School the noob: AK74 handling/setup

[rustycrusty]

Hi All!

New to the forums, and new to the world of rifles. I shoot a lot of 9mm pistol every month for about a year now, and sometimes (rarely) shoot a 10/22- maybe 100rnds/mo- so you guys can understand that I am slightly lost on how to go about learning to use my newest acquisition- an AK74.

My first question is what mount position is working best for you on your system? I have seen 3 different locations for a 2 point sling to mount on or near the stock. I just relocated my attachment as close as possible to the pistol grip while still being attached to the wood stock (a mount i have seen on several other AK rifles). The original position had it located on the bottom, and very close to the butt plate. I have also seen them toward the butt plate but on the left side of the gun near the bottom.

I moved the sling attachment forward and to the left side because i was having a lot of trouble with the sling getting pinched and tangled between my shoulder and the gun when raising to fire it from a shoulder slung position. The fix seems to have solved that, but now the stock isn't held to my body tightly when the gun is left to hang around my shoulder. Is this a problem?

Second issue: sights
I am very accustomed to using a peep sight for a rifle. Don't know how, but I can shoot groups 1/5 the size using a peep sighted .22 rather than an open sighted one. For this reason I want to peep sight/ghost ring the AK. I am set on the Krebs rear sight replacement because i am hooked on the cool factor of maintaining the original distance adjustments and design of the stock AK. Does anyone have any feedback on shooting longer distances with this style of sight? I laugh at myself while I say this, but I would like to shoot the appleseed program with this rifle and the Krebs ghost ring. This means I need it to touch at 500yrds...

Third: Training
I would like to learn to run this gun as good as I run my Glock. I watched the Sonny Puzikas videos and well... I want to learn more on how to manipulate the weapon as a firearm. I would like to stay away from the gun fu aspects of training that seems to be the focus of the training information I have come across. Any tips on how to maximize accuracy, speed up sight picture, reload techniques, chambering techniques, and indexing points as well as helpful drills to incorperate such techniques would be greatly appreciated.

Hope this post isn't too long or broad in subject matter...It's my first.

Thanks!

[DANGERTASTIC!]

I have never even heard of an aperature sight for an AK, it wasnt designed for that. I would STRONGLY recommend practicing with teh sights it came with. I have no problem engaging targets out to 100 RAPIDLY. Its pretty impressive what those sights are capable of.

Check this out if you dont like your sights
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=421

As for the getting more proficient....PRACTICE. Did you pick your Glock up and have the skills you do now? I highly doubt it. Practice and experience is what is needed here.

Did you learn anything about your rifle BEFORE you went out and bought it? If you like the peep sight why didnt you go with an AR platform?

I for SURE wouldnt be using an AK to reach out to 500.

What are you wanting this rifle for? Comp? Training? Range toy?

[rustycrusty]

I bought the rifle from a friend after really enjoying the fit and feel of it in my hands as opposed to the ARs I have fired. The most important characteristics of a rifle for my intended use is ability to take abuse, cheap ammo, and reliability.

I like the AR platform, but it does not feel as 'at home' in my hands as the AK does. Also, cost is a major determining factor. I would only have 1/3 of an ar for the cost of my rifle.

I will be putting 500rnd/mo through this rifle for the first months of use and adjustment, so the practice will be there. What i am concerned about is teaching myself bad habits. I had some very well ingrained bad habits that I picked up when I taught myself to shoot pistol- flaws in grip, indexing, reload methods etc. etc. that took twice as long to unlearn. I would really rather not start the wrong way on this one.

i don't intend for the rifle to be a long range gun. I plan to use this rifle at 200m and in- as i know from the previous owner that it will do it. The appleseed course is just a great opportunity for me to learn some good fundamentals in rifle shooting from more experienced shooters. Also, its fun to push the limits, and if i fail, i will be learning while doing so.

If at all possible i would like to avoid optics- defeats the strengths of my intended use- optics are fragile and expensive.


