View Full Version : Two flights get fighter escort on Sunday
hollohas
09-14-2011, 13:01
Did you guys hear about this? Very interesting that I haven't seen anything about these fighter escorts on the national news.
http://www.9news.com/news/article/219223/188/Woman-shocked-by-being-taken-from-plane-in-Detroit
Authorities say fighter jets escorted the Denver-to-Detroit Frontier Airlines flight after its crew reported that two people were spending a long time in a bathroom - the two men sitting next to Hebshi in the 12th row.
The flight was one of two for which fighter jets were scrambled Sunday after crews reported suspicious activity on Sunday, officials said. In both cases, it involved bathroom use. In neither case did authorities find anything to substantiate the suspicions.
Saw that on Yahoo, and she complained that she felt like her rights were violated:
They asked her questions and she was strip searched by a female FBI agent. Not once, but twice did they apologize for any inconvenience and thanked her for her cooperation. So lesson learned, don't go to the bathroom on an airplane, do your business at the terminal.
Shoshana Hebshi, 35, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Tuesday that she believes she was targeted because of her Middle Eastern appearance. Hebshi, who describes herself as half-Arabic, half-Jewish with a dark complexion, said she endured nearly four hours in police custody that included being forced off an airplane in handcuffs, strip-searched and interrogated.
To bad. Don't fly on 9/11 and do weird stuff that would draw attention to yourself. Dumbass!
hollohas
09-14-2011, 13:11
I just think it would have been big news that domestic flights got fighter escorts...seems like everyone handled it professionally.
I actually like the fact that the flight crews were paying attention close enough to feel like something was suspicious and called it in. Good for them.
Edit: I fly Frontier every week. They must encourage their flight crews to do this so one more "good job" from Hollohas.
Wear a diaper and shit in your pants.
Weird stuff? One of them was puking his guts out.. the other just got up when the one was getting sick to do his business..
They were Indian. Brown people going to the bathroom on 9/11 oh NOS!
She happened to be brown and sitting between them..
No profiling there at all.
In all truthfulness I'm glad to see it..
Works pretty well for the Israelis.
I did catch that on the news the other day.
Bailey Guns
09-14-2011, 13:18
Yeah? Well all of the 9/11 hijackers were brown, too. Too fuckin' bad. In this day and age I have to put up with a lot of shit just because I choose to fly.
If you're brown and a flight crew thinks you're suspicious for whatever reason and you have to be inconvenienced a bit, tough shit. Deal with it.
hollohas
09-14-2011, 13:22
I do agree with flight crews calling in suspicious activity and authorities subsequently questioning people. But if a strip search was done that was out of line in this case.
But overall a good job IMO. Less TSA and more of this type of prevention is fine by me.
Too long in bathroom = trip to strip search town??? I guess the "Mile High Club" won't be accepting any more members...darn.
Reminds me of the Hangover:
Alan Garner: Gambling? Who said anything about gambling? It's not gambling when you know you're gonna win. Counting cards is a foolproof system.
Stu Price: It's also illegal.
Alan Garner: It's not illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.
Phil Wenneck: I'm pretty sure that's illegal too.
Alan Garner: Yeah, maybe after 9/11, where everybody got so sensitive. Thanks a lot, bin Laden.
If I'm on an airplane, I dearly hope there is some serious amounts of profiling going on before we leave the gate.
Scanker19
09-14-2011, 13:35
So we should stop every white guy driving a Ryder truck to check for ANFO? People are too paranoid. Jesus fucking Christ.
I guess the "Mile High Club" won't be accepting any more members...darn.
Don't pretend it takes you a long time..
Bailey Guns
09-14-2011, 14:00
So we should stop every white guy driving a Ryder truck to check for ANFO? People are too paranoid. Jesus fucking Christ.
Besides that being a really poor analogy, that wasn't the point.
The point is, you shouldn't get special treatment because you are brown, or Muslim, or whatever. We're all inconvenienced these days, especially in airports, through no fault of our own.
If you're a Muslim or you're "brown", get your Imams and mosques to stop teaching hate and killing as a way to further your religion. When Muslims, who are for the most part "brown", stop killing people and blowing up buildings with airplanes, I'll have a little sympathy for them if they're improperly singled out.
