What's the ultimate 308 rifle set-up?

[SA Friday]

So, if you could set up/purchase a long distance rifle, best set up you could have, what would it be? The only parameters would be: bolt action, 308 win caliber.

Get detailed in your description, and please, support your selection of equipment with detail. For example, why the IA receiver over the Surgen or Templar receivers? Why a Kreiger over a Llija? why a 22" barrel over a 26" barrel?

I know there are a couple of you I'm really interested to hear your opinions on this as you've owned or shot at least one of everything possible.

Ya, this is a fairly open ended discussion, but where's the fun in limitation?

[cysoto]

I must ask... If you are looking into dropping a big wad of cash for either an AI or a custom built stick, why would you choose a .308 Win? Unless you are planning on shooting F/TR, a .260 Rem or a 6.5 Creedmore would seem like a better alternative.

[BigBear]

Seems like "you get what you pay for" is the theme these days. The $3K custom build will out shoot the $1K production build every time. That being said, I know there is major competition among the custom builders and a lot of gimmicks as well.

For me, in my opinion, the ultimate build is the one that you have access to (i.e. able to practice on and practice consistently) and are comfortable shooting. That leaves the door completely open to personal preference. One of your criteria was also the "why's" behind a persons choice... This will be a very subjective thread. But I am alos interested in it as well.

I am by no means a super sniper and can't even afford the equipment I would like to have. However, I do have a cheap (sub $1k) Howa 1500 .308 bolt with a MKII stock and a Leupold 3x9 that lets me shoot a 5 shot, 1 inch group consistently up to 200 at anytime. (I don't have access to any range beyond 200 yards... one day. I am on the waiting list for Frontier though, I heard they are thinking about a 1K range, that would be awesome.)

I do have a friend that has a custom built Tac-Ops Tango and that thing is a dream, definitely on my short list if I ever win the lotto. Had a Leupold 25x, a 2 1/2lb trigger (if I remember correctly), an adjustable stock/cheekpiece/etc on it and he couldn't miss targets if he even pulled on purpose, Ha. Very nice shooter.

[TriggerHappy]

I want an OBR.

[BPTactical]

Jeez SAFriday- you really opened pandoras box with this subject. We have a ton of variables when it comes to the "Ultimate" bolt action 308 thumper. I think what one considers "ultimate" is entirely dependent on the man behind the trigger and the intended use.
The Tac/Sniper guys are going to have their own ideal whereas a silhouette shooter is going to have a different ideal while a benchrest/palma shooter has their ideal. Let's not even throw in the hunters here either.
I don't really think there is an ideal "Ultimate" BA 308.

Let's pick one area of the long range game and then shoot for an "Ultimate" rifle.

[SA Friday]

Ok, let's stay in the tactical configuration for this thread.

I picked 308 because its the standard for this type of stick, and it avoids another caliber debate.

[jarhead]

My choice would definatley be the accuracy international.

[Graves]

Off the shelf - Surgeon, Sako, or AI.

[SA Friday]

Uh... Ok, why?

[Hoser]

The main reason to pick an AI type receiver is a rock solid reliable trigger assembly and user end barrel changing. Other than that, the AI is pretty much just a flat bottom action that takes mags. AI rifles are heavy which can be a pretty big downside.

I shot a T2K for many years and it is an amazing rifle, but can be a bit too delicate to drag around a dusty and ugly range. For High Power you wont find a better bolt-gun.

If I was going to build a new rifle it would use either a Bighorn Action or a Badger AI clone action.

If I was going to buy an off the shelf rifle, it would be an AIAW/X or something from GAP or Surgeon.

Gas guns like AR-10/SR-25/OBR are good, but harder to shoot well. My OBR is getting a 260 barrel right now so time will tell. I will be a newbie at long range with a semi.

Barrels are pretty much just two flavors. Button rifled and cut rifled. I have used both and have had good luck with both. Right now I am using Lilja and Brux.

For stocks I like Manners for a fiberglass and AI for a chassis.

For scopes Nightforce and S&B are the way to go.

Harris bi-pods or the norm, but the Atlas is very good and better in many ways, price not being one of them.

[Graves]

Uh... Ok, why?

Sorry man, the wife and I are on vaca. we've had a nice busy week and she's in class all night and I'm feelin' lazy as hell right now lol. Hoser pointed out some reasons to go that way. If you're not willing to do the footwork involved in a full house custom build, they're a great way to go as they boast many of the features from an all out custom (DBM's, solid action/trigger/stocks, top shelf barrels, integral rails, etc.). Right now I have a M700p with a few mods (300wm - Badger dbm/20moa rail/bolt knob, Jewell trigger) but it still sits in the HS stock which I feel is adequate for my needs until I can get some more cash together...and learn to shoot better. I've had the pleasure to try out and own some higher end stuff - Surgeon, AI, and Sako have have left a very good impression on me, I feel that there's an exceptional value with these mfgs. especially if you've seen the tag on a Lazzeroni or things of the like. Nuts!