Here is the sight in question.

http://billstclair.com/blog/ak_peep_sight.html

For now I will take the advice and practice with the standard open sights.

[DANGERTASTIC!]

If at all possible i would like to avoid optics- defeats the strengths of my intended use- optics are fragile and expensive.
For now I will take the advice and practice with the standard open sights.


Thats a myth if I have ever heard one.

When you buy walmart or Cheaperthandirt Optics...Ya they suck, dont hold zero and fail.

I have owned Aimpoint and Eotech both. I prefer Aimpoint, It is FAR from "fragile". In fact its quite the opposite.

Youre gonna have to go with some hands on to get good. Try not to stress so much and overthink. Do you have any shooting buddies? Someone who can give you tips?

Im at the range every weekend, youre more than welcome to tag along.

Also, I know the AR platform is a bit more expensive, but worth it. I dont know what kinds of ARs you have shot, but there are literally THOUSANDS of configurations where as the AK youre pretty much stuck with a few set ups. Its all user preference, but dont judge the platform on the few you have tested out

[cfortune]

I have an aperture sight on my Saiga .223 and like it more than the stock irons. Mine is quite a bit different than what you have there. I have a TWS dog leg rail with this on the back:

http://texasweaponsystems.com/id7.html

[SAnd]

I just brazed a washer on the back of my WASR / AK sight where the notch was. The sights are cheap enough that if you don't like it you can replace it back to original.

Before I brazed it I had the washer stuck on with some glue just to see if I liked it.

Aperture sights work a lot better for me.

[rustycrusty]

@DANGERTASTIC- Thanks for the advice on the optics. After my friend does all the leg work involved in setting up to load .556 I may be in the market for an AR. All of the builds I have put together leave me with gun setup for distance. At that point I will definitely be in the market for a quality optic.

For now, I am going to work with the AK. Try to squeeze long range out of a mid range rifle with *almost* no mods (the replacement iron sight being the only added part).

I go shooting with a buddy of mine every weekend, but am always happy to learn new things from others. Let me know where you shoot, and maybe we can have a rifle day.

@SAnd- Amazing idea with the washer. Trying it this weekend. I am a huge fan of the ghetto mods. Thanks!

[BPTactical]

Look at Kalinkaoptics.com
Gennywine Russki optics with the correct side mount for whatever Commbloc rifle you have. Some pretty rugged red dots in there and priced decent.

[zteknik]

Look at Kalinkaoptics.com
Gennywine Russki optics with the correct side mount for whatever Commbloc rifle you have. Some pretty rugged red dots in there and priced decent.
Also another place is http://www.eastwave.ca/products/scopes.html
Some real nice stuff designed for the ak

[mcantar18c]

Surprised you've heard of Sonny.
If you want to learn how to run your AK as well as you do your Glock (and probably a lot of stuff for your Glock that you don't know you don't know), get some training from him. His videos are great, but nothing compares to actual hands on training with an instructor, and he does that pretty damn well... as do the guys he works with.
Here ya go:
http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/kalashnikovriflegunfighting.aspx

[jreifsch80]

An ak 74 is a very accurate rifle but as with any rifle or platform it requires practice to get the most out of it, also don't expect extreem accuracy using surplus ammo (that goes for any rifle and any conventional surplus ammo) I'm sure with hand loaded ammo. I know everyone will say there aren't componants for the 5.45x39 but many guys have had great success resizing .222 remington cases and resizing 5.56 bullets. As for optics I feel that a lot of optics sold here ARE fragile and expensive for what you get and american made optics that are durable are very expensive. Russian optics are both hardy and reasonably priced for what you get. Now here's the but, but for ringing out the highest level of accuracy you do not want your optics mounted to the receiver, ak receivers move and flex even milled ak receivers. For a red dot or other optices being used for close range shooting then the receiver left side rail works alright and maybe better that mounting somthing on the hot gas tube, dog leg rails are pretty solid and a quad rail would help a lot on keeping the heat down for an optic mounted over the gas tube. Another thing to address for accuracy is the fire control group, ak fcg's are designed for one thing, to function reliably. Tapco fcg's and arsenal fcg's are not made any differently that factory ak fcg's they function reliably but that's about it. PolishÍng can be done ¡ut it's like polishing a turd. I would sugest an adjustable fire control group such as a red star arms unit.