So we should stop every white guy driving a Ryder truck to check for ANFO? People are too paranoid. Jesus fucking Christ.
My wife just returned from a five week business trip to an Islamic country. I asked her to please avoid drawing undo attention to herself or spending too much time in areas frequented mainly by Westerners while there as being an American in many parts of the world isn't too popular these days. Was I being paranoid? I don't give a flying fuck if it's perceived that way, I wanted my wife back alive! (and yes, I've lived decades in third world countries, I'm not someone for whom the nightly news shapes my worldview).
An Arab/Jew, who admits that her complexion likely drew attention to herself on that flight decides on the 10th anniversary of 9/11 to spend more time than some felt adequate in the airplane lavatory. Her spending some time after the flight getting cleared to go on her merry way doesn't bother me one little bit.
I'm white. I do not go for long strolls in Watts at midnight alone. Is that paranoid or do some facets of common sense ever enter the equation? :rolleyes:
hollohas
09-14-2011, 14:20
Don't pretend it takes you a long time..
Ha! I'm suprised it took that long for someone to say that! [Beer]
The rest of you must be working too hard today to pass up that setup...
clublights
09-14-2011, 14:25
An Arab/Jew, who admits that her complexion likely drew attention to herself on that flight decides on the 10th anniversary of 9/11 to spend more time than some felt adequate in the airplane lavatory. Her spending some time after the flight getting cleared to go on her merry way doesn't bother me one little bit.
Apparently you need to spend more time on reading comprehension ....
I'm gunna type it in all caps so that a few others can get this too ....
ALL SHE DID WAS HAVE BROWN SKIN AND SIT IN THE SAME ROW AS THESE OTHER TWO PEOPLE.
THAT'S FUCKED UP.
She didn't pick her skin color.. she didn't pick her seat assignment.
I'd be ok if ( at least according to her timeline of the events) they questioned her then realized there was not a real problem.. instead they strip searched her .. THEN questioned her.
The cops/TSA really jumped the gun so say and went to far too fast. Jordans right... too fucking paranoid.....
brokenscout
09-14-2011, 14:28
I'm a white guy and the TSA sucks ass. They should go to Israel and check out there security. Its way better, and they don't mess with your shoes.
Wear a diaper and shit in your pants.
This is my advice. I am waiting for the day where you have to pay to use the overhead bin, pay to use the bathroom, pay to recline your seat.
People want to find the cheapest tickets possible which is understandable, but they also don't think about what kind of service they are getting and what it would cost them if they had to drive and the amount of time they would lose.
as to the article, I'm glad they questioned her. I have had a woman spend almost 1.5 hours in a lav before making lots of noise. she ended up coming out and was extremely sick...had she alerted us ahead of time we could have diverted to get her help but she just stayed in their, miserable and forced everyone else to wait, luckily all with success.
I have flown with a guy who a long time ago had a flight attendant come one day to work and flew as a man, then next morning he was a woman and worked as a woman
hollohas
09-14-2011, 14:31
Apparently you need to spend more time on reading comprehension ....
Lowest SAT reading scores EVER (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/14/sat-reading-scores-fall-to-lowest-level-on-record/?test=latestnews)
Sorry, derailed my own thread...
Lex_Luthor
09-14-2011, 14:35
If she was an exotic hottie and if the TSA woman was a lesbian, I'd strip search her too. [Coffee]
Scanker19
09-14-2011, 14:35
The problem is that we (americans) are to fucking stupid to know the difference between Muslims, Indians, mexicans, hairy white people who fell asleep in the sun etc...
The problem becomes where does it stop? When does the profiling stop? Terrorism, Murders, jaywalking, who is exempt? Will people be mad when they are inconvenienced when another John Walker Lindh wanna be hijacks a plane and we have to give extra attention to white people?
We are so crazy and paranoid we forget who we are. Of course our country was founded on a lot of discrimination so maybe we aren't so different now.
hollohas
09-14-2011, 14:48
The problem is that we (americans) are to fucking stupid to know the difference between Muslims, Indians, mexicans, hairy white people who fell asleep in the sun etc...