[spyder]

I choose my 20" 308 POF the wife just bought me! Ya I know it's not a bolt gun, but it's bad ass!
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/251644000/251644003/pix708815983.jpg

[banks74]

Hoser mentioned the reasons why an AI is at the top of my list as well. Second in line is a DTA SRS. The more I shoot my DTA the more I like it. The ability to run several calibers with one scope is definitely an awesome feature. Now I can shoot .308 to .338lap with only paying for one Smitty.

For a custom build I would go with a Big Horn or Surgeon action. Manners stock (with flushcups) although I like McMillan as well. A Bartlein, Krieger or other quality barrel. (I have not had one shoot any better than the others. Only had Kreiger, Bartlein, and Obermeyer. So can't comment on the others)

Trigger would be old style remmy or 40x tuned to perfection.

Glass would be an S&B with a P4f.

Bipod would be an V8 or a Harris. On AI it would be a PH.

[smchop]

For me my keeper in the .308 is my AI AE. It is the covert with a 16" barrel but has a nice suppressor that goes with it. Even at 16" its a 1000yd gun. Action is smooth as butter, weight is a consideration but is relative. I have a .300 win mag that is 15lbs with out the glass! I like the user adjustable triggers, and unlike many shooters I like two stage triggers ( go ahead and flame me now for it ) but you take take that out also. If I didn't go with the covert I still would have picked up an AI probably 20-22" As Hoser mentioned for a chassis system it is top notch. One thing on them though is the comb is a little high, if you like high comb its good if not its a bitch to keep it low and keep the glass as low to the barrel as possible. I'm also a big USO fan, just love the EREK knobs and how smooth they are.

[SA Friday]

Ok, I'm trackin.

So let me throw this out there as a follow up question. What are the drawbacks of the McMillan stocks? I don't have enough hours on either the Manners or McM's to know why most prefer the Manners.

[smchop]

I have both, and like both. If I recall Hoser had a few complaints previous I believe, Hoser correct me if I'm wrong. But I've seen alot more manners being ordered or requested. I believe they (McMillan) may have burned a couple of the wrong bridges, but I don't know the politics of it. I have a manners mcs-t on a .308 that I love, but I also have a McMillan A4 that I love also. I have had no quaility issues with either and they boil down to pretty much having the same stocks as each other, although mcmillan may have a few more options on fill and what not but I havent looked in awhile. I would not hesitate to buy either if you like the way they feel. FWIW.

[Hoser]

What are the drawbacks of the McMillan stocks?

Kelly McMillan.

[jmg8550]

I really don't think you can go wrong with a Savage model 10 to start out with. Very accurate out of the box. And a nice bang for the buck package.

Currently, I run a Burris XTR 3X12. It has been a very good scope. I have well over 1500 rounds with no scope malfunctions.

[Robert217]

Styer jeff Cooper scout IMHO

[T-Jet]

Holy Smokes - talk about no parameters to fence me in ! Yeehaa!

I'd have start with it depends on the application:

Tactical:
Never owned an AI but guys love 'em
GA Precision makes nice rigs that always shoot well
My preference is Mark Chanlynn at BigHorn Arms using his custom action (tell him what you application is and what bullet you want to shoot and he'll match you up with what would work well.)

[omega1]

Since no one else has brought it up......Sako TRG-22. And it is available in .260 from the factory now.

[oinco]

I would/(will?) use either a Bighorn, Surgeon or Badger receiver single shot setup, using a Brux or Obermeyer barrel, non fluted MTU or AMU profile at least 28" if not 30" at 1:10 twist, throated for Berger 215gr hybrids. Trigger- for me a Shilen or Timney. Stock would be what fit- probably a Manners T4A or AI AX- and most importantly all put together more than correctly by the right LR gunsmith.

The choices above would be for receiver stiffness, proven cut-rifled barrel, long enough barrel to get max speed out of the slower powders and longer bullets for a few more yards of supersonic flight. If possible-I think the TBAC brake/suppressor combo would be an ideal setup too.
It seems to me that the selection of receivers would be qualified by need of a repeater and the actions' appropriateness to the intended COAL and reliable feeding, the need for multiple re-barreling, and to me- availability.

There are a sea of really nice rifles(all with acronyms?) out there- AI, TRG, PGW, KMW, Surgeon etc. -but one correctly built to fit me vs the shelf is better.

[islandermyk]

I choose my 20" 308 POF the wife just bought me! Ya I know it's not a bolt gun, but it's bad ass!
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/251644000/251644003/pix708815983.jpg

I'm a semi-auto guy myself. Like the idea of rapid engagements... Just load a full mag, charge it, and squeeze squeeze squeeze [Coffee] I'm pretty confident it can hit that 1000 yard, but I haven't pushed it over 600 yet. Hate the long walks[ROFL1]

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/2011-08-13184929.jpg

But if I had a chance to get or build a .308 bolt rifle... I would like to start off from a REM700 26" BBL with either a McMillan stock or AI stock and parts, and spend the big buck$ on a really nice glass (SB, NF, US, Leupold, Zeiss, etc...) and scope mounts.