Of course the best thing is practice practice practice. I advise to anyone interested in operating an ak platform (especially people with mostly ar experience) to learn the methods used by the russians/com-block if anything to gain a better understanding of the platform. You o
Viously want to do this. I also sugest to get to know the ak platform as it is as in with original sights and everything untill you are familiart and confident with the platform then that will help you decide what you would like to change and modify.

Videos are great especially if you watch and try it then rewind to watch again and do it that will help but like previously stated it is not as good as training with an instructor. There was a soviet method instruction this summer that was advertised on here and from what I hear was very educational and fun as well, keep your eyes out as I wouldn't be surprised if they do another class in the near future.

[jreifsch80]

By the way, if you are ever coming north like pawnee grasslands shoot me a pm and I'd go shooting with you, i'm by no means an expert ak opperator but I know my way around the platform.

[rustycrusty]

Thanks for the invite. Will do! I will be using surplus ammo... it’s the only way I can afford to shoot rifle. As for loading- I load 9mm and barely have enough time to put together the 600rnds/week. I know from speaking to others that rifle loading is a bit more time consuming. Fortunately, the decision on my sights has been made for me- my girlfriend has gifted me the aperture iron replacement for my birthday, and I am picking up a cheap (<$50) com-bloc 4x scope. the good thing is- I have NEVER used an optic, so everything will look amazing to me. I am interested to hear more about the FCG mod. I am pretty set with what I will do to this rifle, but I am curious as to what it is and why/how it improves the system. The trigger has been worked by the previous owner, but just tweaking the original parts. I have no issues with it- but we will see as the rounds go through it.

I am starting to realize that I want this rifle to be bare-bones. I am only purchasing the optic for a rifle class. I want to see what I (operating as shooter, not gunsmith) can squeeze out of the gun.

I heard about the class from a friend attending it. Wish I could have been there, and I will be waiting for another.

[rustycrusty]

Someone had suggested Gabe Suarez' class... VERY hesitant. Seems extremely expensive and I have read quite a few more bad reviews and comments than good ones. Surprises me that a felon can legally teach civilians how to use assault weapons (don't think it matters if the content is there, but seems strange). I see on is site that there is only a defensive pistol course in CO in the near future- I am pleased with my current pistol training regimen-
Again- I've been there and back with the gun-fu- was very into Budo and military mma. It has its place, but whether in systema, krav maga, or modern budo, the place for a gun in a fist/knife fight is limited. The techniques for dealing with someone who has a gun while you are unarmed are also limited and the arts universally use a handful of the same techniques with different emphasis and spin put on them. While it’s fun and educational to know the concepts, some ( a great deal IMO) have been stretched too far.
-- Sorry to go on a tangent but, if I have a firearm pointed at a lesser armed threat and they try to close the gap... BANG BANG... BANG.
argument- 'but you had a malfunction'
counter-and I cleared it because I took the time I spent learning entertaining gun-fu techniques and tripled it at the movement friendly outdoor range .
If I could be promised that a class would focus 99% on things like diagnosing failures and clearing them, fundamentals of accuracy and speed, and time saving habits for presenting a firearm I would be interested. For the other 1%-go crazy on the gun-fu.

[jreifsch80]

There are ways to do a trigger job (more exstensive than just polishing) with the factory style fcg but a clear understand of an ak's fcg is needed so you retain a safe firearm. The red star arms adjustable fcg is a very nice unit and it's pretty reasonable. As far as why mod the fcg? Well the more consistant and clean the pull and break is the more consistant your shooting will be generally.

