same as saying anyone dumb enough to live or work in Denver deserves to pay a $25 toll each way.
I don't have a problem with a visitor fee on a private prison, or even a government one, but bullshit fees are bullshit fees. Maybe they could sell a season pass.
Maybe they could sell a season pass.
or in some cases...do you think they can get a multi-family/person discount
I'm sure they could. There is all kinds of bundling they could do to make money.
Would the attorneys be exempt from these fees?
Send 'em to Angola or to Joe Arpaio. At some point prison became much more of a resort than a place of punishment.
Paying $25 to see someone in jail isn't really a big deal. It's not a right to go see a person in prison. I'm not sure why nobody charges the inmate for his room and board while he's in prison.
mcantar18c
09-12-2011, 22:01
That's the same as saying anyone dumb enough to live or work in Denver deserves to pay a $25 toll each way.
I would fully support this [Coffee]
I've noticed you really like making analogies.
strm_trpr
09-12-2011, 22:02
Good idea, I like it.
Scanker19
09-12-2011, 22:02
It's a one time fee, only for new prisoners, older ones are grandfathered in. (no pun). Sounds a lot like someone else's problem.
1) You do get charged to go to jail, I don't know about prison. It's not an even shake obviously, but you still do get charged.
2) Just because something isn't listed in the Constitution, doesn't mean that it is not a right. Just because something isn't a right, doesn't mean anyone has the right to deny it to you.
I would fully support this [Coffee]
I've noticed you really like making analogies.
It's how my brain works, I can't help it. I even bothers me sometimes.
Denver already charges people like the example that I gave, see my thread on the Denver Tax. 100% Bullshit.
the government does not need more money, no matter how much they whine that they do.
Fentonite
09-12-2011, 22:08
I pay taxes. Therefore, I already pay my "citizen's share" of the cost of incarcerating criminals. No problem, part of being in a society, and a good jail benefits all of society.
I don't see a problem with visitors paying for their own background check. When girlfriend goes to visit baby-daddy in jail, there's no societal benefit for which we should all pay. It's an optional, personal, glass-smearing moment between criminal and skank, and they should pay for it themselves.
Besides, I'd bet that the majority of jail visitors are actually net tax recipients, and haven't actually contributed one iota to the cost of providing shelter, food, clothing, rehabilitation, medical care, cable TV, gym equipment, etc. to their beloved convicts. They can at least pay for the background check that's required for their elective visit.
Drilldov2.0
09-12-2011, 22:15
I don't know anyone in jail or prison, but just knowing someone that is incarcerated is not a reason to have retarded taxes or fees implied on you.
That's the same as saying anyone dumb enough to live or work in Denver deserves to pay a $25 toll each way.
I don't have a problem with a visitor fee on a private prison, or even a government one, but bullshit fees are bullshit fees. Maybe they could sell a season pass.
Well no, it isn't. One is a crime which taxpayers pay for and one is a choice. It isn't a tax either btw. It is no different than having to pay to get into a amusement park. You don't want to pay? Don't go there.
trout_champ
09-12-2011, 22:37
Hell, I say charge them $50 bucks a pop.
Randy
Going to visit a prisoner is not a crime, it is a choice.
mcantar18c
09-12-2011, 23:22
Going to visit a prisoner is not a crime, it is a choice.
Nor is it a right...
Like I said, I agree with the idea, just not so much with the use of funds.
So in essence, if this policy results in delaying or diminishing or eliminating prison visitation for anyone, the state is shooting themselves in the foot in terms of rehabilitation,"
Anyone who believes that A) Our prisons are taking a rehabilitative approach or that B) It actually works anyway is in for a rude awakening.
Nor is it a right...
Like I said, I agree with the idea, just not so much with the use of funds.
Define what is a right please.
mcantar18c
09-12-2011, 23:42
Define what is a right please.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Definitions and examples off the top of my head...
Life: Right to live and to defend life... be it yours or others.
-2A
Liberty: Right to live and act as a free man.
-1A
-13A
Pursuit of Happiness: Right to do as you please as long as you don't infringe upon the right's of others.