The problem becomes where does it stop? When does the profiling stop? Terrorism, Murders, jaywalking, who is exempt? Will people be mad when they are inconvenienced when another John Walker Lindh wanna be hijacks a plane and we have to give extra attention to white people?
We are so crazy and paranoid we forget who we are. Of course our country was founded on a lot of discrimination so maybe we aren't so different now.
I saw an interview from two tickets agents that checked in a couple of the BGs on 9/11. Both said they had red flags go up...one ticket agent even started to follow the BG to security to tip off the security agents that the guy seemed off but he decided against it because he didn't want to be seen as racist. Too bad these two ticket agents didn't listen to their guts...
I think we all agree that the TSA has far over-stepped its bonds and is directly breaking our right to not be searched without a warrant (pat downs, virtual strip searches, etc.)
We do however need some sort of security and that security should be based on a threat assessment of where danger may come from. Currently, that danger comes from extreme Muslims. That's a fact. Maybe we wouldn't need the law breaking TSA if more people didn't perpetually live in condition white. If we all lived in condition yellow, like we should and like apparently these good flight crews were, then we would have an extremely effective "security" system by the people for the people IMO. Nothing wrong with focusing security on where the threat will most likely come from.
Strip search on her…too far. Taking her off the flight to question her, fine by me.
Israel
El Al (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al#Security) Airlines is headquartered in Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel). The last hijacking occurred (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al#Hijacking) on July 23, 1969,[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-A-18) and no plane departing Ben Gurion Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_Airport), just outside Tel Aviv (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv), has ever been hijacked.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-19)
It was in 1972 that terrorists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorists) from the Japanese Red Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Red_Army) launched an attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lod_Airport_Massacre) that led to the deaths of at least 24 people at Ben Gurion. Since then, security at the airport relies on a number of fundamentals, including a heavy focus on what Raphael Ron, former director of security at Ben Gurion, terms the "human factor", which may be generalized as "the inescapable fact that terrorist attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_attack) are carried out by people who can be found and stopped by an effective security methodology."[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-B-20)
On December 27, 1985, terrorists simultaneously attacked El Al ticket counters at the Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome,_Italy), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) and Vienna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna,_Austria), Austria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria) airports using machine guns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun) and hand grenades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade). Nineteen civilians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian) were killed and many wounded. In response, Israel developed further methods to stop such massacres and drastically improved security measures around Israeli airports and even promised to provide plainclothes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plainclothes) armed guards at each foreign airport.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-silly-21) The last successful airline-related terrorist attack was in 1986, when a security agent found a suitcase full of explosives during the initial screening process. While the bag did not make it on board, it did injure 13 after detonating in the terminal.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-silly-21)
As part of its focus on this so-called "human factor," Israeli security officers interrogate travelers using racial profiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_profiling), singling out those who appear to be Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) based on name or physical appearance.[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-22) Additionally, all passengers, even those who do not appear to be of Arab descent, are questioned as to why they are traveling to Israel, followed by several general questions about the trip in order to search for inconsistencies.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-A-18) Although numerous civil rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights) groups have demanded an end to the profiling, Israel maintains that it is both effective and unavoidable. As stated by Ariel Merari, an Israeli terrorism expert, "it would be foolish not to use profiling when everyone knows that most terrorists come from certain ethnic groups. They are likely to be Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim) and young, and the potential threat justifies inconveniencing a certain ethnic group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group)."[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-23)
Passengers leaving Israel are checked against a computerized list. The computers, maintained by the Israeli Ministry of Interior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Ministry_of_Interior), are connected to the Israeli police (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_police) and Interpol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol) in order to catch suspects or others leaving the country illegally.[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-24)