[Wulf202]

Someone had suggested Gabe Suarez' class... VERY hesitant. Seems extremely expensive and I have read quite a few more bad reviews and comments than good ones. Surprises me that a felon can legally teach civilians how to use assault weapons (don't think it matters if the content is there, but seems strange). I see on is site that there is only a defensive pistol course in CO in the near future- I am pleased with my current pistol training regimen-
Again- I've been there and back with the gun-fu- was very into Budo and military mma. It has its place, but whether in systema, krav maga, or modern budo, the place for a gun in a fist/knife fight is limited. The techniques for dealing with someone who has a gun while you are unarmed are also limited and the arts universally use a handful of the same techniques with different emphasis and spin put on them. While it’s fun and educational to know the concepts, some ( a great deal IMO) have been stretched too far.
-- Sorry to go on a tangent but, if I have a firearm pointed at a lesser armed threat and they try to close the gap... BANG BANG... BANG.
argument- 'but you had a malfunction'
counter-and I cleared it because I took the time I spent learning entertaining gun-fu techniques and tripled it at the movement friendly outdoor range .
If I could be promised that a class would focus 99% on things like diagnosing failures and clearing them, fundamentals of accuracy and speed, and time saving habits for presenting a firearm I would be interested. For the other 1%-go crazy on the gun-fu.

There are plenty of other trainers who aren't as shady and put on a much better class. Until you've been to a good class you won't understand how much you don't know about running a gun.

[20eyes]

I have a peep sight on one of my 74's and it sucks. I'm guna replace it with a stock one, or one of those mi optic mounts as far as training talk to mean street tactical, I took their class a few months ago and it's top notch and very well priced


That's my 2 cents

[rustycrusty]

Looking into that class. Sounds like alot of fun and info. Thanks for the tip. Who makes your peeps? are they rail mounted? cover mounted? stock sight mount?

[mcantar18c]

Someone had suggested Gabe Suarez' class... VERY hesitant. Seems extremely expensive and I have read quite a few more bad reviews and comments than good ones. Surprises me that a felon can legally teach civilians how to use assault weapons (don't think it matters if the content is there, but seems strange). I see on is site that there is only a defensive pistol course in CO in the near future- I am pleased with my current pistol training regimen-
Again- I've been there and back with the gun-fu- was very into Budo and military mma. It has its place, but whether in systema, krav maga, or modern budo, the place for a gun in a fist/knife fight is limited. The techniques for dealing with someone who has a gun while you are unarmed are also limited and the arts universally use a handful of the same techniques with different emphasis and spin put on them. While it’s fun and educational to know the concepts, some ( a great deal IMO) have been stretched too far.
-- Sorry to go on a tangent but, if I have a firearm pointed at a lesser armed threat and they try to close the gap... BANG BANG... BANG.
argument- 'but you had a malfunction'
counter-and I cleared it because I took the time I spent learning entertaining gun-fu techniques and tripled it at the movement friendly outdoor range .
If I could be promised that a class would focus 99&#37; on things like diagnosing failures and clearing them, fundamentals of accuracy and speed, and time saving habits for presenting a firearm I would be interested. For the other 1%-go crazy on the gun-fu.
You should do some actual research and seriously look into things before you write someone off as a criminal (no, Suarez is not a felon). The rumors you seem to have heard were just that. This is the second time I've seen this come up recently, and no offense to you personally but it just shows ignorance.
If you'd like to hear the truth about that crap you're welcome to PM me or just do your own legwork... then form your opinion from there.

[Great-Kazoo]

You should do some actual research and seriously look into things before you write someone off as a criminal (no, Suarez is not a felon). The rumors you seem to have heard were just that. This is the second time I've seen this come up recently, and no offense to you personally but it just shows ignorance.
If you'd like to hear the truth about that crap you're welcome to PM me or just do your own legwork... then form your opinion from there.