-21A
Right: Driving your car.
Privilege: Driving your car on public roads.
Right: Getting hammered.
Privilege (that is not granted): Getting hammered, then driving your car on public roads.
Right: Visiting other free men.
Privilege: Visiting gov't proprty (i.e. prisoners... that is what they are after all).
DD977GM2
09-12-2011, 23:43
Inmates are charged a certain amount each month for their cell, food and clothing from what I understand.
Unfortunatly my BIL was in Fremont down near Canyon City for awhile for a really BS reason (another thread) and I gave him money as did my Dad and Sister to help pay for things there and also to pay for his fees there for being there.
He worked in laundry I think and made something like $12.00 a month or every 2 weeks, I forget, after he paid his monthly room and board so to speak.
Even when my Sis went and visited him, I still wouldnt be against this fee for her to visit him, but I think she visited him a dozen times in 4 years. I dont remember, just remember doing all I could to raise my nephew during that time.
Going to visit a prisoner is not a crime, it is a choice.
Just a hypothetical question to understand your point of view...
If someone invites you to a BBQ at their home, do you ever offer to pitch in, or bring something? Or, do you think that since you were invited you aren't obligated to contribute?
Drilldov2.0
09-12-2011, 23:52
Define what is a right please.
Apparently, it is something prisoners have to be able to sue over things like cable tv and desserts at mess.
jrdale84
09-12-2011, 23:55
I disagree with it for multiple reasons. First, you are charging tax paying citizens to fund things the "fee" isnt for. Second just because someone is in prison doesn't give us the right to automatically assume they are evil people or "asshats" - I say this because if I put the same sort of "system" in place in something we all hold dear we would complain loudly. For example:
From now on to carry a firearm onto public land you will have to pay a $60 one time fee per year and additionally if you cross over state lines and return into the boundaries of Colorado you must again pay. This will ensure that those who own firearms after purchase continue to meet passing background checks. The money collected will pay not only for the $10 check but also the Boulder Rifle Club and help fund the Coloradoans Against Gun Violence & Ownership program.
Now everyone here would be quick to argue that its their second amendment right to carry a firearm however isnt it also a right to visit your family? The people being penalized here are not criminals, they are citizens like you and me.
DD977GM2
09-12-2011, 23:55
Anyone who believes that A) Our prisons are taking a rehabilitative approach or that B) It actually works anyway is in for a rude awakening.
I agree 100% with you, there are exceptions to the rule in some cases, I personally know 2 cases.
My Brother in law, good man, had a job right out of the gate and has steadily gone up the ladder there, is a Mason and is a good family man and husband.
One of my good buddies, he is a Production Manager for a stone veneer company and once he got out, he has worked his ass of and is a productive member of society and can depend on him for just about anything.
I used to work for the stone veneer company, they are right by a half way house and they pull a lot of labor from them since its walking distance for them I gave 5 guys a shot at being my forklift mechanic or mechanics helper ( I was stupidvisor for maintenance for a year) and I ended up firing all 5 within the first month and had to depend on my buddy mentioned above to help me on weekend with repairs when the plant was shut down. He was the batch maker at the time and I taught him a shitload and used it to move up in the company.
DD977GM2
09-13-2011, 00:04
I disagree with it for multiple reasons. First, you are charging tax paying citizens to fund things the "fee" isnt for. Second just because someone is in prison doesn't give us the right to automatically assume they are evil people or "asshats" - I say this because if I put the same sort of "system" in place in something we all hold dear we would complain loudly. For example:
From now on to carry a firearm onto public land you will have to pay a $60 one time fee per year and additionally if you cross over state lines and return into the boundaries of Colorado you must again pay. This will ensure that those who own firearms after purchase continue to meet passing background checks. The money collected will pay not only for the $10 check but also the Boulder Rifle Club and help fund the Coloradoans Against Gun Violence & Ownership program.
Now everyone here would be quick to argue that its their second amendment right to carry a firearm however isnt it also a right to visit your family? The people being penalized here are not criminals, they are citizens like you and me.
As a gun owner though, 99.99% of us are law abiding citizens and have never done anything to be put into jail nor ever will. Kinda Aplles to oranges.
