View Full Version : New 10/22 Akins Accelerator Stock
MPfiveengineer
10-09-2006, 18:36
A few of you guys at the silencer shoot have seen my 10/22 bump fire device ( www.firefaster.com ) . My main two complaints are that the stock they make for it is garbage and my integrally suppressed 10/22 barrel is a little too heavy for it to function reliably.
I came up with a solution for both problems, SBR the 10/22 and make a new stock for it. The 10/22 SBR'd with a 4-inch barrel will shoot regular ammo at subsonic speeds and remain light enough with a muzzle mounted suppressor to work with the device. Also with the new stock I should be able to take the red dot sight off the action so it does not move with it. With a new stock I can also beef-up the mount for the Akins device. So here is what I have designed so far. I originally planed on making one of these for myself but my post on silencertests.com has gotten enough interest that we may make more than one. I am going to make the first one in the SLS machine at work probably some time next week. Do you guys have any input for changes to the stock?
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/mpfiveengineer/10228.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/mpfiveengineer/10226.jpg
2ndChildhood
10-09-2006, 20:50
Looks good! nice renderings!
samuraii
10-10-2006, 09:15
After shooting your AA at the silencer shoot I really liked it and almost bought one myself. I just couldn't see spending that much on a stock that (besides the acceleration) I didn't really like. Now, your design makes it look a lot better. So I would be very interested in seeing how the final design turns out. Also interested in it for a non accelerated 10/22.
Now if I could only get the firefaster guy to sell just the accelerator part and not the stock. ;)
As far as suggestions, I think the thread at ST.com pretty much covered a lot of the concerns.
Any Idea on how much it will cost to produce each one?
[pirate]
Make the rail a tad bit lower so you can get a decent cheek weld.
You gonna machine it from aluminum or plastic?
MPfiveengineer
10-10-2006, 19:09
Make the rail a tad bit lower so you can get a decent cheek weld.
You gonna machine it from aluminum or plastic?
There is no machining, the first one will be built in an SLS machine ( http://www.nuigalway.ie/rp/SLS%20Process.htm ). It is going to be made of DuraForm GF, similar to glass-filled nylon.
PsychoI3oy
10-11-2006, 11:35
Low carb rifle stocks?
Oh, Akins, not Atkins.
Carry on, it looks spiffy.
there is an excellent in the november issue of small arms review (SAR). It shows you how it works and stuff.
I noticed they started advertising in there as well...
And I saw the Dragon man shoot DVD being advertised in there too!
Still contemplating on getting an akins my self. 900 to 1200 for about 600 rpm is not bad, and no $200 transfer fee.
MPfiveengineer
10-27-2006, 21:49
I made it. It needs some paint and SBR paperwork to be complete but I am happy with it. :mrgreen:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/mpfiveengineer/117_1737.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/mpfiveengineer/117_1734.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m86/mpfiveengineer/117_1735.jpg
that turned out pretty cool
2ndChildhood
10-27-2006, 22:15
Cool!
That white color looks almost ghost-like.
MPfiveengineer
10-27-2006, 22:28
I figured I would cammo it for this week’s weather [pirate2] . Next week it will be black.
Dude that is really sweet! paint the mag and barrel white and you got yourself a snow rifle! LOL
Anyways if we could convince him to sell the accelerator by it's self i would totally be the first to line up for your stock!!! Nice job... That thing looks like a baby G36!
I made it.
So whats the cost going to be for COAR-15.com members going to be?
I made it.
So whats the cost going to be for COAR-15.com members going to be?
Ditto. I've got to get one so I can figure it out. Thanks for letting me attempt to shoot. it.
roman gnome
10-29-2006, 09:01
Kick ass! :twisted:
Did you use the internals from the original stock, or did you create new ones?
Really nice work.
MPfiveengineer
10-29-2006, 09:38
I used the original internals. Sorry guys but a lot has to happen before I can give you pricing.
2ndChildhood
10-29-2006, 09:42
I used the original internals. Sorry guys but a lot has to happen before I can give you pricing.
I know you need a mechanical engineer to help with testing, so just let me know when you're ready to go to the next prototype.
I should have a10/22 by then. :mrgreen:
MPfiveengineer
12-11-2006, 19:44
This is going to be intresting to see how this plays out. I may be out $1200 :roll: or if they grandfather these it may be worth some real $ now. From www.firefaster.com
Akins Group Inc. regrets to announce that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has reversed its position and has decided the Akins Accelerator™ to be a machinegun conversion kit, thereby subjecting it to strict regulation under the Gun Control Act (GCA) and National Firearms Act (NFA).
ATF rescinded its previous determination that the Akins Accelerator™ was not subject to the GCA or NFA (see http://www.firefaster.com/documentation.html). Attorneys for the Akins Group Inc. are seeking reconsideration by ATF of its new position. In the interim, any sale, transfer, or return of the Akins Accelerator™ must be suspended. Akins Group Inc. will advise further after meeting with ATF.