Good try. while gabe is decent there are others MORE Qualified for real training. YMMV

I did the leg work and went with John Farnam years ago and never looked back. he goes all over training students doing rifle, shotgun and handgun. Located out of ft fun, but mostly travels
http://defense-training.com/

Ayoob, once you get past his rambling bs is also good.

Larry is good, did a lot of training with him too. He is local in the metro area, a good starter and advanced class.
http://www.ontargetfirearmstraining.com/aboutUs.php

Locally there are numerous CCW Instructors (myself included)who will get you going on your journey, teaching anything from basic, advanced, to force on force without the name recognition of the biggies.


Regarding aperture sights, here is another link.
http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm

Not COAR but a lot of different forums dealing with the AK and varients of.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/b/4_AK_47.html
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/

Don't let jriefsch80 snow you. he is THE AK GEEK.

Up side of the internet is lots of info regarding accessories for the AK. Down side of the internet, well.....................Al Gore did invent it, what does that tell you?

[jreifsch80]

the ak geek huh? lol ironic that i hang out here on an ar board more than even my ak ones but hey, someone need's to propagandize about the Russian holy trinity (ak47, akm, ak74)

back to the topic. There are only a few things that are specific to the ak platform for effecient smooth operation, anything more is just "com-block doctrine" and doesn't exactly make one a "better" ak operator than other methods. any carbine class taught by a good quality instructor will help you with effecient handling. A great start would be a general carbine class and practice with the main ak specifics; mag changes, selector manipulation and charging

[Great-Kazoo]

the ak geek huh? lol ironic that i hang out here on an ar board more than even my ak ones but hey, someone need's to propagandize about the Russian holy trinity (ak47, akm, ak74)

back to the topic. There are only a few things that are specific to the ak platform for effecient smooth operation, anything more is just "com-block doctrine" and doesn't exactly make one a "better" ak operator than other methods. any carbine class taught by a good quality instructor will help you with effecient handling. A great start would be a general carbine class and practice with the main ak specifics; mag changes, selector manipulation and charging


Ok maybe not a geek but you are one of the few shooters who can look at an AK and go, thats a XXX probably built with XXX etc. I wish i knew 1/2 about ar's as you do ak's:)
Yes even basic carbine classes will get most shooters, especially newer ones a leg up handling, sight picture, target acquisition etc. Just like hand gun training, practice, practice, practice.

[jreifsch80]

For what it's worth, according to a friend of mine that is a fomer spetsnaz himself the only "special" ak handling skills they learned in their spetsnaz training was to become as proficiant operating left handed as right handed, though after training he was a PKM gunner so didn't opperate an ak often in combat. My point is while it would be fun and interesting to learn from an actual former spetsnaz there are many good instructors out there regardless of their backrounds so keep an open mine, would you choose an ar class instructor the same way? Only take a class from a guy if he were also a former seal or other sf? Not down talking any instructors or ideas just advising you to keep an open mind

[rustycrusty]

Sounds good. I am beginning to understand that all of the classes hold value. Any recommendations on which instructors offer the most economical/ best bang for buck class?

Also, I was gifted the Krebs custom AK aperture sight and love it! Really its just my personal preference to have an aperture sight, but it sure feels like i can get the rifle aligned faster with the ring than i can with the notch. Didn't have to adjust anything after install- it sits in the gun exactly the same as stock- so no fidgeting needed to adjust zero (as verified by buddy long range shooter and 50-75yd shooting)

[20eyes]

Looking into that class. Sounds like alot of fun and info. Thanks for the tip. Who makes your peeps? are they rail mounted? cover mounted? stock sight mount?

I dont know what brand they are but I will try to find out. They are in the stock location. I have 2 74's one with the peep one with the stock sites. Your more than welcome to try them both out

[mcantar18c]

Peep sights
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/kciakrearpeepsight-fixed.aspx