Charging the POS girlfriend to see her POS BF who robbed some convenience store and shot and paralyzed the shopkeeper over $80 doesnt have ANY RIGHTS IMHO, and to visit said POS, all should have to pay for his heinous act for $80.
Or some drug dealer caught on video "curbing" his competion and now doing 25 to life and his momma wants to visit, she needs to pay since she obviously didnt do a good enough job of raising her curbing son , who knows, maybe she was buy his dope he was selling.
I think it is a justified price for those wanting to visit any criminal.
Mcantar, not all prisons are government owned. Are the only rights, those that are mentioned in the Constitution, or are there more?
Just a hypothetical question to understand your point of view...
If someone invites you to a BBQ at their home, do you ever offer to pitch in, or bring something? Or, do you think that since you were invited you aren't obligated to contribute?
I offer to pitch in.
I'm in this discussion, because people keep mentioning what trash prisoners are, then turning around and saying how the people visiting them are the ones who need to be punished.
I'm in the "the government does not need any more money" camp. Punishing offenders is a HUGE industry, and it shouldn't be that way. But that is a topic for another thread.
What about a kid wanting to visit a parent? How are the imprisoned parent's actions the kids fault?
Drilldov2.0
09-13-2011, 00:05
I disagree with it for multiple reasons. First, you are charging tax paying citizens to fund things the "fee" isnt for. Second just because someone is in prison doesn't give us the right to automatically assume they are evil people or "asshats" - I say this because if I put the same sort of "system" in place in something we all hold dear we would complain loudly. For example:
From now on to carry a firearm onto public land you will have to pay a $60 one time fee per year and additionally if you cross over state lines and return into the boundaries of Colorado you must again pay. This will ensure that those who own firearms after purchase continue to meet passing background checks. The money collected will pay not only for the $10 check but also the Boulder Rifle Club and help fund the Coloradoans Against Gun Violence & Ownership program.
Now everyone here would be quick to argue that its their second amendment right to carry a firearm however isnt it also a right to visit your family? The people being penalized here are not criminals, they are citizens like you and me.
WRONG. the people being punished are the criminals. Not being able to see family is another punishment. If the family wants to visit, they have to pay. And the admission fee should go toward running the prison and repaying the inmate's restitution etc.
mcantar18c
09-13-2011, 00:10
however isnt it also a right to visit your family?
Yes... as long as your family isn't state/federal property.
See my previous post.
mcantar18c
09-13-2011, 00:15
Mcantar, not all prisons are government owned. Are the only rights, those that are mentioned in the Constitution, or are there more?
I offer to pitch in.
I'm in this discussion, because people keep mentioning what trash prisoners are, then turning around and saying how the people visiting them are the ones who need to be punished.
I'm in the "the government does not need any more money" camp. Punishing offenders is a HUGE industry, and it shouldn't be that way. But that is a topic for another thread.
What about a kid wanting to visit a parent? How are the imprisoned parent's actions the kids fault?
I can't think of any true rights that aren't protected by the Constitution.
On the subject of a child visiting a parent in prison. I would argue that having been deemed unfit to exist among society, and hence being locked up, they are clearly unfit to raise a child, and by committing a crime have forfeited the right to do so.
as gun owners and carriers we are all a breath away from being labeled criminals by the state.
I am against the government getting more money for anything. not because there are no legitimate needs, but because there is never an end to government desire for money.
it will never be enough, and they will keep taking until the people revolt.
and it frightens me that so many are so supportive of government greed.
I can't think of any true rights that aren't protected by the Constitution.
On the subject of a child visiting a parent in prison. I would argue that having been deemed unfit to exist among society, and hence being locked up, they are clearly unfit to raise a child, and by committing a crime have forfeited the right to do so.
I said kid, not child. No one can raise a child from prison, but it's pretty hard to argue that a 12 year-old, or an adult 35 year-old visiting a parent in for life, is some how responsible for the actions of the parent.
I'm in this discussion, because people keep mentioning what trash prisoners are, then turning around and saying how the people visiting them are the ones who need to be punished.