Akins Group Inc. has received no instruction as to the disposition of units in customer hands. Please refrain from public speculation and emotional responses and allow our Attorneys to advocate for everyone's best interests.
michael_aos
12-11-2006, 20:36
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
ATF DECIDES THE AKINS ACCELERATOR™ TO BE A MACHINEGUN
Akins Group Inc. regrets to announce that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has reversed its position and has decided the Akins Accelerator™ to be a machinegun conversion kit, thereby subjecting it to strict regulation under the Gun Control Act (GCA) and National Firearms Act (NFA).
ATF rescinded its previous determination that the Akins Accelerator™ was not subject to the GCA or NFA (see http://www.firefaster.com/documentation.html). Attorneys for the Akins Group Inc. are seeking reconsideration by ATF of its new position. In the interim, any sale, transfer, or return of the Akins Accelerator™ must be suspended. Akins Group Inc. will advise further after meeting with ATF.
Akins Group Inc. has received no instruction as to the disposition of units in customer hands. Please refrain from public speculation and emotional responses and allow our Attorneys to advocate for everyone's best interests.
MPfiveengineer
12-11-2006, 20:42
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
ATF DECIDES THE AKINS ACCELERATOR™ TO BE A MACHINEGUN
Akins Group Inc. regrets to announce that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has reversed its position and has decided the Akins Accelerator™ to be a machinegun conversion kit, thereby subjecting it to strict regulation under the Gun Control Act (GCA) and National Firearms Act (NFA).
ATF rescinded its previous determination that the Akins Accelerator™ was not subject to the GCA or NFA (see http://www.firefaster.com/documentation.html). Attorneys for the Akins Group Inc. are seeking reconsideration by ATF of its new position. In the interim, any sale, transfer, or return of the Akins Accelerator™ must be suspended. Akins Group Inc. will advise further after meeting with ATF.
Akins Group Inc. has received no instruction as to the disposition of units in customer hands. Please refrain from public speculation and emotional responses and allow our Attorneys to advocate for everyone's best interests.
Why would you repeat the post directly above yours without adding to it?
michael_aos
12-11-2006, 20:44
Why would you repeat the post directly above yours without adding to it?
I swear that wasn't there...
Mike
HunterCO
12-11-2006, 22:02
This must be a joke I never seen this coming. :roll:
Told ya Ken now if they grandfather the ones already shipped which is what I suspect will happen your $1200 atkins just trippled in price. [wink]
Once again BATFE flip flops more than a fish out of water. :evil:
roman gnome
12-11-2006, 22:47
That's just wrong.Hope it works out for the best for you.
2ndChildhood
12-12-2006, 08:06
That sucks! Hopefully the batfe ends up with egg on their face for this.
Now will this be a way for them to make all semi auto weapons illegal since it is possible to bump fire them?
MuzzleFlash
12-13-2006, 11:11
Pending litigation outcomes to the contrary, the ATF will treat the AA stocks the same as they did the improperly demilled Interordinance parts kits.
Neither the AA stock or the parts kits have a serial number, both have been declared to be MGs under a technical interpretation of the law, both have had conflicting FTB determinations made where the line has been moved all over the place. The FTB is out of control and is clearly politicized now that Gonzales took over for Ashcroft as the AG.
In the case of the improperly demilled parts kits, agents fanned out and confiscated the "offending" receivers. You can expect a letter or worse, a knock on the door. If you say "sorry, sold it to a guy at the range", expect to be raided because that is what the new JBT culture at the DOJ is all about. This is what our country has come to.
thats why i dont plan on retiring here ;)
Where ever i go it'll be some place where i can get BNIB MG's for next to nothin :)
MPfiveengineer
12-14-2006, 12:02
Pending litigation outcomes to the contrary, the ATF will treat the AA stocks the same as they did the improperly demilled Interordinance parts kits.
Neither the AA stock or the parts kits have a serial number, both have been declared to be MGs under a technical interpretation of the law, both have had conflicting FTB determinations made where the line has been moved all over the place. The FTB is out of control and is clearly politicized now that Gonzales took over for Ashcroft as the AG.
In the case of the improperly demilled parts kits, agents fanned out and confiscated the "offending" receivers. You can expect a letter or worse, a knock on the door. If you say "sorry, sold it to a guy at the range", expect to be raided because that is what the new JBT culture at the DOJ is all about. This is what our country has come to.
Unfortunately I think Muzzleflash may be right. I was advised by a friend in the firearms industry after the ATF's determining it was a machine gun to remove my 10/22 from the stock and store them separately until something is decided. If it is decided that I have to hand over the stock to the ATF then that is what I am going to do. Several people have recommended to me that I "loose it" but to me it is not worth the risk.
roman gnome
12-14-2006, 20:58
Smart move MP5, don't think they would buy the boatin' accident thingy!