[mcantar18c]

Here's a friend's input on this. Built as a "Guerilla Sniper Rifle," the idea being he wanted something quick and easy to work, small enough to conceal if needed, accurate enough for 200/600 work (as a minimum requirement, this reaches out a good bit further than that).
Total cost was around $850, total weight about 12lbs.


The Action: It started out as a Savage model 110 and was $130 from a pawnshop several years ago. It was chambered in 30-06 with a 24” factory contoured barrel. It was about a 1.5-2 MOA stick with hand loads for about the first 3 rounds. Then it heated up, got fouled, and opened up to 3 MOA.

The Stock: I chose the Choate Ultimate Sniper stock, overall I like this stock and for the money $60 on ebay, it’s pretty good. The best thing that I can say about it is that this stock is tough and tight with the aluminum bedding blocks. The worst thing that I can say about it is that it is on the heavy side, but again if you are a meat eating, kettle bell swinging, man with calluses on your hands it’s less of an issue than many make out of it. Most of the design features I have found to be very functional. Although assuming the “Hawkins” position can be rather challenging.

Glass: The scope I have selected is a Nikon 3-9x40 with their BDC reticle $210. The Nikon BDC has a graduated set of circles as aiming points for hold over from 100-600 yards, much like the Burris Ballistic-Plex reticle.On the subject of comparing the two optics, my evaluation found that both had about the same good quality of light gathering and clarity. Both were about the same size and weight. And the reticles are graduated close to the same with the Nikon having circles and the Burris having hash marks as aiming points. Truth be told I actually liked the Burris hash marks over the Nikon circles at first due to the ability to more precisely place them on the point of aim. In the end for me the deciding factor was in the adjustments. The Burris has standard ¼ “ adjustment knobs, while the Nikon has actual ¼ MOA “low profile” target turrets, allowing the user to dial their DOPE for more precise shots and shots beyond the range of the BDC. One thing I could not find was the actual dimensions of the Nikon BDC so I had to put a 1” grid at 100 yds and measure all of its dimensions. And from those measurements have worked out and easy formula to range with it. And of course I added a set of flip up Lens Covers (inside the eye cap I have a small ballistics card)

Mounts and Rings: I mounted the scope as close as possible to the bore with Leopold Rifleman two piece bases $7 and their matching Medium height rings $10. I plan to replace with a one piece integral setup by DedNutz very soon.

The Barrel: Someone properly said that the barrel is the heart of the rifle. No other single component (other than the shooter) is more important to the accuracy of a rifle than the barrel. For that reason I spent the money $350. I had my rifle smith install a handy length 18” Shilen #7 contour “Match” barrel 1-10 twist, chamber it in .308 and install a Smith Industries Vortex flash suppressor $75, he also made a thread protector for the muzzle when not wearing the Vortex. Gabe stated it pretty well in reference to the AK system “All fighting rifles should have a flash suppressor” and I couldn’t agree more. And as flash suppression devices go the Vortex is amazing, it completely eliminates muzzle flash in lowlight and greatly reduces the ground blast as well as protects the muzzle crown from damage that can happen in the environment that a sniper rifle lives. I know opinions are very wide as to weather a sniper rifle should have a barrel less than 20 inches. So I did A LOT of research on the subject. And it is true that you do lose some velocity with a shorter barrel but I found that with a .308 you don’t lose too much until you get around 16” and a lot of that is ammunition dependant. So I weighed the pros and cons of both longer and shorter barrels, and for me opted for the shorter handier tube. With hand loads I am still getting 2600 fps out of it.

Extras: I then finished (painted) the rifle with my favorite weapon finish Krylon, cause it is cheap, durable enough, and easy to change with my environment. I have a pair of Harris 6”-9” bipod mounted on the stock’s accessory rail but, prefer to shoot off my pack most of the time. And because all rifles should have slings I like the V-tac sling for both carry and shooting support.

Personally, I'd have gone with a different stock and NF glass, but this does its job pretty damn well.

http://www.warriortalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6842&stc=1&d=1243181840

[smchop]

"throated for Berger 230gr hybrids" on a .308? I would be interested in how that would shoot. Man that is a heavy bullet. I don't know anyone shooting them so its an honest statement, I would like to know. Would probably end up being a sling shot rifle right?

[oinco]

smchop,

sorry- i corrected post- meant 215gr (.696 g1 BC!) hybrids but just ordered some 230gr for my RUM- so had it on the brain. there are at least a few who have tried the 230 in the 308 with success using R17. ( I remember 2250-ish fps out of a 20"?! barrel??) Case capacity of course would be somewhat like having a new sportscar with a xxmph governor.
You could make it a repeater with the correct mag/bottom metal, I am running a 2.9"+ coal with 208gr amax out of my AI mags now. Depending on the action- you may have to modify the feedramp.