I'm not going to judge the people in prison for their actions and call them trash, but I will say they knew what the consequences were when they committed the crime (hopefully) and it doesn't sound unfair to ask them to pay their own debt. They voluntarily committed crimes and gave up their rights by their own free will.
I'm in the "the government does not need any more money" camp. Punishing offenders is a HUGE industry, and it shouldn't be that way. But that is a topic for another thread.
Who pays the bills for the industry? It would be nice to see the prisoner or person visiting them pitching in, not the government.
I have to pay to go to the museum or the zoo, it doesn't kill me. I'm happy I have the right to spend my money where I choose. If I don't want to pay the money, I just don't go.
What about a kid wanting to visit a parent? How are the imprisoned parent's actions the kids fault?
So should we let the prisoners out so they can raise their children, or do we let the kids go stay with them in the prison? The inmate took it upon themselves to ruin their lives. If it was important to raise their children they wouldn't have gotten locked up in the first place.
With the MASSIVE amount of people locked up in prisons all over the country that are not contributing to society, why not put them to work?
Outlaw, you are misinterpreting my responses to other people's questions/comments.
What I said about children, was in response to someone else saying that the parents of the prisoner should be punished because it is obviously their own fault for raising them poorly. This cannot apply to children. I was bringing up an example of a situation that does not fit the line of thinking that everyone who knows, and may choose to visit, a prisoner is some how responsible for them being there.
Go ahead and just ignore my comments about punishment turning into an industry as well. You completely missed what I meant by that, and again, that is an entirely different topic for a different thread. I don't know that it applies here, but I have a feeling that it does to some extent. Applies to prisoners in general, not this particular thread topic.
mcantar18c
09-13-2011, 00:50
A 12 year old doesn't have rights. Right or wrong, that's the law. Also, he's at a highly impressionable stage in life. No need to subject him to a convict trying to tell him that whatever crime he committed was somehow justified.
A 35yo visiting a lifer... well, he's an adult, he can do as he pleases.
I agree 100% with you, there are exceptions to the rule in some cases, I personally know 2 cases.
My Brother in law, good man, had a job right out of the gate and has steadily gone up the ladder there, is a Mason and is a good family man and husband.
One of my good buddies, he is a Production Manager for a stone veneer company and once he got out, he has worked his ass of and is a productive member of society and can depend on him for just about anything.
I used to work for the stone veneer company, they are right by a half way house and they pull a lot of labor from them since its walking distance for them I gave 5 guys a shot at being my forklift mechanic or mechanics helper ( I was stupidvisor for maintenance for a year) and I ended up firing all 5 within the first month and had to depend on my buddy mentioned above to help me on weekend with repairs when the plant was shut down. He was the batch maker at the time and I taught him a shitload and used it to move up in the company.
Oh sure there's exceptions to the rule, I know a few myself. But on the whole, the entire system is out of whack.
Anyway, don't mean to derail the thread. I just can't stand it when people refer to our prison system as "rehabilitative."
A 12 year old doesn't have rights. Right or wrong, that's the law. Also, he's at a highly impressionable stage in life. No need to subject him to a convict trying to tell him that whatever crime he committed was somehow justified.
A 35yo visiting a lifer... well, he's an adult, he can do as he pleases.
You're mixing up my point about kids just like Outlaw. See my response to him.
mcantar18c
09-13-2011, 01:34
I think I get what you're saying. A 12yo kid isn't responsible for his parent's actions and so he shouldn't be punished for them by not being allowed to visit his father. Correct?
What I'm saying is that a 12yo kid is a minor and does not have the rights that go along with being a legal adult. So no, he does not have a right to see him, for that reason and those which I previously listed.
Byte Stryke
09-13-2011, 07:05
all of this noise over a one time background check.
[Eek3]
society needs an enema.
AirbornePathogen
09-13-2011, 19:58
I've had to pay background check fees for buying a gun (gun show way back when), and getting my CCW. If you know someone who's incarcerated, nobody says you HAVE to visit them, send them money, pay their legal fees, etc. IMHO, where's the problem here?
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