I hope they let you keep it as-is though.
HunterCO
12-14-2006, 21:42
Trying to tell BATFE you sold it or lost it when you have not even had it a year is not going to fly. Not to mention if you get caught with it say goodnight to ever owning a gun again.
Muzzleflash may very well be right but like I said before BATFE has grandfathered stuff before look at the open bolt guns like macs and kg9's. They ruled they are a MG because they are "readily convertible to F/A".
Like I told you when you wanted to buy it.......It's a gamble I had a very bad feeling they would pull this crap. I would not panic and take the gun apart until the ruling is complete shoot it up while you can. Not to mention that would be silly anyway as in you own the stock and the 10/22 don't make a damn bit of difference if it is assembled or not.
If it comes to the point they say turn them in guys then just do it until then shoot it.
MPfiveengineer
12-15-2006, 00:17
Maybe I will show up with it at the 12/16 North Shoot. Anyone who wants to try it should bring .22lr because it goes FAST. :twisted:
I knew it was a risk when I bought it and I am not going to wine about it now.
MuzzleFlash
12-16-2006, 01:46
I hold out little hope for the good guys in this situation.
It appears that BATF is about to move the line on what constitutes an operational MG. It used to be more than one shot per single actuation of the trigger. Call this the trigger-centric definition. Clearly that definition doesn't include the Akins.
I expect them to redefine what a single actuation of the trigger is. They will probably require that each actuation be human initiated predominately through human supplied force. This is the human-centric definition.
The Akins fails the new human-centric test. So does any system where the operator simply holds their trigger finger in place and the energy from the fired round does all the work. If my theory is correct, this also spells doom for the hellfire kits. Those have been more or less a novelty because they require a modicum of skill to reliably master. Let's hope the FTB doesn't try a more aggressive redefinition that includes crank fire kits.
Before the redefinition, the Akins wasn't a gun and would therefore be untraceable. It works reliably enough with a lightened trigger and doesn't require much practice and shooter skill. In other words, it is something homeboy can buy and use. The realization that follow-on products using the same principle could be sold for guns like the Mini-14 and SKS must have had the powers that be crapping their panties.
Bowers has put out the word that they are proposing a system to return the kits in a way that avoids home visits by agents. It is yet to be seen if the ATF will accept it.
These Akins "kits" will not be grandfathered. It's all about the 86 ban. The Strikers and Street Sweepers are a poor precedent since the 86 makings ban never applied to DD's. The open bolt SA MACs and KG99 redefinitions predated the 86 ban. Besides, all of these guns had the required maker markings and serial numbers. I don't know why they didn't require registration of the SA Macs and KG99's. If they are MGs then the owners should be able to use them as such.
The only issues remaining are how the BATF will collect the Akins and if anyone will be compensated for their loss. Remember the US government can freely admit a "screw-up" and not be held liable under sovereign immunity. Little consolation, but maybe people can keep the BC stock and just surrender the accelerator.
If I'm wrong, I will be a happy man and glad for the guys that have the accellerators. Sadly, I don't have much hope left in the courts to do the right thing.
It was supposed to be america the "free" right?
:roll:
Freedom is a myth, it doesnt exist, at least not where i'm standing.
MPfiveengineer
12-16-2006, 09:54
Little consolation, but maybe people can keep the BC stock and just surrender the accelerator.
If I'm wrong, I will be a happy man and glad for the guys that have the accellerators. Sadly, I don't have much hope left in the courts to do the right thing.
Without the accelerator the stock is worthless.
If I do end up having to surrender it I wonder if I can give it to an SOT so at lest they could register it as a post sample and play with it.
MPfiveengineer
01-10-2007, 00:03
This is unbelieveable. :roll:
http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/revrule/rules/2006-2_q_and_a.pdf
When I first saw the Akins I though it was somewhat questionable since the law is usually dictated by intent. However Akins claim “BATFE Approved” and Tom Bowers name made one think that they had did their homework and the ATF was going to let this fly.
Returning the spring and holding on to the Akins seems like a really bad idea. Many gun owners have extra recoil springs lying around and it seems like if the ATF decided to come after you it would be rather easy. It would be kind of like having both an AR15 and a pre-81 DIAS.
Now that the reversal requires Akins models to be rendered useless I wonder if the Akins Group will be offering any kind of refunds. I would really like to study the official opinion for the discrepancy in legal status between the models that were sold and the sample submitted and wonder if Akins owners will have any legal recourse due to these discrepancies.
BTW, the ATF's form looks like it was drafted by an 8th grader.
roman gnome
01-10-2007, 00:10
What a shame, I hope the Akins Group tries to make it up to you somehow.
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