Despite such tight security, an incident occurred on November 17, 2002 in which a man apparently slipped through airport security at Ben Gurion Airport with a pocketknife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocketknife) and attempted to storm the cockpit of El Al (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al) Flight 581 en route from Tel Aviv to Istanbul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul), Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey). While no injuries were reported and the attacker was subdued by guards hidden among the passengers 15 minutes before the plane landed safely in Turkey, authorities did shut down Ben Gurion for some time after the attack to reassess the security situation and an investigation was opened to determine how the man, an Israeli Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arab), managed to smuggle the knife past the airport security.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-25)
At a conference in May 2008, the United States Department of Homeland Security (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Homeland_Security) Secretary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Homeland_Security) Michael Chertoff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff) told Reuters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuters) interviewers that the United States will seek to adopt some of the Israeli security measures at domestic airports. He left his post in January 2009, a mere 6 months after this statement, which may or may not have been enough time to implement them.[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-26)
On a more limited focus, American airports have been turning to the Israeli government and Israeli-run firms to help upgrade security in the post-9/11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks) world. Israeli officials toured Los Angeles Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Airport) in November 2008 to re-evaluate the airport after making security upgrade recommendations in 2006, and Ron's company, New Age Security Solutions, based in Washington, D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_D.C.), consults on aviation security at Boston's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston) Logan International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_International_Airport).[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-B-20)[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-27) Calling Ben Gurion "the world’s safest airport," Antonio Villaraigosa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Villaraigosa), mayor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor_of_Los_Angeles,_California) of Los Angeles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles), has implemented the Israeli review in order to bring state-of-the-art technology and other tactical measures to help secure LAX, considered to be the state’s primary terrorist target and singled out by the Al Qaeda network.[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-28)
Other U.S. airports to incorporate Israeli tactics and systems include Port of Oakland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Oakland) and the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Airport). "The Israelis are legendary for their security, and this is an opportunity to see firsthand what they do, how they do it and, as importantly, the theory behind it," said Steven Grossman, director of aviation at the Port of Oakland. He was so impressed with a briefing presented by the Israelis that he suggested a trip to Israel to the U.S. branch of Airports Council International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airports_Council_International) in order to gain a deeper understanding of the methods employed by Israeli airport security and law enforcement.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#cite_note-29)
I added bold for emphasis.
clublights
09-14-2011, 17:01
I get what your sayin Tfogg...
I even agree with it .. to a point.
I however think we need to find a slightly better middle ground.
I think what has me the most pissed off is with basically ZERO PC ( and that means probable cause here kids) they strip searched her.
Sure ask her to come along to answer a few questions..I get that... and hell run her thru a couple metal detecters... maybe a body scanner or two . ( tho those are border line.. nothing more then she would have to do to get on the plane in the first place so it's .. even steven all in all I guess) I get that....
but to yank her off the plane.. strip search her .. then ask questions .. just cuz of where she sat and what color she is... that's not America.
Doesn't that mean the terrorist's win ? When we stop being the USA ?
Byte Stryke
09-14-2011, 17:17
Yeah? Well all of the 9/11 hijackers were brown, too. Too fuckin' bad. In this day and age I have to put up with a lot of shit just because I choose to fly.
If you're brown and a flight crew thinks you're suspicious for whatever reason and you have to be inconvenienced a bit, tough shit. Deal with it.
Agreed, we will have people at your house rifling your shit soon because of crimes committed by cantankerous old white Fuckers.
[ROFL1]
I think its a knee-jerk reaction by people that expect the nanny-state to make us safe...
even against brown people pooping
I think her being questioned because of her skin color was all in her own head. They didn't do that to every brown or black person on the plane. Just her and maybe her seat mates. But the strip search and questioning could have very well been because of her behavior and the fact that past terrorists have hidden bombs just about anywhere nobody looks. That is learning from past mistakes. Not racial profiling.
clublights
09-14-2011, 18:06
I think her being questioned because of her skin color was all in her own head. They didn't do that to every brown or black person on the plane. Just her and maybe her seat mates. But the strip search and questioning could have very well been because of her behavior and the fact that past terrorists have hidden bombs just about anywhere nobody looks. That is learning from past mistakes. Not racial profiling.
AFTER the plane lands in Detroit............
Pretty piss poor terrorist if she can't even mange to blow up the plane .
Fine take the skin color out of it ..............
your saying that it is ok to yank some one out of the plane .. after it makes it to it's destination ... and strip search em ??
how about if your just cruising along in the light rail .... it's crowded .. the guy you happen to sit next to ( since it was the only seat ) is acting .. odd... so your fellow passengers call up the coppers... and they yank you off the train too .. then strip search you . 9then ask you questions... thats all good in your book ?
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